In sickness and in health
I wrote a Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan feature for Lindy’s Pro Basketball 2008 Preview, the magazine that I have edited for the past 15 years. I sat down with Jordan for about 20 minutes over the offseason, which is the basis for the article, titled “In Michael’s Image.” I asked Jordan about Kobe Bryant and the loud criticism directed at the Lakers star for being a Jordan wanna be, an imitator.
Jordan and Bryant are close, which perhaps explains why Jordan said he doesn’t see what all the big fuss is about. After all, human behavior is mimetic. That’s what humans do. They copy and ape another.
Jordan acknowledged Bryant is the best of a generation of players who have tried to be like Mike.
“But how many people lighted the path for me?” Jordan asked. “That’s the evolution of basketball. There’s no way I could have played the way I played if I didn’t watch David Thompson and guys prior to me. There’s no way Kobe could have played the way he’s played without watching me play. So, you know, that’s the evolution of basketball. You cannot change that.”
Phil Jackson and Tex Winter, who coached Jordan in Chicago and Bryant in Los Angeles, have long marveled at the alpha male nature of both players. What critics perhaps still don’t yet grasp is that the issue involves personality types.
It’s impossible to copy a personality type. That’s a genetic trait. Copying Jordan’s physical abilities would be nearly impossible to do. Then, to duplicate his uber mind-set? Such a constitution is rare indeed.
“I tend to think how very much they’re alike,” Winter explained to me. “They both display tremendous reaction, quickness and jumping ability. Both have a good shooting touch. Some people say Kobe is a better shooter, but Michael really developed as a shooter as he went along. I don’t know if Kobe is a better shooter than Michael was at his best.”
Forget about jumping as high or shooting as well, who could work as hard as Jordan? Who’s willing to live a life of day-to-day, unbending grind? Who has the fierceness? The relentless desire that wears everyone else on the team out?
Jackson always pointed out that Jordan’s personality was great for winning games, but it tended to grind on the teammates around him.
Jordan sees these traits in Bryant and admits to being more than a casual observer. He’s fascinated by Bryant’s career, even able to relive some of his own experience by watching Kobe. After all, he too played for Jackson in Winter’s same triangle offense.
Perhaps nothing emphasizes the alpha male traits they share better than their similar reaction to injury.
Bryant, of course, was diagnosed with a torn ligament and an avulsion fracture last season. That means that the ligament pulled away from the digit and took a chunk of bone with it.
The injury isn’t so much continually painful as it is a source of numbness, unless someone strikes it during a game. Then it can become quite painful. It immediately raised questions about how the injury would affect Bryant’s shooting, a question that gets bandied about on the Internet.
Bryant could have had surgery during the season, but he wanted to keep playing.
He could have had it over the summer, but he wanted to play in the Olympics.
He could have it late in the offseason, but he has a serious agenda for the Lakers for 2009. That agenda doesn’t allow him to miss the early months of the season.
So he’s going to play on.
“I have always felt that I can still focus and play at a high level even through various injuries,” Bryant explained on his website. “That’s really just part of the game. When the doctors told me recovery from a procedure could be 12 weeks, I just decided now was not the time to have surgery. What it really came down to for me is that I just didn’t want to miss any time ‘punching the clock’ for the Lakers, given all we are trying to accomplish as a team this NBA season. I am just really excited and looking forward to being there with the guys when camp opens in a few weeks. That is a real bonding process and if I can avoid being on the sidelines for that, God willing, I will.”
Old-timers will recall that just three games into his second NBA season, Jordan suffered a broken navicular tarsal bone in his left foot, an injury that had altered or ended the careers of several NBA players. He missed the next 64 games, then insisted on coming back to play at the end of the season, even though doctors explained that he risked perhaps a 15 percent chance of ending his career.
Jordan didn’t care. He was determined to play.
“That’s the way Mike was,” Mark Pfeil, who was then the Bulls’ trainer, told me. “If he didn’t think something was gonna hurt him, he’d focus past it and play. Sprains, groin pulls, muscle spasms, flu, Michael’s first question always was, ‘Is it gonna hurt me to play?’ If I told him no, it was gone. He’d focus past it.”
“I didn’t want to watch my team go down the pits,” Jordan explained. “I thought I was healthy enough to contribute something.”
With Jordan back in the lineup, the Bulls went 6-7 over their last 13 games and despite a 30-52 finish somehow made the playoffs. In the first round of the playoffs, the Bulls encountered the Boston Celtics, who were on their way to their 16th world championship. Boston swept Chicago, but not before Jordan set the NBA abuzz with a 63-point performance in a double-overtime loss on in Boston Garden.
“That’s God disguised as Michael Jordan,” Larry Bird said afterward.
Critics want to make much of Bryant’s decision as some sort of PR move, or perhaps yet another attempt to mimic Jordan.
Actually, it’s pretty simple. Bryant and his Lakers got their butts kicked by Boston in the league championship series. Bryant and his team lost Game 4 after holding a huge lead.
Winter, a longtime Bryant mentor and observer, noted that he outcome was a huge setback for someone with the stated goal of becoming the game’s greatest player.
For Bryant, the agenda is to get into training camp with his team to get ready to compete in 2009. He wants to win, and he can’t do that sitting out in September, October and November. He’s got a young team that he needs to lead, to drive.
After all, that’s what alpha males do.
John Iturralde Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 8:49 am
Kobe is good, but Jordan is a legend.
One question though, why is MJ still ain’t voted yet in the HALL OF FAME?
Michael Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 9:03 am
Can Kobe will the Lakers to a championship with the current roster of players or are other personnel moves necessary.
Another small forward and or swing type of guard who can get and hopefully make their own shot might be needed; (similar to Ron Harper or Glenn Rice.
Tex, thanks for all that you have given to the game.
Best wishes from lifelong Laker fan since they moved to L.A. for the 1960 season and a USC graduate in the class of 1971.
Michael
Jesse Potts Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 9:21 am
I do not think it is fair for people to take a swipe at Kobe for his decision. After all, were they chastising him for playing in the Olympics? Comparisons are a natural part of sports as it helps us to gauge where a player is at or going when based on what others have done. The strongest players will always stand out and take the most criticism. Jordan got and it and walked all over it, now Bryant does it and the result will be the same. They are 2 different players and will have 2 different legacies no matter what. But I am glad to live in the era of KB24!
Rashidi Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 9:32 am
“One question though, why is MJ still ain’t voted yet in the HALL OF FAME?”
A player has to be retired for 6 seasons before being eligible for the ballot.
Jordan becomes eligible and inducted next year, along with John Stockton, and David Robinson. Tim Hardaway also becomes eligible and has a shot. Shawn Kemp I believe doesn’t because he’s still playing in Europe (although his prime was much shorter and he doesn’t deserve enshrinement before Artis Gilmore).
Rashidi Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 9:57 am
While we’re here
HOF eligibility
2009: Michael Jordan, John Stockton, David Robinson, Tim Hardaway?
2010: Karl Malone, Scottie Pippen
2011: Reggie Miller, Vlade Divac?
2012: Toni Kukoc?
2013: Gary Payton
2014: Chris Webber?, Penny Hardaway? (also: Alonzo Mourning and Dikembe Mutombo if they don’t come back for next season)
It gets pretty thin after 2010. Vlade and Kukoc have a chance when you look at their influences on international basketball (Vlade much more influential than Kukoc, though Kukoc did also win 3 rings and 6th man award as the #3 scorer on those dominant Bulls teams - worse players are in the hall coughBillBradley).
Active future HoFs
PG: Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups, Tony Parker, Chris Paul?
SG: Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Manu Ginobili
SF: LeBron James, Paul Pierce, Grant Hill, Carmelo Anthony
PF: Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand?
C: Shaquille O’Neal, Ben Wallace, Dwight Howard, Amare Stoudemire, Yao Ming
Rashidi Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 9:59 am
I somehow forgot Dwyane Wade. Also put a question mark next to Grant Hill.
Lupe Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 10:28 am
I am starting a campaign for the WORM!!! Dennis Rodman needs to be in the HOF, 5 rings, 2X DPOTY, Multi-Defensive 1st team, scored Madonna/Carmen Electra(if that counts for anything), and he’s the greatest Rebounder so far the NBA has ever seen. Sure the man is a bit of a Freakshow, but he deserves to be in the Hall.
I like your list Rashidi; I think Webber stands a better chance than Penny in making the HOF though. Also, it takes big cajones to put off surgery til’ next summer. I personally would have gotten it, this Laker team is strong enough in my opinion to stay afloat in the Western Conference. Kudos for Bryant for his sacrifice.
ALdsTaR Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 11:18 am
rashidi, why did you put a question mark next to chris paul???
anyway
will steve francis come into the hall of fame to??
he was a great player but when he left the magic he went downwards.
i still believe he earns a spot with the numbers he put up in the past
hope he can get back to his old form, rockets would be unstoppable(until they face the lakers)
peace
Lakers Champions 08/09
Kobe MVP 08/09 Season
Bynum M.I.P 08/09
!!!!!!!!!!
Terence Tate Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 11:18 am
This article really hits the nail on the head, Kobe isn’t necessarily mimicing Jordan, basically he is the Jordan of his era. I live in Chicago, so naturally I give Jordan the nob, but I love watching Kobe play. I hope they win the championship this year. I think Kobe has learned how to play agressive and still be an effective team mate. As a GREAT scorer I think he should look to score most of the time and then pass when the defense dictates that passing is the best option.
The News Coverage Network » Blog Archive » Jordan Speaks on the Evolution of Hoops Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 11:19 am
[...] Sporting Blog Choice quote coming from His Airness himself in an interview with Ronald Lazenby. At various points in his career, Kobe’s been grilled about his perceived [...]
Carter Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 11:47 am
I cant believe this dude thinks Penny, Ben the bust Wallace and, Yao ill never win a ring Ming are future hall of famers thats too funny. Ginobili is good but far from a hof to. (Rashidi) do you even watch basketball did you see how the ROOKIE Rodney Stuckey played in Billups absence last year Billups is washed up my guess is he’ll be done in Detriot before Christmas hes a good role player at best.
SLAM ONLINE | » Jordan Discusses the Kobe Comparisons Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 12:13 pm
[...] acknowledged Bryant is the best of a generation of players who have tried to be like [...]
bballer Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 12:34 pm
this is probably one of the greatest eras in basketball. we are witnessing probably the best small forward of all time in lebron. top 5 sg in kobe. one of the best pg’s of all time in kidd, cp3 and nash. the most dominant centre of all time in shaq and the greatest power forward of all time in tim duncan. whoever says the current status of the nba is not as good as in the past does not know anything about basketball.
weaksauce Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 12:58 pm
Jordan can’t be voted in to the HOF yet is because he is not eligible yet. He has to wait i believe 5-7 years after his last NBA (retirement) game before he can be eligible
Jax Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 1:18 pm
with regard to the issue. i think that Kobe is similar to Jordan in many ways, not just the desire to win, at least from what i saw in last year’s championship. Jordan would never allow his Bulls to be dismantled just like that. Kobe? he was simply non-existent during the Finals. but other than that, he is the closest thing to MJ.
i agree with one fellow that Dennis Rodman should be inducted into the Hall of Fame. his contributions to the game is unparalleled.
@Carter
i think that Yao Ming would one day make it to the Hall of Fame. I think that before his career ends, he would win at least a championship.
Grant Hill deserves to be in the HOF.
Jax Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
i don’t think that Ben Wallace deserves to be in the HOF!
Giant T Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 1:42 pm
It completely blows my mind that Kobe continues to get props and camparisons to the GOAT, when none of his numbers back it up. People continually call Kobe the best player in the world right now, yet no one has anything to back it up with. It seems like Kobe’s the greatest just because he is, and doesn’t need a good reason for it. To me, I think the main thing that keeps Kobe from being the greatest in the league is his intelligence on the court. The fact is his shot selection is pretty bad. The guy’s gonna double Jordan’s 15 year career 3pt attempts in about a year while shooting only 1.4% better. I mean why does the guy shoot so many 3’s when he doesn’t even shoot it that well, and also when he possesses one of the deadliest midrange shots?
If you make a list of the greatest players in basketball history as far as scorers, I’ll gaurantee that over 90% of them shot a better percentage and had a more efficient game that Kobe.
And as far as the media hype about Kobe’s defense. Ok, he’s a very good on ball defender, but when’s someone going to point out that he’s a poor off ball defender? I mean I see the guy get burned off the ball fairly often.
When I look at numbers and accomplishments, there’s no one close to Jordan. The best player since Jordan really isn’t even Kobe, it’s Wade. Wade’s numbers and accomplishments are pretty astonishing for only 3-1/2 healthy seasons. If Wade isn’t plagued by injuries for the rest of his career, he really has a legitimate shot at having numbers comparable to Jordan’s. And Lebron has the physical ability to be right up there too.
SteveFrancis??? Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 1:42 pm
Did some dude actually talk about Steve Francis going into the HOF, or coming back to form this season? What a joke. Wow.
Giant T Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 1:55 pm
bballer is right on about the current state of the NBA. We got the greatest athletes, the league is runned well, and it’s getting worldwide.
ifokust Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
Vince Carter a HOFamer???? I don’t think so.
Huw Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 2:07 pm
Dennis Rodman definitely should be, dude led the NBA in rebounding for 7 seasons straight or something silly like that.
what bballer said is very true. We have some immense talent in the NBA at the moment, I think the general idea about the NBA not being as good as the olden days is thrown about a bit by past timers of the NBA. The late 80’s/early 90’s will also be considered by many to be great because of how much basketball blew up around the world. This being due to the Commisioner’s brilliant globalisation of the NBA and the involvement of NBA players in the 92 olympics. Other reasons of its popularity were due to the difference in the game being played. Rules of hand checking being fouls etc have been criticised as protecting the star players - so the 90’s will always be considered the best.
However you do make a very good point and Tim Duncan is definitely the best power forward of all time Shaq being in the top 5, as is kobe, lebron being a different kind of animal in the three spot compared to the likes of earlier sf’s who could be accused of just standing around shooting 3s all day -being Bird and Mullin (although anyone in their right mind should understand that isn’t true) and some great point guards. There is a lot to be thankful for in todays game and to look forward to with new franchises and some seriously good playing on West AND East, no one can take a night off, you’re always going to be in for a tough game.
adfasfwe Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 2:30 pm
come on, Vlade? Toni Kukoc? even Penny doesn’t belong in HOF
Nikeballer32 Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 2:35 pm
Kobe is better than jordan in many ways… who did jordan play with in the 90’s than what kobes playin with now?? best defender in the 90’s to guard jordan.. byron russell look at all the great defenders now
Chart3 Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 2:39 pm
Giant T, read what Tex Winter had to say about Kobe’s shot selection:
…It will probably surprise Bryant’s critics even more to learn that Winter said that his critical examination of game tape shows that Bryant’s shot selection is quite good: “Actually, for the most part, he’s not forcing up a lot of bad shots. When he gets hot, he does take shots that would be questionable for other players. But a lot of the shots he’s taken go in.” After all, while some aspects of shot selection are universal–running the shot clock down at the end of the quarter to get the last shot and deny the other team a scoring opportunity–other aspects of shot selection depend on the skill set of the player who is taking the shot (and the skill sets of the players who he would be passing to if he did not shoot)….
http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/2008/09/michael-jordan-and-tex-winter-discuss.html
Sam Thukral Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 5:36 pm
Anyone who says Jordan would have never let his team be dismantled the way that Kobe let the Lakers down in the Boston series never watched Jordan play against the Pistons…..or the year he came back against Orlando…..It’s not a matter of Jordan letting his team down, Kobe letting his team down….its a matter of the mental toughness of the TEAM……Kobe can do all he wants, but if hes being defended by a box and one, he needs SOMEONE to hit an outside shot….in the case of last years finals, it had to be the 3 or 4…..watch the start of game 4, where Odom was hitting outside shots…..the lane opened up, swing passes didn’t get slapped away, and, most importantly, they were able to run back and contest shots……its a TEAM game, and all a great superstar can do is make the shots that are given to him, and pass of to the open shot someone else has.
24hRx Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 7:57 pm
When could Rodman get in the HOF?
Jordan Speaks on the Evolution of Hoops Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 8:39 pm
[...] quote coming from His Airness himself in an interview with Ronald Lazenby. At various points in his career, Kobe’s been grilled about his perceived [...]
Dacre Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 8:53 pm
This article actually lived my appreciation for Kobe as a player somewhat - I’ve always found him to be the player I love to hate….now, I wish him well for the coming season. Just hope he doesn’t get hurt beyond repair. He’s putting everything on the line for this season it seems.
Kukoc is one of my favourite players of all time. But a HOF’er? A bit of a stretch I think.
Lupe Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 9:04 pm
Rodman could get in now; Dennis Johnson needs to be enshrined as well. 9 defensive team selections, Multiple rings, 2-All NBA selections(1-1st, 1-2nd) Finals MVP, and he’s a 5x Allstar. He’s just as qualified as Rodman to get in my opinion.
Also, in regards to Jordan, they should make an exception, and enshrine him now at this moment. It’s going to happen just like the sun rises in the morning, and it’d save them time deliberating on one of the greatest b-ball careers.
Snoopy2006 Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 9:50 pm
Chart3 got it right. Giant T, I’m sure you consider yourself a basketball expert, but I hope you’ll understand if I take someone like Tex Winter’s analysis over yours. He’s a little bit more proven than you.
imnobody Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 10:38 pm
the dude who thinks Steve Francis should be in the HOF must be a jr. higher…LOL
Arthur Said,
September 17, 2008 @ 11:56 pm
First of all, Penny Hardaway has ZERO shot of getting into the HOF. Yao will get in…he will have 10-15 All-star appearances, 3-5 1st team NBA, etc…that gets him in.
Tim Hardaway…great player, but no way HOF material. Never came close to winning anything and was never the unquestioned best player on his own team.
I think Kukoc has a better chance to get in the HOF than Vlade. I think Kukoc gets in…remember it is the “Basketball HOF” not the NBA HOF.
Of the current stars I think (and I will take some flak for this) that Wade won’t get in. Neither will Carmelo. Wade is a walking injury and his style of play will not let him be effective into his 30s. I think McGrady gets in on the strength of his scoring titles but I don’t believe he deserves it.
Ben Wallace has ZERO shot at the HOF. No explanation should be necessary.
Billups? Laughable…not even close.
Brand? Nope, not unless he has 4-5 dominant years in Philly.
The jury is out on Amare….without a freewheeling offensive system and genius point guard he is a nobody and that will be proven starting this year. He is not as good as Kemp was in his prime and his injury risk is significant.
Howard, Paul, Deron Williams…automatic.
Parker and Ginobilli? Probably get in with four titles.
aaron Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 12:05 am
Sam Thukral,
very good point about Kobe… He was playing against a box and one and I don’t care who you are that is difficult/impossible for anyone.
And yes many do forget about the struggles that Mike had until he was about 30 years old. Numerous exits by Boston and Detroit!
I am a fan of Mike like no other and still consider him the greatest but like Mark Jackson said… Kobe has at least put himself in the conversation as the greatest to ever play the game.
Let’s go LA… We just need LO to shoot 1000 jump shots a day and then we will definitely get back to the ship!
Thanks Sam for bringing some much needed perspective and basketball knowledge to the conversation.
Peace Homie!
david Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 12:09 am
Much as i love Alonzo Mourning and Dikembe Mutombo,i don’t think they belong to the HOF,neither does Vlade Divac
Jack Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 12:26 am
Phil Jackson has already said MJ is more skilled.
Kobe dropped 42 points on MJ in one half, and could’ve went for 100 if Phil didn’t pull Kobe’s foot off of MJ’s neck during the second half blowout.
Kobe plays against much better shooting guards and small forwards.
Kobe showed that he’s the star of stars when he single handedly saved us in the 4th Quarter against Spain.
Kobe = Greatest of All Time.
And everything from here on out is just adding distance.
Basketball Guru Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 2:39 am
Whoever is questioning Vince Carter making the hall of fame is a Class A Retard. He has to go down as the top 3 if not the greatest dunker of all time. That alone will get him in the Hall of Fame. You put that with his statistics and he is in. Yes we all know he never puts his effort. Hes probably the only player in the league who can drop 30 per game without even trying if he had the mental toughness and actually gave a damn. Hes gettin paid and at this point in his career when he is playing with a retard like Yi i dont see how he should give a fuck.
Giant T Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 3:24 am
Chart3, I read what Tex said a day ago, and it didn’t affect my opinion about Kobe’s shot selection. Plus I can’t imagine anyone associated with the Lakers to say anything negative about him.
I live in L.A., I’ve watched about 95% of Lakers games for the last few years, and from what I see, Kobe takes a lot of bad shots. I really can’t think of anyone who takes more fadeaways or contested shots. Sure it looks great when he hits ‘em and he may be the best at it, but really, they’re low percentage shots. Let’s take for example, Steve Nash, who I consider to be one of the smartest players in the league…how often do you see this guy take a contested jumper? It’s pretty rare. Same for Wade…I don’t see him taking many contested jumpers. There’s a lot of contested drives, but he’s usually drawing contact, and he’s a great finisher. Wade and Nash’s shot selection is backed up by their FG%. Wade’s lack of 3pt attempts speaks volumes about his recognition of his own limitations. Sure, Kobe’s a better shooter, but I don’t think he’s nearly good enough to be taking so many 3’s. I mean the guy’s shot more 3’s in each of the last 4 seasons since Shaq left than Wade has in 5 seasons combined.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Kobe’s a great player. My problem is everyone and their moms calling Kobe the best player in the world for the last couple years when I see Wade and Lebron playing just as good or better. Just look at the numbers and accomplishments of the last 4 or 5 years…can you honestly say Kobe’s a better player than Wade based on that? I really can’t. Wade is far more efficient and consistent. His consistency rivals that of a dominant big man. His shot blocking is comparable to middle of the road bigs, and he’s only 6′4″. Before this past season, I’ve never seen Kobe play with consistency for more than 1-2 weeks. Kobe was terrific in the 2nd half of this season…I’d never seen him more efficient and consistent. If he had played like that for half of his career, it would justify some comparisons to Jordan. Kobe has had all the talent and skills to be right up there, but I think it’s his intelligence on the court that’s really held him back, and the numbers show it.
After seeing how Wade has extended his range during the olympics, it’s absolutely frightening to imagine what he’s gonna do if he’s healthy for the rest of his career. He deserves far more props and attention than he receives. The guy’s done everything right since day 1 of turning pro, except having the kind of personality that the media and public eats up.
Manoje Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 4:17 am
Kobe is not MJ! They are different players from different generations. In the same sense Lebron and Wade are not Kobe either.. I think its nearly impossible to compare players. They are all similar in that they are tough competitors and have a desire and drive to win.
I’m appreciative of the opportunity to see some of Jordan’s career and now I get to see Kobe. I think people should stop hating and comparing and just appreciate the game and their champions.
As MJ said - its all apart of the “evolution of basketball”
Dr.Hibbert Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 6:00 am
The difference in fg% between Kobe and Wade is almost completely nullified by the difference in 3-pointers…: usually Wade will shoot something like 10/20 (example) from the field and get 20 points from those shots…Kobe will shoot 9/20 and still get 20 points from those shots, because 2 of them will be 3-pointers.
P.S: the actual career numbers are: Kobe 19.0 shots per game, 18.5 points per game (+6.5 FTs)…Wade 17.2 shots per game, 16.8 points per game (+7.1 FTs).
P.P.S.: goin’ to the line more is obviously a good thing, that comes from Wade aggressive style, AND shot selection…but Kobe is a better FT shooter and in the end their scoring efficiency is extremly close (Wade comes up slightly in front…but Kobe doesn’t turn the ball over as much…and that should even things out).
Zendon Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 6:18 am
Dr. Hibbert, so, if their fg% is different from the amount of threes they take, what about LBJ, he shoots just under50% pretty much every year, and it seems he takes around the same amount of threes.
Brady Croyle Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 6:20 am
fake injury,mane
Beez Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 7:20 am
Sam thanks for pointing out that Kobe played against a box and one and Jordan never even played against a zone in the Nba at all. And the league was horrible for the most part of his championship run. And for all of the idiots who are trying to compare Wade and Kobe don’t know anything about basketball . Wade basically had two good years, the championship year and the year before that was okay. Kobe plays in a much better conference and earlier in his career played against much better talent than it is now . Don’t forget Kobe played against a great Portland,San antonio, sacramento, Utah , even Minnesota was good for a couple of years. And dont stop there what about the championship runs that everytime Shaq was on the bench in foul trouble who took over the games “Kobe”. even Shaq was calling him the best player in the world. And those shots he takes just because you can’t make them doesn’t make them bad shots. You don’t accomplish what he has with taking all bad shots. The same San antonio tema that swept Lebron 2 seasons ago Kobe just destroyed them. And just because Wade beat a dallas team that had no heart and took thing s for granted in a series they were up doenst make him on kobe’s level . Look at the resume first before you start comparing . Kobe finally has a team that is his. You forgot Jordan, Lebron , Wade A.I. all these guys were given there teams when they got drafted becasue their franchises sucked Kobe came into a situaton with 4 allstars (the first ever done before) on his team shaq Nick van Exel eddie jones and himself and eventually took eddie jones spot. so please stop when these guys like chris Paul that they are comparing to isiah thomas when he couldnt even shut down ricky rubio and if kobe want there that redeem team would have been a cream team again!!!
Showtime! Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 10:56 am
Rodman should be in the HOF. No question. The guy was unstoppable on the glass and was a huge part of what ?!? 5 Championship teams? Not sitting on the bench watching his team win, busting his ass to help get the wins. Without him, the Bulls might not have won their last couple with Jordan.
Hill: Unfortunately no, a career derailed by injury.
Ben Wallace: You must be joking….
Pierce: Has a shot if they repeat…
Billups: Nope.
Rasheed Wallace: Maybe, for beaking Rodmans technical foul records….
Malone , Pippen , Miller, Stockton: Locks
Vlade and Kukoc : Should be in for their international contributions. Would we have Ginobli, Dirk, Yao, etc without Vlade? Maybe not… These guys opened doors for others.
Just my two cents, and yes Kobe will tear it up this year. The finger will not be an issue and the Lakers , Celtics will be in the Finals again. Watch out for the Blazers though, something tells me Mr. Oden is going to make up for lost time.
brian Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 2:27 pm
from a die-hard lakers fan, i must say that Kobe deserves at least a consideration as the greatest player of all time. sure, he hasn’t been as consistent nor efficient as he could possibly be but if you look at the players that he had to play with since Shaq left L.A., what else was he suppose to do other than try to score in every opportunity/position? He took as many shots as he did and he was indeed selfish at times because he simply HAD to. However, look at what he accomplished last year. With emerging of the great Bynum and then arrival of Gosal, we all immediately saw a different type of player from Kobe, the typer of player that he once was when he had Shaq in his team. Kobe’s scoring average dropped 5 (?) points a game from a season before and nearly 7-8 (?) from 2 seasons ago when he averaged 35 a game. Is Kobe Michael Jordan? Of course not. No one will ever be Michael Jordan. Kobe is simply being Kobe and thats all there is to it.
Let me just make a prediction for next season.
Bynum is the KEY factor for the upcoming season for the Lakers. If Bynum can stay healthy and play 82 games (or close to it), I’m telling you right now that the Lakers will be the champions of 08-09 season.
Giant T Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 4:03 pm
Wow, this comments section is getting long.
Zendon, good point about Lebron’s high FG% even though he takes a lot of 3’s.
Beez, sorry that I’m an idiot and don’t know anything about basketball. So I guess Wade and the Heat didn’t win that title…Dirk and the Mavs gave it to them. ‘Cause Wade was just an average player in that finals anyways, and plus he had Shaq on the bench to cheer him on. Oh yeah, and also Detroit was a far better team than the Lakers in ‘04. Kobe didn’t shoot them out of that series at all…he should’ve taken way more shots. He was shooting like under 40%. Wow, he is the greatest. And yeah, what does CP3 think he’s doing anyways? He should’ve saw how Kobe completely shut down Rudy Fernandez and learned from that. CP3 should join the D-league and change his number ’cause the real CP3 is Candace Parker. Thank goodness for Kobe’s 1 or 2 great games in the olympics, ’cause without that, Wade’s 1 or 2 bad games would’ve cost them the medal. Yikes! I really should try to watch basketball sometime so I’d learn something about it
Peace.
Giant T Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 4:36 pm
Brian, from a die hard Lakers hater that lives in L.A., I hope you’re wrong. But I do agree, the Lakers should win the title if Bynum’s healthy. The big question mark is Odom playing the 3. But I do think they’re going to rotate Odom, Pau, and Drew between the 4 and 5 after the first 7 or 8 minutes of most games. Also, watch out for Sasha…I think he could be a serious surprise contender for 6th man of the year if they can manage to plug him in for 25 minutes a game. The opportunity is there with Manu looking fragile, Barbosa with a new coach, Childress going overseas, and Portland having a crowded bench. Plus I think Sasha has the kind of personality to want to prove he’s worth the new contract and also redeem himself from that awful finals performance.
P.S. Death to the Lakers
noah Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 5:03 pm
I’m not sure I agree with the lists of who is a HOF’er above. So here’s what I think…
(1) Retired or semi-retired players
(a) In: Jordan, Stockton, Robinson, Malone, Pippen, Miller, Payton
(b) Fence: ‘Zo, Rodman
(c) Doubtful, but some shot: Tim Hardaway, Webber
(d) Out: Divac, Kukoc, Penny Hardaway, Dikembe
(2) Active players
(1) In, even if they retired today: Kidd, Kobe, Iverson, Vince, Duncan, KG, Dirk, Shaq
(2) On the fence (and future work unlikely to change things): Nash, Ray Allen, Billups
(3) On the fence (but more titles as team leader will probably get him there): Pierce
(4) Likely in, but more work to do: Chris LeBron, Howard,
(5) Probably in if they can stay healthy for a few years: Yao, D-Wade
(6) ood shot, but trajectory of remaining career remains key: Tony Parker, Paul, Amare, T-Mac, Melo, Deron Williams
(7) Highly doubtful: Manu, Elton Brand, ‘Sheed
(8) Out: Ben Wallace, Grant Hill, Steve Francis
brian Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 9:06 pm
Grant T, let me ask you a question: why are you a die-hard Lakers hater who live in L.A.? are you from a different part of the country or are you a fan of the clippers?
anyway, i REALLY hope your right about Sasah being the 6th man of the year. Honestly, i didn’t even give that a consideration and i still can’t picture him winning that award but i hope he proves me wrong. i can’t wait to see Bynum and Gasol together. With Odom and Kobe, the lakers will have the biggest/tallest front court in the country. That being said, we should physically and mentally intimediate every team in the nba (celtics being exception) night in and night out. If we play with that mindset, i have no doubt in my mind that we will be nothing but unstoppable and win at least 60 games in this season. i would like to see Kobe win another MVP but only if he deserves it. my only problem is that even IF kobe is the most valuable player of the year, there is no chance in hell that he will win the award just because he won it last year and the league (and 80% of the population) still hates Kobe…simply because he is Kobe…
P.S. Let the light shine on the Lakersnation~
Thomas Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 9:53 pm
I think that the two are about the same in skill on the basketball court, but if I had to choose I would say that Kobe will be better than Micheal when Kobe’s career is over because he had more time to play by coming out of highschool. Also the thing we have to remember is that when Micheal was drafted by a HORRIBLE Chicago Bulls team, so he was immeadiatley thrown into command of the team and its leader. Kobe was drafted by the Lakers who were just about to sign the best center in the game in Shaq. In the first third of his career with the Lakers, the ball was going to Shaq and so Kobe couldn’t play his game. Also Mike didn’t have any teammates to play with, just as Kobe has had in the previous three years (excluding last year) but both of them took teams to the playoffs that had no buisness being there and won. I think that Kobe will be better than Mike at the end of his career.
Beez Said,
September 19, 2008 @ 5:05 am
Giant T you don’t watch basketball that much because if you would have saw the Lakers/Pistons championship you would have saw a lakers team with no rick fox karl malone or devin george and gary payton in foul trouble every first quarter in every game of the series and they played zone.And they never won another one did they? And i never said Wade wasnt good but great? you act like the kid had 10 year run he’s been in the league how many years went to playoffs won one when shaq got there and played a soft dallas team that sent him to the foul line 30 times in one game the most ever please. He threw in the towel last season just to get a lottery pick and these guys are complaining about Kobe not getting surgery to make sure he’s there for his team Wow! and chris paul is good but great one great season check Byron Scott’s resume didnt he take the new jersey nets to two consecutive championships running that same offense with a great point guard doing the same alley-oop play he was doing with kenyon martin as he does with tyson chandler so that system is great for a point guard that can runa pick and roll then lob all day but numbers dont impress me these days morst of these teams dont play defense and the referees screw up most of them. And as for Kobe in the olympics that wasnt his job to score when he shoots too much everbody complains when he doesnt everybody complains wade played well but Kobe came through in a big time game one and done type game not a series. wade cant shoot a lick and if you shut the lanes off that he walks everytime or falls he cant shoot on a consistent basis leave K
Rashidi Said,
September 19, 2008 @ 1:54 pm
“I cant believe this dude thinks Penny, Ben the bust Wallace and, Yao ill never win a ring Ming are future hall of famers thats too funny. Ginobili is good but far from a hof to.”
Penny was an elite player before injury hit. He is in the same boat as say, Bernard King, who is trying to build support despite an injury plagued career. I put a question mark next to him anyway. There are worse players in the hall of fame, and he obviously wouldn’t be first ballot.
Ben Wallace is a 4 time all-star, 4 time defensive player of the year, and won a championship. (Joe Dumars by comparison was a 4 time all-star, 0 time defensive player of the year, and won two championships). THERE ARE WORSE PLAYERS IN THE HALL OF FAME.
Manu Ginobili has won three NBA championships and led Argentina to the gold medal. It is not the NBA Hall of Fame, it is the BASKETBALL hall of fame. THERE ARE WORSE PLAYERS IN THE HALL OF FAME.
“do you even watch basketball did you see how the ROOKIE Rodney Stuckey played in Billups absence last year”
Yeah, all hail Rodney Stuckey, he of the pathetic shooting percentage. Stucky is a Rich Man’s Keyon Dooling. Let’s try to avoid comparing him to a player who has taken his team to the Conference Finals and 50+ wins how many years in a row now.
“Billups is washed up”
And you have the audacity to ask whether I watch basketball?
Rashidi Said,
September 19, 2008 @ 1:57 pm
“come on, Vlade? Toni Kukoc?”
As I said, these players are international ambassadors for the game, the basketball hall of fame is more than just who scored the most points in the NBA.
Arvydas Sabonis is considered a hall of fame lock and he never averaged more than 14 ppg in the NBA.
Buc Said,
September 19, 2008 @ 8:33 pm
It’s obvious most of you know nothing about Ben Wallace’s career… or who’s in the HoF or what is required. Ben has accomplished more than a lot of guys who’s in right now.
andrew Said,
September 19, 2008 @ 10:17 pm
To whoever says Dikembe is obviously out: I think he has a shot and has the credentials to get in - long career, 8-time all-star, 4-time defensive player of the year, second-most blocked shots in league history since it was a statistic (wilt and russell probably blocked about a million and a half shots between them) and most of all a great ambassador and humanitarian.
Steve Said,
September 22, 2008 @ 7:08 pm
WHY ARE YOU COMPARING KOBE TO MICHAEL?
DID YOU NOT WATCH THE 08 NBA FINALS? Seriously?!?!?
Kobe is an alltime GREAT player. Top 5 of this generation (Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, KG, Iverson…. and Kidd) that is fading out……. and Kobe is top 20 of ALL-TIME.
But MJ is number 1 of alltime. Thats a whole different ballgame. Seriously.
Kobe earns bigtime respect as the 2nd best SG of alltime and thats gonna bring up MJ’s name of course due to him being the 1st best SG of alltime.
But until Kobe wins a ring as the best player on a championship team and carries a team to a ring he better not get brought up as on Jordans level again.
He hasnt earned it: the only place you can earn that comparison. The finals…… if you want to argue over who was the best “Sidekick” in NBA history and have a Bulls Pippen vs Lakers Kobe argument than Im with that and give Kobe the nod over 91-98 Pippen (And 83 Dr J and 95 Drexler and 84 Magic and 87 Kareem and etcetera etcetera).
But until Kobe…… you get the point.
Steve Said,
September 22, 2008 @ 7:19 pm
“When I look at numbers and accomplishments, there’s no one close to Jordan. The best player since Jordan really isn’t even Kobe, it’s Wade. Wade’s numbers and accomplishments are pretty astonishing for only 3-1/2 healthy seasons. If Wade isn’t plagued by injuries for the rest of his career, he really has a legitimate shot at having numbers comparable to Jordan’s. And Lebron has the physical ability to be right up there too.”
I agree with that BIGT. 110%. Wade shoots 50% like Jordan did and is a much more efficient offensive player (Scoring and creating for teammates).
I hope injuries dont hurt him. He’s still a year and a half away from the age that Jordan was when he won his first ring and he just got all-star+nba all-defense Small Forward Shawn Marion and great power forward/inside prospect rookie Michael Beasley to help him out.
Also:
05-06 Wade is the only swingman since Jordan retired to carry his team to a ring as the best player. That is the only way to earn a Jordan comparison IMHO.
Steve Said,
September 22, 2008 @ 7:25 pm
“Kobe showed that he’s the star of stars when he single handedly saved us in the 4th Quarter against Spain.”
Bullshit once again. Wade won that gold medal game for us more than Kobe or anybody else. Sorry for the facts.
Steve Said,
September 22, 2008 @ 7:29 pm
#
Manoje Said,
September 18, 2008 @ 4:17 am
Kobe is not MJ! They are different players from different generations. In the same sense Lebron and Wade are not Kobe either.. I think its nearly impossible to compare players. They are all similar in that they are tough competitors and have a desire and drive to win.
I’m appreciative of the opportunity to see some of Jordan’s career and now I get to see Kobe. I think people should stop hating and comparing and just appreciate the game and their champions.
As MJ said - its all apart of the “evolution of basketball”
Exactly right. Kobe is a GREAT player. One of the 5 best of this generation (Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, KG, Iverson…. and Kidd).
Care to guess the 5 best of the next “generation”/decade????
I go with: Wade, Lebron, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard and Amare…… thats ALOT tougher than you think it is.
Steve Said,
September 22, 2008 @ 7:47 pm
re is no chance in hell that he will win the award just because he won it last year and the league (and 80% of the population) still hates Kobe…simply because he is Kobe…
P.S. Let the light shine on the Lakersnation~
LoL. NO ONE HATES KOBE. Maybe 10% do…… but 10% hate Lebron too. Hell 10% hate Mutumbo, so what?
Thats whats funny. Kobe didnt win MVP because you need to WIN AT LEAST 50 games to be an MVP.
How would he have won it before 2004 when Shaq was the MVP of the team and most dominant/best player? He couldnt have yet he STILL finished top 10 in the voting cuz of how great he was!!! (just never finished above Shaq in the voting).
Then in 2005: 30 win team. NO WAY he wins MVP on a 30-win lottery team.
2006?: 7-seed. 45 wins. NO WAY. I dont care how your numbers are (Kobe was 35ppg/6rpg/5apg on 45% fg’s)……. if youre a 45 win #7 seed you have NO CHANCE IN HECK. (For example: MJ in 87 averaging 37/8/6 a game on 54% shooting. No shot at MVP due to poor record of team and low playoff seed…………. or TMac in 02-03 averaging 32ppg/7rpg/5apg on 46% fg’s………………or BEST EXAMPLE: Lebron this year averaging 30/8.5/7.8 on 50% fg’s… and that was a 4-seed!!! Which gives him a much better chance but he finished 4th(!!!) due to the bad record…. the team won 45 games and was 0-9 in games Lebron missed(!!!!!!!) That is INSANE!!!!!)
How about 2007?: 43 wins and a 7seed?!?!?! Kobe deserves MVP with that? Seriously?
Come on man. No year that he should have won it until last year. HE WON IT LAST YEAR AND IT WAS WELL DESERVED. He won it over great candidates like: Kevin Garnett, Lebron James and Chris Paul that all couldve won it in other years with their performances (KG leading Celtics from worst to first?!?! Lebron: 45-28 with him, 0-9 without him. Oh yeah and averaged 30,8 and 8 a night!!?!? Chris Paul leading Hornets to tie for best record with Lakers and having best PG year in a long long time!?!?!)
And Kobe EARNED his award with unreal performance for 07-08.
But make no mistake about it. That was the first time he had a real MVP season. and he won it. Rightfully so.
No one hates Kobe. They hate ignorant/stubborn Kobe fans that love Kobe and think Kobe can do no wrong EVER and deserves to be called best player ever even though he’s never led a team to a ring and think he should win MVP awards when he: A) Wasnt even the mvp of his own team (96-2004) or B) Didnt make the playoffs (2005) or c) didnt even get a top-4 seed or win 50 games (2006 and 2007) or d) didnt make it past the first round of playoffs (06 and 07 again).
Thats what they hate. They LOVE Kobe. He is one of the best ever and SO FUN to watch. He’s awesome.
Just hate his fans who are so mis-informed and mis-guided with a SERIOUS lack of realistic expectations and SERIOUS SERIOUS SERIOUS lack of knowledge when it comes to basketball and basketball history.
shawn washington Said,
September 23, 2008 @ 8:24 pm
put kobe back in the day with all the players like jordan and pippen and all the other greats. he would kill all of them with the exception of jordan and a few others. the games has changed so much and the players have gotten so much better and also way more athletic. so i think kobe has to face way harder opponents than jordan ever had to face. plus now without shaq kobe has to basically do everything for the lakers to win.
Giant T Said,
September 24, 2008 @ 2:17 pm
Steve, why were you so late for the party? I got reamed by kobe ass kissers and had no one to side with me.
muscle charts Said,
October 3, 2008 @ 5:34 pm
muscle charts…
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Suedenolikasteve Said,
December 2, 2008 @ 12:10 am
Steve you’re a hater the ultimate Kobe Hater(LOL) you spent waaaayyy too much time write’n that comment…It’s a comment not a blog. But ur right to an extent.