Why Phoenix made the deal for Shaq
A few weeks ago I heard about a potential deal the Suns might be involved in, but I brushed it off because around this time of year we hear all kinds of rumors. Then when the Lakers acquired Pau Gasol, my mind started to wonder and mainly because there are two teams that the Suns view as huge hurdles to the finals: the Lakers and the Spurs.
I again started to worry because it meant more Shawn Marion trade rumors and one more round of those rumors could really destroy any progress the Suns made since the Garnett discussions last summer with regards to the Matrix.
Well, here we are again and this time it’s a done deal.
Let’s get one thing straight before I talk about the value of this trade and give my five reasons why the Suns had to make a deal for Shaq and my five reasons why it could work… Shawn Marion is one the best people and players I have ever had the pleasure of watching and the Miami Heat will find out what working hard for 48 minutes is all about when the Matrix arrives in South Beach.
Marion leaves as one of the most consistent and popular Sun players ever and he will definitely be a candidate for the Suns Ring of Honor when he retires. Shawn is the best combination rebounder and defender in this league since Dennis Rodman and the Suns will have to find a combination of players to replace what Marion brought to the table every night in those hustle categories.
I also know Shawn well enough to say that he will indeed miss Phoenix, but he understands that being traded virtually head up for the most dominant player that has probably played is nothing to be embarrassed about.
Although the Matrix factor will be missed, the Suns had to do something. Yes, they have the best record in the Western Conference. But something was not right. The dominance that we were used to see was not there on a consistent basis. We did not see the blowout games or the 20 to 4 runs that this team has spoiled us with over the last three years. The games seemed to be a grind and it wore on the fans and critics and caused us to think that maybe the Suns were becoming vulnerable. That, combined with the improvement of the Hornets, Nuggets, Trail Blazers and Warriors at the bottom of the pack, made a trip to the Finals look hazy and difficult.
So we also must assume the Suns front office and coaching staff had some of the same anxiety because they are extremely giddy at having the opportunity to put Shaq in a Suns uniform.
Here are five reasons why the Suns had to make this move for Shaquille O’Neal:
Steve Nash’s window of opportunity is closing
As each year passes, the Suns cannot expect Nash to continue to create offensively for everyone. Pushing the ball on the fast break is one thing, but having to run the two-man game 40 possessions every night against physical defenses will eventually take its toll. Nash deserves a chance to add a title to his two MVP trophies.
Spurs have never won back-to-back championships
The last time this scenario came to bear, the Dallas Mavericks used a physical combination of Erick Dampier and DeSagana Diop to wear down the Amare-less Suns to move on to the Finals against Shaq and the Heat. The Spurs have showed signs of wear and tear and the Suns do not want to miss out again on this opportunity.
Lakers add Pau Gasol factor
The Lakers could have said we traded for Pau Gasol on Halloween because it scared everyone in the Western Conference. I don’t even play anymore and it scared me. Imagine the frontline of Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum and Gasol. Then combine it with the athleticism and shooting of Kobe Bryant and it’s obvious how every team is saying, “Why is Phil Jackson so darn lucky and why can’t he suffer for long?”
Throw in Trevor Ariza, Jordan Farmar, Derek Fisher and Ronny Turiaf. The Lakers look like a championship team this year.
Suns are 2-6 against the top teams in the West
The Suns have beaten the Lakers without Bynum and they beat the Spurs early in the season. They are 0-2 against the Hornets, lost twice to the Lakers with Bynum and got beaten by the Mavericks. The major reason for the losses has been an inability to defend the paint and the lack of defensive rebounding. Proof lays in the stats of the teams interior players when they play the Suns. Bynum averages 21 and 12. Duncan averages 27 and 17. Chandler averages 15 and 15. All above their season averages. And if you want to look further, Al Jefferson, who plays on arguably the worst team in the league, averages 32 and 16 in two Timberwolves wins this season against the Suns.
Combine this with the foul trouble of the Suns best offensive player, Amare Stoudemire, and we see why the Suns chose to pursue Shaq.
The Portland Trail Blazers and the Greg Oden factor
The Blazers are the team of the future. If Greg Oden lives up to his promise and LaMarcus Aldridge and All-Star Brandon Roy continue to grow, the Suns will have another couple of big bodies to deal with over the next few years.
So now that I have given you why the Suns made the move, here are five reasons why it could work:
First let me say this… I have heard the comment about Shaq is a shell of himself so on and so forth. Give me a break. I predicted the Heat would struggle this year and it was not because of Shaq. It was because of the players Pat Riley surrounded him with. Riley basically signed and drafted players that can’t throw the ball into the post and most importantly did not strike fear in teams with their jump shooting ability. This can ruin any big man that is a threat to post up and be productive in this league, including one of the most dominant ever.
So it’s absurd to judge Shaq on what he has done this year. He deserves to be judged on what he can bring to the Suns.
Suns rise immediately to one of the most physical teams
Shaquille O’Neal is a wall. The most overhyped stat is blocked shot. What about deterrence and altering decisions with the ball? The Suns are at the top of the league in blocked shots, but are viewed as a weak defensive team. The reason they blocked shots is because they got a ton of opportunities. Now that statistic will go down, but the opposition’s in-the-paint scoring will too. That means teams will take more jump shots and the Suns are better at that game than anyone in the league and now they also have the interior scoring of Amare and Shaq to boot.
The Suns are the worst defensive rebounding team in the league because they could not command space. Shaq will allow Amare, Grant Hill, Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, etcetera, to be better rebounders because he will eat up space and punish offensive rebounders with long outlet passes – thus allowing Nash and Leandro Barbosa to leak out.
Finally, Shaq will protect Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire from physical play. Players are physically afraid of him and he will punish you if you take shots at his teammates. I would love to see Robert Horry throw Nash to the floor with Shaq around to punish Parker or Duncan.
Three players that command serious defensive attention
Shaq, Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire will cause teams to change their defensive philosophy during the course of the game, which is extremely difficult to do.
Case in point. How will teams defend the Suns when they run the high pick-and-roll with Amare? Normally teams will rotate the weak side big defender over to challenge him. Well, if that occurs you have Shaq on the weak block flashing in for a pass from Nash or a guard trying to block him out. If teams get silly enough to rotate a small player to Amare, then they allow Raja Bell or Leandro Barbosa to have wide open three-point shots on the weak side.
Mike D’Antoni can use his full playbook now with the back-to-the-basket dominance of Shaq.
Improve the running game
The biggest fallacy about the Suns and their running game is that Shaq will slow them down. I believe it will speed them up and give them more opportunities to run. I have already talked about possessions and the physicality Shaq brings to the Suns.
Now couple that with better confidence with your defensive rebounding – thus allowing Nash, Barbosa, Hill and Bell to run out earlier. The Suns could be even more potent. Also throw in Amare running more because of not having to fight and box out big centers.
I never saw Kareem Abdul-Jabbar running the lanes for the Lakers, but I did see him igniting it with rebounding and long outlet passes, and then coming down on the block with commanding presence.
Amare will become more dominant
Because of the matchup nightmare Shaq would bring, Amare Stoudemire will benefit the most.
Foul trouble should decrease and scoring and rebounding should go up. Also watch for his weak side defense to produce more blocked shots and steals. We have never seen what Shaq could do with a young dominant power forward beside him and he has one of the best in Stoudemire, who should be ecstatic at the chance to stop battling centers every night.
Nash can play without dominating ball
This might be the most important cause of the Shaq trade and here is why.
D’Antoni would love to keep Nash on the floor and use him off the ball, but he knows the offense would stall. The addition of Shaq and his great passing out of the post will allow the NBA’s best three-point shooter to spot up for periods during the game and punish defenses for doubling.
Case in point. Grant Hill throws it in to Shaq with Nash and either Barbosa or Bell on the weak side and Amare on the elbow waiting for the short jumpshot or the run to the basket if they double off of him.
This will destroy any defense and if Shaq stays healthy the Suns will be the team to beat come playoff time.
Adam Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:40 am
Hey Eddie,
This is one of your best articles so far. Like everyone else I think this trade was absolutely insane on the surface. The Suns got a player in Shaq that is much older than Marion, has worse stats, is owed much more money, and seemingly contradicts Phoenix’s style of play. However, your explanation helped me see the method to Steve Kerr’s madness. You should be a defense lawyer or something with the way you spun this case around.
Fredd Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:52 am
Dear Eddie, forget the Noah article’s comments …
I like when I read a deep article like this… thanx from France
Michael Bennett Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:55 am
I could actually hear you salivating as I read this article — You (and all Suns fans) should be excited. Shaq changes the game — always has.
I think you’re spot on when it comes to Amare — he can now play his proper position, PF. That’s scary.
And, you’re also right on about Riley messing up the Heat this year. Poor Dwyane Wade. But, he will have a great 1-2 combo with Marion now.
I don’t think the Lakers are as great because of the Gasol trade. On paper, they look great. But, Gasol, Odom AND Kobe are too much. Kobe needs solid role players around him, NOT another almost All-Star.
The Suns are now THE best team in the league — I thought they were BEFORE the trade. This solidifies them as THE most scary team in the league to play. They can do any/everything.
LBJ Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:57 am
Great article Eddie! A lot of people aren’t seeing it the way you just explianed it but you hit the major points correctly. Shaq doesn’t have to score 25 pts and grab 15 reb. Just him being in the lane instantly improves the defense and if he can average 9-11 rebs he will definately get 12-15 shot attempts a night that means a double double. How many centers in the NBA average a double double?! If he’s healthy he gives the Suns a better chance than Marion did. Nothing against Shawn he always comes to play but he’s not a center. And not to mention Shawn can walk if he decides to at seasons end.
marc Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:58 am
if shaq is healthy, this could work. shaq still attracts double teams. raja and leandro will benefit from this. even boris diaw.
ieatshit Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:59 am
at first i thought this trade suck for the suns… then i read this article
ieatshit Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:07 am
hey eddie,
jut wanna know ur opinion, who do you think will win a championship first… kobe, kg or shaq in phx?
i think kg will win first… la will win nxt yr because they need a season to grow togeher…
Aklan Archer Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:14 am
This sums it up. People just don’t give Shaq a break. As Wilt usually says that people don’t root for Goliath. I hope Shaq would punish the naysayers. Shame on them. Everywhere Shaq went, he kept on winning. Going to Phoenix won’t be any different. Go Suns!
Jorel Jenious Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:15 am
Great Article Eddie,
While everyone is running on the Shaq is over the hill nonsense, His 14 and 8 on horrid ball movement team is at least 6 or 7th best for centers right now. I’ve watched Pau, pretty much every game (yeah, I’m a Memphian) and Pau’s 18 and 8 aren’t much different than Shaq’s 14 and 8, except for the fact that Memphis set up was designed for Pau’s long small forward like game. Shaq’s 14 and 8, with Amare on weakside (and Shaq is a great passer to cutters), and Steve Nash giving him the ball on the block, (high enough for him to turn into the defender with the ball above the shoulder instead of the low, knee level bounce passes from Rick D. and D. Wright) look for Shaq, to get an easy 19 and 8. And for this team, that’s all they need.
Plus, the spacing affect on Diaw, Barbosa, Hill. They still are missing the deep ball threat off the bench that they had last season with Jones (now in Portland) but even Skinner’s game elevates because he get’s to battle with weaker backups instead off starters when Amare gets in fould trouble.
And all this talk about age, when was the last team a young team had a chance to when a championship? Of course Shaq isn’t 28 year old Shaq, but Pryzibla, Oberto, Kurt Thomas, Gasol, Brad Miller, Biedrins, Chandler, Kaman, Camy, Okur, Dampier, (all western conference centers except Yao) will have hell in the pain with this Diesel. Now the question is, who get’s abused by Amare?
Stavros Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:19 am
For the Suns.. there are 10 reasons to like this trade and 100 not to.
The Suns are on the verge of winning it all or going straight to a free fall.
I hope it’s the first because Nash deserves it and I hate to see those boring Spurs with rings again.
Jeff Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:37 am
You can’t be serious…
Maybe the Shaq of 3-5 years ago would have helped this team. Not the Shaq of today who was playing alongside one of the 3 or 4 best players in the game and still had one of the worst records in the league; in the East!
If the Suns decide to slow down their high powered offense and become a half-court team, they become average. If they continue with their “shoot in 7 seconds” mentality, Shaq never participates in the offense, and is just a big body on defense. Also, on offense Shaq will park himself exactly where opposing shot blockers want to be. So much for the Suns high pick and roll offense.
The Suns will soon come to appreciate just how good Marion is and how good of a fit he was for their style of basketball.
Wow, first Hill, now Shaq. I wonder if Jordan or Malone want to come out of retirement. Maybe Barkley is interested.
This trade is awesome…for Laker fans like me!
Mike Z. Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:40 am
Eddie,
I has always been a pleasure have to watch you as a player and commentator with the suns organization. Having had watch the suns since I was younger dating back to the late 80’s the suns had never had that true center; along with a remaining 40 million dollar contact, and age, Shaq bring a distraction in the post for more of a inside-outside game and options if the suns choose to put Shaq on the bench and play Amare at the five spot for more of a fast pace tempo. This is only confuses their opponent as the suns will control much of the game by switching back and forth. As well I agree with you 150% with your comments made regarding “Steve Nash’s window of opportunity is closing, Lakers add Pau Gasol factor, Nash can play without dominating ball, Suns rise immediately to one of the most physical teams, and Amare will become more dominant,” with having to said Shaq will bring the Suns organization its first NBA championship.
Oh and by the way Matrix and Banks contracts were crazy: the suns would not have been able to keep Marion much longer due to the money that he was commanding (as to mention the chemistry issues), and Banks remaining 20 million dollar contract which is only deserving about half due to the contribution he makes to the team. Banks is a good player but not for the suns. Shawn Marion will be missed as for the past 8 years of services which he has given the suns, but this only works in favor for both matrix and the suns for having trading him away.
For all of the Phoenix Suns fans in the world, “get ready for amazing 2008 championship run!”
Mike Z.
KOLY TENGUELA Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:58 am
Eddie,
great article from top to bottom. I agree with all you said but the suns should better get the title this year or it’s going to be too late.
I have a question for you: Is there any truth to the rumors about Marion complaining about shots and creating chemistry issues in the locker room or is that just a media thing. Don’t know if you could answer that without getting yourself in trouble with suns management but once again very good article.
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:11 am
HaaHa.. Keep talking yourself into this one Eddie! You guys are going to miss Marion, mark my words.
Dre Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:11 am
I feel sorry for Shaq, dude is going to be getting killed night in and night out on the pick n roll by every team in the West. He won’t be quick enough to get back on D against GS, LA, Denver, NO, etc. You think this guy can run with Chandler, Bynum, Camby, Duncan, Al Harington, etc.?
All the opposing team has to do is go small and the Suns won’t even be able to put Shaq in the game. Also they gave up their best rebounder, not to mention Shaq’s horrible free throw shooting. Hack a Shaq returns.
When Nash trys to run the pick n roll with Amare, Shaq will fudge everything up by clogging up the paint.
This trade has so many downsides. I also have to mention this guy is very injury prone he could get injured and miss the rest of the regular season or playoffs at anytime, at least Marion was durable.
Also Eddie said you can’t judge Shaq’s play based on what he did with the Heat this season because they did not have players that could get him the ball. Yeah right, they probably stopped passing him the ball because he started missing dunks and layups like Kwame Brown.
Chad Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:11 am
That was a great article eddie.
Mike Z. on the other hand might be crazy
But what you forgot is that shaq will only play 25 min tops in a game.He averages more fouls than he ever did with less minutes. Do you know why, because his 7′1 375 pound frame cannot function. I dont know what the Suns traning staff injects in they’re players but it wont work.
E
ven if they win this year they will never win again because of they’re age. Not only did they get worse, they got older too. The lost they’re best defender, rebounder, and fast break point specialist. When shaq leaves who do you start.
1. Nash- defensive liability
2. Barbosa
3. Bell
4. Diaw
5. Stoudemire
You only have shaq for a small period of time. When this lineup goes in they will be punished by The Spurs, Lakers, Hornets and Mavs. The Suns are 2 and 6 against the west elite for a reason and it wasn’t marion. I agree shaq is a great passer, but no a threat to the elite.
He has to go through L.A. and this time I’m on Kobe’s side.
1. This trade destroyed the chances of a Suns championship now and for the next 3-4 years.
2. Steve Kerr will lose his job, when he brings in Chris Webber next year
3. Nash will prove as the worst mvp ever and only one never to see a finals game, because he never should have been mvp.
Horrible move by the Suns.
KOLY TENGUELA Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:12 am
Michael Bennett,
“Gasol, Odom AND Kobe are too much. Kobe needs solid role players around him, NOT another almost All-Star”
Having a lot of talented players is not a problem when the hierarchy is clear, players know their roles, complement each other and are not selfish. Odom, Gasol and Bynum know who’s the top dog in L.A, are not selfish players and complement each other (Odom with his versatility, Gasol with is low post scoring and Bynum brings the phisicality inside). The Lakers have more than enough role players with Fisher, Walton, Radmanovic, Farmar, Vujacic, Turiaf and Ariza. I don’t know if this will be the year for them, i think that next year with bynum’s improvement and a full training camp under their belt they will have a better chance but if someone can make it work, it’s Phil Jackson.Suns and lakers have been pretty close in their precedent battles and it’s going to be the same this year but it will be the last.
Michael kukich Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:13 am
Great job Eddie, this should be mandatory reading for those 71% who thought this was a bad trade by the Suns. With the Heat playing so poorly and with Shaq’s and Riley’s differences, I think his acute hip inflamation was more of a phantom injury designed to bench Shaq without embarassing him. The Suns medical staff seem extremely confidant that they will return Shaq’s mobility and explosiveness and hopefully that in turn will return some of his vertical lift. I see D’Antoni emulating Showtime with the ageless Abdul-Jabbar being replaced by a very happy and motivated Shaq! I mean just think how thrilling it would be to go from a last place team that is going nowhere to one of the best with an MVP point who can actually throw the ball into the post, two more passers in Diaw and Hill who can do the same, and possibly a fourth in DJ!
Then you factor in the increased production in Amare’s game by not playing center and playing alonside your childhood idol, the increased roles for both Hill and Diaw and there really isn’t any reason to think this does nothing but help the Suns win NOW. Amare also gets that very important mentor to help with his maturation, something I think he sorely missed when they traded KT. People are going to shocked when they see how well shaw will play and the overall improved chemistry of the Suns as Marion might have been productive, I don’t think he was much as a leader in the locker room, that it was quite apparent he was not very happy in Phoenix which was wearing on his teammates.
Suns had to make this trade because I don’t think they were going to get through all of the West playoff teams to the finals this year. just too much size and talent this year. I mean when the original small-ball guru up in G.S. signs Webber for their half-court game you know the West is tough!
Scotty2Hotty Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:20 am
Why do you think the suns win so many games, because the are the hardest team to scout during the season. They’re first mentality is to shoot in the first 7 sec. With shaq that will slow down. When they slow down they use the high pick and role… which also messes up with shaq down there! Are you people out of your mind! That trade was awful. If they wanted defense so bad why did they trade Kurt Thomas. He defended, could run and hit some jump shots.
The lost last night when Chris Paul hanged 42 on Nash.What could shaq have done, on make them score less, because he isnt a suprise.
Michael kukich Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:23 am
Koly, to help keep Eddie’s relationship intact with Marion I’ll print what I heard. Marion wasn’t happy with his role, not really having plays called for him while he did everything else possble. He wasn’t happy about being considered less vital to the teams success than Amare or Nash, such as this year those two were still named All-Stars while he was snubbed. The consensus was that while he showed up and played like a professional every night, his teammates knew he wasn’t very happy and as one of the captains of the team hw wasn’t doing a very good job at being a leader. Marion just isn’t that type of personality to begin with and it was probably extremely difficult for him to try and be happy, productive and a leader. Shaq as we all know is just an over the top, charismatic , outgoing, and now extremely happy person who will just naturally take over that leadership role along with Nash and Hill and you will now see a very happy locker room once again. This trade addresses more than having a true center, it also addresses chemistry and leadership issues.
KOLY TENGUELA Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:30 am
Everyone’s talking about suns and lakers right now but i still think it’s too early to write off the mavs and spurs. The road to the finals will go through those two teams in the west and they still look to me like the most solid right now.Those guys have been playing together for years now and have already made it to the finals, no one will beat them easily.
Chad Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:32 am
Idiots. This is one of the worst trades ever. The whole team just got older, slower, and worse all in one trade. They sent they’re best defender, rebounder, fast break specialist, and versatile player away for the 36 in may year old Shaq. People Shaq’s body has broken down.
He retired two years ago. People give Nash so much credit, but marion is the most important player on the team. In most games and for the past years when the were most succesful, marion led in every categorie except assists and points. He is the offnese and defensive presence.
And for Michael K. The suns only play 7 players in the rotation.Hill has already begun his injuries for this year, shaq will begin. Don’t be so quick to give the Suns staff credit for keeping people in shape. It not that hard to keep a 34 year old Nash in shape. He doesn’t play defense and has zero athletic ability. And he’s also the worst mvp in history and will prove it by being the only one to never see the nba finals. Its a shame if he needs old shaq to do it for him.
The Suns are 2 and 7 against winning teams in the west for a reason. And it wasn’t marion. Shaq has more fouls this year than in his whole career with more minutes. Its over for the suns.
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:33 am
Amare Stoudemire, it has been reported, prefers to play power forward instead of center. Elias Spotrs Bureau, however, points to some numbers showing that he’s more effective as a center. He has a much higher career scoring average as a starting center than in games that he has started at forward (23.2 compared to 17.1). His field-goal percentage is nearly 100 points higher in games he started at center (.574) than at forward (.475). Phoenix’s record reflects those numbers: 152-53 (.746) when Stoudemire started at center, 63-62 (.504) when he started at forward.
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:38 am
Jeff
you had me till you said you were a Laker fan! that told me you hated the trade for obvious reasons. (-:
KOLY TENGUELA Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:38 am
Michael kukich ,
i heard about all that too and and there’s no smoke without fire so it’s probably true.
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:39 am
I can already see the headlines:
Suns lose to Lakers!!
Kobe gets his revenge!!
Shaq no match for Bynum!!
D’Antoni fired!
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:42 am
Dre you said
“All the opposing team has to do is go small and the Suns won’t even be able to put Shaq in the game. Also they gave up their best rebounder, not to mention Shaq’s horrible free throw shooting. Hack a Shaq returns.”
what do you think the Suns want them to do? lol———because they are the best at small ball in the league. thats the beauty of the trade Dre. So in essence pick your poison. you get dominated by Amare or Shaq.
Chris Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:43 am
It wasnt shaq as the defensive presense it was mourning. This sucks man. Im a die hard suns fan, but this sucks.
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:44 am
Hmm.. Eddie, wasn’t Shawn Marion the most productive player in the small-ball system?
Chris Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:44 am
eddie,
The were the best at small ball when they had marion
Chris Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:44 am
exactly sean
Chris Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:46 am
the warriors are now the best at small ball. the suns are ok but the lost theyre best defender in “small ball” and scorer in “small ball”. He got you there hoopshype sportswriter
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:47 am
Chad
thanks for the great insight. now let us know why you are so mad right now? lol
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:48 am
Sean
who was playing center when he was at forward?
KOLY TENGUELA Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:49 am
Chad,
This trade was a desperate one but there’s no chance the suns would have won the title without making a move.
I think the main reason they have done that is that they have no one who can defend Duncan inside. They don’t need Shaq fot getting 45-50 wins but when the playoffs will come and the game will slow down they will need someone to put on Duncan in the fourth quarter and i believe that Shaq can make the job done at least for this year. Neither Amare than Marion can do that but it’s clear that they are going to miss a lot of the things that Marion was doing.
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:50 am
Sean
could happen, but then again if the lakers keep losing to the Hawks —it could be the other way around!
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:50 am
Not someone on the verge of collecting social security checks!
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:51 am
Sean
hmmmm no—-it was Nash and Amare.
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:51 am
I don’t think the Lakers have to go through the Hawks to get to the Finals!
Dre Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:51 am
Wrong Eddie, if the Suns wanted to play small ball they would not have traded for Shaq in the first place. They think he can keep up and help them on D, yeah right. Once Shaq gets forced to the bench when other teams go small they will be forced to play small ball but now they will be playing it without Marion.
So basically the Suns will still be playing the same game, without their third best player and Shaq will be watching.
That means they pretty much traded Marion for nothing.
Chad Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:53 am
Your right, but he still has to learn how to play with them. The reason why the win 45-50 games is because of they’re small ball advantage. When Shaq comes he eliminates that. You cant just switch what you’ve been doing for 82 and then expect to win it all in the post-season.
Right Eddie?
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:53 am
Come on Eddie, don’t discredit what Marion did for your franchise.. Marion is an all-star and argueably could have won the DPOY award the last couple of seasons! Not to mention he is a freak of nature!
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:53 am
Dre
We will see—you read the article my man. Now watch and see.
Chad Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:54 am
And eddie , it was marion
Chad Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:00 pm
And Koly, I understand the had to do something, but for marion don’t you think the could have just gotten a dominant defensive force.If if thats what they wanted the could have kept k. Thomas. Shaq has never been that. They would be better off with Dalembert. Its not just this year thats the problem Shaq has done 3 things to them
1. He may have made them worse
2. He has single handedly closed nash’s window with the suns after this year.
3. He has buried the suns for next year in cap.
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:01 pm
Eddie,
As far as your article goes, I don’t think Portland will be a serious threat for a championship for at least 3-5 years. By that time, Nash & Kazaam will be sipping pina coladas at a Sands resort in Cabo.
Vincent allen Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:03 pm
Although I agree with 90% of what Eddie had to say, I still believe that the other dominate teams will guard Shaq straight up and make him prove that he can still play at a high level. That being said the Sun have a two year window at best and defensively if opposing teams ie Laker, Spurs, Dallas and even the Hornet make Nash and Shaq beat them there a strong possibility that the Suns will faulter because the other players will have to do things out of character that they have not been ask to do in the past 3 years in their offense. As a reader of this posting you can probably tell that I root for another team and your right I’m a Laker Fan for life however I won’t discount or devalue Eddie’s opinion I’ll just simply say this trade has the making of a very entertaining NBA playoff this year. The true winner may be Boston or Detroit (If they make the Finals) since the winner of the western conference will be beatup trying to simply make it out of the western conference. Parity in sports is nice but most fans really like their team to be dominate and now we have several dominate teams Suns, Spurs, Dallas, Lakers, Boston, Detroit and possibly the Hornets and even Cleveland (Mike Bibby or Andre Miller included), it all depends on seeding and which of these teams is hot during the playoffs.
mariaton Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:13 pm
Hi Eddie
I agree this was a good step for Phoenix. Basically, they will probably get all or nothing. With Marion they would probably finish somewhere between.
However, where do you see Phoenix in two years? Assuming Phoenix will/won’t win the title this/next year, what should Steve Kerr do next year/year after?
Thanks
Chad Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
Headline: Missin’ Marion
Last Night
Suns 130 to 132 loss to Hornets. Not significant.
What is. It went into Double OT
The Suns had 1 steal in the entire game, because no pressure on the ball.
Nash was abused once again by a point guard( 42 by chris paul) and lost the game on defense.
Also when Nash is the leading scorer on his team they usually lose and the other point guard on the team has a great game.
Oh and Eddie No bad blood man. It was an excellent article, I just see marion leaving hurting more than helping, but if shaq comes back like you say, they can make some noise.
but until then……………………………………………. KOBE!
Fernando Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:24 pm
Eddie,
I understand why you wrote the article but unfortunately Sun’s fans are delusional if they think that Shaq is still the dominant force he used to be. Let me be very clear, Shaq was one of the greatest players of all time but the key word there is was. I do not think that the Suns will slow down on purpose but that will be inevitable when Shaq will not keep up. Marion gave that team a legitamate third scorer and Shaq will not. You are quick to say that Miami did not have the role players anymore and that may be why they did not make the playoffs but it seems to me that a Shaq and Wade combo would be enough to keep them out of the cellar. That was not the case though. Good luck Suns you’ll need it.
Fernando
mariaton Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:25 pm
Eddie,
Yet one more question. What do you think this will bring for Boris Diaw. It’s being said that he was losing with Amare, but I think they recently managed to co/work on the court and Boris was rather losing due to Grant ans Shawn (at least because of similar positions/though different roles and skills/ and playing time).
Jax Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:33 pm
Hi Eddie, I would just like to add another reason why this trade is a GOOD trade. To think that Shawn really wants out, and he has the option to opt out of his contract next year… it is really a great deal pulled off here by Steve Kerr - imagine getting a Shaq in return for the Matrix instead of nothing - assuming Marion opts out next year.
Jax Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:40 pm
P.S. i don’t think the Suns will miss Marion much… they still have Diaw and Hill in there to provide the slack.
dodie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
i think shaq is good forthe suns for one reason amare will be in jail killing some people named POWER FORWARD!!! PEACE OUT
KOLY TENGUELA Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
Chad,
Shaq has never been a great defensive player because he never put too much effort on that end of the court but anytime he choose too he was very good. Remember those spurs-lakers battle, a lot of times Shaq was on Duncan in the fourth and he was doing a good job on him . Yes, he’s no more the same player but he doesn’t have the same load to carry on his shoulders also and i absolutely believe that if healthy, he can do a better job on Duncan than Kurt Thomas.
“1. He may have made them worse”
he may make them better come playoff time, no one know. Time will tell.
“2. He has single handedly closed nash’s window with the suns after this year.”
There’s no window for Nash after this year or at the best next year with or without Shaq.
“3. He has buried the suns for next year in cap.”
Giving a max contract to an unhappy Marion would have buried them for many years, he’s 30, can’t give them the title and don’t want to be there.
Ultimately, this is a desperate trade and usually , those are not the ones that give the better results but at least for this year, i don’t think they will be that much worst like you think but next year with no draft picks, no salary cap and aging players they are going to pay a terrible price for this.
Jax Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
i just cant take this… i was checking out the other comments and saw a “Marion” is the most important player of the Suns not Nash… wtf?!?
Jorel Jenious Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:21 pm
what is with this “small ball” garbage? It puts butts in seats, hoorah. But when the Celtics, Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, Spurs, Lakers, and Heat have won championships (all the teams since I’ve been following the game) NONE of them played this ridiculous small ball garbage. If Nellie had Yao Ming in Golden State, they would play inside out, Nellie’s style is an offensive one, but he doesn’t have quality bigs in Golden State.
If Phoenix had Chandler or Dwight Howard, they would start at center, they play the best five, that’s their only advantage because they didn’t have a true 5. Their tough guy for a few years was a 6′9 260lb. Kurt Thomas. And you guys are acting like Shaq will hurt. They took 40million, OVER 2 years, so in 2 if BOTH Shaq and Steve are gone, how much will they have in cap space, with an in his prime Amare, Barbosa, and Diaw. Let’s be real. If not this year, they’ll be hell next year.
Michael kukich Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
“And for Michael K. The suns only play 7 players in the rotation.Hill has already begun his injuries for this year, shaq will begin. Don’t be so quick to give the Suns staff credit for keeping people in shape. It not that hard to keep a 34 year old Nash in shape. He doesn’t play defense and has zero athletic ability. And he’s also the worst mvp in history and will prove it by being the only one to never see the nba finals. Its a shame if he needs old shaq to do it for him.”
OK I’ll bite Chad, what is your point about the seven man rotation? I made no reference to it. DJ has a chance to make it eight but I certainly didn’t make any point about it.
The Suns medical and training staff are currently reconized as the best in the league, that includes Mike Clark, president of the National Academy of Sports Medicine. Steve Nash has benefitted because of his chronic back condition, spondylolsis which causes him back pain or pain in his hamstrings if he trys to compensate for the back pain. It has nothing to do with the level of defense he plays or how much athletic ability he has. Staying in shape and playing professional sports is extremely difficult with that condition, if not impossible.
Grant Hill’s injuries have begun? He has a surgically rebuilt ankle that has endured I think about five surgeries that has held up just fine this year. He had an emergency appendectomy that required surgery and then he came back too soon and injured his back while compensating for the incision in his abdomen that hadn’t healed all the way yet. I hardly see any correlation. The Staff has done a great job of restoring Hill’s confidence in the rebuilt ankle.
Antonio McDyess was traded by New York because McDyess couldn’t come remotely close to his old-self after breaking his kneecap. After the Suns medical and training staff got through with him he had moved into the starting center position and played so well that the Piston’s offered him more money then the Suns were willing to pay him.
Then you have Amare, who has the most successful return of any professional athlete from the dreaded and often career-ending microfracture surgery. Amare’s comeback alone gives the Suns medical and training staff the utmost credibility as being the best in the Nation but in conjunction with the other players I mentioned they are simply miracle workers!
This same staff has examined Shaq has concluded they could help him regain some mobilty and explosiveness so whose opinion carries more weight, the ones of the college educated athletic trainer Aaron Nelson and Mike Clark or you?
Why is it such a shame that Nash, a point guard, needs a center to win a title? Is there an asterick next to Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili’s name because they had Tim Duncan? Is there an asterick next to the Heat’s players because they had Shaq? Detroit because they had five-time DPOY center Ben Wallace? You want a closer comparison? Even Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen had true centers on their rosters, Bill Cartwright, Scott Williams, Bill Wennington, Luc Longley, Will Perdue, Stacey King, etc…they might not have been HOFs and played by commitee but the fact remains they had true centers playing center, not two converted PFs.
As far as Nash being the worst MVP in history in what context? Most Valuable is NOT synonmous with most unstoppable or dominant, or else Kobe would have won several by now. MVP goes to who is most valuable to his winning team and its a popularity contest also. Nash and the Suns style were very successful and Nash was the most vauluable to that success and popularity. The Suns were the leagues biggest road draw, so Nash was most vaulable for bringing the fans to the games. Worst? Yeah, that is why he beat out both Shaq and Kobe. So the 123 sportscasters and broadcasters around the nation who do nothing but watch every game are all idiots and your opinion is more valuable than theirs?
Jorel Jenious Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:27 pm
For all the “small ball” fans, what happened to Phoenix and Golden State in the playoffs in the second round?
They got beat in the Paint by Timmy D / Oberto and Boozer / Okur respectively.
For as special as “small ball” looks in the regular season the only team that’s sniff the finals without a solid 7 footer was the Ben Wallace led Pistons, also anchored by near 7 foot Rashed Wallace.
And the suns don’t need Shaq. Look at the last 10 seasons of Finals basketball.
nashty Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:34 pm
All you laker fans get off this post. Seriously coming on here and damming the trade is pathetic. Just shows you are scared. Also how pretentious are you guys (Phil Jackson included) thinking its just a reaction to Pau Gasol trade. Its nearing trade deadline. These things happen all the time this time of year. I must admit im skeptical but im a suns fan & have trust in Phoenix managment, coching, Traning staff and the core group that remains.
Hey EDDIE are you going to jump onboard and win a tital too. After all you could score 10 points a game still. Just like what u said when reggie was coming back to celtics. You might move into the 20,000 point club & then you will have even more ammo to talk yourself up.
nashty Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
Eddie. Couple questions. All these injuries to Shaq that are meant to magically dissapear. How did they happen? was there one incident or is this just/tear & old age catching up with him. A change of scenery cant cure that. What evidence do you have he can get back to fitness if there nothing they can relate these injuries back to.
Ron Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:41 pm
As a Miami Heat fan, I agree Mr. Johnson. Shaq gives a team all those advantages, but you’ll NEVER see them on the stat sheet.
His years in Miami are greatly thanked, and like he said in his press conference, I’m glad he’s found an unselfish team like Phoenix to contend once again. His presence alone cogs up the lane, and I LOVE the way you put it; Horry wont lay another finger on Nash as long as Shaq is a Sun…cant wait till this year’s playoffs…hopefully he’l play the Lakers and the Spurs/Mavs. I just wanna see Dirk get raped again. After this trade, I’m also a Suns fan just because I wanna see Shaq get another ring, and although I love my Heat, i dont see them doing anything this year(hopefully get Rose in the draft!). THANK YOU SHAQ FOR 2006…MIAMI LOVES YOU!!!
rv2843 Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:42 pm
It looks like a good deal on PAPER. Time will tell. But I think this is a very bad trade for two reasons:
1: it changes a team’s identity which has been built for past three years. Can anyone on Suns defend? No, this team is not a defensive team. It wins by scoring, not by holding down opoenent’s scoring numbers.
2: It disrupt the team’s chemistry. Now who is the team’s #1, #2 or #3? Amare won’t be happy behind Shaq, and I don’t think Shaq will be happy other way around.
Eduardo's Way Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:43 pm
Not only do I agree with Eddie Johnson, I think his numbers will improve drastically because of the extra possessions. Even if Shaq does not block a shot, teams will not be able to penetrate at will like most teams take advantage of. At times San Antoinio takes advantage of Phoenix’s bad posterior defense. I think Phoenix will win the Championship. People didn’t think it would work with Miami and it did. If Shaq is able to win a championship in Phoenix this in opinion will make him one of the greatest champions in NBA history. Seriously, I think of him like Bill Parcells of the NBA only because he makes the team better immediately. Phoenix will be in the conference finals at the very least.
George J Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:46 pm
Eddie, fantastic article. Although I had some disagreements with your opinion of the Noah situation in the last one, I never ever doubted your basketball IQ and it shows again. I think the Matrix is a fantastic player but Miami and D Wade, as much as I respect him, are in for a rude awakening to a life without Shaq and I would love to read your comments on the Miami side of the deal. The Suns will go places with Shaq and it only made sense for them because in the long run they are so dependent on Nash that they cannot really look beyond the next two-three years when he nears retirement. Thank you again.
anthony Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:51 pm
The suns just got really old today.
sure Shaq can help ignite the fastbreak. But who is gonna be on the wing? Hill is likely to have another injury soon. Amare and Diaw on the wing? Their run n’ gun style’s energy level just dropped a few notches.
Too many if’s. But then again, like most are saying. They had to do something because they didn’t have a team built to win a championship.
Xan Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:54 pm
This is very very exciting indeed. What a great article.
You’ve actually brought up a lot of points that Shaq himself has talked about in the press conference this morning: making Amare, Raja, Grant, Steve better! Much better.
Sure Shawn is a talented player and brought great energy, but Shaq is a completely different beast and with his injuries, this is a risky move, but one of those risks that this team Had to take it order to overcome and succeed.
Western Conference now has gotten much better, again, and more exciting.
Can’t wait for the play-offs.
LBJ Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:55 pm
Small ball is fun to watch but when you’re getting out rebounded and your opponent is getting more shot attempts then you are. It’s tough to win at any level. Let’s face it….it doesn’t matter if your center is Ben Wallace or Bill Cartwright. You have to have rebounding, shot altering if not blocking and toughness inside. You may have to do it by commitee rather than relying on two individuals but you have to have it come from somewhere.
Look at the Pistons of the late 80’s that won back to back titles. Dennis Rodman wasn’t a star wild man at that point. He never scored much but he rebounded and helped protect the lane. Lambeer, Mahorn, and Sally did the same thing. None of them were great individual players but they did what they could to handle the middle. Even if it was just a hard foul….which they did often ask Pippen. Or even Eddie. Every championship team in hoops at any level has to protect the paint.
tayshaun Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
I think Miami got the better of the deal. But then again, Shaq was not motivated to help a team out of the cellar.
BRockin25 Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 2:23 pm
Shaq may average single digit pts and rebounds, as well as low 50% shooting…and the trade will still be worth it.
joseph nolan fowler Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 2:38 pm
thats gonna be crazy seein big deisle, amare, nash, hill, diaw, barbosa and bell thats how I spell championship! Nice article… oh yea darold M is a fat dih! Darold is shaqs bro… Ryan L. chubby dih
gooz Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 3:09 pm
Don’t talk smack to Eddie, he’ll make you look like a fool.
From all the message boards i’ve read, about 90% of the negative comments and negative opinion on the trade I see are coming from Lakers fans… interesting..
Javier Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 3:25 pm
Eddie, huge article. I’ve only seen so far criticism of this trade, while it brings huge things to the Suns. I’m a Magic fan who really liked the Suns until they started flopping their ways to defend Dwight. Now I like the Suns even more, with Shaq there. I’ve always liked Shaq, and I think one of the main reasons of his demise (despite the other is being old) is Pat Riley’s way of coaching.
You forgot another thing why this trade could work: have we ever seen Shaq playing with a top-tier, pass-first point guard? Not since the Magic days… I’m very excited to see the competition on the West, and would love to face you guys in the Finals, though first we have to defeat Boston & Detroit.
Let’s sit, watch and enjoy! Cheers!
AB40 Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 3:49 pm
Man this is what I say all the time to my friends, including that shaq with nash could still get 15 and 8 or9. Shaq having an open shot at the basket… when was the last time that happened. Amare Hill and nash getting passes from shaq? that’s a kiiller combination. I never liked phoenix. I still think they’re weak on the defensive end even including shaq. The lakers also but they are just big. My money is still on the spurs when tony parker comes back. But the defensive matchup game that is the playoffs will be more fun to watch(in the west, the east once the bottem 4 get out so Orlando, Detroit, Cleveland and Boston can duke it out.
Balin Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
Eddie great article and it was exactly what I have been discussing with friends. Everybody is expecting Shaq is going put some big numbers up and change everything and that is how the Suns are going to play. Shaq is going to be the big distraction that will enable Amare and Nash to go off. PF are going to be guarding Amare with no double team on the pick and roll. How do you stop that? Shaq is old but if you give him the ball in the paint he will still finish it. On defense Shaq will take up space and as he’s always done, change shots and make player pay for coming into the lane. Remember Shaq wont be guarding the paint by himself, Amare will be in there with him and probably to match up with the lakers, Diaw will be in there too. The main risk on taking Shaq is if he is Healthy to play. Remember Brian Skinner has looked good playing around Nash, so dont think Nash cant make the big daddy look good again.
cd135 Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:09 pm
Uhm…of course Eddie is going to be biast and talk a good game about this trade having a positive effect on the suns, HE WORKS FOR THEM! lol so it’s his job to talk positive about the whole situation, if he said “horrible trade, it’s won’t work because, etc.” he’d be canned. Great article Ed, but I’m not buying it. Too many negatives way out the positive outlook on this matter.
And also you said to one individual “your a laker fan so you must hate the trade”, well, I’m a laker fan, and I LOVE IT! =)
And the whole losing to the hawks thing, big deal, haven’t the suns lost to any horrible teams this year? Most importantly their record against top teams in the west?
Chad Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:18 pm
Michael K
All I’m saying is that Marion hasn’t been happy for years and they still got to the Western Conference Finals. With this trade, they risk they’re short term and long term future.Its a huge gamble!Even If they keep Nash healthy for .. 2 more years.I see you have done your research on the training staff by the way lol, but I dont care how good the Staff is Shaq is good for one more solid season, before he just begins to take up space. So far yes statistically and defensively, Nash is the worst M.V.P. ever. And the only two-time that has never been to the finals. And he has had the help, but to get there you need defensive stops and Nash could never do that. He is not the leader on both sides of the ball.
This trade also made them older, even after this year you have the other top five teams in the west, that play more people in there bench and are younger. And the Suns tend to run out of gas come round 2 of the playoffs. I just dont see shaq keeping up. Like I said before, the win 45-50 games because of they’re style. It will be changed now, in midseason. Its a big gamble. If it works Kerr is a genious, if it doesnt well
Not to Michael
Marion was the most important, because he can lead and finish the break and four out of the last five years led in rebs,blocks,steals,minutes played and he was close in 3 pointers and points. He is also they’re most versatile defender.
BullsNut Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:22 pm
Hmmm this sounds familiar.
Just like how the Bulls were going to compete for 1-seed this season right?
Shaq can’t finish at the basket like he used to. He’ll sometimes not even go up for dunk, instead he’ll miss a layup. He’s hurt and that’s obvious. This is a big risk which could end up good for Phoenix, but I am not counting out the beasts in L.A. Kobe Bryant owns every player in the NBA and we’ll just see how well the three beasts work together.
Eddie you can’t help but be excited. I would be too. Maybe if Shaq doesn’t win one in Phoenix, he’ll come teach Ben Wallace how to shoot freethrows.
hop drop Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:25 pm
am I missing something? I have only seen about a half dozen HEAT games this season, but Shaq DOES look like a shell of himself.
I haven’t seen an explosive dunk from him in quite some time. With that big body, he gets his points in the paint, but he has only got one power move that goes through the defender.
I admit, he will give you a good whack on the defensive end and is still intimidating. But, his defense is lazy and he gets alot of fouls.
maybe he was just dogging it and can really flip the switch. it will be interesting to see.
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:32 pm
Sean
thanks –why dont you write articles for now on. you know more than everyone. good job. you probably thought Shaq would not win one in miami?
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:38 pm
Michael kukich
that was excellent! great post
anthony Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:39 pm
HEADLINE:
STEVE NASH AND AMARE LOOK TO EX LAKER TO HELP THEM DO SOMETHING THEY COULDN’T ON THEIR OWN!
Deshaun Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:49 pm
Great Article. I think this trade benefits both teams. The heat become an athletic team with Wade and Marion, and will start rebuilding next year with the help of a top draft pick. The Suns couldn’t get to that next level with the team they had, so they needed a change. In Shaq, they get the true center that they have been missing, and can move Stoudemire back to the 4. Even though Shaq has slowed down, he still has that defensive presence in the paint that they could use. He still commands double teams, and can kick it out to the Suns shooters. Also, like Eddie said, Nash won’t always have to do everything for the team on offense. Another thing for the Suns, D’Anotoni needs to play more players and make the team deeper. They could also maybe use another pure shooter on team.
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:49 pm
Anthony
headline, Kobe ask Memphis to send them Gasol, Ariza and bring back Fisher. I wonder what would have happened if the Phoenix Suns did not send them Robert Horry?
be quiet! lol
CFatz Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:06 pm
Hi Eddie,
Good writing, but this time I have three reasons to disagree.
1) Shaq’s hip
2) Shaq’s knees
3) Shaq’s back (not Shaq is back but the back of Shaq)
Shaquille is not healthy and that’s for real. His injuries aren’t of the phony Belichick variety (”My quarterback has a bad eh, ankle yeah a bad ankle). If Shaq can’t get on the floor, he can’t play, if he can’t play he can’t help the Suns win games. The only way Shaq can help the Suns in his current state is to heal and be the beast that he was in 2002 and earlier for the full run of the playoffs. For him to expend his health before then and pull up lame for the playoffs makes this trade a bad one for the Suns.
Steve Kerr has to know this. For this reason I see a different reason for the Suns agreeing to this swap. They are trying to put the Heat in debt. In the next couple of years the free agent class will include LeBron James, Andre Iguodala, Kobe Bryant, Emeka Okafor, Andrew Bynum, Elton Brand, Antawn Jamison, Gil Arenas, and yes Shawn Marion and their own Steve Nash, plus Chris Paul. It could be difficult to be a serious player in the free agent market as their salary payout is structured over the next couple of years, but now if the Suns had someone who owed them a favor…someone who could eat a contract or serve as a clearing house for unneeded players while they make a play for a big-name big-talent free agent, well things might go a lot better for them.
I don’t see Shaq in his current state helping Phoenix on the floor, I believe they sent the more valuable Matrix to Miami while the Diesel finishes his days in the comforts of the dry heat in the desert.
CF
:0)
Kemal Budak Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:12 pm
Everybod is talking about the pros and cons of this trade from the angle of Suns. But when we look at Heat. They at least have a kind of warranty to keep Wade in the team. D-Wade, Marion and a player coming from one of the top picks in the draft and other solid role players like Haslem will make the Heat a playoff team again next year. The contender? I think we gotta wait for the maturity of the player who will be coming out of the draft (if nothing goes wrong…)
David Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:12 pm
The biggest winner here is Shaq. He gets to go from zero to hero. He gets to leave a team that would struggle to get 20 wins this year and with no future to speak of, to a team that already had a legitimate shot (I said legitimate, not sure) to get to the finals. What more could he ask for (besides the 40M left n his contract)? He was starting to look like Ewing when he played for the Sonics. Now he can come save the day where he is an obvious fit…a good team with no center.
The Suns will miss Marion, but he had 1 foot out the door anyway, so props to Kerr for pulling the trigger.
Eric J Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:23 pm
The “Suns win 45-50 games because of their style?”
More like 60-63. Where you been since 2004-5?
BullsNut Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:32 pm
Dreaming about courtside Bulls tickets….
Eric J Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:40 pm
Hey Eddie. I’m from Phoenix but living in Israel for 6 months due to my girlfriend’s job in research. It’s painful knowing I’m going to miss the games, especially now (!), until April. You have always been my favorite commentator when watching local broadcasts.
Some interesting moments with you have been when I’d watch the ESPN/TNT broadcasts for once, Suns give up a lead, commentators pick Suns style apart, I go crazy and put it back on you guys, I hear you confident as can be about the Suns, Suns regain lead and win big. Believe it or not it’s happened on multiple occasions. There’s nothing like hearing complaints about my Suns, switching to my45 and hearing you say something like “They better watch out for Amare right here” right before Amare dunks on peoples heads consecutive trips down the court, and the Suns regaining control.
I was relaying this story about you to my ex-coworker before I left for Israel, and he said “Yeah he’s a great guy!” Turns out he goes to your church. His name is John Pirtle and used to go by J.P. at work. If you see him tell him I was thinking about him.
Anyways, your confidence has literally taken control before as shown on my TV screen so it comes with much relief to read your article, especially since I’m so damn emotionally invested in these Suns. Thank you.
sage Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:42 pm
Wow, I can’t help but be awed by Pat Riley. He knew shaq had at least 1 title run in him and deposed of him when he (best evaluator of shaq’s current status) was given Shawn Marion and another player as a reward for his creativity. This year and last year Shaq has been so much injured and getting paid $20 million, 1 mil for 20 games, 500k for 40 games this year. Riley said so this is what the downside is…must bailout soon! People just don’t become healthy and play like a 30 year old. He is not a 35 y/o pro specimen but a 40 year old pro specimen with his aversion to hard work. He will breakdown.He will try….get betrayed by his body and…. get injured again. He has a low pain tolerance and will skip games for the smallest reasons… and will have surgery on company time… His mindset is also a problem. Ask Pat Riley. He was spiraling downhill after he had given Miami a championship, back to his old ways as a Laker. Did you see his games this year? without Mourning playing defense…he was exposed more.
Thanks Pat Riley for the assist. Shawn Marion has been a thorn all these years, guarding the best players and putitng up clutch points, always the first guy on the fastbreak, young and injury free. i wont miss him a bit…
Phoenix….thanks for getting Shaq instead of Dallas because he would have been a better fit there and more problems.
Trash that smells good is still trash….its up to you to RECYCLE!!!
Fran Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:47 pm
I like the way you write, why don’t you write more? bye
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:53 pm
“Finally, Shaq will protect Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire from physical play. Players are physically afraid of him and he will punish you if you take shots at his teammates. I would love to see Robert Horry throw Nash to the floor with Shaq around to punish Parker or Duncan.”
I’m still laughing. Suns now have another fool who will enter to court and get 1 game automatic ban.
Michael kukich Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:54 pm
Here is Shaq’s injury history the last couple of years.
04-05: missed 3 games due to sprained left knee.
05-06: missed 18 games due to sprained right ankle.
missed 2 games due to hyperextended left knee.
missed 1 game due to sprained right thumb.
06-07: missed 42 games due to surgery to repair small tear in menicus cartilage in right knee.
07-08: tendinitis in knee during training camp and inflamation in left hip and quadriceps muscle.
Shaq hurt the quadricep muscle diving for a loose ball and the hip inflamation is simply a result of compensating for the pain or possibly from tendinitis in the knee.
The Suns medical and training staff excel at these types of compensation injuries. They will allow the injury to heal and the put Shaq on a regimen of special excercises that will stop the compensation by changing the use of different muscles and strengthening under-used ones. I think a lot of people will be shocked to see how much shaq can offer after the Suns staff gets through with him. they wouldn’t risk so much if they weren’t completely confident they could help Shaq get healthier than he has been since 04-05. Sarver bet that extra $20 million he will owe Shaq in 09-10 on it and we all know how frugal he is.
2DecadesOfSunsMiseryOver? Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 6:01 pm
Not sure why, but Eddie’s comments have made me post my first ever Basketball comment ! As an eternal but quiet suffering ( … all of sudden vocal) Suns fan who had to go through pains worse than puberty, I too initially was very sceptical and apprehensive. But the more I analyzed it and read just about every article about this trade on the net, in my opinion Eddie’s article just nails it like a Nash No look lob to Amare (or Marion … god bless and good luck to the unsung hero).
Despite whatever happens in the playoffs, no one can argue that this trade hasn’t added a lot of intrigue and excitement into what is already turning out to be a milestone year for the NBA.
Suns Basketball is ultimately about entertaining the fans on their quest to the becoming champions, and the sheer audacity and bravado they’ve shown yesterday is a Champion in motion.
ERnie Williams Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 6:08 pm
Eddie,
First, a comment about what has happened to the Sun this year. The league has caught up to them. Every team in the west can score on the same plane as the Sun now, so they don’t have the edge they used to have. Getting Shaq will not solve that problem, and may cause their scoring to come down.
You are very optimistic about the Shaq trade but not very realistic. I guess as a Sun fan you have to look at the potential bright side. You seem to think that Shaq will get double-teamed, and I say, or what? How much can he score these days if you don’t double him? Shaq is a brute. He has no basketball skills worthy of his status. The refs don’t let him run over people anymore, so he is a shadow of his former self.
If he is so good why is Miami the worse team in the league? He had D. Wade, one of the top ten players in the NBA and couldn’t deliver.
I am a Lakers fan and respect what the Sun has done to us the past two years. They were favored to beat us in the playoffs because they were better they us. But we no longer have the talent deficiencies we had then. We are simply better that the Sun now, and will prove it if we meet in the play-offs this year.
What the Suns lost from Marion
1. Great defense (he guarded Kobe better than anyone else in the league)
2. Speed
3. Finishing capability
4. Flexibility on offense and especially on defense
5. 3 point shooting
6. Rebounding
What they gain with Shaq
1. Foul prone
2. Slow
3. Cumbersome on offense and defense
4. Terrible free throw shooting
5. Average passer from the post
6. No 3-point shooting
7. No game past 10 feet of the basket
8. Fumbles passes, and turnover prone
9. Never been a good rebounder
10. He can still dunk an offensive rebound
Ronny Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 6:11 pm
Hi Eddie, I can only agree to what Fredd from France said: “I like when I read a deep article like this” (2nd seed) — thanks and greets, from Germany.
sage Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 6:37 pm
I guess the Phoenix medical staff is better than the Heat then when they say they can rehab shaq and make him the shaq of 2 years ago even. Its worth a try! Not!
..but the pro human body is the same whoever orthopedist sees it and medicine has not changed.MRIs dont lie, meniscal tears, hip and spinal degenerative tissues don’t lie..how much cartilage in his knee does he have left…..its all there to see. it wont go away..its part of aging!!! Thats why people who are more athletic pro players who took care of their bodies still retire at this age…..more so him, who didn’t take care of himself.
I bet the Heat management, medical team knew exactly what they were doing when they unloaded the garbage! They bluffed and the first call they got, they pushed all in!!!!!
Pat Riley, you fooled the Lakers when you dumped garbage on them for Shaq and now you’re still dumping garbage and getting an all-star in return. A real hustler!!!!!
Shaq is not a “player” ….but a PRAYER…….miracles do happen!!!
Just ask the Giants and the Tyree pass!
Rashidi Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 6:47 pm
The more I thought about the deal, the more I liked it. Amare really needed to get back to PF. His jumper is much improved to the point where I think he’s probably as good a shooter as Marion. And the truth is the Suns were never going to beat the Spurs with Marion guarding Duncan.
That said the big fella isn’t going to get anymore minutes than he’s getting now, if anything he’s only gonna be playing half the game. If anything this opens up more PT for Boris Diaw to do his thing.
The Suns need a backup PG now, in case something happens to Nash or Barbosa. I think the best option available right now would be the Glove, Gary Payton. He has 3 years of experience playing with Shaq, and he brings something to the table that guys like Nash and Barbosa (and former free agents Damon Stoudamire and Earl Boykins) don’t - a defensive mentality. Truth be told, GP is basically an older, cheaper version of Marcus Banks right now. He isn’t as good a defender anymore, but he won’t be a turnover machine like Banks is running the offense. He’d be a good candidate for spot duty, he doesn’t need too many minutes in the rotation.
jn Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 6:59 pm
Oh, yes, I forgot how much Shaq enjoys “special exercises” and his aversion to missing games.
Rone Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 7:15 pm
Isn’t SHAQ the same guy that said something along the lines of..
Nash did NOT DESERVE the MVP Trophies???IM just saying..
LJ Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 7:22 pm
Suns are desperate….a very disappointing move. They just opened the door to the basket. Bell is the only decent defender on the perimeter so everybody else is going to go straight to the rim. Amare’s not a smart defender and Shaq doesnt move laterally at all and racks up fouls much quicker now. Players don’t fear him like they used to. They shouldve kept Kurt Thomas. Sarver blew it…again. Oh well…our Suns will just have to wait another decade for a shot.
enrique Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 7:44 pm
Very funny.this article makes sense……………..if this was 5 years ago when shaq was putting up around 28ppg and 12rpg.
What was the suns GM thinking, now its safe to say its
lakers vs. celtics in the finals.
Lakers make a perfect move in getting Gasol, Celtics make a great move in getting KG and Allen and Spurs make a smart and descent move in signing
Damon Stoudamire. Its not to late for the Mavs to get J.KIDD…but SHAQ for MARION and BANKS trade, c’mon eddie.
Michael Bennett Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 8:13 pm
*Lakers made their move first — decent pick-up in flimsy Gasol.
* Phoenix got Shaq — front-runners for the ring now.
* When will Dallas deal for Kidd? CAN they deal for Kidd?
* And, sorry Spurs fans, Damon Stoudemire won’t cut it — The Spurs are a long ways away from a repeat.
* In the East, LeBron, no matter who he’s grouped with, is dominating the court — e’s the MVP/Best Player in the World.
* Boston is slipping, but that’s because Garnett’s tummy hurts — Come back soon, KG!
* Detroit is rockin’ and rollin’, but are they past their prime?
I’m very scared of the Suns. They are really going to be special now. Shaq is such a game changer. He allows the Suns to beat every team two different ways on offense — half court demolition, or run you out of the building. Steve Nash will get his first ring, Shaq his fifth this year. GuaranSHEED.
Michael kukich Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 8:18 pm
Oh, yes, I forgot how much Shaq enjoys “special exercises” and his aversion to missing games.
Maybe on a losing Heat team but with Suns he will be practicing significantly less than while he was playing for Pat Riley. He has made the verbal commitment to abide by whatever plans the training/medical staff has for him, based partly on what Hill has told him and the results of their work on Nash, Amare & Hill. This is a highly motivated Shaq looking to prove fans like yourself wrong. History is on his side.
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 8:23 pm
CFatz
Shaqs knees checked out
shaqs back checked out
shaqs hip checked out
shaq has 11percent body fat and weighs a career low 312
now what?
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 8:24 pm
Onur
no he will wait till later!
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 8:26 pm
Rashidi
i have finally agreed with you. what is thios world coming too. lol
Melvin Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 8:32 pm
I think finally the Phoenix feel they dont need to run anymore..
now eddie? what is going to happen to HEat?
http://basketballnonsense.blogspot.com/2008/02/shaq-attacks-west-coast.html
Melvin Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 8:34 pm
Anyway I lkie this article…
djhott Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:24 pm
phoenix got what they where missing, a 71 center to defend, and dunk
play 28mins, that still gives phoenix 20 mins to run&gun , maybe just good for this year, and next, but phoenix &la make it real hard for the spurs to 2peat, and nash’s defense is and never will be great, as is shaqs free throws. but amare&shaq inside, with the best passer nash, the best defender bell, and hall of famer ghill,6th man of year barbosa, and diaw, nuff said.
get article eddie
and jokim noah should still shutup
djhott Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:32 pm
michael bennett, kidd is going to cleveland, for drew gooden,d.jones, &d.gibson
and the trade works for marion
miami will get d.rose& sign elton brand
randy Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:46 pm
omg…what are the suns going to do next…??? Steve Kerr will leave his GM job and sign with SUNS and Eddie Johnson will come out retirement…who else??? Tom Chambers and Charles Barkley…Phoenix should change their name from SUNS to SENIORS citizens…
nashty Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:32 pm
Hey Eddie you didnt answer my question. Do you think you can help their chance by coming off the bench for 10 points a game? i figure if boston didnt give u a call the sons may be intersted. I think your ego compells you to do so. Also on the 10 points you claim you could score, how do you think you could score them? I doubt it if you played 48 mins. Also are you pissed you didnt reach 20,000 point club?
nashty Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:34 pm
suns^^^ derr
MC Welk Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:43 pm
Yo Eddie, no mention of the Jazz? They seem to match up pretty well with the Suns.
tdawg Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:53 pm
Hey Michael Bennett…how exactly does this make sense?:
Kobe needs solid role players around him, NOT another almost All-Star.
what the hell? That’s what Kobe has had for the last 3 yrs…solid role players around him…where did that get him? First round exits to the SUNS
Now that he FINALLY has a legit all star in Pau, a solid ROLE PLAYER in Lamar (yes, he’s a role player who COULD be an all star) and budding all stars in Farmar and Bynum…and then role players in fisher, radmanovic, ariza, and turiaf…
I think your forgetting the Suns are not very deep…they have nash, bell, diaw, amare, shaq, hill, barbosa and skinner…solid 8…but the lakers go 12 DEEP…
Face it, Lakers are DEEPER, YOUNGER, MORE ATHLETIC and just flat out BETTER than the suns…you took a chance with shaq, lets hope you dont end up like the Miami Heat of this year in 2 yrs…cuz thats your window..its CLOSING…while the Lakers window JUST opened…
Have fun with yet another disappointing season…and at least you’ll finally know how us LAKER fans felt when Shaq took time off on company time….
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:54 pm
nashty
basketball is a younger than me game—heck i played till 40. that was enough. watch me All Star saturday night in New Orleans.
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:55 pm
tdawg
what are you basing that on? i hope not the last two years when you went on vacation!
tdawg Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:57 pm
eddie, lakers losing to the hawks? is that really your basis? that was on the 2nd night of a back to back mind you and KOBE had a dislocated finger…dont try to back up your claims with “lakers keep losing to the hawks”…get out of here with that crap!don’t be sucha suns homer when you talk…I think this trade helped the Suns but they’re still not better than the Lakers…at least i can admit that
tdawg Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:58 pm
and i was basing that on the 2 games we played against you guys earlier this year with Bynum…
tdawg Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:00 pm
not to mention the Suns play their starters HEAVY minutes and even their 6th man Barbosa a ton of minutes…you dnt think that’ll catch up to the suns? ESP Shaq? Now your iron man Marion is gone…Hill more minutes? Not sure thats a good idea….your hope can be Diaw going back to playing like he did before he got paid
Ken Ralph Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:16 pm
I thought Shaq would slow the Suns down, but after reading your comments i can see the positives alot clearer. I guess it’s a matter of time before Shaq brings another championship to a new team.
Dave Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:41 pm
This deal would have been great IF SHAQ WERE AN EXPIRING CONTRACT, allowing this year to be a good run at the championship.
They lose Marion who never played well beside Diaw when Stoudemire returned and the two went from Diaw C and Marion PF to Diaw PF and Marion SF…the Suns instead of this should have pushed more for Garnett, the league MVP right now and the team would be going to beat the bulls single season win title of 72…Garnett has the athletcism suns need….and is great defender and shot blocker..
Who knows if fast-breaks uns will work with Shaq….if they this will be last year of Shaq dominance…guy is clearly breaking down…plays barefly half the game…7 rebounds and 12 points is nothing…..his scoring is can still be good for his limited minutes…rebounds and defense are poor….and 2 more years and 40 million will kill the Suns…guy is approaching 38…2 more years are ridiculous really for his age and body condition….next two years he will not play more than 60 games either season, if that….and who knows if he will be injured in post-season……This is a short term solution but not a long term one……I assumed in this trade part of it was the Suns buying out remainder of Shaq’s contract and it was just a buyout……this is just ridiculous…Shaq is too often injured…..there is a reason he won’t be an all-star this year.
A guy that is a far cry from an all star THI