A whole new ball game?
- What does Josh Childress signing with a foreign team mean for the NBA?
David Bauman (agent for Andrew Bogut and Predrag Stojakovic): That signing will have a huge impact on the thinking of general managers and agents around the league. No longer will GMs be able to make low offers to players, or threaten them with the “right to match” any offer. Furthermore, when given a choice of the mid-level (roughly $5.5 million, minus 50 percent for taxes, or $2.8 million net) or signing for $5 or $6 million (net of taxes) in Europe, the decision is easy for some players. Furthermore, in Europe the clubs provide plane tickets for family members to visit, nice houses and apartments, luxury cars, schooling for children, and the clubs pay an agents’ fee of up to 10 percent. The time is coming when Europe will be a viable alternative for NBA players, just as David Beckham left England to play in Spain, and then left Spain to play in the MLS.
Bill Neff (agent for Jason Hart and Kevin Ollie): It adds a bit of leverage, for sure. But I will bet any amount of money he does not finish his contract there and returns here. He got more there, but at what price? Will he ultimately be happier? I think not.
Chris Luchey (agent for Wilson Chandler): In my opinion it begins to change the entire dynamics of free agency. Teams being conservative in the past based on restricted free agents will now have a much larger and more efficient threat. How do you match an European offer?
Guy Zucker (agent for Thabo Sefolosha and Ryan Bowen): It means that this has become a truly global market, that is now relevant for a larger number of NBA players, where the NBA is still the biggest but not the only significant player.
Bill McCandless (agent for Mickael Pietrus): Most agents have for some time regarded restricted free agency as an oxymoron. With certain exceptions, restricted free agents have not be truly free. And during a player’s RFA year, it has been historically unlikely that the free agent will be fairly compensated by his team or another team willing to make an offer. But Childress’ willingness to play outside the NBA, in his prime, means that teams may think twice about letting the player dangle all summer long. And now, while Europe might have been an option for Nachbar and other European-born players, it seems that the smartest American players can jump to Europe and make more money.
- Do you see the beginning of a trend here?
DB: The salary cap is only getting tighter… I don’t see a player like Lebron James or Kobe Bryant signing in Europe, but the players who are at the next level down will have some serious options.
BN: I do not necessarily see a trend. It is nice that there is competition for a player’s services since the CBA does not provide it.
CL: The trend is being set that some players may opt for their market value regardless of what league they are in. NBA teams now have to deal with offers from a market that they have no control of. It can reshape the collective bargaining agreement and the free agency market.
GZ: It’s way past the beginning. Players will go where the money is the highest, in general. The trend has more to do with bigger global economic factors – the weakening of the dollar vs. euro and the explosion of energy prices, which benefits Russia, for example – than with basketball factors. Obviously, with more players leaving, it has also become more acceptable to go the foreign route.
BM: Yes, I do see a trend. European teams are getting bigger and bigger budgets, and now have the ability to lure American players to their leagues.
- How big a hit to restricted free agency is this?
DB: In the past, it has always been assumed that restricted free agents were stuck. They either had to take a team’s lowball offer of an extension, get an offer sheet, or sign the qualifying offer and play one more year. Now players can simply sign in Europe and leave their NBA shocked and holding their rights but nothing more. It is interesting to note that I just signed Andrew Bogut to a five-year, $72.5 million contract extension with Milwaukee. The Bucks value Andrew, respected him, and offered him a very fair contract to commit to the Bucks. It is clear that they did not want to leave anything to chance – an offer sheet next summer, Andrew signing the qualifying offer and leaving as an unrestricted free agent, or something as crazy as a huge offer from Europe. But neither Andrew nor I wanted to have to deal with restricted free agency either… The system is overly restricted and it is not allowing the free flow of free agents.
BN: If the management had their way, there would be no free agency so Josh Childress will be a speck on the horizon. I hope he gets all his money there. Very few players do.
CL: I think this move will help several of the free agents available now. Josh Smith, Iguodala and others should benefit from it, in my opinion. I think this move will help several of the free agents available now.
GZ: It’s a significant hit, since restricted free agency is rarely free agency, in reality, if players have only one market to choose from. Now they have better alternatives, in some cases.
BM: I am not sure that every NBA team is shaking in its boots at the prospect of losing its stars, but for mid-level American players and all European players except stars, players who are good rotation players, Europe is a serious option.
- Would you have adviced one of your players to do the same thing Childress did?
DB: My advice to any of my players with respect to contract offers is to weigh the pros and the cons. If a European club makes an offer to one of my NBA players, I would encourage him to look at it seriously. What Lon Babby and Jim Tanner did with Josh Childress was sound advice… They asked him to have an open mind, and by traveling to Greece and seeing the reality over there, he is able to judge their offer both on financial terms and in terms of the reality of what life in Greece would be like.
BN: I certainly would have looked for leverage so they did nothing wrong. I just hope they explained to him that the Greek tax rate is significantly less than our tax rate so he will have substantial taxes here. We live in an irrational market. Chris Duhon can make $6 million while Matt Barnes makes $926,000. In essence, we have a hard cap so I love that they looked around when there was no real competition for his services and as long as he understands these things and still makes an informed decision, more power to him.
CL: I think each specific player and situation is different, depends on the numbers and more importantly the maturity of the player.
GZ: Absolutely yes!
BM: At $21 million, net of taxes, who wouldn’t have advised his client to take a look? The world is getting smaller and smaller, and where would you really rather live: a smaller market U.S. city in the snow belt or Athens?
- What are the main downsides to leaving the NBA for Europe?
DB: The main downsides to leaving the NBA is the quality of play and the lifestyle. The NBA starts training camp in October and the regular season ends in mid-April. Non-playoff teams are done by April 18. The player gets the spring, summer and part of fall to himself. In Europe, the season starts mid-August, and runs through June. That is 10 months! Although the number of games played is less than or equal to the NBA, it is spread out over an additional three months. There are no back-to-back games, rather a maximum of three games per week. Usually, there is one game on a weekend, and one game midweek.
The other aspects are adjusting to a foreign country. Most European players coming to the NBA get homesick, miss their family and friends and hate the food. It takes them about one year to adjust. I think the same can be expected for an American going to Europe, especially a top NBA player who expected to be competing for an NBA championship.
I also think players might experience regret about leaving the comfy confines of the NBA – private planes, four seasons hotels, nice arenas, well-behaved fans, respectful refereeing, and a well-organized league. Europe is Europe – nice for a time, but I don’t know if a top NBA guy – a Childress, Josh Smith, or a Corey Maggette would enjoy it over there. Guys like Bogut, Stojakovic, Radmanovic (who are all my clients) would certainly be able to do it without hesitation because they are international players. But the top American players, I am not sure if that is a recipe for success.
BN: A contract there is not really worth the paper it is written on. Payments can be slow, a coach can change his mind on you after a few games and he will still be restricted when he returns.
CL: I think at the end of the day every American-born basketball player wants to play at the highest level, which is the NBA.
GZ: Much longer season, living further away from home and possibly losing on a potentially bigger NBA deal in the future.
BM: A restricted free agent leaving the NBA will remain a restricted free agent in the future. A year in Europe does not remove the RFA tag.
beRecruited SportsWrap » Josh Childress, just the first one Said,
July 24, 2008 @ 11:24 am
[...] Bauman, Josh Childress‘ agent, explains to Hoopshype what his client move to Greece means for the NBA. David Bauman (agent for Andrew Bogut and Predrag [...]
Gerard Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 8:26 am
Bauman, the lifestyle in Europe is much better! Also tell your players that they can start forgetting about those charity acts they “love”.
I just agree about the organization of the leagues and quality of the arenas. Refrees? Well, I remember one (two) guys that behave badly. Also about the fans I don’t remeber lately any riot between players and fans… The hotels… THE HOTELS?!?! What do you think? This is not Zimbawe. (all my respects to this country). Private planes? I think that my town team doesn’t have a private plane but almost all the big teams in Europe use a private one.
Bauman, grow up and fly away from your nest…
Bryan Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 11:06 am
Excellent conversation. I think the cultural aspect of Europe appeals to guys who grew up middle-class like Childress, since there’s a familiarity or at least curiosity. I think for folks who grew up in the inner city, Europe might as well be Mars. It’s just too foreign, too weird. I could imagine they’d much rather play in, say, Minnesota than Moscow.
It's all about the Benjamins (or the Euro's) - Page 5 - Detroit Pistons Fan Community - PistonsForum.com Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 11:31 am
[...] | Cleveland Leader Lakers concerned about European teams talking to Vujacic - The Daily Breeze HoopsHype.com NBA Blogs - Jorge Sierra
Kevin P Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 11:36 am
awesome article. good read.
Blacknight23 Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 11:39 am
Yes he will be restircted but how long can the hawks afford to have that cap hold. As soon as they renouce his rights he comes back. It’s a smart business move one I could see being replicated by Deng, BG, Okafur and other restricteds.
Jack Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 1:02 pm
Did you ask the agents how the agent fees international clubs traditionally pay might influence their advice to their clients?
There is a significant difference between what the NBA allows and what international clubs have always paid. It is customary (if not a exceedingly generous) for a club to pay to the agent (or ‘manager’) a fee of 10% of the contract.
In the case of Childress, an agent fee of 650-700K a year beats the heck out of 220-230K.
Jax Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
i think the down side of going to Europe will be the affect of the level of play in Europe to a player’s game. when the player one day decides to come back to the NBA, his value might diminish cause his skills did. this depends on every player and in every situation.
Slim79 Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 3:41 pm
confused with the last comment in the article. Does this mean that if Josh Childress returns next year, or any year to the NBA, he’s still property of the Atlanta Hawks? Can other teams sign him?
If no, then other than the money, what the heck was he thinking? The euro game won’t develop his game much (or at least as much as the NBA level) and when he comes back ATL can still match any offer sheet that he signs?
yiorgos Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 4:56 pm
in europe big money for american players can be payed by 6 or 7 teams olympiakos and panathinaikos from Greece CSKA moscow,Khimki from Russia Real Madrid, Barcelona,tau Ceramica from spain and Maccabi tel aviv from Israel no other can afford to pay more than 1 million dollars for a contract.Don`t expect the Europeans to be a real threat to nba teams.
Olympiakos owener will spend more than 40 million dollars for this year`s roster and they won`t get more than 15 million back(25 million dollars loss).
he just wants to win the triple crown (greek championship,greek cup and euroleague title )Olympiakos lost the last three greek championships by arch rivals Panathinaikos .
Olympiakos fans expect 30plus points from Childress and game winning shots against Pao
LeRoy Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 6:38 pm
I don’t really get it when David Bauman speaks about european lifestyle beeing a downside. Obviously it’s different but I wouldn’t say worst. I’m 27 and French but I lived in Dublin, Montreal, Ottawa, Sydney, Melbourne and Paris and as a middle-class guy I always have been able to find what I need anywhere so it’s not like the player would not not gona get comfy in Europe. I mean he’ll get free accommodation, free car, free visits for his family, he’ll probably play for one of the best european teams so it’s not like they’re gona stay in some hostels, plus many millions so he definitely won’t be needy. Homesick I can understand but not comfy I can’t.
bigmac Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 7:32 pm
Atlanta keeps thier rfa rights as long as they are willing to carry the cap hit. Of course it doesn’t make sense to give up cap space for a player who isn’t benefiting your team, so it looks like they are hoping the Hawks will renounce his rights and let him become a true FA. That is the reason he has the outs in his euro contract.
Hov Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 9:42 pm
it’s a pretty tricky one - I know people are overeacting a fair bit, but it really does put alot of the mid level players in question and makes you think - could an american player, drafted in the mid-late first round, decide that they’ll pass on their guaranteed rookie contracts and take 5m a season in Europe? I think it’s a legimate question.
googling the childress thing, this is pretty funny… http://thesportcount.com/2008/07/24/josh-childress-my-big-fat-greek-contract/
Dom Said,
July 26, 2008 @ 2:53 am
yea, the hawks keep the rights on him, but with him playing in europe, you have to question how long the hawks can afford those rights as they are counting against the cap in some way afaik. so i guess they will dismiss his rights sooner or later and when his contract in greece is up, i think he’ll be a true free agent.
and this bill neff guy has absolutely no clue about europe. a contract not worth the paper it’s written on? that’s definitvely not the case with the teams that are considering signing nba players. yet it’s no wonder neff has the creme de la creme of the nba under contract. oh wait, ollie and hart aren’t top tier nba players?
Jerry Said,
July 26, 2008 @ 3:15 am
And yeah, Atlanta hold onto his rights, probably not too bad a move given Josh will likely be back after a year or two of living life to the fullest by the Mediterranean. They can keep restricting him and whenever he’s back the whole process just starts again. Better than paying a 20% premium for your 6th man. The $QO applies to the cap every year though, and if they don’t restrict him he becomes an unrestricted free agent.
The NBA needs to embrace Europe, allow the free movement of players, American and international, between the two, let the players choose. Totally overhaul the retarded system of restricted free agency, loosen it up, while pushing FIBA to get the Euro teams to drop or limit those awful buyouts they stick in their players contracts, to protect themselves from the NBA poaching their own assets. Why can’t NBA and Euro teams make sign and trades, if the players in question agree to move continents? J
T42 Said,
July 26, 2008 @ 3:47 pm
Let’s not get carried away with the Childress and Jennings examples. There are still 45 Europeans playing in the NBA and I don’t see many wanting to go back - and a lot more trying to get to the NBA. Even with salary cap squeeze at the mid-level and a very weak dollar, don’t look for mass defections to Europe. And besides, it’s only 4-5 clubs max that are paying that kind of money. There is still no economic justification in Europe for paying Childress levels of money, except where there are some very rich gazilionaires/oligarchs ready to do so.
http://toddwarnick.blogspot.com
Schortsianitis Said,
July 26, 2008 @ 5:00 pm
a serious article..
Doby Said,
July 27, 2008 @ 9:11 pm
I’m happy for Josh. The one year rule is a joke! The NBA and NCAA has to face fact. If they can play there is no reason these young men should attend for year. It’s not required for young adults who began playing pro golf or tennis. Do the right thing. This is America and the land of free.
Doby Said,
July 27, 2008 @ 9:14 pm
I’m happy for Josh. The one year rule is a joke! The NBA and NCAA has to face facts. If they can play serious basketball there is no reason these young men should attend college for a year. It’s not required for young adults who began playing pro golf or tennis. Do the right thing. This is America and the land of the free.
Dee El Said,
July 28, 2008 @ 12:01 am
Having been in Europe alot over the last 15 Years (in Basketball) I’ll say this: Is anyone listening to Bill Neff about the money coming slow or not at all??
space Said,
July 28, 2008 @ 8:05 am
interesting conversation. whether east or west, it’s still an international world.
it is fair to say both sides will adjust. the nba will eventually figure out how to counter the euro & russian leagues in order to survive. but in turn the euro leagues will adjust as well. if nba players weren’t coveted, then they wouldn’t go after them. they will improve on their contracts, they will improve on other points that previously made european leagues less attractive. it will not be perfect but effort to improve is a curiously strong momentum. the nba in turn will definitely review their free agent system, if they haven’t done so already privately [haha]. perhaps they can develop a better strategy.
space Said,
July 25, 2008 @ 2:48 pm
“why wouldn’t you go? the grass is ALWAYs greener and money talks.
the nba player can now actually say: well i don’t like your offer, i’m leaving. —and mean it. and be able to live with the circumstances… if childress has an incredible experience there, then word will spread in a dangerous place- among the young upcoming players of the nba. if this doesn’t have respect, then it will gain more credibility over time. be prepared to listen to the 1000 ‘i told you so’s’ from the believers later. i await the next few years of transactions and madness.”
Hater Said,
July 28, 2008 @ 11:29 am
Childress may be getting paid now, but what happens when his deal expires? I doubt NBA teams will be throwing more than mid-level if he decides to come back.
LeeRoy Said,
July 28, 2008 @ 11:54 am
I don’t quite get your comments about Europe’s basketball level. Olimpiakos is a club with a big basketball tradition in which Childress is certainly going to improve his skills.
Yes, the 3 point line is easier to beat, but way better defended than NBA’s one.
He will be playing against smaller players, but zone defense is no joke when you are a player like Josh.
The teamwork involved in every play will surely improve his basketball intelligence and will help Josh gain knowledge of different aspects of the game.
Sure every player wants to play on the worlds top league, where the best players are, but please don’t underestimate Europes level.
Pedro (Double P) Said,
July 29, 2008 @ 4:01 am
NBA is the best league in world… You can go to Europe, make a lot of money, but is nothing like playing in the NBA…
And you can be a superstar in Euroleague and nobody knows you in U.S. A NBA Legend is recognize in the entire world.
An Euroleague trophy is nothing compared to a NBA ring.
Thats what I think. Euroleague is great, but who doesn’t love the NBA?
World Wide Sports Report » Blog Archive » NBA: Player Agents Respond To The International Marketplace Said,
July 30, 2008 @ 10:38 am
[...] NBA: Player Agents Respond To The International Marketplace [...]
beRecruited SportsWrap » Josh Childress, just the first one Said,
August 2, 2008 @ 12:06 pm
[...] Bauman, Josh Childress‘ agent, explains to Hoopshipe what his client move to Greece mean for the NBA. David Bauman (agent for Andrew Bogut and Predrag [...]