The great escape
Stephon Marbury has been hinting around for a year or so that it would be him, an NBA All-Star, to flee to Europe because it pays better than the NBA. But Marbury no longer is a star, assuming he ever really was. Perhaps Allen Iverson, who is a star, arguably one of the most popular NBA players in the world. After his contract expires at the end of next season at age 34, is he going to be offered anywhere near the $20.8 million he’ll make in 2008-09? Not likely.
So how do you say, “Bubba Chuck” in Russian?
“Ultimately, someone big is going to (leave the NBA for) Europe,” predicts attorney Herb Rudoy, perhaps the premier European representative among NBA agents along with partner Luciano Capicchioni. “I think one NBA player in the next couple of years will get a significant offer and go. There are maybe a dozen teams with big money now. Someone will go.”
No, not Josh Childress, who is said to be going to Greece in a $20 million/three year deal. Not Carlos Delfino or Jorge Garbajosa, taking European deals after playing with some success in the NBA. It’s not like there’s some raid of talent reminiscent of the old ABA-NBA battles of the 1970’s.
But with the decline in the value of the U.S. dollar and some hints of a recession even feeling its way around the NBA in the form of more teams cutting back big spending or declining to use their salary cap exceptions to avoid paying the luxury tax, NBA players are beginning to take a serious look at playing in Europe as a legitimate alternative.
Mostly it’s European players, who are finding the NBA not as hospitable and welcoming as they’d hoped and who enjoy substantial income tax advantages that Americans don’t when they play in Europe.
Viktor Khryapa left the Chicago Bulls for Russia, Juan Carlos Navarro couldn’t wait to leave the Memphis Grizzlies (no surprise there) and New Jersey Nets players Bostjan Nachbar and Nenad Krstic are said to considering joining the likes of Garbajosa and Delfino in an NBA exodus.
The reason is money, and it’s manifesting itself in various forms.
Forget the bosa nova. Blame it on the euro.
One factor is the U.S. is at or near recession – with the euro growing more valuable in comparison, making it more lucrative in earnings than the dollar.
More so has been an economic explosion in European sports with money pouring in from a variety of sources. There is no European league like the NBA, so teams used to be run like operations for civic pride and responsibility. Now, in addition to rich owners buying teams in several places, they are being run more like businesses with substantial naming rights deals, signage and advertising.
The result is perhaps a dozen teams with budgets to compete with NBA teams, the main ones in Russia, Greece, Spain and Italy.
It once was that American star players, still limited to a pair per team, came at the end of their careers, like Bob McAdoo or Dominique Wilkins or because of problems in the NBA, like Micheal Ray Richardson and Roy Tarpley.
Rookie Danny Ferry bolted the Clippers in 1989 to force a trade, but that was rare.
But now Rudoy says his client, Tiago Splitter, a first-round draft pick of the Spurs, wanted to come to the NBA but could not afford to turn down his European offer.
“Splitter was 100 percent committed,” said Rudoy. “He wanted to come. But his team made him an offer (equal to $5 million annually) that he couldn’t say no to. All his intentions were to come to the NBA. So I also think you may see NBA teams not taking European players in the middle or late in the first round (with guaranteed salaries less than $2 million annually).”
Of course, it’s not like the NBA is about to lose its best talent.
There are risks leaving the U.S., terrorism aside. American players tend not to be the most adaptable people to different cultures, and all have heard horror stories of players not being paid or dumped after a bad game. And try collecting in Moscow. FIBA doesn’t exactly stand behind players to guarantee salaries like the NBA does.
And, especially with top players, European teams cannot compete with the large second contracts many NBA players can get after their rookie deals.
But Europe is now starting to see billionaire owners who might like an ego player or two. And the NBA isn’t exactly in boom times. Restricted free agents, like Childress, have trouble getting offers and so few teams are below the salary cap. Many more are close to the luxury tax and refusing to spend anywhere close. Previous wild spenders like the New York Knicks and Dallas Mavericks are cutting back. The Denver Nuggets, another big luxury tax payer, recently have Marcus Camby, arguably the league’s top defensive player, to the Clippers for, effectively, nothing to save money. Free agents like the Bulls’ Ben Gordon and Luol Deng are getting no offers.
There’s also been rumors that even teams like the champion Boston Celtics are not offering their rookies the full scale (teams can pay 80 to 120 percent) in some additional cost cutting moves more and more teams are employing.
It’s not exactly a trickle down from the subprime financial crisis. But some NBA players, other than the top stars, are starting to feel the financial pinch as well.
And maybe soon for some top NBA player or players a trip to Venice won’t automatically mean an afternoon at the quirky Los Angeles beach community.
Nicholas Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 9:34 am
While I understand that NBA players want to be paid handsomely I highly doubt the economy has anything to do with teams not offering their money for talent. Its something called a cap and a luxury tax. Teams have learned not to overpay and thats what players are feeling now. Few players today are getting overpaid. Nene (kenyon martin doesnt count because of his injuries, he will get better), most of the Knicks team, Mark blount, most of the Bucks team save Bogut and players with less than 4 years experience, Larry Hughes, and the list goes on. Teams just dont want to pay the luxury tax or if the team isnt profitable like the Sonics claim they were and the Grizzlies then they dont spend the money or they spend it carefully on players that bring in ticket sales. This is a business and its run as one.
Its highly unlikely to me that the cost of gas and groceries going up will effect a player in the top 10% earners of the world. Paying for gas and groceries to them is like paying for a candy bar, its pocket change. So yes the Europe teams can offer more but dont blame it on the economy, blame it on the rookie contracts for european players. The CBA should be restructured so that european players could join the NBA without being drafted and be paid on a 2 year contract up to the midlevel depending on their experience in other leagues.
Smith Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 10:49 am
Nicholas … you are a khair!
Yelito Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 10:59 am
People must understand that European Clubs are closing the gap money wise and quality wise. The only thing that those leagues lacks are player recognition and egos. In every NBA team are at least 5 overpaid player, 1 headcase and a player paid as a franchise type player, but is not the go-to guy. Guys like Marbury, Marion, AK 47, Lewis just to mention a few, getting paid max contracts or close to are killing the NBA. Okafor rejecting a $12M per year deal? what a joke.
norm Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 11:09 am
All the players that have been signed away, so far, to Europe are international players, and most were born in Europe, playing in europe gives them a chance not only to make more money but it gets them closser to thier home contry and culture. But i doubt that american born palyers, with legitiamete NBA futures, are going to go over to europe, just for more money. the only reason why childress is thinking about going to greece is becouse it’s the only offer that the hawks can’t match, and keep him in atlanta.
George J Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 11:27 am
This article reads like a a knee jerk reaction to a situation and an attempt to make it bigger than it is. Yes, people with mediocre talant who could not play at the NBa level are leaving for Europe. Some of these guys should’ve never come here in the first place. The talent gap is riiculous between the Euro Leagues and the NBA. Let me remind you that Mo Evans and Sarunas Jasiikevichvic are former Euro league MVPs. Enough said. Some players will end up going for the money of course because it’s high time the NBa stop over-paying for mediocrity.Josh Childress? Ha! He should go to Euro league. He can’t even crack the starting line-up on a crappy team like the Hawks. IN EU he’ll be a superstar with little competition. But he’ll be a star in the minors. I have some serious doubts that a major US basketball star in his prime would jump to EU any time soon.
Rashidi Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 12:00 pm
“While I understand that NBA players want to be paid handsomely I highly doubt the economy has anything to do with teams not offering their money for talent.”
Oh right, because the economy has nothing to do with team owners, aka business owners.
“Teams have learned not to overpay and thats what players are feeling now. Few players today are getting overpaid.”
Teams haven’t learned anything, they still make their share of player evaluation mistakes in free agency. The difference is fewer marquee players even make it to free agency, as most of them get locked up by their teams before they even get to that point. There is no salary cap space because teams are using it up before they can even use it.
It should also be noted that this is exactly what Stern and the owners wanted in the last Collective Bargaining Agreement.
The only thing that has backfired is Europe has become a more attractive place to play, and mid-level free agents have no problem getting more money outside of the league, and become unrestricted free agents once they are negotiation with a non-NBA team.
“This is a business and its run as one.”
And the owners aren’t taking the economy into account when they make these decisions? Okay.
Its highly unlikely to me that the cost of gas and groceries going up will effect a player in the top 10% earners of the world. Paying for gas and groceries to them is like paying for a candy bar, its pocket change. So yes the Europe teams can offer more but dont blame it on the economy, blame it on the rookie contracts for european players.
“The CBA should be restructured so that european players could join the NBA without being drafted and be paid on a 2 year contract up to the midlevel depending on their experience in other leagues.”
Uh, they already have that. The Knicks signed Maciej Lampe to a deal like that. And what you’re saying is ultimately hypocritical because it completely denounces the NCAA. If you’re gonna do that, I’d rather just play in Europe rather than NCAA to get myself a bigger payday once I hit the legal age. If you do that, you’re just giving more power to the European leagues and you’d probably deplete the American talent pool (good job).
Rashidi Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 12:02 pm
“While I understand that NBA players want to be paid handsomely I highly doubt the economy has anything to do with teams not offering their money for talent.”
Oh right, because the economy has nothing to do with team owners, aka business owners.
“Teams have learned not to overpay and thats what players are feeling now. Few players today are getting overpaid.”
Teams haven’t learned anything, they still make their share of player evaluation mistakes in free agency. The difference is fewer marquee players even make it to free agency, as most of them get locked up by their teams before they even get to that point. There is no salary cap space because teams are using it up before they can even use it.
It should also be noted that this is exactly what Stern and the owners wanted in the last Collective Bargaining Agreement.
The only thing that has backfired is Europe has become a more attractive place to play, and mid-level free agents have no problem getting more money outside of the league, and become unrestricted free agents once they are negotiation with a non-NBA team.
“This is a business and its run as one.”
And the owners aren’t taking the economy into account when they make these decisions? Okay.
Its highly unlikely to me that the cost of gas and groceries going up will effect a player in the top 10% earners of the world. Paying for gas and groceries to them is like paying for a candy bar, its pocket change. So yes the Europe teams can offer more but dont blame it on the economy, blame it on the rookie contracts for european players.
“The CBA should be restructured so that european players could join the NBA without being drafted and be paid on a 2 year contract up to the midlevel depending on their experience in other leagues.”
Uh, they already have that. The Knicks signed Maciej Lampe to a deal like that. And what you’re saying is ultimately hypocritical because it completely denounces the NCAA. If you’re gonna do that, I’d rather just play in Europe rather than NCAA to get myself a bigger payday once I hit the legal age. If you do that, you’re just giving more power to the European leagues and you’d probably deplete the American talent pool (good job!).
Jordan Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 12:36 pm
The problem is the “restricted free-agents”.
If Childress was not “restricted” he would of been signed already.
josef cavalier Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 1:30 pm
The cost of bread and gas might not be directly effecting the owners and stars in the league, but it effects me the and other 200 million fans of the nba. So when all those fans are thinking prudence and chosing what luxuries to cut from there life it could be season tickets for a ticket package, or beer and a hot dog for a pop. I cant see how this couldnt indirectly effect the owners and their team salaries.
Euroguy Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
“There are risks leaving the U.S., terrorism aside.”
What does that mean? Last time I checked, 9/11 happened on american soil. This statement seems to insinuate that terrorism is happening regularly in Europe. Odd.
nmonyei Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 2:09 pm
20 mill for 3 years, not to mention these guys play half the games.
Cost of living could also be lowered due to the change in overall lifestyle
not to mention Greece, they got ladies that love ball players out there too.
not a bad option
Balin Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 2:54 pm
This issue is too many dumb rules in the NBA and the Euro is strong and getting stronger. The economy here in the US is down which brings the dollar down also. If I had the talent I would skip the NCAA and go to europe where I can still get a great education and get paid to play ball. NBA fixing games doesnt help either.
Nicholas Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 2:56 pm
I was under the impression that I said EUROPEAN PLAYERS, did I studder? People who make a lot of money usually spend a lot of money is my point here and it has nothing to do with the economy. They still drive expensive cars that use a lot of gas. Teams like the knicks, nuggets (a la camby), and warriors are avoiding overpaying players but there will always be someone who gets overpaid.
zach Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 3:51 pm
wow, times must really be getting bad when NBA players are feeling an economic pinch lol
Toni (USA) Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 4:32 pm
“This issue is too many dumb rules in the NBA and the Euro is strong and getting stronger. The economy here in the US is down which brings the dollar down also. If I had the talent I would skip the NCAA and go to Europe where I can still get a great education and get paid to play ball. NBA fixing games doesn’t help either”
Could not have said it better myself except the education part. Don’t kid yourself, if my parents didn’t bring me here when I was 14, that would have been the end of my formal education as I was in one of those sports academies (Yugoslavia back in the day). They offer education, but it’s not really “emphasized,” especially if you are a star.
With the rules thing, that is why TEAM USA struggles in these international competitions because the mugging that goes on in the pain isn’t allowed in Europe. Also, the Euros are getting tired of sitting on the bench because some young guy with “physical” talent shows promise but can’t hit a basket beyond 5 feet. Also, you play 40-45 games TOPS, for the year. Not 100+ with the playoffs if you are a star in the NBA, which is probably why these European teams look fresher in these international competitions. I wouldn’t be surprised to see more guys go. The lifestyle in Western Europe is much better as well (CAN YOU SAY MORE RELLLAAAXXEEDDD).
Steven Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 5:41 pm
Good lord, that was a struggle to read. Definitely one of the most poorly written articles I have ever read. This guy needs to be let go, or at least the editor.
Fab Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 5:42 pm
“There are risks leaving the U.S., terrorism aside.”
Man, are you a joke? What’s this article about, already?
SE Green Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 5:43 pm
Let’s face it - any NBA player going to Europe is looking for more playing time and the money that goes with it. And you don’t find Hall of Famers or All-Stars going over there.
Josh Childress, Carlos Delfino and Jorge Garbajosa are nice piece players and nothing more.
Can we be honest for a minute? America, despite all of the best efforts of those on the left, is the greatest country on the planet. No American in their right mind would choose Europe over the NBA if they thought they were good enough to make it in the here.
Sorry to be so honest,
SE Green
The Truth Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 7:14 pm
Marbury just said that he and his wife liked it there, he didn’t say anything in that article about playing in Italy because he thought he would get more money.
It's all about the Benjamins (or the Euro's) - Page 2 - Detroit Pistons Fan Community - PistonsForum.com Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 7:20 pm
[...] more players are going to start using that leverage. Hoopshype has a great story on the issue: HoopsHype.com NBA Blogs - Sam Smith
Meat Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 7:33 pm
people that dont realize europe is becoming alot more appealing arnt very cultured, main reason most the world hates us, news flash the good ol us of a is no longer the shit, our money is turning more an more into shit, on top of it all they dont have no crappy income tax to rob players of significant amounts of money, i wouldnt be surprised at all if europe becomes the new nba
*netsfreak* Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 9:05 pm
two things… never use marbury and star in the same sentence with out a not or never was. also no nba superstar will go to europe, because there come a point when winning is more important than anything and you want to win the tile of WORLD CHAMP not some spanish (no disrespect to spain) league where your team is the only one with a high enough pay roll to afford talent; and if you say it is about the $$$ after ten million per year you don’t really need that extra 3mill or what ever the foreign club can give you.
but if your looking for a star that might go over sees try marion.
1 he always wants to be THE MAN.
2 pat won’t give him an extension
3 no team will want to give him the big bucks the year before legendary 2010 free agency class.
but you will get some guys following jennings, but they are not stars yet so technically i am still right.!.!.!.!.!.!.!.!
LBJ to NJ
Sports,Uncategorized | NBA — Recycle Email Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 9:47 pm
[...] The great escape By Sam Smith Stephon Marbury has been hinting around for a year or so that it would be him, an NBA All-Star, to flee to Europe because it pays better than the NBA. But Marbury no longer is a star, assuming he ever really was. … HoopsHype.com NBA Blogs - Sam Smith - http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/smith [...]
Mike Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 10:04 pm
First, the terrorism angle does play factor into a player’s decision especially when teams in Israel and Turkey are involved. Not one player would question signing with Macabbi if not for the fact that they have to live in Tel Aviv. This has been the case for as long as Americans have gone abroad, and probably will continue for as long as we live.
Second, the economy does play a role. When corporations struggle, when laborers struggle, businesses having to do with discretionary income feel the effects. It isn’t like the guy who goes to two or three games per year cutting back one because of increased gas and food costs. It is the businesses who buy the $100-$1000 seats in the lower bowls of the stadiums not renewing their packages. The companies who buy ad revenue on tv, radio, and inside the stadiums. And when billionaire owners see that revenue could slow, even supposed freespenders like Mark Cuban tend to quiet down.
Third, Russia isn’t on the euro. So when these players are racing off to BC Khimki or CSKA Moscow, it isn’t because of the strength of the ruble. In the past two years the dollar went from like $1.25 to the euro to close to $1.60. That is a huge change, and certainly it would play a role for someone playing in Spain or Italy as to whether they should move to the US. One ruble is still only worth about 4 cents. The Russian economy is growing, but don’t confuse the ruble with the euro.
Fourth and final, the Hawks owners are incompetent. Belkin and the rest of the Atlanta Spirit group make Don Sterling look like a genius. I can see how Josh Childress can meet with any just about any other professional organization in the world and consider them to be better than the Hawks. Atlanta are on the NBA radar for the first time in a decade, and those owners are going to blow it. I understand that they can’t rationalize paying both Josh Childress and Josh Smith. With Marvin Williams coming up for an extension next year, they won’t be able to keep everyone happy, BUT they can’t afford to let Childress leave without compensation. Along with Horford and Johnson, Smith is a major part of their future. They need to quit dragging their feet and extend him. Otherwise, the Hawks will go back to 20-30 wins with a crowd of family and friends.
YouAreAFagLittleGay Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 10:43 pm
And this is all happening on David Stern’s watch. What an idiot. The sooner David Stern is fired the sooner the NBA recovers.
First obsessing with the players’ off-court image.
Then tinkering with the rules to weaken defenses and soften the American players to the international full-contact style of basketball.
Then his vendetta with Mark Cuban that saw Dwyane Wade shoot nearly as many free throws as the entire Mavericks team in the finals.
Then the referee/Donaghy scandals.
Then Seattle being robbed of their team.
Now watching as player after player bolts for Europe.
How can a man so incompetent stay in charge?
The Running of the Free Agents Begins? - EmptyTheBench.com Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 11:15 pm
[...] unknown youngsters like Childress and Jennings. According to Sam Smith’s HoopsHype blog a marquee name will be headed to Europe. [...]
Carsten Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 12:30 am
Yeah, the rest of the world ist just terrorism. Only the US is a safe place…
Jay Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 12:36 am
I keep hearing people harp about the value of the Euro. While the Euro is worth more the mortgage crisis is affecting Europe too. The gap between the Euro and dollar is decreasing even though the strength of the Euro might be better in the long run. Not to mention, the cost of living might be higher in Europe depending on where he lives of course. I wonder if the benefit is worth the tax implications and the cost of living expenses. You probably have to pay Federal, State, County, and International taxes too. You seek deductions for all that crap and you probably have to deal with AMT when you make that much money. I hope he has some good advisors that aren’t just focused on getting their commissions.
jerrymie Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 2:14 am
seriously, terrorism? are you kidding me?
whats the big idea behind that argument?
could be offending to some people (depending on what the hell you mean by that)….
Tomas Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 3:15 am
There were times when NBA wasn’t only the best league in the world but it also used to pay the biggest money (not talking about the super-star contrcts), but with all the problems USA is having because of those stupid war affairs made players open their eyes now. You won’t find many players that would turn down a double contract just because they woulnd’t play in the NBA. And why not? Why should european superstars like Garbajosa or Navaro stay somewhere where they get less money and less playing time… my bad maybe in thosing these 2
they really had everything ok in my opinion
adrian Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 5:56 am
i think the black athlete needs the change of scenery at an early age like Brandon Jennings. Hopefully more guys will make this choice THE NBA IS a very unfair monopoly. They have restricted player movement and choice of the players drastically. Usually the only option a player has is to do a KOBE BRYANT or lay down like Vince Carter did in Toronto. Under the current setup you will never see a big time guy fly the coup like football and baseball. Seems like when i grew there were quite a few quality white players. Once the league went more black, all the rules fly in with great restriction. No offense guys but I don’t see restriction in baseball, i still see Barry Zito getting ignorant dollars after the Mike Hampton fiasco, footballs is filled with dead money from guys getting cut after get big prorated signing bonuses. Why did Paul Pierce re-sign with the Celts a couple of years ago? We know why cause he had no choice. We need a Jerryd Bayless, Joe Alexander, Brooke Lopez, OJ Mayo to hit the Euro leagues. Trust me PUMA, PONY, Converse or some marketer will look to get in some that BOOM. It changes the game. Since this is a black dominated sport i think the culture will help the players more. American culture for black people is an accident waiting to happen. The NBA needs to revise many things…We need our real stars going over there not a Josh Childress or Ricky Davis, but maybe a stud 11th grader! get em early!
OO Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 6:30 am
I dont agree with some certain points of this article - first of all its written as if going to Europe you’re going to be killed by Terrorists. Come on? We are talking about Spain, Italy, Greece and Russia - neither country is a dangerous country to live in with maybe the exception of Russia, but to be affraid of terrorism going to Europe would be insane.
Second of all - FIBA does help and guarantee that contracts are honoured in Europe, IF the Player has a FIBA Licensed Agent, which most US agents aren’t and don’t seem to care to be. If the Player signs with a FIBA Agent that then makes a deal and puts in a preamble about FIBA Arbitral Tribunal in the contract, then the “FAT” (Arbitration) will look at the contracts and if the contract is written in favour of the player (that he is entitled to his money) he will get it, the FIBA will force the club to pay, if they don’t, they will fine them, if they still don’t pay, they will suspend the club from signing new foreign players - and if they still do not react they will go to the federation in the country and they will have to pay the player etc.
Regarding European contracts - players pay NO taxes whatsoever in the country they play in, the club will take care of that, and the Player will get papers that taxes are paid for in his country of work, that he can show in the US when doing his taxes. So if Childress signs with Olympiakos for exampel, for 20$ Million US Dollars - then he will get 20.000.000$ on his bankaccount - taxfree + the team will provide him with his own house (that they pay for), meals every day (that they pay for) and a car (That they pay insurance and taxes on) - Childress (or any other player for that matter coming to Europe) only necessary expenses would be phonebills and gasoline for the car (+ if he wants to shop things of course).
Just wanted to make thoose things clear. Other than that this was a great article.
Gauthier Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 8:29 am
“There are risks leaving the U.S., terrorism aside.”
What a strange world outside the US borders… I always thought the smiling peoples in Europe were wierd… now I know they were terrorists. Aahhh OK.
Thank you Mister Smith for this very wise statement, this is really helping. And stay tuned on Fox News of course!
elpd Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 9:02 am
In Europe the only thing you don’ t have to worry about is terrorism… Spain had a terrorist attack because it joined the US in a military campaign. The same in UK where is “less” Europe and “more” US. In addition, it is impossible for the normal people to carry guns, so incidents like virginia tech simply don’ t happen. Provided you keep away from bad neighbours and ghetos (which is more or less the same in the US) you are safe and this is valid also for former communist countries. Seriously, US is more unsafe country than e.g. Germany or France, or even from Greece.
I suppose that you have never lived in Europe and terrorism argument is coming from ingorance. Otherwise it is pure prejudice and narrow-mindness.
…As for NBA transfers to Europe, apart from the Euro currency there are other reasons
a) you don’t have to give 82 matches in the regular season. It’s about 35 for the national champ and about 20 for the euroleague.
b) NBA is declining. In greece, NBA at 80’s and 90’s consired something unreachable. Top class, divine.. Now I think people are more interested in Euroleague basketball. Many top-class players are not americans. If the europeans cooperate better and promote the Euroleague, I think that in 10 years it will be equivalent to NBA.
You should also mind the team USA because it is the image of the NBA to people which are not very relative with basketball, but they are going to watch a major sport event like the Olympics ore the world champ. And the NBA champions are not the world champs. The world champs are (unfortunately) the spanish guys.
Observer Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 9:24 am
The sentence about terrorism is realy funny. Do you mean that the olympic team will probably die in China?
You should also take in consideration that people can’t own guns in most of europe. Maybe our players are fleeig from the NRA!
Disdainful Shiver Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 10:02 am
why is it that some people always feel a need to transform debates into a means of racial profiling?
drupad tripathi Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 11:09 am
watch the olympics when vince carter dunked on that white boy…. that’s what i think of European Basketball…. fuck josh childress, and this dumb ass article
C Burner Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 11:21 am
As for terrorism..you really think a player in Israel, Iran, or Russia is more safe than in the states? What terrorism has happened here since 9/11? The US is the safest country in the world. And the economy impacts those top 10% earners more than you think, you know what the property tax per year is on a 5-10 million dollar house? And for that matter, players like Childress and Jennings are still paying American taxes by virtue of being United States citizens. Cash rules everything around you!
rexako Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 11:28 am
In Greece there is no problem with terrorism. DO not said that again . Greece is far away more secure country than USA. No guns licence, no knifes . Also the most important thing in the transfer of childres was tha tax free. The $20 m was net free. This is most important. $7 m per year. This is a deal . Also add to this a huge house next to the sea with all th eleisure add the 300 days of 365 days per year sunshine and also the beuty greek ladies. All that is the most important. Last consider that in the Europe players play only 45 games maximum in the year.
Jay Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 11:31 am
OO, I don’t know about the tax code in European countries but you cannot simply pay someone’s taxes in America. Also, taxes are high in some parts of Europe, so I doubt they would let millionaire athletes roam around without making them pay income tax too. They might get deductions but I seriously doubt they get to work tax free in Europe as a US citizen. Imagine how many multinational corporations would use that loop-hole if that were true. If these guys aren’t paying US taxes then they’re going to have some serious problems in the future. The US is not giving up any income tax revenue without a fight regardless of where you claim to work. Check this out: http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/09/01/yourmoney/money.php?page=2
SoloRO Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 11:53 am
This is what happens when you see an overrall decline in the quality of a league. This is a problem for the Commish to solve. This is his baby and some of his policies are begin to turn and bite him in the you know what. The League image has slightly improve over the years since the dress code was enforced, but what about the economic viability of the League. Maybe promoting teams more and not just players Ala MJ will lead to a better product. Maybe!
jameservinberry Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 1:04 pm
Wanting to get paid big dollars isn’t a crime or a sin. As far as I’m concerned, most athletes seem to mismanage their money anyway. For the insight (world history) and travel opportunities alone I would sign with Greece.
As far as the NBA, they have been overpaying unproven athletes for many years. They deserve to be in the financial crunch they are in.
Chuck Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 3:17 pm
Anyone signing a fat contract over there just to be able to say “LOOK AT ME IM MAKING EUROS LOLZ” is late for the party. Anyone with a half a brain in economics knows how cyclical currencies are, and the Euro is near a top. I will laugh at anyone who signs a five year deal over there and sees the eur/usd exchange rate at the complete opposite of what it is now, 5 years from now. Only problem RIGHT NOW is that the Fed really doesn’t have half a brain.
Chuck Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 3:24 pm
Anyone signing a fat contract over there just to be able to say “LOOK AT ME IM MAKING EUROS LOLZ” is late for the party. Anyone with a half a brain in economics knows how cyclical currencies are, and the Euro is near a top. I will laugh at anyone who signs a five year deal over there and sees the eur/usd exchange rate at the complete opposite of what it is now, 5 years from now. Only problem RIGHT NOW is that the Fed really doesn’t have half a brain. As soon as he gets the idea it’s time to long the buck.
Either way if you plan on living here where only DOLLARS are spent, it should be fine to get paid in dollars. Call me when a Euro that has as much talent as Dirk, TP, or Gasol stay in Europe instead of playing against the best talent and getting paid in “lowly dollars”.
bates money(flint stone) Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 3:49 pm
yelito makes a lot of sense, the nba overpays a guy for scoring 19 points one year thinking he is going to be next big thing and then what happens he never does anything else his whole career but causes a team a bunch of problems .players like brian cardinal 42 mil dampier 73 mil ben wallace 60 mil guys who should be hapy just being in the nba but want top dollar please why not go overseas.
rexako Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 3:58 pm
NO . you did not understand what i said Jay Said. when i said tax free i mean that the owner of Olympiacos(Greek team) will pay the tax for the player. of course you should pay tax in greece, but the owner will pay all the tax for the player. so childres will have 7 million per year (net income). come on guys . this is incredible deal.
Schlomo Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 4:18 pm
Despite this, the best basketball players in the world will still be the nba..isnt the best player in euro ball coming to america (Rudy Fernandez)…so if anything euro ball will attract all the money hungry stars they hate so much..and we get all the passionate, talented basketball players the nba has been needing..fair trade indeed!
Mvblair Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 7:16 pm
Sorry to say this to some of the jinoists here, but chumps don´t play for EL teams. EL teams have big time players and are playing so well that NBA teams are reducing their preseason games with the EL to avoid losing.
Jay Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 7:25 pm
Rexako, I get what you’re saying. I don’t have the knowledge to generalize about European tax laws. I mean Europe isn’t a country. It’s a continent with various sovereign laws. Maybe, Greece is different and an employer can pay income taxes for an employee. However, in the US it would still be considered income and he would still be required to report it. Childress cannot dodge US taxes just because he works in Greece where the rules may be different. Also, I agree with Chuck. I wouldn’t base this decision entirely on currency, especially when he might get hit with exchange rates. Moreover, there are all these murmurs about the enforcement of these European basketball contracts. The offer from the Hawks looks better to me given the security of knowing you will get paid. I don’t see Greece making sense for similar money unless he balls out as a starter in Europe and comes back for a better paying gig as a starter. Although, he could just want to take the road less travelled and experience Europe. He’s a young dude and that would be a cool experience. Anyway, he has a nice problem. How awesome would it be to have this as a problem? lol
Joe Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 8:26 pm
“Let me remind you that Mo Evans and Sarunas Jasiikevichvic are former Euro league MVPs”
Nough said, end of discussion. Its really not that serious
Meat Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 8:49 pm
if u think the dollar will come back ur misinformed, by the end of the year u’ll be like damn that josh childress wasnt as dumb as i thought he was
Meat Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 8:52 pm
if u were informed about what the financial situation across the globe really is, ud know the usa is in major debt, contries dont wanna sell to us anymore, why u may ask, because there giving stuff to us for free, most companies wont even accept the dollar anymore, across seas that is, an the whole terrorism thing is a joke, the only country with the ability to pull 9-11 off is the almight us of a
Room12 Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 10:06 pm
Yep, It is going to happen. It is a marketable sport and other markets have to over spend to pure ticket buyers.
This will further water down the NBA, a league that needs to excommunicate about six teams to get the skill level where it should be.
It is a business and just like players used to come only from within the US. The interest has spread… we’re seeing players from other regions and that interest has bred successful teams from other regions.
RT Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 11:34 pm
It is a sad realization that I have come to that players these days are just in it for the fat contracts and not for the love of the game.
Also, I feel like these are players who cannot hack it in the most talented league in the world. They are admitting failure by bolting for Europe. The euro is high now but currencies are cyclical, so you never know where the dollar will be compared to the euro 2-3 years from now.
Vinny Said,
July 24, 2008 @ 4:46 am
“There are risks leaving the U.S., terrorism aside.”???? …..Cmon, the best leagues in Europe are in Spain, Italy, Greece and some others teams in Russia that have lots of million to spend in good players. Tell me please just one trouble with terrorism that you herad, here in Europe that involved a basket team…NONE fellas!!
Let´s talk ´bout the game…..
AB_40 Said,
July 24, 2008 @ 7:18 am
The NBA must higher the cap in 2010 cuzz more and more players are gonna do this. Within 10 years there will be given a verry lucrative offer to one of the nba’s big stars, bigger then what he can make in the nba if het bolts then David Stern is gonna be in trouble.
Ohw yeah people from the states thank your boy GWB.jr. for all this you don’t even wanna know how much he spent on his ‘war against terror’… be real now you can’t fight terror. That’s the most ignant ish I’ve heard in a long time etc. etc. etc. off topic ish. What I’m saying is midlevel exception players with star potential will get bigger contracts from europe then in the nba even with player clauses so they can leave after seasons for the nba. It’s more then logical to think that players will leave for that…
Celtics247.com » Blog Archive » Today’s Links 7/24 Said,
July 24, 2008 @ 8:17 am
[...] move to Greece hurts Hawks on many levels Connecticut Post Signings and waiting Hoopshype The great escape RealGM No rest for the architect: Danny Ainge’s summer vocation Sports of Boston Celtics [...]
hooper Said,
July 24, 2008 @ 8:22 am
it has very little to do with the cap, it has everything to do with the value of dollar versus the euro
Jorel Jenious Said,
July 24, 2008 @ 10:27 am
The nature of everthing is change. The league is no different.
The truth is that the league (managment and big wigs.) have acted as if the league has autonomy over the sport of basketball. It doesn’t.
Euro teams are bridging the gap. Both in play, publicity, and profit.
Americans have no control over business.
As much as fans see sport (which is what we are supposed to be focusing on), owners see capital.
Within the next 4 - 7 years, a big time star will go there.
Very soon the only gap will be in the talent of top tier players (and there are only about 25 of those in the league today.)
The natural thing is to resist. To stomp our feet and rave about OUR players and OUR teams. This league isn’t yours at all. Seattle residents can tell you that.
Andreas Said,
July 24, 2008 @ 11:40 am
I am a Greek Olympiakos fan living in London and really happy with the transfers my team has done this year. We have one of the top5 teams in Europe already and this year we got among others the best point guard in Europe from CSSKA Moscow (Theo Papaloukas) and one of the best centers (Vuisic) from Macabi Tel Aviv. Now with Josh Childress I believe we completed the best roster on this side of the Atlantic and I am sure the team would be able to at least make the playoffs if it was to compete in the NBA.
In general I believe that the main difference between European basketball and NBA is that in the US the game is much faster and more physilcal but in Europe the teams play a lot better tactically. This can also be seen with what is happening with the US national Team. Although they got better players on an 1 to 1 comparison, they sometimes find themselves outplayed by teams like Spain, Greece, Argentina, Croatia or Serbia… In fact I am really looking forward for the basketball in this years Olympic games… One of the groups includes Spain Greece and the US and I think we ll watch soem fantastic matches.
I think that the Childress transfer is groundbreaking because it is the first AMERICAN (and not returning European player) that leaves the NBA in a good age (he is not 35 like Dominique Wilkins) to go play in Europe. I think it shows that European teams are now able to invest sums of money that, because of the salary cap, NBA teams are not able offer. This thing was simply unheard of few years back. It is very likely that more and BETTER players will follow… For example Ginnobili’s and Iverson’s contracts are expiring next year so who knows…
In general you NBA fans I believe you would enjoy watching some Euroleague matches involving teams like Olympiakos, Panathinaikos, Barcelona, CSSKA Moscow, Tau Ceramica… do give it a try if you got the chance. And of course support Olympiakos
Frankie J Said,
July 24, 2008 @ 2:01 pm
In all fairness, I do think this whole issue is being blown out of proportion. The vast majority of NBA players bolting to Europe consisted of players who previously WERE from Europe but could not find their games here in the U.S. As for Josh Childress, it’s funny how a NBA-wide panic is setting across as this could potentially signify an oncoming trend. Childress opted to just see somewhere new, and hell, if he’s getting paid 20 million for the three years he’s there, why not take that opportunity. The first thing that came to my mind after hearing the news is how I felt immedietly after high school. What college should I go to? Somewhere close, far? Will I be poor? Etcetera, etcetera…I doubt NBA players, getting paid millions as they are, feel the impact of rising gas and food prices, and I doubt any are intelligent enough (with all do respect, of course) to feel or fret upon the thought that the U.S. dollar is declining. They have millions, they are the one’s who can withstand this storm. Childress got a pretty damn good offer. He gets to seem some place new, be the star of the team, and get paid 20 million dollars doing it for a few years. Like college man, like getting a scholarship for a good, respected international university. That’s all it is, really.
fidel maithya Said,
July 24, 2008 @ 3:31 pm
hey i think what’s currently happening in basketball is great. i come from kenya where the most popular sport[watch and played] is soccer. kenyans are fascinated by the english premiere league[equivilant to the NBA]. but that’s not to say that the english league provides you with high octane entertainment. the spanish[la liga], the german[bundesliga], the italian[serie A] leagues are all very fun to watch and have star players in their own right. in my humble opinion, i don’t think any sport develops with one dominant league in existance[in this case the NBA]when players are free to move around and play for different teams be it in the NBA or in the european leagues, the game improves. for example european players and actually most players who play outside the states are strong in their fundamentals and as has been noticed over the years this culture is now been instilled in american ball players. if anything the U.S is going to have a good olympics thanks this globalistion of what has been perceived as an american sport.
valadis Said,
July 24, 2008 @ 3:42 pm
i really doubt if lebron james could score average 20 points in europe right now! or dwane wade or kobe!!!!!! think more before you answer!!
james Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 12:24 am
they don’t use the euro in russia in case any of you inbred fools didn’t know that
waaiiit Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 5:20 am
are u kiddin me valadis? lebron is a freak of nature, dwade i dunno if he could drive in the euros like in the nba, but kobe? come on now kobe is the best bball player on the planet he’d destroy everyone in his way
space Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 2:48 pm
they get paid bigger bucks to do what they love. why wouldn’t you go. the grass is ALWAYs greener. although the idea is scary for the entire future of the nba, i actually applaud the moves of childress. we all have to consider that at some point the nba may NOT be the home of the best basketball in the world. maybe the best players, but not the best basketball. from an olympic standpoint perhaps this may even help. nba players learning the european methodology is a good thing.
too many people are downgrading childress’ talents. sometimes the better players need to come off the bench for the sake of the team. if that is the case, then the nba just lost a good team player as well. marvin williams [a top 3 pick who has to play] and joe johnson [a better suited 2 guard] is in line in front of him. landry is a surprise. but the league know they lose if he leaves as well. now the mention of allen? in just 1 week this has turned into quite the serious matter. as this builds steam and the average number of nba players who leave rise from 5 to 10, the more college players who want cash and cannot get it because they are only 18, then it becomes more of a problem.
the nba player now almost has leverage over the franchises.
he can actually say: well i don’t like your offer, i’m leaving. —and mean it. and be able to live with the circumstances. imagine the reality of the situation: an agent has a meeting with a player and his wife. the agent mentions playing for two years in italy. all bias aside, what woman is not going to support being in italy for two years. see it for what is america, being in europe, living in europe is still a dream for many. that does not include the added $$$. if childress has an incredible experience there, then word will spread in the most dangerous of places in the nba– among the young upcoming players of the nba. soon-to-retire stern will be flabbergasted. hell, i will be too. but i would only be able to say ‘good job and take care of the family childress’. if this doesn’t have respect, then in time it soon will. consider it to be the new myspace. seems stupid and questionable at first but in a few years everyone who matters has or is influenced by myspace. you can disregard it now and have to listen to the 1000 ‘i told you so’s’ from the believers.
another potential greg oden will come along at some point. leave for the money and millions of euros for one year of play… dominate… then actually decide to stay. imagine a superstar who never even makes it to the nba. the world needs to expand. congrats euroleague and russian for not sitting idly by.
i await the next few years of transactions and madness.
Reno Said,
July 26, 2008 @ 11:14 pm
“i really doubt if lebron james could score average 20 points in europe right now! or dwane wade or kobe!!!!!!”
Really? You’re far too generous. I’d say more like 16.
And Sam, the terrorism remark was far too funny. Too much Fixed News in your daily diet, perhaps?
BTW, I think NBA teams are more and more reluctant to take on large payrolls because … drum roll please … they’ve gotten to the point where it’s nigh impossible to pass off such overhead to their fans. In other words, they’ve ran out of suckers to foot their bill. The ailing economy probably didn’t cause this, but it’ll sure give team owners the motivation to act and act quickly.
airstefo23 Said,
July 27, 2008 @ 10:29 am
panathinaikos will make the big deal next year…
Stephen Said,
July 28, 2008 @ 10:14 pm
People fail to realize the NBA pays players based upon marketability, scoring, and sometimes making teams better. Yes, Marbury’s contract looks crazy now. But those of you who can remember at one time this guy was one of the top 5 point guards in the NBA. This guy got his money from Phoenix and not the NY Knicks. The NBA is a business and they paid this man based upon his performance. The guy averaged 20ppg and 8 assist for his career. There are not too many guys that have done that. Plus he was putting butts in seats. So thats how he got a maximum contract. You think those owners didnt know he was a head case, of course they did. But they made a great amount of money off that dude too. So it was really a win/win situation. It was until they had enough of his crap that they got rid of him. I’m not defending him, I’m just defending why he received a maximum contract. Plus, no one will ever doubt Marbury’s talents. Let’s face it, it’s a reason why that guy was a number 4 pick in the 1996 draft and he produced immediately. He is a head case but dude was a beast from the years of 1997 through 2004.
David Said,
July 30, 2008 @ 2:11 am
“Let me remind you that Mo Evans and Sarunas Jasiikevichvic are former Euro league MVPs”, that what really wise, besides not being able to write Sarunas Jasikevicius name properly, another Euro League MVP was Manu Ginobili, is he also not good enough for you??
You keep thinking there is a talent gup between Europe and USA, because you’re right, only it may be the other way around, try to compare Rudy Gay with Manu Ginobili, that’s were the gap is, USA players, like Gay, LeBron, Carmelo, Kobe…do not kno whow to pass, not know what a team is, that’s why in FIBA world championships, or Olympic Games, USA ‘Dream’ Team was not able to win or reach a final in last 8 years…where is the gap??