Still a bright future
I never was much of a math expert, but I know the difference between 4-0 and 7-8. One conveys dominance. The other conveys mediocrity.
Added together, they pretty much convey the current state of the Detroit Pistons, no longer dominant, or close to it, and bordering on that untenable state of being average in a league where it helps to be really good or really bad.
It’s sort of like applying to college. If you’ve got the money (really good), you can afford it. If you don’t (really bad), there’s scholarship money. But if you’re stick in the middle (going nowhere), you are toast.
This is not to imply that the newly reconfigured Pistons, with Allen Iverson and without Chauncey Billups, are toast. They’re more like zwieback. While we will continue to cut them some slack because of their big deal, they nonetheless appear to be a team that has recognized it has run its course and needs to retool.
I’ve always put Joe Dumars on the Mt. Rushmore of current GMs, where he trades top spots with San Antonio’s RC Buford. Detroit has made six straight trips to the conference finals. It has had seven straight 50-win seasons. That’s an accomplishment in and of itself. And, chances are, the Pistons would have rattled off another 50-plus wins this season had Dumars not pulled the trigger on the Iverson-Billups trade last month.
But my guess is that if you convinced Dumars to swallow some truth serum, he’d admit that he didn’t think the group that left training camp had enough to overtake the Celtics (or, maybe, even the Cavaliers) to get to the NBA Finals. Let’s face it, that group, one way or another, already had coughed up golden opportunities in 2006 (losing to Miami with the homecourt advantage), in 2007 (losing to Cleveland with the homecourt advantage and after taking a 2-0 lead) and in 2008 (losing to Boston after beating the Celtics on the road in Game 2 of the Eastern Conference Finals.)
Doing that again, or even failing to even get that far, was a distinct possibility this season for the Pistons, who have twice been flogged by the Celtics already (although, to their credit, they’ve also beaten the Lakers in Los Angeles, the Spurs in San Antonio, and the Cavs). They’ve already lost four home games – including one unmentionable, a 26-point humiliation to the hapless Timberwolves. They didn’t lose their fourth home game last year until Jan. 18 - and they lost only seven all season at the Palace.
Who knows how Dumars reached that decision, but I think it’s the right one. I don’t think the Pistons, even with Rodney Stuckey improving and Antonio McDyess back in the fold, had enough to beat the Celtics. I’m not sure they have enough to beat the Cavs, either. And given the height of the bar in Detroit, that prompted Dumars to do what he did.
He didn’t Knicks/Nets/Everyone Else it and pack it in with a big circle on 2010. He acquired a future Hall of Famer and financial flexibility down the road. In the meantime, he still has a competitive roster with possibilities, so that’s what makes the Pistons impossible to dismiss or ignore.
On the other hand… Iverson hasn’t been on a team which won a playoff series since 2003 and remains a difficult guy to accommodate. There simply is no one else like him, which can be good and bad… Rasheed Wallace appears to be putting a 42-cent stamp on more games than ever; this from a guy who submitted the ultimate no-show in critical Game 6 of the Eastern Conference Finals in 2008 (4 points, 5 fouls, 2-of-12 shooting). History may show that Larry Brown was the only coach who could penetrate the Inner Sheed. With Wallace’s contract up at the end of the season, you’d think he’d put the stamps in the drawer and just play.
But that makes sense. And, let’s face it, Michael Curry is a rookie head coach, with no previous head coaching experience, taking on a savvy group of veterans who know the drill. When’s the last time that worked? (OK, it almost worked for Dallas, but Avery Johnson wasn’t a real rookie).
The Pistons fell to 7-8 with Iverson following an embarrassing Sunday afternoon loss to the Knicks in New York, a game in which they fell behind by an astonishing 29 points. NBA rules dictated that Detroit be in the Big Apple the night before the game. Other than Atlanta, and possibly Golden State, there is no more worrisome city in which to arrive the night before a game than New York. Even more worrisome was the fact that the teams played a matinee.
But that was one loss. Let’s face it, the Pistons are a team in transition. You can’t write them off. But they’re also a team with options, which is what the Iverson-Billups deal was all about. Better to trade a player while he still has value, even if it might mean taking a step back before you go forward again. Just ask the Celtics or the Bulls how it works when everyone of import says good-bye at about the same time.
The Pistons no longer loom as the toughest test for the Celtics. That role, right now, belongs exclusively to the Cavaliers. By May, it could all be different, which is what Dumars might be hoping. But, either way, he’ll be in a position of strength when the season is over with both Iverson and Wallace potentially off the books.
And with what he has remaining on his roster, well, let’s just say it’s probably going to be a lot more than most anyone else will have in 2009 to offer marquee free agents. Or, perhaps, in 2010. As someone once noted, “you need to break a few eggs to make an omelet.” In other words, Dumars might end up losing the battle, a battle he really had no shot of winning anyway, but, in the end, he also just might end up winning the war.
sean from cayman islands Said,
December 9, 2008 @ 3:50 pm
i agree. JD has a smart hand here. so you win 45 games this season and ” only ” get to the second round, maybe. by the time the dust settles and sheed is gone ( he will be) and AI is also let go ( only makes sense to) , JD still had another winning season and now has roomand money to not get lebron but maybe two or 3! great players.
he’ll laugh last….wait and see.
greg Said,
December 9, 2008 @ 4:04 pm
This is reminiscence of the Kidd Harris trade of last year. One sided in favor of the Nuggets and the Pistons really have to realize that. The only thing that have save this futile effort of Joe D’s behalf is if they get Bosh in 2010.
Kevin Said,
December 9, 2008 @ 5:21 pm
I’ve been a Pistons fan for 30 years and Joe Dumars is the most overrated GM in the league. He hired a friend in Michael Curry because he was cheap - Not qualified to be a NBA head coach. Dumars is living off the 2004 title and has yet to follow that success.
david Said,
December 9, 2008 @ 5:52 pm
Whoah thats Chuck Person standing next to A.I. in that picture!
Zane Said,
December 9, 2008 @ 7:10 pm
I agree with Kevin totally. Dumars is overrated and being held so high because of the 04 title.
Dumars has been mostly solid, but totally ballsed up the most important draft in recent history. Pistons could have had Wade, Carmelo or Bosh to name just 3 players of about 20 drafted after Darko who are much better.
Darko was totally unproven, averaging about 12ppg and little else in Europe?! If there was going to be a bust in this draft it was always going to be Darko!
Even with their 2nd pick in that draft they could have got Josh Howard, Leandro Barbosa, Kendrick Perkins or Jason Kopono over Carlos Delfino.
Imagine the lineup of Billups, Wade, Prince, Howard, Wallace. With Rip and Dice off the bench with the 2nd unit which could maybe include Okur and Ben Wallace. If this draft wasn’t such a disaster, Pistons would be an absolute juggernaut right now, offensively and defensively.
Brown was a bad fire, Flip was a bad hire, and now Curry is an even worse hire. Curry is a rookie leader on a team of vets. Sheed was a gift trade which is what completed the puzzle to bring the 04 title.
Omar Aberilla Said,
December 9, 2008 @ 8:17 pm
Iverson still has enough left in the tank to make this a meaningful season. And I mean making it at least to the Eastern Conference Finals. Having a 7-8 record since his arrival doesn’t paint the whole story. It’s still too early in the season. You’re all giving props to Billups, deservingly so, but he has a tougher situation out West with the current Nuggets lineup. So in spite of his inspired play to date, his Nuggets still won’t make it past the first round. Yet they have been brilliant so far and appears to continue that trend in the regular season. As for the Pistons, they might end up having a mediocre record, at least to their standards, but they have a really big chance of sneaking back in the Eastern Finals. The Cavs still don’t have reliable finishers. I don’t even trust the great LeBron at this point. He’s either making or missing his shots especially at the charity stripe. If there’s a dark horse in this race, it has to be the Heat. Now, that’s a team to watch out for with Wade’s capability of providing crunch time heroics.
tom Said,
December 10, 2008 @ 12:38 am
the pistons can still trade AI for a true pst player before the deadline and be the team to beat. Guys like Stuckey, maxiel, johnson, and afflalo will only get better.
Curry needs to create some DEFENSE, cuz the pistons have had none all season.
Curry need to get AI, and Rasheed playing good and consistent.
Detroit hasjust as much talent as boston and Clevland, but no team identity, and chemistry.
januko Said,
December 10, 2008 @ 5:30 am
Let us be patient with this one. The season is still early. We may never know if the Pistons will catch fire nearing or after the All-Star week. Even if they will finish 8th for the playoff spot, the Pistons will still have the savvy to compete with the top Eastern teams. The number of wins for the season in my opinion will not count whether the Billups/Iverson trade is a success or a failure. The Pistons are all about the postseason. So, we will be waiting for that.
I will never count them off yet. I am no Nostradamus but I believe the Pistons will be catching fire eventually.
Peaches Said,
December 10, 2008 @ 8:07 am
Much as I love to watch Iverson, I’d say if anyone’s overrated in Detroit, it’s him and not Dumars.
On another topic from the article, what’s with this? — “Other than Atlanta, and possibly Golden State, there is no more worrisome city in which to arrive the night before a game than New York.”
I live in Atlanta, and have no idea what he’s referring to. The Gold Club is long gone.
Fred Said,
December 10, 2008 @ 8:49 am
“I never was much of a math expert, but I know the difference between…” changing Iverson for Billups (1 on 1 trade), and changing Billups AND McDyess for Iverson.
Billups proved his a better fit for Denver than Iverson. Great for him and Denver.
For Detroit, it’s a different story. They changed Billups for Iverson, but they also lost McDyess. Wait some games with McDyess back, and we will be more able to say if Detroit did the right move.
Henry Said,
December 10, 2008 @ 8:55 am
Joe is great at trading existing players who have been in the league and also knowing when to fold. We all tend to forget when traded for Billups, Wallace, Sheed, Dice, Hamilton they were all struggling at other teams, undervalued or not prohibitively expensive and all eventually turned into what they are with the Pistons. AI is a different trade just as Peter May describes. As for drafts yes he did not well in 04 but Prince and Stuckey were great pick ups….all GMs have mixed records at best in drafting and apart from the Darko debacle his record is better than avg I wld say. What I think he has had a hard time with is selecting coaches but apart from the superb to tier coaches who eventually want to have a far bigger say in the organization at large (Brown, Sloan, Riley, Jackson, etc) who is out there really? Which GMs have done a great job over time by bringing new coaches that fit the team at the exact right time when the availability of great coaches is limited at any given time? Joe is clearly one the best GMs out there and Detriot fans should be thankful.
Mavericks fan Said,
December 10, 2008 @ 9:03 am
It’s too early to decide that the Nuggets get the better of the trade. AI just need to have chemistry with the whole Pistons roster. And they can still finish with the top 5 in the Eastern Conference. While on the side of Nuggets I think they can past the 1st round but that’s all for this season. If AI will get chemistry to all the players especially Rip, Tay, Sheed, Stuckey, they can win the Eastern Finals and eventually the Championship. They just need time though they lost again tonight to the Wizards. Just hung there Pistons fans, be patient and believe to the Pistons.
aaron Said,
December 10, 2008 @ 9:45 am
This group has came up short a lot they had ran their course, chauncy had the best trade value , Joe dumars is far from perfect but is a good GM, he makes sure all positions are accounted for from point guard to Center the team is missing 2 things that it has always been missing 1) A leader who can take control and has all others respect Kobe, Cris paul, Paul pierce
2) someone that leads by example and compels everyone else to step up intensity via KG-Boston, joe johnson
Smoove aka The Voice of Reason Said,
December 10, 2008 @ 11:02 am
Be patient Pistons fans!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Chemistry is obviously off since the trade but saying Joe D is the most over rated GM in the leauge is blasphemous. 6 str8 Eastern Confrence appearances speaks for itself. People talk about the “infamous” 2003 Draft when we took Sam Bowie ooops I meant Darko, but didn’t we get the Larry O’Brien Trophy?????? Then Joe D righted his wrong and traded Darko away for Kelvin Cato and the draft pick that eventually netted us Rodney Stuckey.
Listen, nobody loved Chauncey more than me but I see the big picture. A good point was made in the article about the end of the era for Boston and Chicago when everybody left at the same time. What wasn’t mentioned was Detroit’s breakdown after Zeke retired. Joe D experienced that once and he didn’t want to go through that again. We now have options this off season and in 2010. We probably wont win the LeBron sweepstakes but I will gladly take the consolation prize of Joe J, Amare, D Wade, CB4 etc……
The BIG TRADE was a chess move that ALLLLLL Pistons fans will be happy about in the future, mark my words…….. Deeeeeeeetroit Basketball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sasha Vujacic Said,
December 10, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
OK Everybody needs to calm down. Life for a pistons fan aint going swimmingly at the moment. heres my take…
1) Allen Iverson is not doing what he wants, Ever since he got to the pistons he hasnt been leading the team in shot attempts every night. This is not his game. He is trying to adjust his game too much and/or Michael Curry is not incorporating him into the offense. Joe Dumars wants this team to be dismantled. Therefore why are the Pistons still trying to win playing Piston Ball when they cant play piston ball without Chauncey. Iverson is more gifted offensively then any other Piston by far so why not let him carry you, make sure his role is known as the star player on this team not some role player. Michael Curry will be fired this season if Joe Dumars wanted this trade to work. However Dumars could be offering a smokescreen by looking to stay competitive whilst jostling for position in the 2010 free agent class namely one Chris Bosh.
Chris Bosh should not come to the pistons if they are playing this type of basketball which needs all parts of the machine working in harmony. Pistons dont have the right parts anymore and are only bringing down Iverson who can’t win not being 1st scoring option, well not on the pistons atleast.
2) Or Iverson is over the hill and is unable to contribute like how we once knew ‘the answer”. Hope this is not the case but maybe the hard way he has been playing has affected to this.
Solution bring him off the bench and let him do whatever he wants to do while he is on the court. The pistons can still maintain there starting lineup playing there normal brand of basketball however playing Iverson off the bench with high energy guys who are capable of shooting and running will be extremely beneficial to the pistons. Afflalo, Hermann, Maxiell on the court with Iverson and let him do whatever he wants. Like if he wants to show up and pull an antoine walker show, let him. If Joe D wants to give this a chance to work out
gunit Said,
December 10, 2008 @ 12:57 pm
the problem with the pistons begans and ends with michael curry!!!!!!! this guy simply cant coach!!! pistons lost to the wizards and were up by 20 in the second quarter.
Cordell Taylor Said,
December 10, 2008 @ 12:59 pm
The Iverson trade was for flexibility and cap room, plus the gamble that Iverson could fit in and give them a strong playoff run, one last hurrah before Sheed leaves at the end of the year. Both guys will be off the roster and allow Stuckey to develop next year, make some runs at guys like Lebron, Bosh, Wade. Joe Dumars is all about building for the future now. He can trade Rip and T Prince to get younger or acquire talent for the next Big Five in Detroit.
Transition has to come in Detroit and its better to get value now than lose out and get nothing. He has a tough job of rebuilding while not looking like he is rebuilding. He is not an overrated GM, the Pistons have been competitive for several years and won a title, they are always in the mix and its because he has made good moves (Larry Brown, Flip Saunders). The Darko error was one mistake….thats it.
Adamantelope Said,
December 10, 2008 @ 3:12 pm
How can you talk about Dumars without mentioning the Darko pick? It has to be mentioned that he made a big mistake in a fairly loaded draft. Perhaps the difference between a one year wonder and a dynasty.
Chicago Jim Said,
December 10, 2008 @ 4:36 pm
I want to support Curry but it appears he’s in over his head! Pistons are consistently inconsistent, and the hunger sure doesn’t look like its there!
Zane Said,
December 10, 2008 @ 7:08 pm
Pistons were pretty average before they got Rasheed Wallace. This was a lucky trade because Sheed wanted out of Atlanta ASAP, and was basically a gift trade. Full credit to Joe D for pulling it off tho.
But you can’t mention Dumars as a GM without bringing up the 03 draft. They could have Wade or Bosh and Josh Howard right now, not waiting for 2010 or rebuilding, they would be a dynasty right now. Darko was always a big gamble, and Delfino was never going to be a game breaker. These were flat out AWFUL choices.
He has made solid moves over the years, but this draft was an ABSOLUTE DISASTER. The difference between a dynasty and a condender to get out of the east. Hiring Flip who had coached the T-Wolves to good records and first round exits in the playoffs, was not a good hire for a pistons team who looked like a lock for the finals.
Now we have Curry who has never been a head coach before? And a trade for Iverson. I love watching AI play, but where ever he goes - teams are always better when he leaves. He’s not good for team chemistry with his style of play. He needs the ball to much and shoots a too low percentage, for the TEAM to play solid, effective basketball.
Joe D has made just as many mistakes (particulary at the wrong times) as he has made good moves and its the difference between a dynasty and a one ring wonder. He is definately an above average GM but is still overrated.
bills Said,
December 11, 2008 @ 9:25 am
Joe turned the disasterous 2003 pick into Rodney Stuckey. People forget that when they talk about the Darko draft.
He finds a way to cut his losses and get something positive from his mistakes.
The Billups/AI trade may not work this year but the Pistons were stalled anyway. Next year the Pistons can start reloading.
People leave dumb ass comments Said,
December 11, 2008 @ 10:08 am
Zane, you know nothing about basketball. You try to sound like you know what your saying but a real hoop head knows your comments are flat out dumb. Somebody has to hold the bloggers accountable. LOL
Jay Said,
December 11, 2008 @ 11:08 am
Detroit has a lot of problems. They have two great players in Iverson and Wallace that disrupt the natural roles of a basketball team. AI isn’t quite a point guard but his team needs him to play PG. Rasheed is a PF but he wants to play even smaller by shooting three-pointers. Sheed is a good shooter but it’s absurd for him to jack up threes without someone to rebound.
Rip Hamilton needs a PG to get him the ball in his comfort zones at the right times. If Iverson starts then that’s less likely to happen because that’s not his type of game. He needs to dominate the ball to get into rhythm. The crazy thing is there are a lot of problems.
However, their problems give them an advantage with the matchup problems they create. It’s tough to guard an Iverson, Prince, Wallace or Hamilton. Detriot has to figure out how to take advantage of that quick. A big part of that is getting them to move the ball while allowing Iverson to create as well. This might be Iverson’s last shot at a championship. Does he have what it takes to be the PG that has haunted him his entire career? It’s a tall order.
LB Said,
December 12, 2008 @ 11:10 am
It didn’t take very long to realize that Allen Iverson was not being welcomed with open arms by the Detroit Pistons. With all the fanfare and accolades going Chauncey Billups way, you almost have to feel sorry for the A.I. Within a matter of days, the grumbling from Rip Hamilton about his own minutes began. In one way it is perfectly understandable. Iverson was an intruder in their “almost” perfect little world. On the other hand, it makes me want to slap them stupid. Suck it up and make it work. All this me, my minutes, my numbers over there in that locker room is annoying. Team spirit seems to have gone down the drain. Since the trade, the numbers speak for themselves. Pistons 11-8, Nuggets 13-4. The return of Antonio McDyess hasn’t seemed to restore order, as they have lost 3 straight since his return. How the Pistons sort their way through this big ole mess at this point is anyone’s guess. The players checking their egos at the door may be a start, but I wouldn’t bet on that happening anytime soon.
Stephanie Said,
December 13, 2008 @ 4:03 pm
Detroit still has a chance to have a deep run into the playoffs. I agree with the writer above the offense is not conducive to AI being productive. What good does it do to have him in your lineup playing like an average NBA player. You could get someone else to do that. Curry has not figured out how to get the most out of AI or this lineup. They play too slow. I could see if this pace was helping their defense but it’s not. Pick up the pace. Unlease AI. He is passing way too much and trade Sheed. Enough is enough. Either you are going to show up everyday or you’re out of here. Luckily Hamilton has finally gotten over losing his girlfriend and is playing better.
Zane Said,
December 13, 2008 @ 11:17 pm
how about leaving an insightful comment on basketball rather than anonymusly slagging off strangers on the internet?
tossers like you should be banned from these blogs.
you don’t think Pistons would be in this mess with Wade and Josh Howard right now? well then you don’t know sh*t about ball either.
Lexo Said,
December 14, 2008 @ 2:19 pm
Listen DP fans…I’m a die hard Jazz fan but when I think of a team that through the years have played true five man basketball, with no true superstar, I think of Detroit. Y’all punked the dream team Lakers and have been in the mix with mad respect every year…Trust in Dumars! Yes, this year will be a long shot at best to go deep in the playoffs, but it will be fun to watch because this is the type of team that will reap benefits from playoff Ball where D is king! JD knows how to put players in position to win, it’s just that AI is a basketball enigma that is hard to work into a team concept. Bosh is such a stud, if D town can head fake for wade or LBJ and get CB4…watch out…can you imagine the D with Bosh and TP, not to mention Maxielle and Stucky comin up??
space Said,
December 15, 2008 @ 1:16 pm
iverson is just like terrell owens. great player but eventually he damages your franchise. no where near as close, but he really doesn’t fit any team right now. he is an undersized point who plays like a two guard. only a real veteran coach with a name could change his game. iverson will probably never see a ring until he comes off the bench as a gunner a la vinnie johnson.
the pistons still have PLENTY of talent. the playoffs are always a different story. do no write them off. DO NOT write them as nba or even eastern conference champions, but do not write them off just yet.
Reading is Great! Monday’s NBA News, Rumors, and Weekend Updates - EmptyTheBench.com Said,
December 15, 2008 @ 4:23 pm
[...] All-Star voters this year. - FanHouse - Andre Miller might be following Mo Cheeks out the door. - HoopsHype - No matter what happens with AI, the future is bright in Detroit. - Bright Side of the Sun - The [...]
Crazy people everywhere Said,
December 16, 2008 @ 7:51 am
Look I will keep Joe D over the GM in sacramento, or the bucks, or the clippers, or just about any other GM there is.
Look hind sight is 20/20, yes could of been better draft picks, heck we all were like what the heck are you doing on draft nights, but why not gamble I mean come on cut some slack look at the Sam Bowi over Michael Jordan draft or the Olawokandi draft, etc.. there is alot of players who went #1 but never accomplished anything in the league other than lacing up their shoes which were already laced.
Frank Said,
December 16, 2008 @ 2:53 pm
Motown will be ok….Joe D is great and by getting stuckey in the darko trade will live up to a d wade that can play both the 1 and the 2 and not turn the ball over 50 times a game…. the problem her and the reason DP are not going to get pass the cavs or celtics is that they have no low post presence. j max solid but is under sized to start and the only other option other than mycdess is kwame who has turned out to be more disapointing in detroit then anywhere else. Sheed needs a banger in there to do the things on D he dont do when he doesnt show up….. I say hang tough, expect 2 average seasons and wait till we land bosh or amare in 2010
Doogie Said,
December 21, 2008 @ 10:58 pm
Oh boy, it’s tough to watch this current squad! i guess we’re all going to have to get used to watching close games with teams like Milwaukee, Chicago, Indiana, Washington, Philly, etc.
Reality is that 6 straight ECF is a great accomplishment; however, with that team, they only won ONCE and didn’t have the fortitude to get it done in the “loss” years of 2006 D.Wade, 2007 LBJ and, of course, 2008 Celts. What, did we honestly think that we could triumph against Bos or Clev in 2009 ??? Seriously ??
Time to re-tool and we should all be thankful that we have Mr. Dumars on the scene; the guy knows the game a little better than the average GM and a hell of a lot better than the rest of us knucklehead fans.
Doogie Said,
December 21, 2008 @ 11:06 pm
Today’s game at Atlanta was a tell-tale game by the way. When Rip got “hit” in the paint, while going to the rim, and was laying on the court, wiggling in pain, he then got the big flagrant Tech by Rodney Mott and was gone! Currie showed no sympathy for Rip as Mike Abdenour was attending to him on the bench. All the while, A.I. is sitting on the bench looking disgusted by the fact that he’s not playing the last 5 or 6 minutes of a close game.
Currie’s told them and I think he’s had enough with their “bad call by the refs” attitude and that they’ve got to shrug all of that off and just play. They’re soft, they whine, they expect calls that aren’t coming and they feel “screwed” constantly by the refs. Time to change the attitude around this team. Wonder how to do that?
Bye Rip……Sheed……Allen……oh, and by the way, do you think those guys…Sheed, Ben and Rip were a really good influence on Darko when he came into the league…..not likely.