HoopsHype.com NBA Blogs - Eddie Johnson » Artest will star in L.A.

Artest will star in L.A.

July 5, 2009 @ 7:03 am by Eddie Johnson · Filed under Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers, Phil Jackson, Ron Artest, Trevor Ariza

The Lakers have been one of the most dominant forces in the Western Conference for decades and the last few days tell you why. When it looks like this franchise might be on an elevator going down, they find a way to re-direct it back up again.

A few years ago the Lakers were fighting to make the playoffs and in one big swoop Pau Gasol falls in their laps. And then they come upon a major find in Trevor Ariza that leds to another title this year.

Faced with another problem having to sign Lamar Odom and Ariza this offseason, the Lakers have come up smelling like roses once again. How can you go from losing one of your key components and actually get better in the process?

Well, the Lakers just did that by signing Ron Artest. Yes, he will be a problem at times, but the Lakers arguably have the two best all-around defenders and scorers in basketball with Kobe and Artest in the lineup. Artest made one of the best free agent decisions I have seen in a while not based on salary.

I am laughing at the fact most people think Artest is on the edge. To me he looks like the smartest free agent in the pool.

I have always said if he ever made it to a team with a winning culture he would explode and become an All-Star every year. I know Lakers fans are a little down about losing Ariza and I can relate to their disappointment, but don’t think Ariza is anywhere near the talent of Artest.

I will go on board right now and say this: Trevor Ariza will struggle on the island he is going to in Houston. Role players need stars to enhance their game. Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady might not even play next year and that will force Ariza to be the player he is not.

Ariza will pay the price for thinking he was worth more than the Lakers offered him and he will suffer while Ron-Ron will make less and be extremely happy for the next three years. Ariza did not think about why he excelled. Making a decision based on dollars might not ever get him to the Finals again, which might be OK with him.

Artest should fit right into the triangle offense because he is an excellent ballhandler and passer. Kobe will be able to get more rest during the regular season because of Artest’s ability to score when the shot clock is expiring. This is something the Lakers could not get out of Odom, but Artest will bring that ability every night which is huge for the defending champs.

Also don’t forget that Phil Jackson loves the bad boy mix on his teams. He turned Dennis Rodman into a cult hero and if Artest plays as expected he too will reach that level of stardom with the Lakers.

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153 Comments

Ronak Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 7:26 am

amen that.
pureuncut Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 7:36 am

Good article and I think Eddie Johnson is right. Artest may be a better player now than he was ever before because when you play with Kobe and Gasol then you simply dont have the attention you had on you before. Then if Bynum ever gets back to being the player he was before his injuries in the last two seasons, watch out.
LA-FAN24 Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 7:46 am

Ariza wouldnt have been damn near as good as he was without Kobe. and for him to think he can play like that without a star, man he gonna be a ‘letdown’ for the rocket fans.
bballer Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 7:46 am

you are absolutely correct eddie. ariza went from competing for championships to hopefully making the playoffs with the lowest scoring team in the west. a line up of battier and ariza will have a hard time putting the ball in the hoop. brooks and scola will have to carry the offensive load. with mcgrady and yao gone, can we not say welcome to the lottery ariza.

whereas in la, artest will go off every once in a while to break the monotony of dominating the west. artest knows he will make it to the western conference finals, if not the nba finals. he will not do anything to mess that up for himself. he is smarter than that. let the naysayers have their say. they have know clue about people or sports at all. that is why most of us are fans and not in the professional world of sports. artest has been in control of himself for the last 3 years.
Michael Bennett Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 8:10 am

Yeah - I’m still amazed by this move. This makes the Lakers the best team in basketball… and they were already the best team in basketball.

I can’t imagine them losing against anyone now. People underestimate how good Artest is on the floor. They judge him for his other antics, but as a basketball player, there are few better. Now, the Lakers have a legitimate FIVE All-Stars. That’s insane.

If everyone stays healthy (this is always the big IF), this Lakers team could give the 95-96 Bulls a run at the 72 win record. These Lakers are that good. If anything, this move made them a defensive team - they’re THE best offensive team in the league.

Well done, Mitch Kupchak. I remember a time not too long ago when Lakers fans were chewing your head off. I think A LOT of people owe you a continuing apology.
Ballased101 Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 8:14 am

Great article and I agree 100%, ariza made the bad choice thinking that he is a star. I loved his contributions in the Lakers championship run, but artest is a better fit. Only thing I’m worried is how long it’ll take artest to learn the triangle n b automatic with it like how the lakers finally were in the playoffs. Artest will shine under PJ just like rodman did n Kobe will b a lot fresher come playoff time next year.
bibifok Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 8:31 am

so Eddie, this time, I’m really agree with you !
Thanks
Vincent Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 8:44 am

Eddie I’m extremely pleased that you came onboard as quickly as you did concerning the Artest signing. Ron Ron will give Kobe something he’s never had post Shaq, and intimidator with a special skill set. Ron will allow Kobe to not only rest he Artest will now guard the players that Kobe actually is to small to guard ie., Lebron, Carmello and Paul Pierce just to name a few but most importantly Kobe gets a player who wouldn’t be afraid of the big shot or the defensive challenge when it counts. Ken Smith of TNT will tell the national media and audience what others won’t (If the league thought that LA had the deepest most talented team and bench before, well with Ron starting or not this team has the ability to dominate like no other). The aforemention mentioned comment includes the signing of Odom yet with this said I am a laker fan to my core and am going to enjoy this ride for let’s say 3 to 6 years and Eddie I hope you find a way to enjoy it too.
CJ Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 8:50 am

No, Eddie, Ron Artest will not “thrive” in the triangle offense. Sorry, just because he can dribble between his legs and behind his back for his size does not mean that he is an excellent ball handler. He dribbles too much. He can make some wonderful passes, but looks down when he dribbles and does not think pass first.

Now, I will tell you what he will thrive in: the Lakers’ atmosphere. He will help Gasol get tougher. He will give Kobe a sidekick when everyone is not playing tough enough. I am from Houston and I enjoyed having Artest on our team; but, on Rick A.’s offense, it just wasn’t working out for us.

I do wish him luck though.
Marlon Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 9:02 am

Slow down people….the Lakers still need to sign Odom for all this to look good. I’m a Laker fan for long time and I’ve haven’t been this excited for a long time BUT, we still need to sign Odom. I am tremendously disappointed at Ariza though we got Artest. What was he thinking?!?!?!
B_Easy24 Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 9:02 am

Eddie is right, I’m just laughing at those who think that Artest won’t Flourish in L.A. first of all the man want’s to win, he long with battier took LA to a 7 game series and probably would have won, second shame on Ariza for thinking that he worth more than what the lakers were offering him, the reason why he shined is becuase of the triangle and Kobe he had a good playoff run and now he’s thinking that he’s the man naw, third he should not have allowed his agent to scew him up like that, he was bluffing and the lakers called it expect another chip this year
Winkstrap Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 9:05 am

what a surprise the lakers paying money under the table again to get another star (millions to the grizzlies owner to ok the phony gasol trade)

bunch of cheats are giving artest like 10million that is not counted under the cap on top of his mid level exception

remember artest said last year not opting out was the biggest mistake of his life - he wanted to get payed, now we are supposed to believe he is taking even less money to go to a team he never even liked

ron artest you are nothing but a fraud who i now have no respect for whatsoever - the nba is fixed thanks lakers you cheating fakers
Mikey Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 10:07 am

Great article. I agree with Mike B. Lakers could definitely challenge the 72-10 Bulls. The way this offseason player movement is going, I wouldn’t be surprise if there are more than a few teams winning 60 or more.

Winkstrap. Dont be a douche. You must be a Cavs or Celtic fan right?
Phil Jackson Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 10:19 am

Artest will appreciate the lessons of ZEN from me and a 4 peat is coming up…
Fred Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 10:41 am

Eddie, what happened my brother..u moved to L.A or what..lol..u r welcome anywayz
Holla Bolla Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 10:50 am

M. Bennett,

Shrewd move by Mitch..not doubt. As was the trade to originally get Ariza. Mitch is showing some real growth as a GM…however, Lakers fans had every right to “chew” his head off…Trading for KWAME…yes fried-chicken eating, cake throwing, KWAME..and trading an All-Star in Caron Butler to do it. Signing Luke Walton to a $30 million (making the same per year as Ron) contract…aaron mckie, 60 yr old vlade..there were a mess of horrific signings. Pau was a gift, but Mitch has shown some real savvy.

Eddie..writing this article must have been hard for you because of your LA hating ways….or are you now changing your tune, and writing what you believe? If so, pretty professional move. Gotta respect it.

–Bynum, Cleveland, Orlando
LC Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 11:00 am

Eddie,

Great insight. I think you are right on the money with your accessment. What do you think are the chances that they add Jason Kidd or Nate Robinson, and what are the pros and cons of signing either?
egopotato Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 11:03 am

Ariza was in the the right place at the right time. His game reminds me of a young Eddie Jones. Good defender, can fairly shoot the 3, have a quick first step, but lacks the handle to competently navigate between defenders and shoot at a good clip while on the move. More power to him in Houston. The man deserves to be paid for what he has accomplished. Acquiring Artest was a brilliant Kupchak manuever to strategically position the Lakers in their future battles against LBJ in the finals.
Craig Bailey Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 11:26 am

My thoughts on Trevor were I really didn’t expect him to stay, considering this would be his 1st opportunity for a big pay day, I couldn’t blame for leaving. I felt like he would either sign for sum mediocore team for big money or go to a team that is fighting for a championship. But then he goes and does neither, he should fire his agent. Lol. He should’ve went to Cleveland but we’lll take Artest. Gives the Lakers sum toughness and gives Kobe sum help on the defensive end. It should be a great year, jus gotta resign Odom.
DS Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 11:31 am

Winkstrap has a point Artest has been vastly underpaid his entire NBA career and to think all of the sudden a player who has NEVER got a nig payday is just taking a paycut with nothing under the table this is unheard of in the NBA. And Ariza should fire his agent. Dude shoulda got like 8-10 million a year instead of the MLE for Houston.
sdfsdf Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 11:41 am

thanx eddie. everytime u say something or make a prediction. 99.9% of the time it backfires.EX. Shawn Marion top 25 player (hahahaha) dwight howard a dominant center (hahahahaha) magic winning the finals (hahahahaha) keep them coming
Carl from cleveland Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 12:21 pm

Well this just isn’t fair. The lakers already had the best player and the best coach in the world. They made gasol and odom champions,and now they get a stud like artest. either mitch is a genius or something fishy is going on.
bibifok Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 12:38 pm

Eddie for president !!!
Balance,2132310 Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 1:01 pm

what was arizas’ agent thinking? mitch had an idea of keeping ariza, odom and getting ron artest all in the 5.6-6.5 range. d.lee got real greedy, now ariza is going to look like a huge bust. He’s the focal point of the offense. No more wide open threes and lanes to cut down.

Lakers need just one more player. a ball handling shooter, slasher, someone else who can possible swing between the 1 and 3. we’re already good. i think our major challenge next year is boston…especially if they can land g.hill and rasheed wallace.
JasonW Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 1:06 pm

Yeah, but deep inside you still see the Cavs as the team to beat!
C’mon don’t lie to us…
ehehehe
januko Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 1:18 pm

Well, let us hold our horses. Artest has not signed yet. Yes, he agreed but we have to fully enjoy it once he finally signed and ODOM! What about him? He MUST be signed!

Artest? Yeah, critics say he’s a ball hog, erratic, have poor shot selection but when he is good and cooperative, watch out! I think he has a commitment to win despite not making that much money. There are only few players who will commit to winning and sacrifice huge pay! Let us give Artest our big hand folks! If he finally signs and pledge to be cooperative to the Lakers, let us give him the respect that he deserves.

Man, shame on Ariza! We love Ariza but oh my! Mitch Kupchak just done a hellacious job of not faltering under Ariza’s agent’s whims! I think Ariza should regret the move! Where else do you find a chance to win another ring? Well, money does talk! What a shame! Not a lot of players are content at less than $5 million huh? Tsk, tsk, tsk…

Artest, Odom, Gasol, Kobe, Bynum, a healthy Phil, wow!

The Lakers should then address the improvement in health and skills with Walton, Sasha, Shannon Brown and encourage production from Mbenga, Yue, Morrison and others.

Let go for the 11th ring for coach Phil! 16th banner for LA! 5th for Kobe and Fisher! 2nd for the rest of the Lakers! And 1st for Artest!

Go Lakers!
Ramana Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 1:34 pm

Lakers Inconsistent,

The Lakers were very fortunate to win the Championship. They had a number of opportunities go their way. They were able to receive just about every break on their championship run and to their credit they were fortunate enough to take advantage of each one. They were inconsistent and will continue to be even with Artest.
Bhavik Patel Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 1:54 pm

I like the signing of Ron Artest, but i’m disappointed the lakers couldnt agree to terms with Trevor Ariza. The Lakers offered the full mid-level exception to Ariza or a contract starting at 5.6 million. Ariza ended up signing a deal with the Rockets for 33.5 million. Why didn’t the lakers offer him the same contract or if they did why did he end up signing with Houston. He also claims it wasnt about the money because he turned down a bigger contract from the Raptors.Yeah he should feel respected that he played, so well but its a business you pay by supply and demand. I like the Artest signing, but I think Ariza would be better long term at 24 years old. Hes a younger piece that you could build around in the future after the current dynasty ends. I dont know what the circumstances were, but Im thinking since Arizas agent was playing hardball the lakers signed artest and he got desperate that money was running out in the free agent market, so he ended up signing with the Rockets. I think they should have signed Ariza over Artest since he basically got the same per year salary as Artest from the Rockets. Another reason for this would be because why mess with a team that played so well. They breezed through the playoffs the only team the struggled against was the Rockets,and that was because they didnt really have anyone that could matchup with Aaron brooks speed. Lakers hopefully sign odom. I think without odom next year lakers are screwed unless bynum progresses. Just imagine if we didnt pay sasha 5 million, Luke his 4 or 5 million, and Morrisons 5 million next year, we could have signed artest, ariza, and odom.
Nba | All Days Long Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 2:11 pm

[...] HoopsHype.com NBA Blogs – Eddie Johnson » Artest will star in L.A. By Eddie Johnson whereas in la, artest will go off every once in a while to break the monotony of dominating the west. artest knows he will make it to the western conference finals, if not the nba finals. he will not do anything to mess that up for … HoopsHype.com NBA Blogs – Eddie Johnson – http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/ [...]
Piswgorilla Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 2:32 pm

You got it wrong.
Artest is getting worse fast. He’s slow footed, heavy, can’t keep a good offensive player in front of him anymore, the ball stops moving when it reaches him, jacks up bad shots, is afraid to post up anymore as his shot gets blocked, and is still a knucklehead. LA will be lucky if he’s ONLY unproductive for them. No wonder Houston did not try to re-sign him.

Ariza is getting better and better and will go down as another great steal for D. Morey after that of Scola.
Mikey Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 2:33 pm

How can the lakers resign odom if they useed their mle on artest?
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July 5, 2009 @ 2:47 pm

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aaron franklin Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 3:31 pm

Artest isn’t as good as everyone says. Hes a step slow now, takes bad shots and his handle isn’t good enough to be a first or second option. Hes as strong as ox, long armed and shoots the ball reasonably. I think this gives LA the same odds as last year to win the championship. Orlando, CLevand, Boston in the east and San ANtonio and Dener have all got much better. Orlando is going to be really good with Vince Carter and is my favorite if they get a back up centre and back up combo guard.
San ANtonio is much better this year with Jefferson and a healthy Manu. I think Lawson really helps Denver out. As La has no one to match up with a small water bug like Lawson
Matt Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 3:49 pm

Did they agree to pick up Morrison’s option, I thought it was a team option? $5 million for him is a joke.

I think Artest is a great signing but he does pound the ball. He must learn how to play in the triangle, Kobe is the only guy who gets to free lance occasionally. Artest is going to have to blend in.
Vasilis Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 3:55 pm

So how exactly is Pau going to get his touches now with *two* ball-hogs in the game and Bynum’s inability to pass? He was even complaining this year!
By the way, I am not saying that this is a bad thing, I’m just saying that he’s not going to be happy..
Dave Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 3:57 pm

This team is going to have a chance to beat the 96 Chicago Bull’s 72-game win record.

They really have 5 All-Stars on the team.

Kobe Bryant - Likely MVP next year.
Pau Gasol - Top 12 player next year.
Andrew Bynum - Top 15 player next year.
Lamar Odom - Legitimate All-Star if on most teams.
Ron Artest - Legitimate All - Star

Artest will be Defensive MVP.
Kobe will win MVP, be on all Defesnive First team.
Odom will win 6th man Award.
Phil Jackson will win coach of the year
Team will win championship.

What are the Lakers needs.

#1) Find some way to DUMP Luke Walton and Sasha Vujacic, bad contracts for some expiring contract. I was hoping this would be for Mike Miller, but Miller is now on the Wizards. This creates the cap flexibility needed…and it is easier to dump these guys now after they have won the championship then after a year of not playing legite minutes.

#2) Sign someone who can play PG, that is someone who can consistently knock down open 3 pointers, is a strong defender and smart passer…doesn’t need to be a scorer or someone who can drive.

#3) Sign 1-2 minimum salary post players..I’d take Joe Smith and Nesterovic.

You will have a very strong team.

Next year when Fisher retires or even if he stays, sign free agent Mike Miller who at 6′8″ would be an excellent PG, SG, or SF in triangle..is only 30 years old….sign him for 4 years $18 million or so, under mid-level, last year team option…he would be perfect pg for triangle and allows for big lineup..

Oh..by the way….re-sign Odom…if you can dump Walton/Vujacic for an expirin contract then re-sign Odom….mid-level for 4 years is 4 years $24 million….just sign him for 4 years $28 million so he makes $1M a year over the mid-level and $1.5 million a year more then another team could give him over the contract…He’ll be happy.

Artest has to focus on being a consistent 3PT shooter..improving % from 40% to 44%, improving overall shooting to 45% he will be a huge asset..the lakers need to always have two lights out 3 pt shooters..

Phil Jackson will want Walton to stay but Buss has to push him out…this guy is garbage…

Oh yeah, Morrison has to be flat out dumped….just pay a team $1M to just take the contract..this creates a trade excemption….and saves $10M with luxury tax…if Walton/Vujacic are traded for someone injured whose salary is covered by insurance then…they then save $10M as well….they need to do these things..
wallace Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 4:20 pm

The lakers need to call Kevin Garnett and thank him for getting hurt. its the only reason they won, that being said, this laker team is a good laker team so we will see what happends. not sure if they can do it without Odom. his play is needed for them to win. Artest is much better than ariza. who is going bang the boards with garnett, Duncan, shaq and company, Gasol! i dont think so. we will see what happends.
Jeff Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 4:43 pm

Eddie,

I agree with you on this assessment. I loved Ariza and badly wanted him to resign with the Lakers. That being said, Artest is MUCH more talented than Trevor. The Lakers perimeter defense will be scary with Kobe and Ron. It also give the Lakers the ability to let Kobe rest and have Ron man up on the other teams best scorer. We will miss you Trevor. I think you blew it. You let your agent control the situation. I think you will find at the end of your career that this was the biggest mistake of your life.

Good article Eddie…
jerome a Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 5:16 pm

as an laker faithful since the magic johnson days, all you doubters are crazy, while I appreciate the efforts of ariza, ron artest is probably the best small forward in the game today, and andrew bynum was about 50 percent healthy, can’t imagine how good the lakers are going to be this year, kobe finally got talented players who want to win as much as he wants to,sorry boston & cleveland the lakers just got too much talent.
adklajdsfj Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 5:23 pm

first of all, great pickup for the Lakers franchise. However, people think that Ariza made a bad choice by going to the Rockets. I personally do not agree on that. Ariza will never win MVP or be an all-star. He’s got a ring now, so.. the only thing left for him is money. I cannot fault him on that, I never felt that he wanted to stay in the first place. Right now there’s really nothing for him to go after other than money. Whether or not Rockets will be playoff-bound or not it really doesn’t matter to him. people think he made the wrong choice but I think he’s simply looking after himself. If Lakers really wanna keep him, then pay him up and he will stay, but Lakers do not want to pay him more than his fair market value which I totally understand. Whether or not Ariza will shine again does not really matter to him, he just wants the money.
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July 5, 2009 @ 5:27 pm

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eddie Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 5:52 pm

adklajdsfj

You are correct, but remember also when you win and get older—you make more money over the long run. He will find out this was a big mistake.

I am still a Laker hater, but i always give them their due. You guys always read and run with the one negative quote even if i write a positive article. I don’t blame you for loving your team it’s all good.
I too beleive they could win 70 plus games, but it will not mean anything because if they win next year they have to go through one the biggest road blocks in NBA history

San Antonio, Portland and Denver in the West and then Orlando, Boston, Cleveland and quite possibly Toronto in the East.

i do agree that they are the favorites to get it done.

twitter——-jumpshot8—— follow me and get up to date info.
eddie Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 5:58 pm

sdfsdf Said,
July 5, 2009 @ 11:41 am

thanx eddie. everytime u say something or make a prediction. 99.9% of the time it backfires.EX. Shawn Marion top 25 player (hahahaha) dwight howard a dominant center (hahahahaha) magic winning the finals (hahahahaha) keep them coming

Let me make one more prediction: you probably have never stood up in front of the class and answered a question from your teacher—- you have never had the guts to ask your boss for a raise——you probably have a girlfriend that you love, but are scared to ask her to marry you because she might say no.

Lesson don’t be afraid and never be critical of someone who does. They call those people LOSERS LOL
Steve Kerr Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 6:54 pm

The only problem I could see is Ron Artest’s comparably inconsistent three-point shooting. Luke Walton might end up getting more minutes than he did with Ariza in the line-up.

I still think this is an improvement and Lakers will be back to the Finals.
Trott Felipe Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 8:10 pm

Flakey LA. Of course he’ll be a star. Last year he was a douchebag. Now he’s “LA’s Rodman” and they “love” him.
Pete Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 8:12 pm

I am no fan, no hater of the lakers, but you’re abs right Eddie (winning earns money on the long run and Ariza is very young): Ariza made a big-big mistake, and i believe he already knows it, and does not sleep well. His agent totally miscalculated and misled him.

One the free agent signings so far.
Everyone talks about talent but no one mentions chemistry.
Jefferson, Carter, Artest, Shaq they all sign with contenders but they could also well be ‘misfits’ if the chemistry simply does not work. We have seen it before. This is also true for the lakrs/Artest deal.

In the lakers’ case it will also come down to the mood in the locker room next season; and - probably - that is what matters the most.
The lakers do have some really bad assets. Just look at the ballast they carry: Morrison, Vujacic, Walton, and even Bynum (!)… they all get salaries next season, they do not deserve. How this will affect the mood and the chemistry ??? Can anyone predict?
With Odom leaving (most likely) - and they do not have the cap room to sign a strong PF - their bench weakens… a lot.
So, when you say that the starting line-up will be relieved by Artest added, you are mistaken.

On the Artest/Ariza swap. It is all true. Ariza is quicker than Artest, runs the floor better. Artest got one step slower in the past years and became a boll-hog. He has never been a good passer, (neither was Ariza). With Bynum (who wanted to score on almost every single possession he had in the last game of the finals), Kobe and Artest desperately wanting to score (poor Gasol), the ‘famous’ LA offense might be less effective and their ‘just ok’ defense got one-step slower with the Ariza/Artest swap. And, do not forget, the lakers got older with this transaction.
aka_USAPA Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 8:43 pm

Steve — I find it hilarious that you think Walton will now play more minutes now that Artest is in L.A. because of 3-point shooting. Afterall, Walton is so consistent beyond the arc. LOL.
sdfsdf Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 8:46 pm

ANOTHER FAILED shot in the dark. lmao You are hilarious. i think the people who CONSTANTLY make the wrong predictions are the LOSERS lmao. That is a TERRIBLE metaphor. Being bold and outspoken in life doesn’t equal not KNOWING anything about a profession you played professionally. And yet I captured your attention for a response lol keep them coming
Joey Deegeling Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 8:50 pm

Artest and the triangle dont mix…

Lakers set up offense, good movement occurs, ball goes into Artest….

dribble dribble dribble dribble *offense stagnates* brick!
lakersfan381 Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 8:56 pm

Hey Eddie I’m glad we got Ron..but will really miss Ariza. Hard for me to really believe it was more so him wanting the money rather than his agent wanting to get a bigger commission check. “it was never about the money, it was about respect”..uhm if theyre referring to money as a sign of respect…then isn’t it really about the money Mr. Black? SMH
Samuel Contreras Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 9:40 pm

Well said, Eddie, about Artest AND Ariza…
Hou2008 Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 10:17 pm

Ariza did not leave the Lakers because of money. The Lakers originally offered the Artest deal to Ariza, who instead left the Lakers and signed with the Rockets for the same MLE (two years longer, but since Ariza is only 24, it’s a better deal from the team’s perspectice). Ariza actually turned down the MLE from the Cleveland and $9 million more from the Raptors. He obviously thinks that the Rocs are a better fit for him.

The deals work for both teams. The Rocs are retooling and will be a lottery team next season, which is why they made just a half hearted attempt to resigning Artest (the last offer was a one year deal). The Lakers got better and interesting (wait till Ron Ron shows up in practice in his bath robe, and demand a month off for promoting his music). As a Rockets fan, I am glad that Ariza took less money to sign with the Rockets. But I am glad that he did.
Eleanor Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 10:19 pm

I can smell the next 2 world championship rings ahead of us. I think i have to request for days off for the next championship parades. Hats off to GM Mitch Kupchak.
chanman Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 10:45 pm

PLEASSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE….how can u say the NBA is fixed Winkstrap?? so vince carter to ORL was fixed? shaq to cleveland? RJ to spurs?? people just cant stop hating on the lakers, the lakers are like the yankees…but in this case the stars actually get paid to win a championship.

Ron Artest is a major pick up for LAL i was surprised. if u recall couple years back RON RON said he dreams of teaming up with kobe one day to dominate the NBA…well, he got his wish and i got mine, Lakers will be tough to beat next season, and if they get odom back the second unit can probly win some games by themselves. im not gonna make any predictions but both conferences are gonna be very competitive next season
D'Francias Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 10:48 pm

We totally agree with you Eddie. We sure will miss Ariza because he helped us win this year but he really made a mistake turning down the Lakers’ offer and with Artest willing to take the Mid-level exception salary, it made the Lakers more dangerous team than last year. Thanks to Ariza for turning down the offer because that’s how d’ Lakers wind up signing Artest instead.Congratulation to Mitch Kupchak for the job well done. Looking forward having my whole family at the next Championship parades and we hope our Dallas folks will be able to join us as well.
Boi Boi Said,

July 5, 2009 @ 11:39 pm

LAKERS WON DA CHAPIONSHIP WIT ARIZA & NOW WE REPLACED HIM WIT A ARTEST…A BETTA SCORER REBOUNDER PASSER HAS A POST UP GAME ETC…

I SMELL A REPEAT!
kingsblade Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 12:29 am

I wonder how Kobe will enjoy Artest’s penchant for the “15 second dribble fade-away shot from 1 step inside the 3-point line.”
Ian Q. Cruz Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 12:39 am

I’m a laker fan, but the Celtics has Wallace, Garnet, Pierce, Allen, and now aiming for Grant Hill??? Wow! what an exciting season ahead.
Julio Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 1:00 am

Dave, i liked what you said and your views were very well thought of… the only thing i dont agree with are about 1) Luke/Sasha and 2) Adam Morrison… it would be impossible to trade Luke’s contract because he still has 4 years left and no team will take on that much money/years for a non-starting role player… Sasha has 2 years left and is young so a team might be interested in him, if not this year then next… but if they can move them they should but its unlikely… Morrison is 25 years old and is on a loaded team so he doesnt need to be the man/franchise like they needed him to be with the Bobcats… he will have a whole off-season and training camp with the best coaching staff in the league so lets not kick him off the team yet… they did a good job with building up Trevor so give them a chance to help out Morrison… if we can tap his potential it will be another steal for the Lakers and Mitch… if we cant do it no one will…
Lefty Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 4:19 am

….I actually read every single comment

Laker fan since `93.
Fav Laker: Van Exel

I liked Ariza. I was hoping he would re-sign, but when the reports came out that he was unhappy with how Kupchak told him to try to find a deal and they would then decide whether or not to match, I knew he was gone. Ariza basically took the same amount per year to go to Houston as LA was offering. Houston did give him extra years, but that means nothing. He’s a youngin. I love Artest in purple and forum blue. Hes an obvious upgrade from Trevor. Trevor is younger and more athletic. But RonRon is a beast. One of the best 2-way players in the league, even now at his age. Trevor’s main commodity was his defense, but I’d argue that RonRon is still the better On-the-ball defender than Trevor. Trevor gambled a lot and he jumped passing lanes. RonRon bodies and locks you down. While Ron won’t be able to guard PGs, he’ll be able to push PFs where Trevor couldnt. You compare FG%, but I’d like to see Trevor’s FG% when he’s asked to force up jumpers off the dribble and take shots he not accustomed to. RonRon’s FG% is a product of Houston depending him to take bad shots half the time. The other half, he willingly takes them, but he won’t have to in LA. As good a fit Trevor was in LA, he was nothing but a role player. You dont pay a role player THAT much money. No need to compare him with other bad signings (Sasha, Luke, Bynum), but you dont justify a bad contract with other bad contracts. Morrison is a 5-6 million expiring contract so we can use him to get someone else. Ariza was lights out from 3, but I’m pretty sure Kupchak believes it was a fluke. If Trevor continues and hits 50% of his 3s in Houston, I will apologize. In a nutshell…..Artest > Ariza.

And who is that clown who keeps saying we have a legitimate 5 all-star squad in LA? I only see 2 Allstars, maybe 3 with Ron if they completely dominate the West. Lamar and Bynum? Are you kidding me? Bynum will have to do more than post 5 pts and 5 rebounds to be a “legitimate” allstar. Ths kid needs to grow up and realize that he is not in there to score. Once he realizes that, and just focus on rebounding and blocking shots, he WILL be an allstar. I say 8-10 pts, 11-12 rebounds, 3 blocks will get in on the allstar team and maybe even on the olympic squad. But Drew needs to know that scoring is not going to get him anywhere. Someone PLEASE tell him to focus on rebounding and blocking shots, and then maybe the offense will come along with recognition.
Lefty Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 4:27 am

RonRon taking less money to go to LA…NBA fixed? Kupchak pulling a McHale? I don’t think so. Yea, RonRon has been underpaid his whole career, but I don’t believe money rules his world. This is the same guy who worked at Best Buy or Radio Shack, remember? Was RonRon getting ridiculous longterm deals elsewhere? I would imagine he was getting slightly better deals elsewhere, but coming to LA gives him a realistic chance to play in June. For some, that right there is worth 1-2 million in itself.

RJ going to the spurs didnt bother me. Shaq to Cleveland doesnt matter. Vince going to Orlando, ehhhh. But Sheed going to Boston….
All I know is I can’t wait for the season to start! Much like all the haters are waiting for Artest to blow up in LA, I am waiting for the same thing to happen in Boston. I hope they still find a way to trade rondo and ray.
Antony Sanchez Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 5:01 am

Eddie- Artest is not a passer he’s a ball hog and yeah he shoots the shot as the shot clock expires because he held it after dribbling in circles and chucked it. I’m hoping for the best as a Laker fan from the Artest signing (though its still technically not official until July 8th because that’s the earliest free agents can sign the dotted line) but I’m not going to get blinded and say this is going to work out 100%. I have some healthy doubts about how Artest is going t fit in and I am going to keep my fingers crossed that hell be on his best behavior

Holla Bolla- Your not using the reasoning done when Mitch made these moves.Trading for Kwame at the time was a good risk, I mean you have kobe at the 2 and Odom at the 3 and at that time Butler played primarily the 2 so why have a back up 2 guard when at that time kobe played 42 min a game and Butler was no where close to being an all star back then…so why have a back up making millions when you can risk trading for Kwame. a former number 1 pick that HAD potential even thought he just didn’t know how to tap into it.
And Luke Walton had a terrific season as the starting SF the year he got payed, he was 24 and was good for 11 5 and 5 a game I can see why mitch payed him the cash.

Ramana - the Lakers route to a championship wasn’t a lucky break. It sure had its moments were things went right but didn’t all championship teams have that? I recall fisher hit a shot with .04 seconds that won the game for the Lakers a few years back. Also I remember Rasheed Wallace sagging off Horry to double team Manu only to have Horry hit a game winning 2 for the Spurs a few years ago. Point is, it doesn’t matter how good a team is, all champions need a little bit of luck to win a ring

Mickey- the Lakers can resign Odom using bird rights. What that means is because he has played on their team for at least three years straight that same team can spend as much money as they want on the player even if they are over the cap or luxury line.

Jerome a- Look I love the lakers just as much as the next dude but don’t get carried away and call Artest the best SF in the league. Did you forget about some player …(oh what was his name?) …perhaps Lebron James I think. Yah that was the name, I think he is just a tad bit better the Artest, but only ever so slightly.

Hou2008- its actually not better for Ariza to get a 5 year deal, because o this. Artest signed a 3 year deal which means after his contract expires he will have bird rights which mean he can demand how ever much he wants after that deal (probably around 10 million) while Ariza is stuck with a contract with no opt outs or player options in it.
Novio Magus Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 5:19 am

Eddy,

Like some already wrote, I dont think Ron-Ron will flourish in LA. He’s not a spot up shooter, dribbles too much and passes to get an assist instead of to swing the ball.
He takes bad shots and needs too many shots (those shots should go to Kobe and Gasol).
He’s most effective backing players down but in that way he disrupts the triangle offense. He’s not the passing lane hawk Ariza is so no easy baskets of steals and hardly any fast breaks.
Artest will be like Payton on the Lakers; only good when he plays his way.

Artest will help defend Melo but thats about it. Come may next year we’ll see, read and wonder how Artest got to shoot the ball 15 times (for 4) in a loss to the Spurs and Gasol got only 6 shots making 5.

I agree that Ariza will have a hard time in Houston because he’s a third or fourth banana who has to play 1st or 2nd with Yao and McGrady out
Holla Bolla Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 7:40 am

BLOG POLL:

Who is more sensitive: Eddie or Shaq?

Tough call, but I will say Eddie.

Before you answer, don’t be overwhelmed by Shaq’s monster exterior. Sensitivity is an emotion, all inside.

Eddie, just because you write “LOL” after retaliating vs. a couple jabs doesn’t mean we can’t see right through you.

Pretty obvious that you can’t take criticism. Chill out man..it’s just a sports blog.

LOL
Michael Bennett Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 7:45 am

For those who think Artest is not going to fit into the Lakers’ system… Why wouldn’t he? What makes you think he’ll “dribble, dribble, dribble” and uncontrollably hoist threes?

He wants to win a championship. Period. My guess is that he went to Kobe (after that game 7) and told him he’s going to be a Laker in 09-10 - he probably asked Kobe “What do you need? And, I’ll do it.”

What he’s going to provide the Lakers is TOUGHNESS, DEFENSE (on the 2, 3 and 4) and a great set of offensive tools. This makes the Lakers the best starting lineup in the NBA (which I think Eddie was saying Orlando WAS more talented in their starting lineup - and I agreed). And, they’ll still have Odom coming off the bench.

Here’s how I see the 2009-10 season - there are four teams out of the West and four teams out of the East.

WEST

- LAL (THE best team in the NBA)

- PORTLAND (if they can pick up a great player this summer, they will add the 54 wins of last year - David Lee would make them a very tough team to beat)

- SAN ANTONIO (Richard Jefferson gives them another explosive player in an offense that would sometimes be stale - stale no more)

- DENVER (last year’s trip to the WCF and a full year with Chauncey will pay off)

EAST

- CAVS (LeBron will make life very easy for Shaq and vice versa - this is unprecedented for LeBron - he’s never had a true post player, except for All-Star games where he has two MVPs out of five trips)

- BOSTON (Old, yes. But, let me get this straight - Sheed, Garnett, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce?!?!? This is gonna be fun… if healthy - assumed)

- ORLANDO (the Vinsanity move is overrated - Hedo will be missed, but Dwight Howard will just get better and more dominant over the next ten years)

- TORONTO (Colangelo understands the importance of a 6′10″ ballhandler… and how matching him up with a player like Bosh will be a tough matchup for all teams)
Porky Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 8:21 am

Eddie- as a Laker hater, thank you for saying Artest will be a hit. Since you are usually wrong in your analysis, this actually means that Artest will be a failure. Thanks again, Eddie!
Brenda Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 9:33 am

Sorry people, but the Celtics were the best team this past season, and they improved themselves with picking up Rasheed Wallace.
They are the best team again……and Red is reaching for another cigar.
A man who plays the holly game... Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 10:40 am

I don’t think picking up Artest makes them any better, Artest had the stats and Ariza had the game, I also just do not think that Ariza fits in with the rockets he needs a player to look up to on the Rockets like how he had Kobe, but it doesn’t seem like their is a major leader on that team… Im predicting them maybe winning 50-53 games getting the third spot… I don’t know how the rockets are going to do I say 42-47 wins this season maybe making the eighth spot why I say the rockets wont have a good season is because Y. Ming is out…
LYXO Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 10:43 am

So since this is reported by Eddie Johnson, there’s no chance of it actually happening.
P Lewis James Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 10:54 am

Let’s slow down people and look at this thing! First the Lakers won the championship but they are not the most talented team in the league,
even with Artest. As great as Kobe is the Lakers could not have won the championship without major contributions from Arizia and Odom.
Next they have an aging point guard in Fisher. Who is the heir apparent? If they are honest, and put aside the euphoria of winning a title. Laker fans will admit that Bynum was a disapointment. Also, the other teams are not exactly sitting on there hands. The Spurs, Celtics, Cavs and Majic have all improved their teams. I would give them a very good chance to knock off the Lakers especially if they don’t resign Odom.
Salaner Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 11:07 am

Eddie Johnson is a master at stating the obvious. He also has such a chip on his shoulder vis-à-vis the Lakers (remember - the team with less talent than the Magic?) that it’s comical. Just re-read his lead paragraph: “When it looks like this franchise might be on an elevator going down, they find a way to re-direct it back up again.” Now - who the heck, except Eddie Johnson, was thinking that this young team, recently crowned as NBA champs, might be “on an elevator going down”? That’s a preposterous statement - just as his article on the superior-but-defeated Magic was.
chanman Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 11:10 am

Did anyone actually WATCH the finals?? or any of the laker series? if u did then u would know bynum might as well have sit out the post season…he obviously wasnt ready physically, and u cant just ask a 22 yr old kid to come back from a serious injury and hop right back into rhythm in the most grueling part of the season!! ANY coach or ppl that know basketball can tell u that. i expect a more prepared bynum next season, if lamar comes back then the lakers are the most talented team. Farmar and vujajic had shooting slumps in the play offs, so what they can still play. shan brown’s gonna be huge with his speed, 3s, and athleticism. all the guys on that team now have championship experience and are hungrier to get another one!!
jay o. Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 11:45 am

what is happening now in the NBA is like countries stockpiling nuclear weapons in preparation of war, only a handful will be powerhouses and the rest will be mediocre at best.

As for Artest joining the Lakers, it makes the team interesting but not an automatic championship team next season. Lets face it, Artest will always be Artest and sooner or later he will clash with Kobe. Artest is still too young and talented to accept what Ariza did for the team last season. He is not yet old and desperate for a championship, he still thinks that he is one of the best in the NBA and will never fully embrace being a role player. remember you are putting two of the most dynamic, brash, abrasive, talented and arrogant players in the NBA on one team, i’m telling you guys, that is one hell of a combustible combination that will prevent the Lakers from repeating next season.
frank B Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 11:47 am

I am so frightened. I actually agree wtih Eddie and Michael Bennett!

Please, please don’t jinx this you guys!

In the parallel universe of this Laker team to the Phil Jackson/Michael Jordan Bulls, this is the new improved version of Dennis Rodman!

Of course they aren’t really similar players, but they both add a dimension to the squad that could potentially push the Lakers into greatness and repeated championships just like those Bulls teams.

Now the toughest guy on the team isn’t our point guard. We no longer have to send our shooting guard over to cover other team’s small forwards. We don’t have to fear Lebron, Carmelo, and Pierce anymore. Kobe does his best covering these guys, but imagine how he’ll be able to close out games if he hasn’t had to wear himself out covering the other teams best scorer the whole game?

Kudos to Kupchak and the Busses. This year they were paying Odom and Ariza a combined $16 mill or so. For $6 million they now have made Lamar a luxury, not a necessity. But what a luxury!

Lamar appears to be smarter than Trevor was. He recognizes the value of being part of something special so I would expect him to sign for $8 to $9million which will keep the Laker’s expenses in line.

Trevor kind of got played. He is a role player. Artest is a star. If Trevor turns out to be a star, I think that all Laker’s fans will be happy for him. We appreciate his steely resolve and his will to win. But he’s not a star yet.
Antony Sanchez Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 11:51 am

Michael Bennett- My opinion of Artest fitting into the triangle comes from the houston-lakers series. I watched each game closely and all I saw out of Artest is a lot of chucking the brick with 20 seconds on the shot clock. But yu like you said he wants to win so maybe he won’t. But then we start to get thinkin, Ron-Ron is in Los Angeles! A town with a million more things to get distracted with then Houston. You said it yourself, he wants to win right now, but what if he doesn’t want to tomorrow? What if he wants a month off to make a rap album or shoot a movie? Artest changes his mind VERY frequently, as evidenced by he decision last year to NOT opt out of his contract with the kings only to say it was the worst desicion ever just a few days after oupting out and saying he wants to be a King. Or what about this offseason. Artest planed on signing to a contract to the Rockets, but once he heard about Yao Ming he changed his mind. Plain and simple I really find it hard to see Artest fitting into the triange and am skeptical on if he can be commited for a full season plus play offs plus a finals series.
lakers fan 4ever Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 12:23 pm

i think who ever think that the lakers n the nba are making some scam you are all hater or celtics fans.dont hate the lakers for getting their self better and have a better opportunity to win it all again cause you know that they would do it again. also don’t hate artest just because he wants to get a ring before leaves the nba an he fit just right along with the best player in the nba i mean in the world mr kobe bryant
Mike G Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 12:38 pm

Very true eddie, it looks like ariza let his agent make his decision for him. Ariza struggles to shoot while on the move and won’t have the wide open looks Kobe and company afforded him. Another geat move by Kupchak who targeted Ariza a few years ago with the trade but I guess he (Ariza) didn’t feel wanted like he did back then.

The fact that they upgraded and got a bettter player in Artest after ariza felt slapped in the face by a pultry 6 million dollar a year contract to play with the lakers is brilliant. After all Artest is cheaper, better, and doesn’t care about whatn his agent’s commission is, he just wants to win. Artest will get his ring in LA and Ariza will suffer in mediocrity wondering what might have been if he would make his own desicons.
eddie Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 12:59 pm

BLOG POLL:

Who is more sensitive: Eddie or Shaq?

Tough call, but I will say Eddie.

Before you answer, don’t be overwhelmed by Shaq’s monster exterior. Sensitivity is an emotion, all inside.

Eddie, just because you write “LOL” after retaliating vs. a couple jabs doesn’t mean we can’t see right through you.

Pretty obvious that you can’t take criticism. Chill out man..it’s just a sports blog.

LOL

Man please! i grew up in a family of “signafiers” i can honestly say not one blooger on here has ever gotten under my skin. i love talking smack http://www.jumpshotclub.com read the blog bio Holla. dont mix my responses with me being mad. i assume some of you think you can get me mad, but most of the time me and my boys that read this are cracking up. Holla

Twitter id jumpshot8
xMO Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 1:33 pm

Eddie, good article..now you’re in our bandwagon for a change. I remember all the past articles you wrote against the Lakers . The Lakers proved you wrong and I hope now they can prove you right.
RocketsFanCody Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 1:47 pm

As a Houston fan I can agree with the article to an extent. The Lakers are no doubt getting a good player in Artest. Now that he has the contract they are always going to have to worry about his mindset. Ariza is the better long-term bet as he is younger, more athletic, and has room to grow. He grew a ton last year and he will continue to do so. For all the Houston pessimists, I should remind you that they aren’t finished yet. They will move McGrady’s contract, so don’t even worry about McGrady not playing. The more immediate concern is Yao. If they move McGrady for the right pieces, they still have solid players on the team and they are going to play hard every night. By the way, I would be careful in being quick to call the Lakers the best team in the NBA. Cleveland added Shaq (who will play much better with Lebron this year) to an already great team, and they are still making moves as well. The Celtics added Sheed which makes their bench that much more talented, especially if they add Hill to the mix. Orlando added Carter, which will bring out the best you’ve see from him in a while because he is on a winning team. Not to mention the Spurs added RJ to a solid veteran team and they should be healthier this year. The Lakers might not even be the best team in the West if the Spurs stay healthy. The Nuggets will still be in the mix. So you have six legit teams for sure in the league. The Lakers might have been smart to add Artest right now, but the future remains unsure. No one knows right now what the case will be in April of next year. By the way, for all the Kobe fans, please read the stuff Bill Simmons writes on ESPN.com. To call Kobe a coach on the floor and leader is a joke. His teammates don’t listen to him. I can name many other players EASILY that I would call a better leader than Kobe. Lebron James, Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Dwayne Wade, Brandon Roy, Kevin Garnett, just to name a few. The media tries to make too much of Kobe in the ear of his teammates. They deflect to him because he is the best player on the floor, most nights. I say most nights because he isn’t as good as Lebron now, and Lebron will only continue to get better. When all the smoke clears you will probably be talking about Kobe in the top 10 of all time, when you will have to debate where in the top 5 of all time that Lebron belongs. We need to hold off handing rings out until April and then if the Lakers are holding the trophy, we can talk.
Today’s Celtics Links 7/6 at New England Sports 24/7 Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 3:08 pm

[...] favored but not a shoe-in Cavman Considers Considering the Celtics’ Moves Hoopshype Artest will star in L.A. Sports of Boston Stephon Marbury: 2008-2009 Celtics Review NBA Roundtable Glen Davis [...]
Eric Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 3:12 pm

This signing has the chance to back fire on the Lakers. Most moves look great in in the summer, but it will be interesting to see how Kobe handles Ron. Kobe often times will yell at his teamates for something they’re doing wrong (not criticizing his leadership)- will he do the same to Ron? How will Ron react?

The comparison of how the Bulls handled Rodman and how the Lakers will handle Ron makes little sense. Rodman had zero impact on the offensive end besides rebounding and being a above average passer. His careless/unselfish approach offensively alowed Jodan and Phil to be successful with him
The wreckless abandon on the defense Artest plays with is carried to the offensive end. He feels he is as dominant on the offensive end as he is on the defensive end. This leads to him trying to take over games and not playing to his strengths. If he’s able to make changes to his game for the entire season, then obviously this is a great move!
Harry Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 3:48 pm

I think given they’re only spending the MLE on a fairly tradeable guy, I like the risk they’re taking, but I’m not sure I entirely agree he’s going to fit. Offensively, what Ron-Ron does is pretty much a poor man’s version of what Kobe does. He likes to post. He likes to dribble. He likes to create with the ball. And he doesn’t pass particularly well, so I’m not sure how he fits in the triangle.

Defensively, I’m pretty well sold. Artest is pretty overrated on the ball, but off the ball, he’s probably the best perimeter defender in the league, better than even Lebron. He’s going to give a guy like KG fits if the Lakers set their defense correctly. And I can’t quite imagine what’s it’s going to be like for an offense matching up with Kobe, Artest and Odom.

That said, I think the Lakers probably should have sucked up their pride and re-signed Ariza at the MLE. The kid just fits better. You don’t need #2, and I can’t see Artest happy being a third wheel offensively. But I’m sure a lot of the old schoolers will beat their chests and point to how Ron-Ron plays defense like they used to in the old days and completely overlook the fact the dude has never shown he can share with two other premier scorers in the offense.
Gorek Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 3:55 pm

i think Ron Artest can definitely take the load off of Kobe Bryant defensively especially in big games against the Cavs{Lebron}, Celtics{Pierce} and possibly Magic{Carter}. I think its a very good move and not to mention he punishes smaller guards offensively
noyb Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 4:29 pm

Lakers lucky Orlando knocked off Boston and Cleveland. Letting Ariza go was a mistake. Artest will struggle in Triangle Offense next year. Bynum’s a bust (will probably get hurt, AGAIN). Fisher gets another year older. Lakers don’t make ‘10 Finals. ‘Nuff sed.
RocketsFanCody Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 4:31 pm

I completely agree with Harry. Artest is tough, but erratic. Most of last year he didn’t even play with McGrady and Yao both together. He would have had a harder time adjusting to the Rockets if both would have been healthy all year. As far I can tell, he wouldn’t have even started for the Rockets, nor would I have started him, if the stars had been healthy. If I were Adelman, given a one year deal and his ability to score, I would have had him off the bench, spelling Battier and McGrady. He played well in Houston because he was number 2, by default. He was a good teammate last year, but that’s because he didn’t have any dominant personalities to contend with like the Lakers have. Kobe is always going to be option 1, and Gasol will always be after him. Then you have Bynum, Odom, and a mix of other guys to defer to. There is no guarantee that Artest will always get the ball when he wants it, and I don’t know how well that will sit with him. Ron had a bad tendency to hoist up unneccessary shots as a Rocket and as a fan it would cause you to cringe and shake your head. Ron is a perfect example of a one man ying yang. Sometimes he’s the best player on the floor, and other times you are wondering what he is doing. I don’t know if anyone, let alone Artest, knows what he is doing. Kobe will try and lead him, but it’s up to Artest to follow. With that said, and the fact that I don’t like the Lakers, I will say that the Lakers have the potential to blow up, or blow up. They can blow up and run people out of the building and win 65 games in route to winning the championship. Or they can have problems with too many personalities all year and blow each other up and fall way short. Artest can play basketball, no one denies that. What the realist are looking at is what kind of basketball will he play. If he defers to his teammates and accepts the shots he’s given, the Lakers will be hard to compete with. If he plays like he did with the Rockets and tries to create his own shot, neither Kobe, Phil, or anyone in Lakerland will be happy. The trend of former superstars taking a backseat to the team concept, doesn’t always work. The Pistons demoted Iverson to the bench last year when it didn’t work, and look where he’s at. It is all still to be determined, but it should be an interesting road along the way.
hoopfan Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 5:46 pm

eddie you should be in the hall of fame for this article! you were on point in every aspect. trevor is a fool if he thinks he can actually put up big time numbers. this isnt high school buddy. i wont even say college, because i really dont remember him doin nada over there. trevor did what, it seems, most athletes do…get a title and now looks for the big pay off. trevor pulled a “sasha”, got hot at the right time and is gonna get paid for it. let it be known, trevor is not a “shooter”, it will be seen next season (sorry rocket fans). you guys gave us a BMW in exchange for a ford taurus. enough said, ron is a better on-ball defender witha big body (for the likes of carmelo, LBJ, and teams best players). kobe can finally get a lil rest on the defensive end.
Craig Bailey Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 5:46 pm

Everyone is talkin about Artest dribbling too much and taking bad shots but u fail to mention that in Houston b cuz of T Mac being out and having a very young PG Artest was asked to handle to ball a lot. And when he started being reckless with the ball, there was nobody on the team that kept the ball away from him. The triangle offense doesn’t work like that, the guards have the ball a lot and its based on ball movement and Kobe is a big enough figure to demand the ball and keep it out of Artest hands if need be.

Some of u need to stop downplaying Ron Ron’s intelligence, he may have done crazy things in the past but he isn’t stupid. He knows Kobe is the man. And they will not clash despite wat ESPN wants to say. They r actually very close and have known each other since their teen years.

Overall a great move by the Lakers, resign LO then they have a great chance of repeating.
chanman Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 9:06 pm

ok..how bout this. since rocketfancody said dont talk about it til they win finals next year then why waste your time speculating. once the lakers won the finals ppl start sayin “oh it would’ve been different if KG played”, “the lakers got lucky”…really?? the celtics almost lost the the bulls in the first round, rondo shud’ve gotten ejected throwin bows in the games. then what happened in the second round? ray allen and paul pierce cant do it by themselves anymore and their defense was non existent. then the cavs…i read somewhere above that they were already a great team last season, best record in the NBA, then what happened?? great that the blow thru the first 2 rounds playin the pistons and hawks. then they finally get a legit team and lost 4-1…i dont think great teams do that. You can say the same about the lakers when they had tough series agains rockets and denver, but in the end they came out on top, if their bench werent in a shooting slump they would’ve won easily. sooooo the point here is why cant u HATERS just give the lakers their due?? because they have the best closer in the game. now they get a good player in artest and all of a sudden everybody says its a fraud, its fixed….come on now, the hate just never stops
RocketsFanCody Said,

July 6, 2009 @ 11:00 pm

I’m not hating on the Lakers for winning. They played well and beat the team on the other side straight up. What I’m talking about is the season to come. People are trying to crown LA champs already for next season just because they signed Artest. The Lakes brought Payton and Malone in and people said the same thing. They tried to give them the title prematurely and they got nowhere. We just need to be patient and see how it plays out. I will, however, stick to my earlier point and say that Kobe is not a leader. You can see the disinterested looks on his teammates faces when he tries to coach them. This season will be long for Lakerland and they won’t breeze through the league. ALL the good teams got better and so did others that were on the cusp. For now we have to stick to opinions and debate the unknown because all we do know is that we don’t know what will happen.
CARL VINCENT Said,

July 7, 2009 @ 1:06 am

top 5 player of the conference

1.Anthony Carmelo
2.Kobe Bryant
3.Lebron James
4.Paul Gasol
5.Dwane wade
oohah Said,

July 7, 2009 @ 1:50 am

So Eddie’s big eye-opening analysis is that replacing Ariza with Artest improves the Lakers? Genius!

I have another earth-shattering observation: If the Lakers replace Derek Fisher with Tony Parker that would also be an improvement!

oohah
RobTaipei Said,

July 7, 2009 @ 2:14 am

I have had respect for Eddie’s views on the technical aspects of shooting (of course) and team play (his prediction about the US Worlds poor showing), but it looks like his “predictions” (Orlando in 6 and Artest the second coming) are designed more to elicit responses than products of basketball analysis. In that, he surely succeeds and the topic is well selected, being a very interesting both as basketball and personalities topics. Like anybody shown wrong, he finds reasons for his prediction (Orlando has better players top-down …), and they are not necessarily wrong; it’s a game of inches (Lee’s final touch scoop and Howard’s free throws to name two of many), who can really predict the outcome of two fairly evenly matched teams?

Now for the topic. Houston watchers know about Artest after a season of observation, and the comments were right on, dribble, dribble, dribble, and a 3 (oh, it went in!), or lose the ball; meanwhile everybody else is wondering what to do. He was as bad a ball-stopper as McGrady at his worst, but TMac is infinitely more offensively talented, so his ball-stopping is more warranted. Artest probably has matured, we all do, and there is a chance that he will accept a role as defensive-stopper (and not ball-stopper) on the Lakers, but I doubt it; even those roles are (deservedly) reserved for Kobe at crunch time.

As for the triangle, my understanding is that it is primarily Fisher (Odom), Kobe, and Gasol moving at the vertices of the floating triangle and the shot coming from the free vertice. Kobe and Gasol are superb passers, Fisher and Odom good, how does Artest fit in there? He might be a hidden passing machine, but we saw none of that in Houston, Sacramento, Indiana etc. In the second unit, in place of Odom, the Artest, Bynum, Walton triangle is not going to do it; only Walton can pass, Bynum is a black hole, and Artest?, Farmar would be better.

For Laker fans, my advice is whistle in the dark like mad, we did that for a year in Houston. RonRon + Hollywood + Kobe rivalry = trouble. For about a third of the season, Artest will be the good soldier, playing defense, rebounding, acting tough, then having sacrificed for the glory of Kobe and Gasol, he will become impatient and demand the ball and more limelight, partly to further his recording career, now reinvigorated in the entertainment capital of the world LA. He gets away from team play, is admonished by Kobe, and …

As pointed out by posters, the analogy with Rodman is off, the latter was no threat to offensive players Jordan and Pippen; who wouldn’t want a non-shooting rebounder doing all the dirty work?? As writers have written, Jackson got too much credit for “taming” Rodman; he just dresses funny, he is the ideal teammate, fulfilling his role to perfection.

Finally, to the line-up lovers. this team is not equal to the sum of its parts; they overlap in bad ways. Bynum never passing, Kobe dominating the ball at crunch times, Gasol needing to be involved to be effective, and Artest demanding recognition. Ariza fit in perfectly at the 3. The only person able to maybe make it work is Fisher, but when he is in he is burned by speedy guards.

Anyway, thanks for reading all this; it will be an interesting season …

RobTaipei
Lefty Said,

July 7, 2009 @ 4:30 am

RocketsfanCody…

you said Kobe will probably end up in the top 10, which will probably be true, and then you follow that up with a ridiculous note about LeBron being in the top5? Do you honestly believe LeBron will end up with even 1 ring, let alone 4?!! if LeBron doesn’t win this year, the guy is NY-bound. and that will be to chase his quest to be the richest athlete ever, which is also impossible because of Tiger Woods.
RocketsFanCody Said,

July 7, 2009 @ 9:30 am

I am glad that RobTaipei showed up with his points. He made very valid and justified arguments for why Artest isn’t a perfect fit for LA. No one is doubting that if everything falls in the line, the Lakers have a chance to be really good this year. I know this blog began with how Artest will star in LA because his circumstances have changed so much. He might be on a better team, with deeper talent, but that in no way guarantees a transition to an automatic championship. The point that people are missing is how much better other teams have gotten at the same time.

Also, I absolutely see Lebron in the Top 5 of all time when he retires. The NBA has never seen one player with the total, overall skill set that Lebron possesses. He can pass like Magic, has the athleticism of Dominique, the ability to bond with his teammates like no other, and the will to win of MJ. Lebron is 24 and only getting better.

Artest in LA is a risk and Kupcheck knows that. Kobe has tried to create a persona that no one is buying into. When he interviews he tries to use a scowl on his face and short answers to convince people how serious he is and that you don’t mess with Kobe. Here’s what I say to that. Whatever. He’s no more street than Reggie Miller was. Kobe grew up in Italy, speaks three languages, and graduated from UCLA. Kobe would be taken serious if he just played basketball and had a real relationship with his team. The high-fives and fist pumps with Gasol and Odom are overrated. At the end of the day, Kobe will get the ball and the attention. If he doesn’t, then it’s bad for everyone else. Phil doesn’t have to really coach the team because he knows that everyone will give Kobe the ball and get out of the way. Kobe is a once in a lifetime talent, so don’t confuse me not buying his image as not believing his ability. Kobe can do things with a basketball that most would only dream of. The problem I have with him is that he tries too hard to prove himself to the public. I’m sure that Kobe didn’t call up Mitch or Jerry and ask about bringing in Artest. I have a feeling that the front office passed the idea through Kobe and Kobe was ok as long as the boat didn’t get rocked. Artest brings a new dimension to the Lakers. The question is whether or not they can handle it. If I was to pick the championship right now, I would begrudingly pick the Celtics in the East, and if healthy, the Spurs in the West. As I said before, the Lakers have a long road to go before they are hoisting up another banner. If I see it happen, I will be the first to come back and say I was wrong and eat my words. We shall see.
Michael Bennett Said,

July 7, 2009 @ 9:33 am

I think a lot of you who are questioning Ron Artest in a Laker jersey should remember that he played a major role in battling the Lakers to SEVEN games in the Western Conference Semis.

A big acquisition like this does this does two things - it provides the Lakers with Artest’s talents AND it removes the talents from another conference rival.

This was the best move of the ‘09 offseason so far. Shaq to Cleveland is a close second. The Lakers spend the MLE on Artest! That alone is genius.

And, give me a break on the Kobe vs. Artest rivalry. Do you people know anything about SPORT? That’s what happens when you play each other. They’re on the same team now. Now, they’re brothers. Some people have short-term memory - Dennis Rodman used to literally pound Jordan into the ground when the Pistons played the Bulls. When he was his teammate, they rode off into the sunset with THREE rings.

Lakers will be unstoppable this season. And, this is coming from a Bulls, LeBron James and Cavs fan - a realist.
jn Said,

July 7, 2009 @ 9:51 am

I don’t see why people compare the Rodman signing with this Artest signing. I would rather compare it with the Horace Grant fiasco, when he decided he was just as good as Jordan or Pippen and pouted.

Phil Jackson did not handle that situation quite so well, it deteriorated into shouting matches and Grant demanding that the Bulls do not make an offer to resign him.
Michael Bennett Said,

July 7, 2009 @ 9:56 am

Uh… I think it’s pretty obvious why people compare Artest to Rodman.

Both are/were known for being feisty, if not problematic.
Both are/were known for their tough defense, in particular.
Both are/were signed to a proven championship caliber team.
Both are/were coming to a team with the best SG in the game.
Both will play/played for Phil Jackson.
Both will play/played in the triangle offense.

NOW do you see why, jn? Not that difficult… If you’re going to come on this message board and discuss with the big boys, you should be ready.
space Said,

July 7, 2009 @ 10:14 am

i disagree.
while older and slightly more mellow. he still has an unpredictable and potentially volatile. rodman to artest. don’t insult rodman. kobe is the only player with teeth that artest would respect. the lineup is too young and has no beef. he’s the only beef boy [no pun intended]. he has to flex to be effective. the lakers cannot afford to hold him back. he did ONE season with houston.
gasol, kobe, bynum, odom…
he’s going to get pissed after three weeks of not scoring.
frank B Said,

July 7, 2009 @ 1:03 pm

RocketsFanCody:

Have you ever heard of a paragragh?

Is there any organization to your thoughts?

Have a great time watching the 30 to 40 win Rocket team next year with Trevor averaging 10 points and 5 rebounds.

I’ll be watching the 70 win Laker team lead by the that poor leader Kobe Bryant. It sure will be irritating to watch him give those phony fist pumps to Gasol and Artest.
Steve Watkins Said,

July 7, 2009 @ 1:16 pm

Ariza is crazy to play hardball with the Lakers after just winning a championship. Talent is overrated. Americans struggle so bad in international competition because they go against teams that have played together for years. It’s not the talent that wins - it is the team. The Law of Requisite Variety says that it is mathematically impossible for a bunch of talented one-on-one players to beat a team that works together. There are too many combinations of moves that can’t be countered by the team that only knows one-on-one nonsense. The Lakers are a young team and were only going to get better with time. If Ariza was smart, he would realize that. Now the Lakers have to do some relearning. It will not be that bad for them though because all of the other top teams seem to be foolishly shuffling their rosters also.
Holla Bolla Said,

July 7, 2009 @ 4:35 pm

Ron & Rocketfan,

Kob has ZERO to prove to you two wannabe experts..ZERO. You two are garbage haters that still havent gotten over the fact the Mamba won the title this year. It happened, MAMBA said knock you out.

LAKERS WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP. YES…GOOGLE IT. BING IT. ASK JEEVES..whatever you need to begin the healing process.

Artest to LA is a great sign for two reasons. LA is not a dominant team..nobody is. Staying put would have been the easy thing to do. Kob is 30..got about 4 years left..Ron is 29. Ariza is 24..and will blossom but Kob has no time to wait for another ring (as if he really needs another..but Mamba wants it, no doubt). Ron is another real scorer, a great physical defender..and can give Kob a break on both ends….bigtime sign.

The scowling Mamba can do whatever he wants btw. He has played B-Ball for 3 straight years, with 2 finals, a gold medal and a freaking title. Of course he is serious..who gives a d@mn about his scowl. He is not Iverson or Ricky Davis…this dude works harder than anyone in the league, took his God-given talent and appreciated it. You two are a couple of haters who need to visit this site:

http://www.imhavingarealhardtimedealingwiththistitle.com

talk to someone on this site. get your feelings out in the open. help yourselves.

PS..check out game 3 vs the denver thuggets…4th qtr. Tell me you wouldnt scowl after that major 3 in Jr’s eye. Tell me…I said tell me…that’s what I thought.

Gobe!
eddie Said,

July 7, 2009 @ 6:10 pm

Holla Bolla

you are a true Laker fan for sure or are you? we rarely saw you on this site when the Lakers were getting spanked a few years ago.

I have always been a Cubs fan—now thats a true supporter. lol
RocketsFanCody Said,

July 7, 2009 @ 8:15 pm

I’m glad we have some Kobe supporters to have input on here. I am a realist and I am open enough to see truth. Kobe is amazing and did win a title. I don’t need wikipedia to state the obvious. What I’m doing here is sharing my opinion. Kobe tries to be hard and talk trash and no one takes him serious. Watch Odom or Shannon Brown when Kobe is in their ear. No one listens to him. He won because of his talent but it will be harder this year. The Spurs are going to be better than the Lakers next year if they stay healthy. Just go read Bill Simmons column on ESPN.com and it will tell you all you need to know about Kobe. He’s selfish and self-motivated. Sure he works hard, but so does Rip Hamilton, Lebron James, D Wade or any legit superstar. Kobe is great and he did win this year, but please hold off hanging next year’s banner until next year.
RobTaipei Said,

July 7, 2009 @ 10:12 pm

I think RocketsFanCody’s Kobe analysis was right on and very interesting both from a basketball and sociological perspective. If other posters would write accordingly with insight rather than just mindless invective, Eddie’s Blog would be more enjoyable. Ranting and raving however is also part of the fun, I guess.

For those who have not yet read it, the late great David Halberstam’s Breaks of the Game provides good background for a lot of what is happening in today’s NBA.

RobTaipei
Bryan Conley Said,

July 8, 2009 @ 2:08 am

I know how the Lakers should use Artest: off the bench, like Lamar.
Without Lamar, the Lakers still have four strong scorers, assuming Drew comes back to his Fall form. The Lakers need at least two scorers on the floor at all times. Start with the other three, start Walton, bring Ron in after 6 or 8 minutes, when Drew leaves. He then plays the rest of the half, or takes a three minute breather when Kobe and Pau come back in at the 6 minute mark.
I’m asuming that Lamar will not be signed. Kobe’s and Sasha’s rotation can be the same, and likewise Fish’s, Farmer’s and Brown’s. Powell needs to assume a major role, as he did when Drew was out.
Bryan
chad Said,

July 8, 2009 @ 2:46 am

please dont tell me even after this , you think orlando is more talented
Craig Bailey Said,

July 8, 2009 @ 3:33 am

Wat kills me about these Kobe haterz is for all the previous years he has been known as a selfish person & player. Now yrs have gone by, went yrs without a title, grown older and now has shown more leadership with dealing with his teammates. But according to the haterz all this is fake? Are u serious? With that logic nobody changers for the better, they jus act that way. Why can’t Kobe have figured it out? He jus won his 4th title. Why? Not jus b cuz of talent. It takes more than talent to win Championships. Give the man his due and to say he will only be top 10 all time with 4 rings and Lebron wit 0 will be top 5. That’s a ridiculous statement b cuz Championships are the icing on the cake when u talk about top players of all time. Kobe can retire rite now and easily be top 5
Holla Bolla Said,

July 8, 2009 @ 9:13 pm

Eddie,

Been defending Kob for a while, even when Smush & Kwame were supposed to be Bj Armstrong & Horace Grant. I was destroyed by Hater Nation last year after the Celts tore us a new one..so haters have had this coming for a while and it feels d@mn good to expose clowns like Ron and RocketFan..I love how RocketFan references Bill Simmons to defend his point..Bill Simmons? That guys despises Kob and is a die-hard Celtics fan. You are hanging by a very thin thread brah.

Ron..did you listen to D. Howard, D. Wade, L. James, Chauncey Billups talk about Kob after the Olympics..all of them talked about how great he was as a teammate. Did you see L. Bron’s defense this year…even he admitted Kob was a motivating factor there. Lamar, Pau, D. Fish, Phil, all dig him…Oh, Coach K is coming back to coach the Olympics…why would he want to coach such a selfish punk like Kobe? But keep slurping your B Simmons..that’s all you got Rocketfan.

You two are a pair of haters having tough times. Kob is selfish? No, Kob is a champion, and this title has destroyed a ton of haterade.

How does that a$$ taste?
Holla Bolla Said,

July 8, 2009 @ 9:34 pm

“Kobe tries to be hard and talk trash and no one takes him serious. Watch Odom or Shannon Brown when Kobe is in their ear. No one listens to him. He won because of his talent but it will be harder this year.”

WOW..Eddie, even you have to laugh at this with all your boys who read this blog with you…drop an “LOL” for us on this one, could you?

RocketFan..what games were you watching? Kob was coaching the team throughout the playoffs..You see want you want to see…its like you are in the middle of the Sahara thirsty for lemonade, but you must know d@mn well there is no lemonade stand out there..or do you?

Winning on talent alone? You seem to forget that LA didnt roll through the playoffs crushing people by 30 every night. The squad pulled out some major dubs that only could have happened if the chemistry was there. Game 3, 5 & 6 vs Thuggets were major team dubs.. Game 1,2, 4 & 5 vs Magic..team dubs. If the team didn’t “listen” to Kob, why would they have tried? They all knew this title was all about Kob..btw, Shannon Brown is coming back. Noway they would have won this year without chemistry and without the experience from last year.

Kob is one of the toughest players in the NBA..plays hurt, heels fast..he’s not Vince dude..yet you focus on how he acts or is scowl, his posture, or he is trying to be like Jordan..just watchu him play dude..he is an efn beast. He does not back down from anybody..when have you seen him do that? Or are you one of Bill Simmons drunk friends scouting Kob’s every move in the stands?

Bottom Line..You are totally clueless..and Ron agrees with you? Ron..you are admittedly a Kob hater. I see you post quite a bit. This title has rocked your world brah..lovin it.
Michael Bennett Said,

July 9, 2009 @ 8:12 am

Everyone always says that all of the Olympic team learned from Kobe, which I somewhat agree with.

But, I’ll charge that Kobe actually learned the most from that group of young teammates. Of course that’s not the story that’s run every fifteen seconds in basketball land.

If you know anything about the media, you know they are ubiquitous and use methods of repetition to enforce ideas - in this case, the idea that Kobe was some sort of mentor to the USA team.

In fact, LeBron was the known leader of that team, and Kobe benefitted the most from playing with those other amazing stars from a different generation. The proof of this argument is his ability, finally, to work within his team, play his part, and let the game come to him.

Also, proof is ring #4. This is in no way discrediting Kobe and his accomplishments - it’s only to expose certain bloggers and writers that it’s a two-way street. Kobe learned just as much from LeBron, DWade, DHoward and Melo as they did from him.
RocketsFanCody Said,

July 9, 2009 @ 9:17 am

Holla, you are a funny individual. You are the kid who gets on the court and looks like Phillip Seymour Hoffman on Along Came Polly. “Ball, ball….come on man….I was wide open.” You are obviously biased to just what LA does and don’t want to look at what’s happening around the league. I agree totally with Michael Bennett. Everyone knew that the Olympic team was Lebron’s, just like everyone knows the league belongs to Lebron. Oh, and yes, nothing you can say will knock me off of my stance that Kobe’s “leadership” is media-driven and not real. Did you watch Kobe Doin Work? The little I watched was all I needed to see. He’s trying to coach his team at half time when they played the Spurs and IRA NEWBLE, yes THE IRA NEWBLE, was looking away and not paying attention. Phil is the coach of the team, not Kobe like the media tries to paint him. I think it’s funny that everytime I have posted, I’ve said the Lakers won’t even be the best team in the West this year, and I get no response. They added character guys like Jefferson and now McDyess. They already have the big three. They have emerging quality players in George Hill, Ime Udoka, and Roger Mason. If the Spurs get fully healthy and stay that way, they will slow the game to a half-court pace and team-fundamental the Lakers to death. I feel extremely bad for the PG’s, or lackthereof, of the Lakers for having to guard Parker next year. I am a Rockets fan, through and through. I didn’t dislike the Lakers until this year and it has nothing to do with winning the title. I will be the first one to tell you that they deserved it. Kobe played great and he won the title. What I keep bringing up is the year to come. The post started with talking about how Artest will fit on the team. You can hang on to last season if you want. I am looking at what is coming, and I want the Lakers to prove me wrong. The Mavs have now added Marion, plus resigned Kidd, and are going to sign Gortat. They are only going to be better. As I’ve already stated, the Magic, Celtics, and Cavs are all better. Not to mention that the Pistons added quality, and the Bulls are still emerging. The Nuggets will still be tough to handle. Next year, you come to me and tell me how the Lakers made it through the league, and then I will back down and give you props. Until then, let’s be real. Kobe isn’t a leader, as much as you or the media tries to make him seem. I think Kobe trying to act tough is funny. Is Kobe amazing? Absolutely. One of the most talented players to ever wear an NBA jersey. When Shaq was on the team, Kobe couldn’t handle not having the attention. Shaq said repeatedly when he was a Laker, that Kobe was the best player in the world. The attention was naturally diverted to Shaq because of his size and personality. Imagine that. A personality. That’s something Kobe knows nothing about. If Kobe would have been able to handle not having all the attention, he and Shaq could have won more than three titles. Oh, and the reason they dig him….because he is the best player on the team. They know if they give him the ball and get out of the way, he will find a way. The difference between Kobe and Lebron is that Lebron passes to guys that get open and he trust his teammates. Kobe passes because he has to and gets mad when they don’t make shots. I don’t buy Kobe as a leader now and I never will.
wilzuvsteel Said,

July 9, 2009 @ 11:35 am

RocketsFanCody, you wrote a lot but had nothing meaningful to say except that you’re a hater. The Lakers are going to kill Houston next year period. Denver & Portland will be tough as they are young and athletic and have playoff experience now. The Spurs are old now. Manu was their ace and he’ll never be the same after all those ankle surgeries. Look at what happened to Grant Hill. The Mavs are just too soft defensively. And I’m glad the east is getting better. That way when the Lakers repeat you can blog again about how Kobe isn’t a leader and how Shaq has such a great personality. Shaq has left his mess all over the place. Nobody can put up with him as long as the Lakers have. Blame it all you want on Kobe but in the end he’ll have more rings than Shaq and Duncan.
Michael Bennett Said,

July 9, 2009 @ 11:54 am

Please don’t mix my words.

I think Kobe is the definite leader of the Lakers and he’s one of the greatest basketball players ever. This last year, he was amazing.

I just want people to paint the whole picture, instead of saying the cliche of “LeBron is a better defender because of Kobe…” and so forth.

Don’t try and minimize what Kobe did this year. He deserves all of our respect and admiration.

I still love LeBron more and think he’s better, but let’s not discount Kobe’s great season.
wilzuvsteel Said,

July 9, 2009 @ 11:57 am

Michael Bennett, What happened to this Olympic bound team when Kobe was not on the squad? That’s right…..Bronze in the 2006 FIBA World Championship losing to Greece 101-95 . Playing with Kobe transformed the whole teams approach to the game offensively and defensively. They all had that diva mentality and that talent alone would win before they played with Kobe. And out of all those who were on the team besides D-Wade, who had an NBA Championship ring? Your boy Lebron “0″ So what has he really done except put up stats? He lost both games to the Lakers in the regular season and so did the Celtics w/ KG. What is amazing is Bynum is still a work in progress. Man I feel for the Laker haters out there because we’ve got banners in our future.
Steve Watkins Said,

July 9, 2009 @ 12:04 pm

These big shakeups like Shaq joining up with Lebron are overrated. Lebron relies excessively on driving the ball because of his lack of jump shooting ability. Putting Shaq in the middle is not going to help Lebron’s game. Lebron will never be a good shooter until he loses weight so he can start jumping on balance. Unfortunately, that is not happening as he gets older. Also, I don’t see him lasting long in the NBA because he started early and his knees are taking a constant beating, considering his size and speed. Watch out for the Nuggets. They are the only top team with enough common sense to realize they will improve by keeping there guys together. They have already climbed a long way in half a season since getting rid of glory hound AI. If they don’t wear Billups out during the regular season, they will be better than they were this year come playoff time.
RocketsFanCody Said,

July 9, 2009 @ 12:55 pm

Maybe I should step back and clear up something. Never once did I, or would I for that matter, diminish what Kobe did. Kobe is amazing and I would buy his jersey. Kobe is the ONLY player in the league who can find a way to consistently hit the shots he hits with Shane Battier’s hand literally inside his nasal passage. Kobe is a gift to the game and he will go down as one of the best of all time. I just feel that as we watch Lebron, we are watching a once in a lifetime talent. Lebron’s shooting stroke has improved and will continue to do so. He continues to improve on the defensive end and that is backed up by the fact that he was second this year in Defensive Player of the Year voting. The reason I like Lebron so much more than Kobe, is because not only does he show a will to win and frustration when he doesn’t he also shows a true joy of playing with a team. Lebron passes up shots he needs to take just because he wants his teammates involved. Has Kobe grown as a player and a person? Absolutely. Does that mean I think he is a great leader and people follow what he says? No I do not think so. I think they defer to his “leadership” because he is the best on the floor. Kobe has shown disgust on his face when teammates have missed shots, and his lack of interest in the Finals last year was sad. It was hard to watch because he would rush to shoot the ball and then job back down the floor. He showed no desire to hustle for a rebound off a missed basket or a fire to not lose. I would never downplay his ability and I have watched his 81 point night against the Raptors probably 10 times. The night that it happened, I was calling people asking if they had heard about it, and was just in awe of him being able to do that. My point for the argument to begin with is that we can’t annoint the Lakers champs next year just because they added Ron Artest. Yes they brought back Shannon Brown, but they have yet to resign Lamar Odom. Fisher, as seen in this year’s playoffs, got a lot older real fast. Farmer is inconsistent. Vujacic plays no defense. He only comes in to fire up shots as soon as he touches the ball, and I would NEVER have that guy on my team. Luke Walton I really like, as he is a really smart basketball player. Gasol improved this year on defense, but has to be involved to be effective. Bynum still needs to fully heal up because he has yet to show what he started to show before he got hurt. Josh Powell is a solid young big man. The jury for me is still out. I have watched basketball for a long time and I know what I’ve seen. I’ve seen him doing the fist pumps and I’ve seen him high-five his teammates. He did that with Shaq and Co. and we see how that ended up. Just because you slap a hand, doesn’t mean there’s anything real there. The Celtics have real chemistry. The Magic and Cavs show real chemistry. Even my team, the Rockets, showed real togetherness this year. I don’t know if I really see that with the Lakers. Maybe I’m wrong and maybe they are best friends and have picnics together. I want them to show me this year and I will come back and say I was wrong. Until then, I will stick to how I feel.
frank B Said,

July 9, 2009 @ 1:31 pm

Holla Bolla:

Great Job, hilarious posts.

Michael Bennett:

Wow. I’m impressed.

RocketsFanCody:

Stop Hatin’. Just because you like Lebron better than Kobe doesn’t mean Kobe sucks. Take a deep breath and consider being more concise and precise with your words.

Sometimes the best leadership in a simple game like basketball is putting that ball into the hoop when your team needs it. Kobe Bryant can do that as well as anyone who has ever played the game.

When Mike K told Kobe to let the Mamba out in the final minutes of the final game of the Olympics, he recognized this.

When asked how to “handle” a player like Bryant, he said you don’t “handle” anyone; (Wilt Chamberlain once said no one has to handle me, I am not an animal) and that his most important role with Kobe was to provide encouragement.

Positive thoughts lead to positive action and results. Don’t let your positive feelings towards Lebron lead you towards negative feelings about Kobe. When those two guys played together our team was unbeatable.

Enjoy the greatest game on earth played by the greatest athletes on earth. Peace.
wilzuvsteel Said,

July 9, 2009 @ 1:36 pm

RocketsFanCody, when you have Brian Shaw giving insight to how Kobe has stepped up as a leader on the team as well as coach Jackson then why is it you still rely on your own feelings. You try to be unbiased but it still affects your decisions on what is reality and what you perceive as reality as your willingness to stick to how you feel. And like I said earlier to Michael Bennett, the Lakers swept the Cavs and Celts w/KG during the regular season breaking the Cavs unbeaten streak at home and ending the Celts 19 game winning streak. But of course there was still not enough team chemistry. We deserve some credit but not all the credit because it was only the regular season. You can keep coming up with excuses but the bottom line is the Lakers are the Champs and Kobe is the MVP of the Finals. If you can’t believe that then I’d have to say you are delusional or just have not grown to recognize Kobe is a better all around player and teammate. I’m sure in all the years of basketball spectatorship that you qualify yourself to have that you can attest to Kobe’s ascent. But I guess he needs to also be best friends with everybody and have picnics together. It’s not enough that they travel together, practice together and eventually celebrate a championship together but they also need to be neighbors and walk their dogs together. Funny how I don’t see this relationship with Michael Jordan & Pippen, Kareem Abdul Jabbar & Magic, Shaq & ????, Duncan & Parker/Ginobli, etc. But for Kobe the jury is still out. His motives are not genuine. He shows too much frustration. Well I’m sure that with all of criticism that he has taken on from the media and the like, you’d feel some frustration when you are blamed for everything and win because of your title and not the content of your character. So it just goes to show how far you need to grow in order to recognize what is happening before your very eyes. Because next year Houston is going to be lucky to make the playoffs. Let’s see how far Brooks and Scola can carry the team on their backs like Kobe did when the Lakers were rebuilding. McGrady is done, Yao is a young but crippled version of Ilgauskas and the coach will have no go to player or all star to rely on . But, at least your team, as you’ve aptly put it, has “real togetherness”. But no “real” chance to win a championship right?
Craig Bailey Said,

July 9, 2009 @ 1:47 pm

At this point how can anybody say Kobe isn’t a great leader or Lebron is more of a leader than Kobe. Realistically all we can go on is what the end result is. The Lakers won the Championship, the Cavs lost in the Conference Finals. On both sides their teammates & coaches rave about their leadership but we don’t know what goes on when the cameras aren’t there. I feel haterz are holding on the Kobe’s past downfalls. But I do agree with Michael Bennett Kobe benefited from playing with those guys jus like they benefited from playing with him. But I do not agree that it was Lebron’s team, from a media stand point it was. But from the team itself and locker room, it wasn’t. D Wade was the best player in the Olympics and in the Gold medal game they turned to Kobe in crunchtime, not Lebron. Don’t get me wrong, Lebron is amazing, I jus feel ppl need to wait til he wins to crown him as the best. I still think he has a LONG way to go to reach Kobe’s level. His fundamentals are average, he relys on his superior physical athletic ability but that won’t always be theere. With his size, speed & jumping ability it defenitely takes a toll on his knees, so he must change the way he plays eventually.

Now about next season, its gonna be interesting, the East has all but caught the West (on paper). If the Lakers re-sign Lamar then they will be the favorites, I feel the Celtics look scary on paper but they may have interferred wit their chemistry, Cleveland got an old Shaq, they will improve but unless they become more than a jump shooting team they won’t get a championship and Orlando looks the scaariest in my opinion, adding Vince who can still be a dominant perimeter player, especially while playing with a dominant big man. San Antonio & Denver r the Lakers biggest competition but if they get Odom back & Bynum stays healthy, nobody can stop them in the West. The addition of Artest adds time & rest for Kobe which will make him even more deadly come playoff time. All in all its gonna be a great season
Steve Watkins Said,

July 10, 2009 @ 8:35 pm

I disagree that the Artest deal is a big win for the Lakers. One of the biggest weaknesses of mankind in general is that we put too much stock in our own theories without considering empirical evidence. Considering the facts, this whole thing becomes ridiculously simple. The Lakers just won a chamionship with Ariza as an integral part of the team. The Lakers will not be better off without Ariza. I don’t care what Ariza’s stats are, the team won with Ariza. Are we to jump to conclusions and say that since Artest had better stats, the Lakers will be better off with Artest? Since Artest is a big name, the lakers will be better off with Artest? What about winning a chamionship? Doesn’t that count for anything?
Michael Bennett Said,

July 11, 2009 @ 8:02 am

So what you’re saying, Steve Watkins, is that a championship team can NEVER get better by adding players?

They have to keep the EXACT same team to yield the same results? They can’t possibly improve?

Nice one.

To all of my critics, you can see now why I sometimes think people are bozos on here. I mean, come on! This guy…
Steve Watkins Said,

July 11, 2009 @ 9:41 am

Michael Bennett - don’t put words in my mouth asshole. You say I am a bozo? - who the hell do you think you are? You are so tough hiding behind your computer.
Michael Bennett Said,

July 11, 2009 @ 10:13 am

Touchy touchy.

It has nothing to do with tough - it has everything to do with common sense… of which you obviously don’t have any judging by what you wrote (and how you now replied).

Artest will make the Lakers a better team. I don’t “empirical evidence” to come to that conclusion. All you have to do is watch the game.
Steve Watkins Said,

July 11, 2009 @ 2:50 pm

Michael, actually you just made my point for me. My point is that this that arrogant people put too much stock in their own brilliance without considering all of the facts. For example, Greek scientists had evidence over 2000 years ago that the earth revolved around the sun, not vice versa. For 1800 years, mankind refused to accept these facts because religious leaders, out of pure arrogance, wanted mankind to be at the center of the universe. Your arrogant, unprovoked manner of speaking to me reveals this same weakness - you believe you are at the center of the universe also. The fact is that Ariza was an integral part of a team that one the chamionship. He was probably the third most valuable member of that team throughout the playoffs. Now you say it is common sense to get rid of him in favor of another player who will probably be no better than the third best player on that team. You assume that he will just fit right in and the Lakers as a team will be better. The problem is that there are many aspects of the game of basketball regarding chemistry, confidence, and knowledge that don’t show up on the stat sheet. You can’t just slap some all-stars together and expect them to win, which is why the Americans have struggled so badly in international competition over the past 12 years or so, despite having superior talent. So getting rid of Ariza in favor of Artest is a risky move. The fact is that the chemistry, confidence, and knowledge of the Lakers would continue to improve if they had kept Ariza so there is no risk in keeping him. The arrogance of the people who made this decision caused them to overlook these intangibles. If the Lakers got Artest without giving up a big part of their team then that would be a great move. But you insist in the name of common sense that they will be better next year without an integral member of their team and I know you believe that but you really don’t know that, do you?
Fred Said,

July 11, 2009 @ 6:33 pm

My God, Eddie ..what have u done,i read all the post under ur article and ..mehn…conspiracy it is..i am sure that for the least part you envisioned all these,naming calling,debate,argue,dreadful insights and most of all how the greeks got incorporated into a basketball convo…Resolved,given that u pushed this very article 3-4days on twitter b4 posting..mehn,kudos..
Its just basketball,lets see what goes down starting on halloween night..Period.but for now,get in ur various backyards,play some pick-up b-ball ..obese-america.
Holla Bolla Said,

July 12, 2009 @ 11:35 am

Steve,

It just might be time for you to overdose on some chill pills. Your chemistry points are valid, Artest is a risk. Here is what you are not realizing: With Ariza, LA is not a dominant team. Celts, Cavs, Thuggs, Magic, Spurs all are better than they were last season…nobody knows for sure, but it is a safe bet. Nobody knows if the Artest as signing guarantees anything..so your point is actually worthless, a wasted post.

Ron has been playing on teams recently with below average offensive punch. Sac-Town? Nuff said. The Rox lose T-Mac and then Yao..so what is Ron supposed to do? Pass it to Battie & Scola all the time? When the Rox got Artest last year, most NBA analysts had them as LA’s top contender…why? Then he was rumored to go to the Cavs this year and the same people were talking about how great a sign that would be. Hmm..Bron, Shaq, Mo & Ron (but, wouldnt that pose a similar chemistry issue?)…So now LA gets Ron and its a quesitonable move? Haters are so transparent and you obviously have some bitter h-ade going on inside.

Are you implying that Trevor Ariza is a top 20 player in the league? (Ron is)..or ever will be? Based on your reasoning, Ron is a MUCH safer bet then Trevor. All we know about Trevor is that for one season, he hits threes and plays solid defense..and he is 24,and wants to be paid the SAME as Ron (btw, at 6 mill a year, Ron is a bargain). Kob is 30..we got 4-5 years to win more titles, and waiting on Trevor’s potential development was a bigger risk then siging Ron…makes sense to me. Not only that, LA is keeping up with the jones’..as mentioned at the top, there are several contenders now and LA is right there with them.

Here’s more..Kob gets a break on BOTH ends..keep him from fatiguing..Trev does not provide that. Ron can D up on just about anybody except for D. Howard. Trevor can’t do that. Ron, 29, wants to win a title..never has won one. You think he might accept his role? His hunger will be infectious..Trev wont do that..he’’s got his ring and is getting paid…good for him. I love Trev, an emotional loss for sure.. but being a GM means making moves, choosing to help the team win again vs sentimental bs. Mitch sees the same window that we do and it all revolves around the Black Mamba (2009 Champion & Finals MVP..got some a$$ to taste Stevo?). Tim Legler made this great point: Ron is not coming on board to be saviour..the squad just won the title with out him. Phil’s got 10 rings..think Ron might accept his role? Phil & Kob signed off on this move for sure. Repeating will be a mighty task..and staying pat is too easy. Even the Bulls tossed Horace Grant for Dennis the menace..gotta do what you gotta do.

BTW–Rocketfan, you have gotten destroyed on this blog. The main reason for this destruction is because you really do make zero sense. Oh..and why does Mamba & Co have to win it again this season? And if they do, THEN you will eat your words. Who are you? Or, better yet, Who do you think you are? Mamba won the ring he needed to already bro..now it is bonus time. That Hater-ade must taste like absolute sh@t…enjoy it brah. At least you still got B. Simmons..he will make you feel better.

Bennett, people are seeing you evolve. You have really come around recently, and I would like to take some credit for your growth, but like your boy Bron, humility is not your strong suit. Still, good to see you cleanse your hate.
Steve Watkins Said,

July 12, 2009 @ 1:45 pm

Holla Bolla,

Thanks for your response. I try not to do a lot of theorizing because more often than not it leads me to the wrong conclusion. There was only one Einstein and I am certainly not him. Also, all of these questions about how Artest might fit in compared to Ariza leads to brain burn so I am foillowing your advice and chilling out on analyzing all of that.

I think simple. All that that counts to Mitch is how valuable Ariza is to the Lakers compared to how valuable Artest might be to the Lakers. It doesn’t matter if Ariza is considered a top 20 player in the league - that is completely irrelevant. Also, Mitch should consider what the Lakers have to do to win a chamionship. The Lakers were clearly the best team in the league this year. To win a chamionsip next year, they don’t have to be a lot better - but they would like to be a little better. If they keep Ariza, they will be a little better because they will be more experienced. If they dump Ariza for Artest, who knows?

I understand all of the attraction with Artest because of overhyped stats but even if Artest does well, he will not be significantly more valuable to the Lakers than Ariza, considering that Gasol and Kobe will shoulder more of the load. He will be no better than the third most valuable member of that team.

What do you think Red Aurbach would have done if he had the opportunity to trade Russel for Chamberlain after the Celtics won their first championship? Do you think Wilt would have gone out and won him 10 more? It stands to reason based on Wilt’s superior stats. But of course, I don’t know for sure.
Holla Bolla Said,

July 12, 2009 @ 2:56 pm

Steve,

If Lamar gets hurt (assuming he resigns)..Ron can step in and shoulder the load. If Pau/Kobe get in foul trouble, Ron can step in and shoulder the load. Trevor cannot. Laker Nation loved Sasha after 2008 and he was a nightmare this year..he made some big threes and we overrated him. Luke W too a couple years before that (so overpaid). Trevor had one good year, that was made better by his playoff run…to say he will be better next year “just because” is not true. He is a role player, not a “clear out, so I can take this guy” player. Ron will slide into his spot and like he did with the Rockets, he is capable of carrying a short-handed squad. Ron also adds one more intangible: intimidator. Not to mention a more physical rebounder and defender. Assuming Trevor does what he did this year is also dangerous. Ron adds much more affordable insurance, and coverage for that matter.

Also..LA was not clearly the best team. That’s my point. The top 8 squads in the league all have a shot to win it. Again, check out game 3 vs Thuggs in the WC finals. If Mamba does not bury that 3 in Q4, we are home for the summer, and the Thuggs move on. Then you probably would say Ron was a nice addition. Get it out of your head that LA was clearly the best…they were the best in the end, but they worked d@mn hard to get it, thanks to Mamba’s leadership. Mitch realized they had to get better, and Ron is worth the flyer.

Finally..Bill for Wilt? Not even close to same thing. Bill was their best player. It’s like saying Kobe for Bron..just cause Bron is considered the best in the league. No chance you trade your icon for another. Trev is and was a role player…and you just compared him freaking Bill Russell. I’m sure Trev would appreciate it.
Steve Watkins Said,

July 12, 2009 @ 3:31 pm

Holla Bolla,

I think the Lakers controlled those series. Also, their core players have not been together for long and have shown continuous improvement in the past two years.

You missed the point of my analogy. Russell was the best player on his team and Wilt would step into that role if Aurbach traded for him, but Aurbach would never do it because he knows that stats are overhyped. Ariza is the third or fourth best player on the Lakers and Artest is now stepping into that role. In terms of net value to the team, the comparison is the same.

I think if Mitch really wants to add value, he would look into a replacemnt for Fisher because he is getting old.
Holla Bolla Said,

July 12, 2009 @ 3:48 pm

Ron is a role player now..he knows that. He can expand that role if called upon..that’s the difference. He can guard Melo…Trev had major issues with that. We dont need Ron to drop 20 & 7 every night..but he can if needed, like maybe in a crucial game 3 in the WC Finals. Ron is a more proven commodity, much less of a risk. He is 29, but he knows his years are maybe 3-4 left. He wants a ring. Are you dogging the Rasheed to Boston deal too? Pretty similar stuff..Big Baby has a nice run this year..but Rasheed gives you more proven experience. Those guys have about 2 years of title contention left. Same thing man.

I got your Wilt/Bill Trev/Ron point just fine. My point is that it makes a ton more sense to trade role players for role players. The nucleus in LA did not include Trevor, nor should it. He was a movable part. Kinda like a New England Patriot running back or receiver or CB. Brady for Manning though? Gimme a break. Maybe in fantasy, but you do trade your Icon for another unless it is Vince or T-Mac or AI.

Plugging in Ron gives LA a role player with some icing on the cake that Trev could not give you…for the same price. That has to make sense to you, unless you think Ron is a much lesser player..consider yourself in the minority.

PG..Shannon Brown. I’ll roll with it. That guy showed a ton this year. Would have loved Pargo though. Fish is part of a 3-headed PG, with Farmar in there too. But let’s be honest, they have enough now. Let Brown be their weak link..we shall see if he is.

BTW–D. jones left the Thuggs. Good call.
big john Said,

July 13, 2009 @ 1:16 am

Boston has to thank Bynum and Ariza for being injured in the 2008 season. With them, Boston will never have a chance to win a ring. Enough of those old thinking that Boston is a team to beat although they are still the beast in the East. because now that LA’s healthy, winning a championship will definitely just be a walk in the park.

So to the laker, eat well, practice and take your vitamins. Avoid being injured and show the league no mercy.

Go lakers!
Steve Watkins Said,

July 13, 2009 @ 10:45 am

Holla Bolla,

You seem to have it all figured out, good luck.

I am surprised that you still refer to Ariza by his first name, considering he is going to Houston.
frank B Said,

July 13, 2009 @ 12:40 pm

Steve Watkins,

I think the point that you are trying to make is that no one can predict team chemistry and that it is possible that Artest might not fit into the team as well as Trevor did.

This is a valid proposition, but the rest of your logic is very shaky.

Ron Artest, love him or hate him, is a serious baller. Of course none of us know for sure, but my feeling is that the acquisition of Artest is almost as big for the Lakers as the Gasol for Kwame Brown deal (oh how great that still sounds!).

Trevor has holes in his game that will soon become apparent to you when your watching him this year in Houston. He is very fast, but physically not very strong and can be overwhelmed but the stronger players. Even though he is known for his defense, any basketball fan could see that Kobe drew the other team’s top scorer, not Ariza.

Trevor improved his three point shooting this year but success in that area can be fleeting; look at Sasha Vujucic and Luke Walton who threw up some great numbers….for one year. Trevor cannot create his own shot, has below average ball handling skills, doesn’t have any midrange game, and will be lucky to ever average more than 12 or 13 points a game in 30 or so minutes. Hopefully, I’m wrong, because we hate to see Trevor go and we wish him the best, but he really has gotten a little too big for his britches considering he averaged about 10 points as a fulltime starter.

Stats may not tell the whole story, but if you look at Artest’s numbers and skill set, there is really no comparison. Artest can put up 17 or 18 points, pull down 5 or 6 boards, dish out 3 or 4 assists, and lock his man up on the d side of the ball. The year Artest ran into the stands he was averaging 24 a game! Trevor will never get close to this level of play.

Artest and Kobe are friends. Lamar and Artest are friends. Kobe just recently brushed off any assertions that Artest is not a good teammate which is another good sign for Laker’s fans.

Besides chemistry is overrated. Look at Shaq and Kobe.
Steve Watkins Said,

July 13, 2009 @ 4:10 pm

Frank B,

You are probably right - Ariza is weak and will never be able to put up big numbers. He can’t handle the ball, can’t shoot from mid-range and will never be an all-star.

But one thing I do know - because I saw this with my own eyes - Ariza made a significant contribution to the Lakers championship team this year. I believe he is only 24, and he will get better. I do not understand how the Lakers can turn around and throw him out the door and Laker fans are all rah, rah over it. In addition to not being smart, it is not a classy. I doubt that the team chemistry of the Lakers will improve, but we will see.
Steve Watkins Said,

July 13, 2009 @ 7:18 pm

Frank B,

Your comment “Chemistry is overrated. Look at Shaq and Kobe” leads me to believe you do not understand a word of what I say. By “chemistry”, I refer to the collective knowledge and awareness among teammates regarding what each will do in any situation. I am not talking about a love affair.

If there is one thing I have learned in the 40+ years I have studied this game, it is that team chemistry is the most underrated aspect of the game.
Holla Bolla Said,

July 13, 2009 @ 8:07 pm

Steve,

Read what you just wrote:

“You are probably right - Ariza is weak and will never be able to put up big numbers. He can’t handle the ball, can’t shoot from mid-range and will never be an all-star. ”

How could you write this and then continue to defend your argument? You just made ours for us. Pretty clear cut.

Get one thing straight..LA fans wanted Trev back cause we all loved him, but none of us thought we had any chance of getting Ron. Seeing Trev go hurts..no doubt. He hit some major 3s, made some huge steals and played is heart out on D. When he comes back to LA he will get a standing O foh shoh. I call him Trev cause we just won a freaking championship brah! It feels d@mn good too.

But we did get Ron…helps soften the blow quite a bit. We see this guy’s hunger for a ring, we see this guy’s intensity, and we see it being contageous. You see him jacking up 3s, holding the ball, then running into the stands to kill somebody…dude, this is NOT SacTown (B. Miller & co), his is not Houston (no t-wac, and yao)…these are your 2009 Black Mambions, primed and ready to defend their crown.

This could help you: Compare him to a Randy Moss going to the Pats..those shananigans go away when you come into a defending champs locker room. Too much pedigree, too much respect. This guy wants to fit in. He wants to win, and that’s why he took 6 mill vs 8 or 9 somewhere else. Trev wanted to get paid, Ron wants to win…24 vs 29 already showing up. Can’t argue with either dude..+ Trev will probably be back in LA in 2014 for same reason Ron is right now.

LA wants to repeat and this was one hell of a step in the right direction.
Holla Bolla Said,

July 13, 2009 @ 8:31 pm

BTW Steve,

I respect the fact that you have studied the game for 40 years.

So, you will probably appreciate this breakdown from Bill Bridges at Forum Blue & Gold. This analysis will likely put your keyboard to sleep.

http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2009/07/09/breaking-down-37/
Steve Watkins Said,

July 13, 2009 @ 8:49 pm

Holla Bolla,

The web site is truly amazing analysis.

It is good to know you Laker fans care so deeply about your beloved Trev.
Holla Bolla Said,

July 13, 2009 @ 9:00 pm

If you were part of Laker Nation, you would understand. This title was a major coup…major.

Come on board, there is room.
Steve Watkins Said,

July 14, 2009 @ 9:00 am

Holla Bolla,

I tend to go for the underdog, but I admire Phil Jackson - what a great coach. Also, I admire Kobe Bryant’s work ethic and leadership. I know he has been playing with a bad shooting hand the past two years and he hasn’t even mentioned it. His toughness is unparalleled.

I look up the definition for “team chemistry” but I couldn’t find it so I made up my own:

“The collective knowledge and awareness among teammates regarding complementary actions each player will take in an effort to achieve a common objective”

What do you think?
Steve Watkins Said,

July 14, 2009 @ 11:43 am

Holla Bolla,

I think my definition is inadequate because it doesn’t say anything about achieving success under a variety of adverse conditions. A team may have a lot of collective knowledge but it has to be useful knowledge that can be applied under any conditions – against any team or any opposing defense for example. A team that can combine the moves of all its players is better able to counter any opposing defense because the number of potential moves multiply to the point where the opposing defense doesn’t have an answer for all of them. Any defense can counter a one-on-one based offense more easily because the number of potential moves add together rather than multiply together. So any definition of team chemistry should address the variety of moves each team can counter with. I like this definition better:

“The collective knowledge and awareness among teammates regarding complementary actions each player will take towards achieving a common objective when facing a variety of adverse conditions.”

If your guy at the web site can find a way to measure team chemistry, that would really be something. As of now, the only measure I can come up with is the “W” column.
frank B Said,

July 14, 2009 @ 11:53 am

What you are pointing to as chemistry has more to do with coaching.

Phil Jackson teaches a system. If the players follow the system their collective efforts are maximized. That is why Kobe and Shaq literally hated each other but could still win 3 championships. Even though Shaq never liked to admit it, Kobe passed Shaq the ball more than anybody.

If one is dating a girl, chemistry is the most important thing.

If one is playing basketball to win, the most important thing is to execute the tactics that produce winning basketball. One can be a total jerk and still pass the ball.

Obviously, Phil Jackson teaches a system that works. If Ron Artest buys into the system, his skill set is so superior to Trevor Ariza’s that most Lakers fans feel that we have tremendously upgraded the team. We like Trevor, I have personally defended Trevor on this website when he knocked Rodriguez from Portland over, but Ron Artest almost led a depleted Rockets squad to a series victory over the Lakers this year.

Phil has shown that he can coach strong willed stubborn players…Kobe Bryant and Dennis Rodman being the two premier examples.
Steve Watkins Said,

July 14, 2009 @ 12:23 pm

Frank B,

According to that argumant, If Phil Jackson coached the Clippers, the Clippers would have the same chemistry as the Lakers. Phil is a great coach but I don’t think he can communicate his message so fast. Players develop habits that don’t change overnight. The Clippers also have totally different players with toatally different skill sets. Chemistry involves the capability of those skills to complement each other.
frank B Said,

July 14, 2009 @ 2:33 pm

You don’t think that the Clippers would improve with Phil Jackson as coach? Baron Davis, Marcus Camby, Chris Kaman, Eric Gordon, Al Thornton, Blake Griffin, etc., is actually a fairly strong collection of players.

Your logic is hard to follow. Phil himself says that it takes time to indoctrinate players into his system. Some don’t ever fit in, for example Gary Payton.

The whole point of coaching is to create a team out of a group of individuals….what you are choosing to understand as chemistry could also be better described as teamwork. Good teamwork can be facilitated by good coaching. Mike Dunleavy is the absolute worst at getting men to work together for a common cause. Phil Jackson is the master. Mike K is a master of this as well. John Wooden was the best.

What do the Clippers have to do with Ron Artest anyway?
Steve Watkins Said,

July 14, 2009 @ 3:00 pm

Frank B,

You said that chemistry is the same as good coaching and chemistry is maximized when the players do what the coach says. Unfortunately the players are not puppets on strings that are controlled completely by the coach. On the court, players do a lot of decision making. A coach can only guide them into making the right decisions. Good chemistry is more than doing what the coach says because players skills, instincts, and habits also need to complement each other. For example, a player who likes to catch and shoot complements a player who tends to command the ball. Two players who command the ball (possibly Kobe and Artest) may not complement each other well. The coach can tell one of them to not command the ball so much but it will take time to break him from the habit. Wouldn’t you rather have a guy who is already trained?

Personally, I believe the Clippers chemistry would improve under Phil Jackson but it would be like pulling teeth, primarily because the Clippers have a selfish point guard.
Michael Bennett Said,

July 14, 2009 @ 3:24 pm

Here’s what Steve Watkins wants to hear: “You’re right, Steve. With your 40+ years of basketball knowledge, you have a superior grasp of the game. We know nothing. You know everything.”

My concern is that it’s taken 40+ years and you still don’t understand the game. frank B - You’re absolutely right. Holla Bolla was right.

This argument is an argument about arguing, not about Artest/Lakers anymore.

Way to go, Steve Watkins. You’ve officially botched the board. Let’s get back to the issue at hand - Is Artest good for the Lakers? The answer is yes. And, he’s better for the Lakers than Ariza. Done and done.

Enough with the Watkinisms.
Steve Watkins Said,

July 14, 2009 @ 3:35 pm

Michael Bennett,

Just because I don’t agree with you, you don’t have to get all nasty. I haven’t said anything condescending to you. You started right off the bat with me calling me a bozo - completely unprovoked. I have a right to my opinion. I am just trying to think this through. I actually enjoy hearing opposing arguments. Unfortunately, Michael you don’t have one.
Steve Watkins Said,

July 14, 2009 @ 5:09 pm

Michael Bennett,

You said “Here’s what Steve Watkins wants to hear: “You’re right, Steve. With your 40+ years of basketball knowledge, you have a superior grasp of the game. We know nothing. You know everything.”

Actually if you read my posts, you will realize my main point is that I DO NOT know everything. I don’t know how Artest will fit in the triangle offense, I don’t know if he will hurt the Laker transition game, I don’t know if he will change to a catch and shoot type of player, etc. The difference between you and me Michael is that I am smart enough to know my limitations - because you don’t know any of that either.
Holla Bolla Said,

July 14, 2009 @ 8:15 pm

WTF?

Things are getting Ar-testy on this blog.

Steve, Frank B kindah hit it out of the park. The Artest signing would liklely not have happened if Phil did not agree to comeback. Phil’s pedigree is a big deal in this equation, and Ron will walk in to listen and not to demand. He has to, cause the Lake-Show won a title without him..that is a big deal. He took less money than market-value for this very reason. In fact, in our world of unknowns, that does point to his desire to fit in to a proven championship formula. It’s almost like you are comparing him to AI. Not to mention, players who play defense every night normally fit in just about anywhere.

Here is the other thing..Ron is out there, he is nuts. If you see him interviewed for longer then two minutes, he will make you scratch your head somehwere down the line. But he has never had a reputation as a bad teammate. Even Yao loved him, after admitting he was not excited about him coming to Rox.

BTW He wasnt jacking up shots when TMac and Yao were on the court healthy..TMAC was, but not Ron. He helped lead them past a really good Blazer team in Rd 1 and had to jack it up vs LA, specially after Yao went down.

Now, things could change if Ron does get a title this year..he might retire and promote his R & B group. But, if Ron gets a title this year, that means Mamba does too. That means B2b..YEYAH! I’m ok widat.
Steve Watkins Said,

July 15, 2009 @ 9:40 am

If the Lakers are unable to sign Odom, the Artest deal is definately a great move. Will they win the championship? I know Artest wants to win one bad but so does everyone - except Odom and Ariza it seems. Maybe I am naive but if I had ten times as much money as I would ever need and a limited window of opportunity to win an NBA chamionship, I would pick the NBA championship over the money. What can that extra money buy me that is better than that and that I can’t already buy? Especially considering an NBA championship will bring in more money in the long run (as pointed out above by a former player) and especially in LA.
Steve Watkins Said,

July 16, 2009 @ 9:10 am

I have a better definition for team chemistry that is a lot less wordy:

“The awareness among teammates of complementary actions each player will take in a variety of circumstances to achieve a common goal”.

My daughter said it was too specific but I disagree - I think it should be specific rather than vague. I can’t even get my own family to agree with me on anything!
RocketsFanCody Said,

July 16, 2009 @ 2:19 pm

So I took a few days a way to give some time for more input, and time to add to it all. This blog started with Eddie Johnson writing that Artest will be a star in LA. The blog has sense gone through hills and valleys of opinions, facts, arguments, name-calling, and a bunch of other humorous stuff.

So, thinking on the point I started with. I find it harder to see Artest just automatically turning into a legitimate role-player overnight, regardless of the system. Phil Jackson is one of, if not, the best coaches in basketball history. He knows what he wants out of his players, and he knows how to run a system to make them do that. Artest is a risk, but as I already said, it could be good or bad. IF he comes in with his head right and the right motivation, the Lakers are going to be really good and hard to stop repeating as champs. IF, however, he comes in and finds it hard to accept a back seat, it could get ugly fast. It’s been noted on here, that habits and personality come out on the court sometimes. Ron is used to being a major offensive point of a team, and with the Lakers, there isn’t a guarantee he will be that. Kobe is always going to be the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd option, and rightfully so. The team knows that the ball then goes to Gasol, and after that is a mystery. Odom looks like he won’t resign, so they lose another piece that knows the system and has bought into it. Artest played for a contract last year, so he had to be on his best behavior last year. Maybe Kobe has changed, and he is a legit leader. Maybe I find it harder than others to see that. I just want to see how Artest is feeling a month into the season.

Also, I would be a fool if I ever thought Ariza was an absolute upgrade. The Rockets HAVE to make more moves. Yao is likely gone all of next season, and at best McGrady won’t play until February. They could try to move his contract now and get a big piece and try to win. Or they could hold onto him and play out this year, and wait until the big summer begins. It is looking more and more like they will keep him and deal with the hand dealt this year, and end up a lottery team. One thing I can tell you, is that they will play hard every night and they will win games on grit and determination. Taylor and Budinger were nice additions in the draft and only time will tell how they develop as NBA players. Battier is the leader of the team and will keep them focused. Scola is solid every night and will be productive. Brooks is the future of the team and I love seeing him develop. Ariza adds a talented, young player, but he will take time.

In the Lakers system last year, Ariza knew his role and maximized the time given to him. He will have it tough this year because he’s not a center piece. A guy like D Wade, however, can be. Houston is an attractive city, and with Yao healthy after next year, they would be a great team to attract a guy like Wade.

This blog, however, is not about Houston. It is about how Artest will fit on this team. My whole point of argument was to calm down the fans who feel that adding him automatically brings a championship to LA. The Spurs, in my mind, are the best team in the West if they stay healthy. The Nuggets, Mavs, Blazers, Hornets, are all a year better and will be competitive. Could Artest bring a ring? Absolutely. How sure is anyone how he will really fit? Not at all.

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Artest will star in L.A.

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