Worth the fuss?
Sam Cassell, Jamaal Magloire, Brent Barry… There’s a lot of noise these days about players getting picked up by teams trying to make a deep playoff run this spring. It has become a trend in recent years. Veterans stuck in losing franchises get their contracts bought out and join playoff squads that may give them a shot at the ring (or at least at reviving their careers). How’s that working out for those players and the clubs that sign them?
Not all that well.
Of the 24 players bought out of their contracts and subsequently signed by playoff teams between January 1 and the beginning of the playoffs the last five seasons, only two (Lindsey Hunter and Glenn Robinson) won the championship that year. Hunter averaged just 2.4 ppg for the Pistons in the 2004 playoffs following a trade that sent him from Detroit to Boston in February and a release that got him back in Motown later that month. Meanwhile, Robinson scored 50 points (on 35.6 percent shooting) in San Antonio’s title run.
Hunter’s and Robinson’s meager statistical production is more the rule than the exception among this bunch. Only one of the 24 players researched averaged double figures in scoring in the postseason. That would be Tim Thomas, who excelled with the Suns after being released by the Bulls in March 2006 – and cashed in big with the Clippers that summer.
(No wonder they were waived in the first place) .
PLAYOFF STATS
2003 Playoffs
Tyrone Hill (Philadelphia) / 2.8 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 14.1 mpg
Bimbo Coles (Boston) / 0.0 ppg, 0.7 apg, 3.3 mpg
Chris Whitney (Orlando) / 3.1 ppg, 1.0 apg, 15.9 mpg
2004 Playoffs
Eddie Griffin (New Jersey) / DNP
Hubert Davis / New Jersey / DNP
Charlie Ward (San Antonio) / 2.2 ppg, 0.2 apg, 2.6 mpg
Scott Williams (Dallas) / 0.0 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 3.7 mpg
Vin Baker (New York) / 5.5 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 14.3 mpg
Michael Doleac (Denver) / 2.0 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 9.8 rpg
Lindsey Hunter (Detroit) / 2.4 ppg, 0.9 apg, 12.1 mpg
Brevin Knight (Milwaukee) / 4.2 ppg, 3.4 apg, 20.2 mpg
2005 Playoffs
Eddie House (Sacramento) / 3.0 ppg, 1.3 apg, 7.7 mpg
Qyntel Woods (Miami) / DNP
Alonzo Mourning (Miami) / 6.1 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 2.20 bpg, 16.9 mpg
Wesley Person (Denver) / 3.8 ppg, 37.5 3P% 13.5 mpg
Elden Campbell (Detroit) / 1.2 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 5.7 mpg
Glenn Robinson (San Antonio) / 3.8 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 8.7 mpg
Alan Henderson (Dallas) / 2.0 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 10.2 mpg
Dale Davis (Indiana) / 5.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 23.9 mpg
2006 Playoffs
Chucky Atkins (Memphis) / 9.8 ppg, 3.0 apg, 36.4 3P%, 25.5 mpg
Tony Delk (Detroit) / 3.0 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 8.6 mpg
Tim Thomas (Phoenix) / 15.1 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 44.4 3P%, 31.8 mpg
2007 Playoffs
Chris Webber (Detroit) / 9.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.5 apg, 25.2 mpg
Eddie Jones (Miami) / 3.3 ppg, 1.7 apg, 22.2 FG%, 22.0 mpg
doyouwantmore? Said,
March 1, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
I think Sam’s addition to the Celts is one of the rare times when this situation actually pays off for obvious reasons. You can’t fault these guys for going with the buyout and signing with a playoff team. They’re just playing the odds and of course only one team can win but better to be on the one team that might win that year than the one team that doesn’t stand a chance.
Of course one or two million bucks is a pretty expensive lottery ticket for the odds that you’ll actually end up on the team that wins the chip.
CHris Said,
March 1, 2008 @ 4:12 pm
You can’t just look at numbers when you assess a player’s contribution to a team.
Good locker room guys are invaluable in the playoffs. Only a handful of the guys you listed had good leadership qualities, but you still can’t ignore that aspect.
Expect Sam Cassell to be more of an influence off the court than on. He will help Rondo to become a better player. With the guidance of Cassell, the PG spot isn’t as inexperienced as it used to be, which was the major knock on the Celtics at the beginning of the season.
Nic C Said,
March 1, 2008 @ 5:06 pm
I like the PJ Brown signing by Boston, for both backup big man time, and that locker room quality. Lue to Denver is OK, so is Giricek to Phoenix. But the one I really like is Theo to Detroit. If they are planning to use him like 15 or 20 minutes a game it could be the best pick up. However, Cassell to Boston could be a nightmare to Boston opponents in the playoffs come crunch time.
I love all of the statistics, nice post.
Dj _Akura-C Said,
March 1, 2008 @ 5:18 pm
I think the mentor-tutor relationship is soooo over worked in sports. I learned more playing than I ever did receiving “pointers” from a has been who is not playing anymore because of their fifth knee operation in 3 years. Sam can still play so he can help in that manner, but as far as him imparting wisdom to Rondo… don’t buy it. Sam wants to play and he doesn’t care who he has to “kill” to get playing time (see his flagrant 1 head chop to Rondo as exhiit 1). In the end Sam will bitch and moan if he isn’t on the floor in crunch time (even though he can’t guard a stationary bike). Mark my words, you will start to hear grumbling from Sam if he is given the Jason Kidd treatement (held out of the final seconds of a close game).
Bottom line, vetrans are cool if they are producing not when they are waving a towel like M.L. Carr on the bench. Vetrans get away with travels, hand checking, mugging, that rookies and 2nd year players can’t (yet). If Sam can’t run, he is wasting the C’s time and retarding the growth of Rondo.
Clay Davis Said,
March 1, 2008 @ 5:38 pm
I think you are looking at this the wrong way. I don’t think any team that acquires a veteran from a losing team is looking for that vet to come in and take on a heavy load of minutes. These are winning teams and their record was good prior to the vet signing with them, so their aim is to integrate their newly acquired player into the rotation and not disrupt their winning. So it’s highly unlikely any of these guys would be able to get the minutes required of them to but up big numbers.
With that said, I think the acquisition of Cassell to the Celtics should help them in late game situations. I don’t think they signed Cassell to play 35 minutes a game, infact they may only need him to play the final three to four minutes of every close game. The mentorship he can provide to Rondo cannot be measured by any stat.
As far as Jamaal Magliore….. guy is washed up.
Josh Said,
March 1, 2008 @ 6:51 pm
Locker Room presence is essential in playoff runs. A team full of big headed ball hogs versus a team with good balanced players that know their roles, I’d pick team number two everytime. It’s Detriot in this case. No real prolific scorer, but each player is great at their position. Any one of the main 4 can light it up. What makes Boston so good is The New Big 3 guarantees you 60 points. Whether each guy gets his 20, or one guy gets 30 and the other two pitch in 15 apiece, it’s all good. We all know Sam Cassell is one of the best point guards to back down his opponent, step back, and get an easy 2point jumper. Everytime. He doesn’t need alot of minutes. The main point missed on some of the guys in this article is that they might not score much, but they spread the floor and draw double teams. I expect Rondo’s jumper to improve alot. Sam will teach him how to be more confident, like he was in the first half the first time this season when Boston went against Detriot. Detroit pulled away with it in the 4th b/c Tony Allen came in and fell for Chauncey’s famous pump fake, get you in the air, step in and get fouled. If anyone remembers, Rondo went on a scoring run for like 6 or 8 points, one shot included him driving in with his right, pump faking with the right, spinning to the left with your right pivot foot in place and banking it in with the left hand. Sweet shot and SOOO hard to do. I’ve tried 100x and made it…10 or so. PJ Brown will be more rebounds and points than Pollard. Boston will only get better throughout the season. Paul Pierce will stay Mr.4th quarter, KG with be a defensive beast and audible quarterback, Ray Allen will be deadlier from downtown, and Rondo’s assists average will go up by 3 or 4. He deserves to be considered for most improved player of the year. Go Boston. They’ll meat up with either the Lakers or Spurs this year.
Melvin Said,
March 1, 2008 @ 7:01 pm
Wow,, i think you are thinking in a wrong way Jorge,.. Yes, veterans never get pass double digits but then so what? These players don’t come to their new team to carry the loads, they don’t even come to score. What they do is just provide an added spark and a leadership to a team….. Wow, can;t believe you’re looking for them to score in 20’s LOL…
http://basketballnonsense.blogspot.com/2008/02/sam-cassell-will-invade-celtics.html
Boston Whitey Said,
March 1, 2008 @ 7:26 pm
I’m sure Rondo will be thrilled that he’s now on the bench for those “final three to four minutes of every close game”. Or are you suggesting that Rondo and Cassell will be in together and Ray Allen will sit? Or Allen will play SF and Pierce will sit? No matter how you look at it, if Cassell is in then somebody gets bumped out.
Dustin Glefke Said,
March 1, 2008 @ 9:44 pm
I agree with you, Clay, but I think you are also looking at one thing incorrectly. You’re right that these successful teams are probably looking to add depth, experience and leadership as opposed to a real playmaker. My point of contention is that if you’re Boston and you pick up Cassell, do you WANT to try to work him into the final few minutes of every close game? First, that assumes it is that simple to be prepared to come in during crunch time and play great basketball, which is no easy feat. Second, if you want Rondo to be a fixture in your lineup heading into the future then you need him to learn how to deal with those situations first-hand at some point or another, and making him watch Cassell close out games won’t give him that experience to grow as a player.
Either way, I suppose those are the toils of trying to build a playoff roster heading down the stretch. I’m a Pistons fan whose only excitement in hearing of Detroit’s intention to sign Theo Ratliff once he clears waivers is for nostalgic reasons. He certainly adds depth, but every big man on our roster has played meaningful playoff time already. To be honest, the bigger addition might be Juan Dixon, and it’s anybody’s guess whether or not he makes the playoff roster at all. He offers the veteran presence everyone seems to overvalue in case our young guards Stuckey and Afflalo begin to play unproductive ball heading into late April. More than anything, all of these “waiver wire” transactions are merely insurance policies and not season-altering moves like the Gasol and O’Neal deals.
ssb Said,
March 1, 2008 @ 10:11 pm
several guys on that list were significant contributors off the bench or as starters in a limited role: webber, tim-thom, atkins, dale davis, house, and knight. those guys didn’t win the championship, but that wasn’t because thye didn’t contribute. all cassell is going to be asked to do is to is be a solid contributor off the bench.
Rudeboy Defender Said,
March 2, 2008 @ 8:21 am
Clay Davis was right on. Midseason signings are rarely done with the expectation that the guy will start and really be depended upon, Tim-thom and then cwebb on the pistons being major exceptions. Guys like Magloire and Ratliff will hardly ever leave the bench, but their teams will be glad to know they’re there as insurance policies.
I do think Cassell and PJ Brown will be major exceptions to this general rule, especially because the Celtics are very newly assembled and their bench is so inexperienced. Those 2 are both savvy, great for chemistry and can hit the open shot. PJ Brown will steal major playoff minutes from the mediocre Perkins, guaranteed. Barry might also make an impact back with San Antonio.
Great article!
rob Said,
March 2, 2008 @ 9:01 am
this guy obviously doesn’t know about basketball.. and if you think its not worth the web page you write on STOP contributing to the fuss by talking about them.
Clay Davis Said,
March 2, 2008 @ 10:24 am
In response to Boston Whitey,
I’m pretty sure they would bench Rondo and give Cassell his minutes in crunch time. Cassell may be a liability defensively, but on offense he will make his defender work and his mere presence on the court in the final minutes of a game would make the defense take notice since we all know he’s not afraid to take the big shot.
It should be noted that though alot of vets change teams during this time of the year, the only vets I expect to make contributions are the ones who are acquired via trade (i.e. Shaq, Jason Kidd). Thus far the Shaq trade looks to be a disaster, with the Suns getting burned night after night by opposing perimeter players (just look at what Kobe, Rudy Gay and Igoudala have done against them). The Suns better hope they can find a Bruce Bowen clone on the free agent list or they might not make the playoffs this season.
Marian Said,
March 2, 2008 @ 10:59 am
webber and Mourning were big in the playyoff runs of their teams that year. and without Zo miami doesn’t win that chip a year later
Scubadonwon Said,
March 2, 2008 @ 4:26 pm
Sam Cassell would have been traded to the celtics if they thought they wouldn’t have to get rid of tony allen or baby davis, so them getting him for free is a tremendous asset. look for him to shut it down n the playoffs and play in the clutch moments of every game. Brent Barry is worth more than his stats tell and blah blah blah blah blah eddie johnson sucks
Jay Said,
March 3, 2008 @ 3:46 pm
You neglected to mention Gary Payton in 2005. Payton began 2004-2005 with Boston, was traded to Atlanta in a deal that brought back Antoine Walker, subsequently released by Atlanta and re-signed with Boston within a two weeks.
This trade was the reason behind the 30-day rule of players joining their old teams. Payton’s return was successful for the Celtics, as they won the Atlantic Division title before falling to Indiana in seven games.
Rashidi Said,
March 3, 2008 @ 6:05 pm
The only reason Cassell is such a good fit is he’s had success with KG and Ray Allen before.
That said, he isn’t reliable as nobody knows when the injury bug will hit.
He is a better shooter than Rondo, particularlly from the line which is what will help in the 4th quarter. With a lead, you’re forced to foul one of Cassell, Allen, Pierce, Posey, or KG, which isn’t going to lead to many misses.
Rondo is the better all-around player at this point and has more to offer than Cassell whose scoring isn’t needed when KG, Pierce, and Allen are all in the lineup.
Frankly, Cassell’s shooting isn’t even that much of an asset as the team already had Eddie House coming off the bench. But at the very least, KG’s career year came with Cassell which makes him worth a flier.
Rashidi Said,
March 3, 2008 @ 6:08 pm
Jamaal Magloire sucks but at least he can rebound.
Barry was already part of the Spurs so he doesn’t count. Barry was hurt when he was waived and was going to struggle to get more minutes either way with a healthy Parker/Stoudamire, Ginobili/Finley, and Bowen/Udoka.
Guys like Tyronn Lue are non-factors, he’s gonna be getting whatever few PG mins don’t go to Kidd, Terry, or even JJ Barea.
Rudeboy Defender Said,
March 3, 2008 @ 11:31 pm
I can actually see Lue helping the Mavs. He is a terrific 3pt shooter (which the Mavs need), plus decent passer and defender. Mavs otherwise don’t have a backup point - Barea has been in the doghouse and you can even see Devean George (!) playing point. Terry has no court vision and is better suited to firing away and being relieved of all ballhandling duties.
Lue’s presence will also hopefully mean that George and Eddie Jones will stay glued to the bench. They’re horrible! I don’t see a need for them when Lue - Stack - Bass - (hopefully)Magloire are all competent reserves all with some offensive ability.
Zane Said,
March 4, 2008 @ 12:20 am
I like both of these signings for the Celtics. Both in my mind are no-brainers. There is no gamble here, they haven’t given up anything.
The point is that they needed a backup at the point and at centre and they have filled both needs. Nobody expects Brown or Cassell to put up big numbers, they are there to add further experience to the Celts playoff run. I don’t think Doc Rivers wants to mess with the starting lineup at this point in the season.
Who wants to see the ball in the hands of a rookie if it comes down to Game 7?
Dave Said,
March 5, 2008 @ 1:18 pm
The biggest beneficiary BY FAR is the Celtics.
PJ Brown is a guy that would start for most playoff teams. He will ad defense, leadership and great depth the the PF and C position.
Sam Cassell ads leadership but also is still a very effective PG….he would start for a lot of teams. Only question with Cassell is can he shift to be more of a passer….The team has enough offensive players and seems to need passing and defense….His 3PT shooting can always help but if he is someone who wants to focus on bringing offense to the game that is why they want him in a backup role. He will play when one of the big three (Garnett, Pierce, Allen) are on the bench or injured.
It seems clear the most logical teams in the finals are the LAKERS and the CELTICS.
Lakers will get even better when Bynum is back and the team is healthy and Mihm can at least be servicable in small minutes. Bynum and Gasol are going to offensively together average about 64% probably the highest of record for a PF/C combination. This post scoring is going to really open up the perimeter for 3PT shots and mid-range shots by Kobe and Kidd.
Some lists have HOUSTON as the best team in the league EVEN WITHOUT YAO MING. I don’t think this can hold up…They won 12 straight games with him…but wouldn’t do that without him…Mutumbo can MAYBE play 20MPG consistently and is the only big man….Unless Luis Scola can play 35 really really solid minutes per game, Battier can effectively play some PF, and other PF’s can really step up the team is over. Bobby Jacksons addition is great but that is not enough. The Rockets should have tried to lure PJ Brown as starting center or go after someone.
Melissa Said,
March 5, 2008 @ 2:04 pm
Sam and Brent are the ones who matter. We can forget about the others.
David Said,
March 5, 2008 @ 3:05 pm
I’ll pick the Pistons vs the Spurs.
You have Kidd playing for the Lakers ..Cuban might have something to say about that since he already pays Finley to play for the Spurs.
z3 Said,
March 7, 2008 @ 1:40 am
I think my biggest issue with this article is how success is defined. Teams that go out and sign mid season players are already playoff bound teams. In that, they are relatively successful, with a core nucleus of players that will take them to the playoffs. So for this reason I do not think it is fair to judge the worth of a mid season player by the amount of points they score or rebounds. Sam Cassel will probably not be a stat stuffer but very few would argue that the Celtics are in need of a back-up point guard. Mid season players bring intangible benefits that help their team. So if we cannot define success by box scores-how do we? I think you have to ask yourself; will the team perform better with the addition of the player (and it doesn’t need to be a huge improvement). I would try this rule to see if a mid level player makes sense to sign
1. Where do you predict the team to finish without signing the player?
2. Predict where the team will finish with the player
3. If the net amount of games added to the playoff schedule and the net revenue that these games produce does not equal or surpass the salary paid to the mid season player then the signing is not worth it.
Factors to consider: By adding this player how will the health of my team improve (decreased minutes for star player in final reg. season games), Chemistry i.e. will a seasoned vet provide leadership needed to guide a young team), Lock down defender for potential opponents star player, all of these small factors can give the team the small edge that will increase their stay in the playoffs and determine if the signing of the player was a success.
Steve Said,
March 9, 2008 @ 11:03 pm
Maybe you missed what Mike James and Lindsay Hunter did for the Pistons when they made it to the finals againest the Spurs . They where a HUGE spark off the bench .
Vito Said,
March 12, 2008 @ 4:18 pm
Bulls suck.
jack johnson Said,
March 28, 2008 @ 2:40 pm
Brevin Knight (Milwaukee) / 4.2 ppg, 3.4 apg, 20.2 mpg
That’s 11 ppg in 20.2 minutes. Not quite as bad as you make it out to be. Success isn’t necessarily statistical, by the way. If we judged playoff performance by stats, we’d all have as much basketball IQ as GM Isiah Thomas (responsible for post-season studs/contracts Jerome James, Jared Jeffries, and Malik Rose).