Philly moves to the front
The Los Angeles Clippers, Golden State Warriors and the Philadelphia 76ers all made moves the last week involving free agency. The winner in a landslide if Elton Brand stays healthy will be the 76ers.
The Clippers went from possibly becoming a big-time player again in the Pacific Division to assuming their normal spot at the bottom because (again) they could not hold on to their best player. It was thought that Brand was opting out to give the Clippers room to sign Baron Davis and re-up soon after. Something obviously got in the way of this occurring and now Brand will be on one of the most dangerous teams in basketball.
We will hear all types of reasons why the deal couldn’t get done from both sides, but it is all a smoke screen. The reason Brand changed his mind is simple… He got a better contract than he expected after missing most of last season, he got closer to home and the 76ers are very good in a weak conference.
I believe he wanted to play with Baron, but this was too good to pass up – similar to Carlos Boozer going back on a promise to stay in Cleveland and then signing with the Utah Jazz.
The Clippers are now left to suffer and scrambling to figure out how good Baron Davis will be now without the 20-plus points and 10 rebounds Brand would bring. I believe the Clippers went from being possibly a 50-win team to a 35-win team in a matter of days because of this shocker.
They have good players in Chris Kaman and Al Thornton, but they are not the consistent offensive players Davis will need to take pressure off of him. If the Clippers fail to find a scorer on the free agent market or facilitate a trade for one, Davis will struggle all year because defenses will make life extremely difficult for him.
The Golden State Warriors have been the most exciting team in the league the last few years with Davis and now they will find out life will not be so grand without him. I truly love Don Nelson and his ability to find ways to score and be exciting. But Davis not only was the catalyst: He was the heart and soul of this team. Stephen Jackson and new acquisition Corey Maggette will find out in a hurry that Monta Ellis is not Davis. Ellis is a scorer not a distributor and that’s why the Warriors will struggle all year long with consistency in taking care of the ball.
I am also trying to determine how Maggette fits in with the Warriors when they already have a plethora of 6-foot-5 players that slash and run the floor. I understand he was the best unrestricted free agent left on the market, but the Warriors should have looked to add a point guard and possibly make a run at Josh Smith.
Smith thought he was in the cat bird seat with the Sixers until Brand showed interest and, poof, he lost out to the one piece the Sixers really needed to secure a deep run in the playoffs next season.
The Sixers were the most exciting team after the All-Star break last season and they have now solidified themselves as the team to watch next year. Maurice Cheeks put down his playbook last year and allowed Andre Miller to run and have fun and it worked. They have some of the best young talent in the league in Andre Iguodala, Thaddeus Young and Louis Williams. They have one of the best shot blockers in Samuel Dalembert. They have a Dennis Rodman type in Reggie Evans. Miller is definitely one of the best all-around point guards in the league. Now throw in Brand and the Sixers should definitely push the Wizards, Magic and Cavaliers for one of the top four seeds in the East next to Boston and Detroit.
I am left still trying to figure out why the Clippers are so snake bitten. Donald Sterling has opened his wallet in recent years and this team still gets bad breaks. Well, I hear Vegas might be for the taking and why not. This organization really needs a lucky roll of the dice soon! A change of scenery again might be the ticket.
Kemal Budak Said,
July 11, 2008 @ 6:13 pm
Hi Eddie,
Good article. I wanna add some more points in this issue: Elton Brand would have been a perennial all-star if he had played in the Eastern Conference instead of Clippers. Since there are plenty of power forwards in the West (Duncan, Nowitzki, Garnett (until last year), Gasol, Boozer, David West), he had to struggle with these big guys all year long. We all know that Brand is shorter than an-average power forward. But his aggressiveness compensates for his size. These above-mentioned guys always prevented him from being an All-Star. That’s why he was selected just twice. Now he can dominate Eastern Conference and he can cope with Rasheed Wallace, Bosh and Jermaine. KG will disturb him again and I don’t count Dwight because he is a center. He is one of my candidates for the All-Star.
Meanwhile Eastern Conference is becoming more and more competitive. As you said, there are really tough (Boston, Detroit, Cleveland), more experienced (Orlando, Philedelphia), more healthy (Wizards) and deeper (Toronto) teams in the East now.
Imran Q Said,
July 11, 2008 @ 6:49 pm
I am Clipper fan and I dont like how you ended your article saying the Clippers need a change of scenery. Contrary to what people think the Clippers have alot of support out here in LA and we will continue to support this team even though players will turn their back on us and lie (EB). Hopefully we can pull off a trade and fill the void at PF to solidify this roster. Baron is much needed for the guys on the roster and hopefully the development of the young players continues and the older players stay healthy the basketball gods owe us that much.
OUT
Buc Said,
July 11, 2008 @ 7:15 pm
People can talk about whatever teams they want, but beware the Charlotte Bobcats. Yes, THE same Bobcats who were a few games away from making the playoffs in the East without a healthy may or Morrison, who they will have back. Yes, THE Charlotte Bobcats threat drafted a true pure PG in Augustin to setup all those pieces the way felton never could. And YES, the same team that hired both Larry Brown and his brother Herb as an assistant, in which the last two times both were on the bench together resulted in a Finals appearance in Philly and a championship in Detroit. Beware of the Cats, stop hyping up Philly.
eddie Said,
July 11, 2008 @ 9:16 pm
Buc
Thanks for the laugh——–the Bobcats are at least 3 years away, maybe.
i must admit Larry Brown will make them play harder and more as a unit!
nikkiboy Said,
July 11, 2008 @ 9:44 pm
That was a good move by Brand, even with Baron with him I doubt they will be able to sneak into the playoffs in the overpowered West. The Clips can afford losing Maggette though since Thornton is a good player.
@ Buc
I doubt the Bobcats, they a lot of complimentary players but does not have a go-to-guy. Jason Richardson is close but at this point of his career he should have done more than he is doing…
**Funny my anti-spam verification code is “Hughes injured”
Edward Said,
July 11, 2008 @ 9:57 pm
Hey buddy you forgot the Raptors.Just because they’re a Canadian team, they’re still in the NBA.Don’t worry all you American Credits will see!!!
James Said,
July 11, 2008 @ 10:52 pm
Philadelphia is a playoff team, sure. Are they a top team in the east? I like Orlando as the third best team behind Boston and Detroit. Dwight Howard is becoming more of a beast each year, Hedo Turkoglu really stepped up, Jameer Nelson is improving, and Rashard Lewis is still producing. Get them a decent SG and they are an elite team. Is Philadelphia better than Cleveland? Maybe. I’m not sure Brand is going to make this team so much better to be saying they are now an elite team in the east.
I like the Hawks and Bobcats. More so the Hawks. If Josh Smith comes back, they are my dark horse in the playoffs. Al Horford is on his way to beastdom, Josh Smith is a perennial F in this league, Joe Johnson is a great scorer, and players like Josh Childress, Marvin Williams, Zaza, and Bibby will continue to contribute. Toronto too. I’m really hooping Bargnani pulls through and becomes the post threat he is suppose to be, O’Neal still has something in the tank, Bosh is peaking right now, and Calderon has given the franchise confidence. Something tells me the red and black are about to be a force to be reckoned with.
Philly Lord Said,
July 11, 2008 @ 10:57 pm
That was a great move for Elton. He will truly become an All Star, and even better than Jermaine in Canada.
id Said,
July 12, 2008 @ 5:49 am
you’re forgetting that Elton Brand is a loser….
Celtics247.com » Blog Archive » Today’s Links 7/12 Said,
July 12, 2008 @ 8:42 am
[...] The O’Bryant signing Red’s Army Go lobby House and Posey yourselves Hoopshype Philly moves to the front Hoopsworld Lakers on the clock Seattle PI Nostalgic Ray Allen basking in glory Patriot Ledger [...]
stone Said,
July 12, 2008 @ 9:13 am
The sixers lack an outside shooter to spread the floor. They’re very athletic and, yes, Brand makes them better, but when playing a half court game the lack of shooters will make them easy to defend. They should have kept Korver.
Noah Said,
July 12, 2008 @ 10:30 am
Thanks for the great article, Eddie… I agree that the Sixers will be very dangerous this year. They have the perfect compliment of young talent (Iggy, Lou, Thad, Sam, Speights) and veteran leadership (Miller & Brand)… and all of these guys seem to play hard. They’re team guys, and I believe the chemistry of this team will be tremendous. They will sign a sharpshooter for the veteran minimum by the end of the summer, and this team will be ready to contend. Hey, Eddie, would you suit up and don a Sixers uni? We need a 3-point shooter, and I’ll bet you can still make it rain…
Phil McCraken Said,
July 12, 2008 @ 10:38 am
You guys act like the East is so weak and Brand is just going to come in and dominate. Can’t wait to see Brand get dunked on by Maxiell.
Jay Said,
July 12, 2008 @ 11:11 am
The Sixers need to do something about their outside shooting. Who’s going to knock down shots when they double Brand? Although, they do play defense and defense will always give them a chance. J.R. Smith has a poor rep but I think if he remained focused then he would be the perfect player for this team. His outside shooting and athleticism would mesh really well.
Buc Said,
July 12, 2008 @ 3:20 pm
3 years away? Eddie, you must not know much about the team. Again, NEARLY made the playoffs last season without Morrison or May. Was top 5 in defensive fg% for the beginning of the 2006-2007. Keep sleeping… but come next season, I better not come on here reading you praising them if they turn out to be the 2008-2009 Hornets.
Tom Said,
July 12, 2008 @ 4:45 pm
What would happen If Philly got Ron Artest Now, and Added a Back-up F like Ryan Gomes + a Back-up Point Gaurd Like Jason Williams ? I think Philly would be in the conferance Finals.
eddie Said,
July 12, 2008 @ 5:28 pm
BUC
dont worry. they will not make the playoffs for at least three years.
Diddy Said,
July 12, 2008 @ 7:39 pm
totally agree with Buc. the bobcats could very well steal the 7th or 8th spot, if healthy. Larry Brown works wonders with teams dont nobody expects to really go far (see the 94 and 95 pacers, also the 99 and 01 sixers). they have a solid team and will surprise a few people. i dont think u, eddie were one of the people who predicted philly in the playoffs last year, or toronto in the playoffs the year before that so i think there is another surprise in store….this is how im ranking these teams at the moment:
1) Boston - self explanatory, defending champs
Milwaukee - this will be a solid team that is defensively minded under Scott Skiles. i’ll be surprised if they dont get in
2) Cleveland - they are better than Detroit. they gave Boston the most trouble, and we already have seen how Lebron dominated last year
3) Detroit - still waiting on what moves they will make this off-season
4) Orlando - until they prove as mentally tough as the three above, gotta put them here
5) Toronto - depending on how healthy Jermaine O’Neal is, and if the raps can find a backup PG and a ok slasher, this can go way up
6) Washington - has everyone forgot about this team?? they are very dangerous with 3 healthy allstars, albeit a BIG if
7) Philadelphia - this seems harsh but they still lack any type of shooter, not too sure about Brand’s health. they will be a 1st round exit, i think theyre a year away from dominance
9) Atlanta - depending of if they can hold on to Josh Smith, this team will be higher. Theyre a young team getting better
10) Charlotte - i’m telling you. the bobcats can go as high as #7, especially if injuries happen to other teams. im predicting they are the sleeper for 2009
11) Miami - Yes they have Wade Marion and Beasley, i know, but something isnt right yet. very impressed with Mario Chalmers though. they need a big man still
12) Indiana - TJ Ford is a lot better than people think. give him a normal starters minutes (36) and he averages about 19pts, 9ast. i like the pieces on this team, but they will fall short. hope is there though.
13) Chicago - not the year for them to make noise. theyre just not a very good team right now
14) New York - will D’Antoni be the man to turn around this “basketball abomination” (Stephen A. Smith). we’ll see. i dont think this year.
15) New Jersey - paving the way for Lebron. thats all im saying. im just wondering when they’ll trade Vince. he is now in a way worse situation then he was with Toronto. the grass isnt always greener on the other side buddy.
Diddy Said,
July 12, 2008 @ 7:41 pm
oops, Milwaukee is supposed to be #8, not a smiley face LOL. but anyway i want to hear your thoughts
Tom Said,
July 12, 2008 @ 8:00 pm
Eddie, Do You think Philly Will make a Run at Shawn Marion Next Year?
Richard Said,
July 12, 2008 @ 10:47 pm
Hmm…don’t know about the Bobcats-yes, they won, what, 32 games? Not bad without my Zag boy Adam M. and May. So…sure, good luck.
Question: how bad does one see the Clips doing? I mean, Tim Thomas(don’t laugh; he lit it up for Phoenix 2 years ago) CAN BE effective, losing Maggette isn’t that bad, not much of a setback, and Thornton, IMO, seemed to be impressive/on his way to improving last year, as a rookie. So, hopefully, picking up some decent veteran free agent, and just maybe, they could pull another Warrriors story of 2006-2007? Kaman can help; don’t know about Paul Davis. Really, did anyone think the Warriors were going to slip into the Western Conference Playoffs, 8th seed, and then upset Dallas? Could happen again, not saying it will, but B-Diddy is a money player; don’t bet against him. Philly obviously will be better/competitive with Brand; 50 wins is possible, IMO. GS, well, they need a real PG now. Ellis isn’t Baron Davis; yes, more of a scorer than playmaker. Maybe there is a FA PG out there for the taking. Good Veteran; Earl Boykins? Thanks….
Tony Vaughn Said,
July 13, 2008 @ 12:11 am
How’s everthing E.J.? Let’s look at some critical analysis. No doubt the the Sixers will be improved but can they overtake Detroit, Cleveland, Boston,or Orlando in the playoffs. In order to decide the true impact of acquisitions we have to look at team chemistry, total team maturity (knowledge of what it takes to win plus the acceptance of being role players), increased team ability (i.e. shooting %, defensive and offensive rebounding, scoring in the paint, etc,..), and key match-ups as to whether we can exploit and neutralize our opponents with our starters or win with our bench strength. All planning should start with match-ups of the previous years playoff teams. In order to go to the next level in the playoffs you need specific game plans for each team, quarter, posession and player. How far can a team get without a legitimate “big man”? It’s all about winning in the post season. Hey Ed! Since you are from the Windy City what’s the winning prescription for the Bulls! Will there be a revival in Chicago under`Vinny Del Negro? I think Vinny is the real deal. He understands player profiles and potential and has a burning passion for the method of winning. What’s the inside scoop?
Lupe Said,
July 13, 2008 @ 11:40 am
I think the 76ers will be the 4th best team in the east behind Boston, Detroit, and the Magic. Last year they were 40-42 with Thadeus Young/Reggie Evans at the PF, but with Brand in the mix I expect that record to break past .500. The only player who may suffer from this is probably Rodney Carney. Young will probably eat his minutes at the 3, and Willie is penned in as the back-up on the 2. The only thing missing is a 3-point specialist. (Sadly, Korver being traded away was necessary)
Buc, in regards to the Cats, I don’t see Morrison having an impact when he returns. The reason being is that the Bobcats are entrenched at the 2-3 with J-Rich, and G-Wallace. Those two are more athletic, better defensively, and just better scorers. Both are close to being All-stars, and if they need a outside-shooter they stick with Matt Carrol, or Richardson(he has become a marksman from behind the arc). May is ok in the post, but I’ll concede he’d improve them somewhat since they are weak in the bigs department anyway. I like Augustin though, and if the Bobcats get a nice big out of Felton, make another wise move in the Lottery, and if they don’t chafe under Larry Brown they may make the playoffs in the next few years…….but that’s a lot of ifs.
Diddy Said,
July 13, 2008 @ 12:08 pm
Lupe:
1)Carney was traded to the Wolves to make room for the Brand deal money wise, along with Calvin Booth and a 1st round pick
2)Cleveland is underrated. they had a lot of injuries, and players adjusting to a new system via trade and went 44-38
3)Philly will definetely be over 500. However where they will go after that is unknown in my opinion. I dont think we will be seeing any more teams in the playoffs with under 40 wins for quite some time now.
mike Said,
July 13, 2008 @ 2:22 pm
ill make this short and sweet..yes brand will make the 76ers better..but last year was a fluke..there not that great..there the worst 3pt shooting team in the league as well…i think there the 6th best behind celtics,pistons,magic,cavs,raptors…miller is getting old..who knows how good brand will be..AI cant make jump shots..dont get me wrong..brand will improve them..but to say there going to be an elite team in the east..no way..right now..id take calderon/bosh over miller/brand and id take a lebron team over that sixers team anyday as well
Lupe Said,
July 13, 2008 @ 3:31 pm
I have totally erred in regards to Carney, thanks Diddy. Even though Wally/West/Wallace were adjusting to a new system, I still have my doubts that they will be so much better in Cleveland’s system after going through training camp(or Varejao who skipped it last year due to contract disputes). Both Wallace and Wally are getting long in the tooth, specifically Wallace who has lost a step defensively sadly. I still think the Cavs will still be in the playoffs thanks to Lebron’s genius, they will make a deep run regardless of seed, but I think unless Danny Ferry brings Lebron a sidekick, he will be title-less once again next year.
I picked Philly fourth because:
1. I don’t expect Boston, Detroit, or Orlando to finish below the top 3.
2. The Wizards are kind of murky to me since we have yet to see how well Arenas recovers.
3. Cleveland hasn’t changed much, and Ilgasukas, Wallace, Wally are getting old. Lebron will always bring/improve his game every year, but will every player not named Lebron make the strides necessary to help him. Also I think LBJ doesn’t care about seeding, he’ll will these team to the second round at least regardless how the regular season plays out.
4. The Hawks will be better since all their guys are young with room to grow. I see them around .500 since they have maturity issues.
5. This was hard, Toronto now goes full time with Calderon who led the league in A/T(and the arrival of J.O.), but in all honesty it was a toss up between the Raptors and 76ers. Elton seemed to return to form at the end of the season so I expect to see him play as 20/10 Elton whereas Jermaine hasn’t answered the health question as thoroughly.
Besides being the leader of A/TO, Jose had a 50/40/90 season, he now joins Mark Price, Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, and Larry Bird as the only guys to join the exclusive club. Sorry, he’s one of my fave players, just throwing it out there.
What do you guys think of seeding in the east?
Diddy Said,
July 13, 2008 @ 6:24 pm
no problem lupe. i put my standings above….i think boston detroit orlando cleveland and toronto are all above philly at this point. we’ll see what unfolds soon enough though. oh and dont sleep on milwaukee
bballer Said,
July 13, 2008 @ 9:27 pm
why are people rating the raps so high when they have the worst 2/3 players in the entire nba? not one person in the rotation has scored more than 15ppg. yes they will be better @ the 4/5 position, but even the backup pg position is debatable. if anything they will make the 7 or 8 seed if the raps are lucky. philly will be the 4th seed. they were one of the top 3 teams in the nba after the allstar break and now they have a proven low post scorer. atlanta, washington and indy will be competing for the 7 - 9 spot. bobcats - no chance. who is the cats low post scorer? okafor may be as good as gone. milwaukee will do better than the cats.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 14, 2008 @ 10:55 am
The Sixers were great in the last half of the season because of the speed of their game. Elton Brand is most effective in a half court set. So… Why does this make the Sixers so much better? He slows them down. This makes them look a lot like the 2002-03 Clippers. I love Elton Brand, but I don’t think that he’s the Sixers answer.
AND STOP SAYING THAT THE EAST IS A WEAK CONFERENCE!!! It’s trite and cliche and lazy and simply not true. And, Eddie, you should know better.
The spotlight should be on the Orlando Magic. They picked up a player that fits their system and now gives them one of the best starting 5 in the league, if not THE best. Pietrus was underused and overshadowed in Oakland, but he built a shooter’s confidence because of the style of play and Nellie’s love of the long ball. He’s giving Orlando good size at the 2, and a great compliment to DHoward. I really wished that Cleveland would have landed him.
eddie Said,
July 14, 2008 @ 1:22 pm
Edward
my bad i should have included the Raptors
eddie Said,
July 14, 2008 @ 1:25 pm
Guys who said the sixers would over take anybody? why don’t some of you guys read.
All i said was they would fight for a top 4 seed! which is in the front along with three others
eddie Said,
July 14, 2008 @ 1:27 pm
who are we comparing the East too Michael? ok i sure you said the west right? ok well duh——–THEY ARE WEAK.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 14, 2008 @ 6:28 pm
Celtics
Pistons
Magic
Cavs
Wizards
Hawks
These are all good teams. They’re just as good as:
Lakers
Hornets
Spurs
Jazz
Suns
Rockets
Oh, yeah. And, the WORLD CHAMPIONS are in what conference? THE EAST.
Tom Said,
July 14, 2008 @ 9:59 pm
Why wouldn’t Philly have a shot to be better than Washington and Atlanta?
What about Chicago?
kingsblade Said,
July 15, 2008 @ 12:43 am
Isn’t it interesting how every team in the west ecept for 4 had their winning percentages inflated by their games against the eastern conference. The Lakers, Mavs,Clippers, and Sonics were the only teams to perform better against the west than the east.
Conversely only the Celtics, Pistons, Cavs, and Sixers, performed as well against the west as they did against the east.
When teams from the west consistently outperform teams form the east in head to head matchups they are clearly the better conference.
kingsblade Said,
July 15, 2008 @ 12:44 am
Pardon my typing in the previous post. It’s getting late.
Edward Said,
July 15, 2008 @ 6:47 am
Hey guy’s you realize that the Pistons are about to burst. Joe Dumars is desperately trying to move players. This team is getting older and I truly think they will not finish top 3 , dido Cleveland. This team rellies on Lebron too much , they will also drop.
- Diddy you hit it right on the nail , about the Vince comment. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Hey he wanted to play for a winning team , who’s the better team now Vince?! He who laugh’s last , laughs better!
eddie Said,
July 15, 2008 @ 2:46 pm
Kingsblade check out my blog page wall of fame
www’jumpshotclub.com
Michael you are in trouble now —lol
kingsblade Said,
July 15, 2008 @ 7:08 pm
Great. Now I have my name beside a guy who inexplicably believes the eastern conference to be as good as the west.
Just kidding, thanks Eddie
Michael Bennett Said,
July 15, 2008 @ 8:40 pm
Correction, kingsblade - you have your name UNDER a guy who inexplicably believes the eastern conference to be as good as the west. Not BESIDE.
And, the difference between us is that I am on the Wall of Fame because a DISAGREE with Eddie all the time, but still made my arguments legitimate. You AGREE with him, and he puts you up there.
What’s the deal? I feel like bugging my eyes, adjusting my neck tie and saying “I don’t get no respect.”
kingsblade Said,
July 16, 2008 @ 3:27 am
That is not true. I have been in agreement with Eddie on the last couple of issues, but I have also disagreed with him quite vehemently on others.
In fact I am still irritated by his position that people who never played in the NBA cannot be good coaches.
kingsblade Said,
July 16, 2008 @ 3:33 am
It almost seems like you are saying that your arguments are more legitimate just because they are in disagreement. That just does not follow at all.
You also have a tendency to just ignore posts when you have no decent response, and worse, a tendency to forgo providing an argument but rather merely stating your position as fact. That is not arguing.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 16, 2008 @ 7:30 am
And your posts are missing a key element to every good argument… humor. Without it, you’re a subway vagrant on a soap box. You’re a pitch from used car salesman. You’re a dinner time telemarketer. You’re a dentist.
kingsblade Said,
July 16, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
ah, because so many people find you amusing, is that it? In order to be considered funny more people than just yourself need to laugh.
Though it is intersting that you mention a used car salesman, because your version of comedy has the same forced feel to it as a bad used car salesman.
Or should I take it back because of the comedic gem you presented by pointing out that my name was beneath yours, not beside? I don’t know if my heart can take the laughter.
Though I suppose I got a good laugh out of your claims that the east is as good as the west.
There is no point trying to be funny in a blog comment unless it can be made clearly obvious you are joking, because too many people never get it otherwise. Irony rarely translates, and most other humor opportunities are rare. Instead they’ll just find you annoying, kind of the way most people here seem to think of you.
By the way, was you little list of unfunny things supposed to be funny as well? Stop trying so hard, and maybe your ‘humor’ might start to actually be funny for a change.
kingsblade Said,
July 16, 2008 @ 12:31 pm
Now look what you’ve done Eddie. You’ve gone and upset Michael.
Maybe for a few days we should all pretend that the east is really good and that LeBron has a great looking jumpshot. It might help soothe his ego.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 16, 2008 @ 1:20 pm
Blah, blah, blah. Your hockey mind isn’t useful in a basketball blog. Plus, you’re a last word freak. Calm down, Mr. Six Page Response. And, tell me who won the NBA Championship. Was it a team out of the East? Er…?
bballer Said,
July 16, 2008 @ 2:30 pm
3 out of the last 5 nba champs came from the east. in the 80’s until now, the east has won 16/28 championships. yes the west may be deeper from 1-15 but there is only one champion. who cares which division is better. just enjoy the league. the east is about 10 teams deep, the west is 12 teams deep. the west in nowhere near as dominant as previously. boston, detroit, orlando and now philly can compete against anyone. plus, if boston was able to dismantle the lakers so easily after struggling with eastern teams, whereas the lakers coasted through the west, once can easily conclude the east is tougher.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 16, 2008 @ 2:37 pm
Thank you, bballer.
All I’m saying is that it’s not as lopsided as everyone thinks. The East is great. The West is great. The kingsblade is not.
Kingsblade Said,
July 16, 2008 @ 3:47 pm
Oops, there’s that vaunted humor again.
Look everyone, he used hockey as examples a couple of times so I’ll point it out and it will be hilarious. Well done Bennett. Brilliant.
There is no point explaining my basketball resume because, the only person here with verifiable basketball credentials is Eddie, so you may as well leave your irrelevant comments aside please.
You also obviously said more than “it is not as lopsided as everyone thinks,” because you for some reason included a team that went 37-45 and compared them to top western conference teams….or was this another of your hilarious jokes?
bballer:
You make a good point, but what we are talking about is which conference is better now, and pointing out the eastern championships in the 90’s is hardly relevant.
The more recent championships do mean quite a bit more, but the quality of a conference has to do with more than which has the best team in the league. It has to do with which conference is better overall.
Looking at it this way, based on records, only 3 eastern teams would have made the western playoffs, while 11 teams in the west would have made the playoff in the east. Add that to my earlier point about relative performance against the opposing conference and the difference actually becomes more pointed rather than less. It seem pretty clear that the west is a superior conference.
The east seems to be improving, and I am glad for that, but they have quite a ways to go in my opinion.
Kingsblade Said,
July 16, 2008 @ 3:53 pm
Look Bennett, I’m not a last word freak, I just enjoy arguing, but if you can’t do better than, blah blah, you like hockey, and you suck, then it just isn’t worth it anymore.
You used to try at least…is everything ok at home? Stress at work? What is it?
Michael Bennett Said,
July 16, 2008 @ 5:04 pm
Simply pointing out team records is probably the laziest method of arguing East vs. West possible. Does it matter that the 37-45 team I mentioned took the World Champions to a 7 game series? I think so. Does it matter that West’s Conference Championship was with two rather weak teams? I think so.
The key words there are ‘think’, kingsblade. Thinking. You should try it. Any dunce can look at records and blurt out “The West is better!” You are proof of that. But, if you really look at the game and analyze, you’ll realize that it’s a little more complex.
Proof of me winning THIS argument is you stooping so low as to mention home, work, etc. This is an argument about the NBA. I could be making my side of the argument from a jail cell or a mansion, between Playboy bunnies or crusty old men. We’ll never know. We will know that you’re losing THIS argument.
kingsblade Said,
July 16, 2008 @ 11:57 pm
I didn’t simply point out team records, it was an addendum to an earlier point. Certainly it is more complex, and so was my point taken as it was set out. The fact is that there is not a single statistic available in which the west did not outplay the east in interconference play. None.
Do you really believe it requires thinking to claim that the since the 8 took the 1 to seven games in the east, and the Celtics won, the east must be better? That is a reach at best. Do you really think the Celtics showed up every game? They couldn’t possibly have looked past the Hawks could they? The Celtics had little trouble winning any game where they actually applied themselves during the eastern playoffs, with the notable exception of game 7 vs the cavs after lebron woke up.
I mentioned work and home because it seemed like you stopped trying. I was trying to be sensitive to whatever personal problem might be distracting you. Since you were so bothered by my assumptions perhaps you grasp now why it is ridiculous for you to make assumptions about my basketball credentials.
You still have got to be able to do better than this. So far your only arguments are that the Hawks went 7 games and that the Celtics won the title. How can you possibly accuse me of oversimplification after providing nothing more than these brilliant tidbits that seem more like Stephen A. Smith soundbites than a real argument.
It is impossible for me to lose the argument until you actually PRESENT an argument. Statements of opinion as fact prove nothing, and so far all you have given me are 2 embarrasingly oversimplified points. Hardly a well though out argument. The worst part is how you ignore valid points made and just repeat yourself ad nauseum.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 17, 2008 @ 11:54 am
kingsblade = brick wall of idiocy. YOU repeat yourself, YOU have the blinders, YOU are repeating what other dummies say. Here’s a nice breakdown of the East and West:
EAST’S BEST TEAMS (in no particular order) -
(1) BOSTON CELTICS - By far, the best team in the NBA. And, three out of the top 30 players in the league play for this team in Garnett, Pierce, Allen.
(2) DETROIT PISTONS - Although rumors are swirling, the core of Billups, Hamilton, Prince and Rasheed are still intact. This is one of the best and most consistent teams of the last 5 years.
(3) CLEVELAND CAVALIERS - The best player in the world, LeBron, makes this team always great and one of the best teams in the league. Record doesn’t show how good this team actually is.
(4) ORLANDO MAGIC - By adding Pietrus, the Magic just entered the elite category. They’re one of the top 1-5 teams, maybe the best on paper. Dwight Howard is arguably the league’s best big man, and Lewis, Turkoglu and Nelson round out a great supporting cast.
(5) WASHINGTON WIZARDS - Plagued by injuries more often than not, when this team is healthy, they are as good as anyone in the league. Again, record never shows how good they actually are. Their core of Arenas, Butler and Jamison is unstoppable when healthy.
(6) TORONTO RAPTORS - They now have the best 4/5 combo in the league Jermaine O’Neal and Chris Bosh. And a very good, young PG in Calderon. Again, record doesn’t show everything. This team will be a force in the league.
(7) PHILADELPHIA 76ERS - Eddie says they’re now in the top of the East. I think they’ll be fantastic with a great nucleus of Andre Miller, Iguodala, Brand and Dalembert. They’ll match up with any team in the league.
(8) CHICAGO BULLS - Last year was a fluke year for this young team. The Skiles situation was caught 2 months too late, and they never recovered. But, this team has been a solid team for the past four years, and look for them to regain their spot in the top 8.
(9) MIAMI HEAT - Last year’s crazy fluke season of injuries and the worst record in the league won’t last. If you think this is really the worst team in the league, think again. DWade, Marion, now Beasley and Chalmers will make this team great again.
(10) ATLANTA HAWKS - If Josh Smith stays, they are a really good team. If he goes, they go. So, this is the only team I’m not sure about.
Okay. So, the East has 10 teams… fine, 9 teams that can handle any team in the league. Talent and team. They are all great teams. Here’s the…
WEST’S BEST TEAMS (in no particular order - I don’t need to breakdown the West for you “West Is Better” fans, do I?) -
(1) LA LAKERS
(2) NEW ORLEANS HORNETS
(3) SAN ANTONIO SPURS
(4) UTAH JAZZ
(5) HOUSTON ROCKETS
(6) PHOENIX SUNS
(7) DALLAS MAVERICKS
and this is where the teams start to get shaky, even if they have winning records or decent records in comparison -
(8) DENVER NUGGETS
(9) GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS
(10) PORTLAND BLAZERS
The East is weak, huh? Like I said… lazy, trite, simply not true.
Kingsblade Said,
July 17, 2008 @ 2:27 pm
Ah yes, the classic “you are an idiot” argument. Good point, why didn’t I think of that. How can you really go on about how you are the thinker and I am the Parrot while you regularly fall back on name calling?
Sometimes there is a good reason why EVERYONE says the same thing - because it is true! Just because I have come to a similar conclusion it does even come close to following that I reached it based on what others have said. Conversely it doesn’t make you any more clever to take a contrary position, it just makes you contrary.
I believe I have stated repeatedly that the east is improving, but have a ways to go.
I chose records as a point to mention because records are generally a culmination of overall performance. Claiming they mean nothing is a fall back for losing teams. The truth of the matter is that the west dominated the east last year in every possible statistical category, and records are a culmination of that as well. If you like I can list them one by one, but records seems a fair generalization to everyone but you.
You, on the other hand, think the east will be good because you expect most of the conference to improve based on off season moves that, with the exception of brand, all come with giant question marks. Maybe we should wait to see how they pan out first.
With that said, and with the, newly commenced yet for you long overdue,
arrival of your signature name calling I am done with this discussion.
As an interesting aside - the same Dalembert that you mentioned as a key core player for the sixers has been asked by team Canada to go home from the olympic qualifying tournament being played right now. In other words, a desperate team which needs to win their next few games and has only 2 nba players asked him to kindly leave. What an impact player he must be.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 17, 2008 @ 2:54 pm
Yeah - The Dalembert situation is a good example that he’s a horrible play that has no impact in the NBA. Right… he had nothing to do with the 76ers success last year. Good one, kingsblade. THIS is why I name call. Because YOU write things like that.
Kingsblade Said,
July 17, 2008 @ 4:18 pm
ummmm….I mentioned as an aside, as in, a statement which is aside from our conversation.
You can tell because I prefaced the story with the words “as an interesting aside.”
Do I really have to explain to you what an aside means? I can’t believe you are calling others idiots while such simple concepts escape your grasp.
I just thought it was interesting that a guy who is considered a core player on an nba team could not make a positive impact for a weak team like Canada.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 17, 2008 @ 6:00 pm
Just because the coaches of Team Canada think he’s not a fit for them DOESN’T MEAN HE’S NOT A GOOD FIT FOR THEM!!! Man. You are really not getting it, are you? Like I wrote before, brick wall.
Was it right for LeBron and Carmelo to sit on the bench for the 2004 Olympic team? The answer is no. But, they sat… because the coaches didn’t think they’d help.
Are you starting to understand, kingsblade? Just because you wrote ‘as an aside’ doesn’t mean that I can’t argue your stupid ‘interesting’ mention. Man…
Are you six years old living in a bubble? Er… Aren’t you from Canada? That might explain some things. Your brain is frozen for half the year… the same half of the year that basketball is on.
kingsblade Said,
July 17, 2008 @ 8:50 pm
The thing you’re missing is the fact that I have been watching the games and have had conversations with people from basketball Canada about it. He has been worse than useless. He has been almost embarrassing.
Are you actually trying to speak authoritatively on an issue which you obviously know nothing more than that he was asked to leave? You are clearly completely ignorant on the issue, yet you still seem to want to argue it anyways. Well at least we all now know how full of shit you are.
Grow up will you? Can you not just discuss things without throwing a fit like Isiah Thomas after being turned down for ‘off-site private time’? Disagree all you want, but please try and do it with some decorum.
The point, and the difference between him and the players you mentioned, if you bothered to notice before launching into your infantile vitriol, is that a player like Dalembert should have been the best player by a mile. He has been nothing short of a diva who felt that effort was beneath him. He had no impact in the games, and after being pulled Canada came back from 18 down to win. His impact has been zero.
Now I personally believe that Rautins is a second rate coach, and is likely partially to blame, but on a team as weak as they are Dalembert should have had some sort of positive effect regardless of the coach. He hasn’t been on the bench, he has been playing, only doing it with no effect on the game, other than being beaten to the ball, beaten defensively, and throwing up sidearm airballs from 6 feet out.
Before spouting half-baked half-retarded comparisons try at least knowing at least a little bit about what you are arguing about. I never said he was not a good fit, I said he did not make a positive impact. Anyone who watched even 5 minutes of his pathetic playing time would agree with that assessment, so do not angrily argue the contrary without even the slightest clue.
…do you really consider a 20 point turnaround accomplished almost entirely by taking him off the floor to be the coaches fault for not liking him?
Michael Bennett Said,
July 17, 2008 @ 9:48 pm
And, this is exactly why you changed the subject to Dalembert/Canada. You know that you were beaten like a dog on the East vs. West show.
I thought you were ‘done with this conversation’…?
kingsblade Said,
July 18, 2008 @ 12:02 am
I’m done with the east-west conversation.
I quit that one when you quit trying to use legitimate arguments.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 18, 2008 @ 11:37 am
You don’t know what you’re talking about. My 11:54am post is my side. Your side is repeating records.
Win goes to MB!
kingsblade Said,
July 18, 2008 @ 12:24 pm
I would have responded to that post, which is full of predictions based on question marks, had you not at that point started with the name calling.
In short, that was not an argument, those were predictions, including many that depend on questionable premises.
Multiple times I referred beyond records, but your one track mind can’t seem to hold on to anything else, instead of responding you called me idiot. This is why I will no longer discuss the issue.
Start conversing reasonably again and I could be persuaded to revisit the conversation, otherwise, go take a cold shower since you seem to be getting off on calling people idiot.
David Said,
July 18, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
……and in this corner, weighing………
Gotta say that I really enjoy the banter, guys. Keep it up. On my way to NY manana, so I’ll log on at Starbucks (for free) and keep checking.
Later.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 19, 2008 @ 10:54 am
I love how some people come on here and complain about me calling them an idiot… all in route to hurling twenty of their own insults.
It’s just an excuse to give up on the argument. “Oh, you called me an ‘idiot’. I refuse to carry on this conversation. Boo, hoo.” Give me a break. If I call you an idiot, chances are… you are just that. So, pull up your pants and act like a human.
kingsblade Said,
July 19, 2008 @ 12:30 pm
You really don’t get it do you?
I thought that you just pretended not to just to be difficult.
You start off every argument explaining your position, but as soon as you start getting frustrated your tone changes and everything becomes some variation of “yur stoopid.” You even try to brag about being funny, all the while resorting to “you’re an idiot” every chance you get. How original and hilarious.
I did not insult you until you started into this phase.
…and you can’t have it both ways, am I a last word freak or am I a guy who looks for excuses to give up on an argument? Some consistency would be nice for a change. I already said that I love to argue, but when the other side starts to sound like a junior high gym class who watnts to keep going?
The point is…when you argue reasonably I am happy to go on indefinitely, when you deteriorate into your name-calling phase it just isn’t worth it anymore. As far as I can tell pretty much everyone else feels the same way, so you might want to consider the possibility that it isn’t just me….although I suppose I am just repeating what everyone is saying again, so it can’t possibly be valid can it.
kingsblade Said,
July 19, 2008 @ 4:10 pm
…and by the way, I’m not complaining about being called idiot, but once you resort to that the argument has nowhere to go but downhill. Therefore there is no point continuing it.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 19, 2008 @ 5:15 pm
Reading your posts is like pulling teeth. Really. Now we’re arguing about… arguing?
I think the East is just as good as the West. There’s not that much of a different - both really good conferences. I stated reasons why. You thought they were predictions (because you’re an idiot
) which they weren’t at all. That was my side. You brought up records, writing that was the reason why the West is better. Again, I think that’s a lazy, trite and oversimplification of the NBA… hence me calling you an idiot (again).
I would use another word to describe you, but ‘idiot’ sums it all up. So…
And, this isn’t kid’s corner. We argue, and sometimes add insults. It doesn’t bother me. You’re the one who starts whining and complaining about it and stating that you’ll stop the argument because it goes downhill. But, in reality, you change the subject to arguing, and the ways to argue. Ugh!
I’m still waiting for a logical response as to why the West is so much better than the East. You stated records. Anyone who has half a brain knows that records don’t paint the whole picture. So? Drop the tissue, and talk turkey.
kingsblade Said,
July 19, 2008 @ 9:05 pm
“this isn’t kid’s corner”
That is exactly my point. Stop talking like a hormonal 8th grader and grow up. I think it is even more lazy and trite to just blurt out “idiot” every time you disagree with someone.
Why did I call them predictions? Fine, here.
Toronto - Maybe the trade improves them, maybe not. You are calling them the equivalent to a western playoff team based on a huge question mark named O’Neal.
Miami - This one is amusing…your reasoning for comparing to a western playoff team includes 2 rookies and “why won’t anybody love me” Marion. When has a team that will rely on 2 rookies as much as you suggest ever won much of anything?
Washington - You seem to be predicting more of these guys than is likely. The return of Arenas will do very littile for them. He will just take shots that were going to the other 2 this year. The ought to trade one of the three for some inside presence.
Chicago - Here you are predicting that they will magically turn things around, I assume with some help from Rose. They will still be essentially the team they were last year. They are terrible under the basket. They cannot score because they only do it from outside of 15 feet, and this meakes them predictable, and thus, defendable. It is hard ot win when everyone knows you can’t go inside.
Orlando - You here predict the Pietrus is their golden ticket to elite status? When has the addition of a guy who has come off the bench his whole career to date ever launched a team into the upper echelon? Especially when they focus on spreading the floor in their offense and the newly arrived player is not really a great shooter?
Those are you predictions. They account for half of your list of teams you seem to think are as good as western playoff teams.
Philly should improve, but now they just remind me of a few padt clipper teams.
I expect Boston and Detroit to be more or less as they were.
I have no idea why you think Cleveland is so great other than your man-crush on James. They will not even be as good as last year if they can’t swing a deal somewhere.
As for team records? I have explained it repeatedly, and now will ATTEMPT to get through to you for a fourth time.
Once again - I explicitly stated that the west dominated the east in head to head play in every single team statistical category. I mentioned records as a quick overview of that domination, but I have also repeated explained that it went far beyond records.
Furthermore, as you are so fond of pointing out, of course records do not paint the whole picture, but when the difference is as dramatic as it has been you cannot possibly be serious when you write it off like you do. It would be kind of like claiming that shooting percentages don’t tell the whole story when presented with 2 players who have shooting percentages of 60% and 25%. Obviously that statistical measure itself does not explain everything, but a difference as obvious as that clearly means something.
The west dominated the east in head to head play in the following statistical categories:
Team fg %
Opp. fg%
ft%
3pt %
Team defensive efficiency
Team offensive efficiency
team assists/game
turnovers/game
team ppg
opp ppg
scoring differential
rpg
bpg
spg
There are more, but I think that’s enough. The thing about it is that the east was not even close in most categories. The top teams in the east were, but the rest are just plain bad.
Do you know what happens when one conference dominates all of these stats? The also dominate the WIN/LOSS column.
I heartily agree that the west will suffer a bit of a setback this year. Some of the middle of the road teams will not be as good, but strangely enough their rosters still look as good or better than most of the teams in the east.
I think that you are just grasping to your “records don’t mean anything” mantra to justify claiming the Cavs are a top team.
kingsblade Said,
July 19, 2008 @ 11:12 pm
short version: IF everything you think is going to happen does happen then the east might get closer to the west, but you have a suspiciously large number of ifs in your argument. (and they ARE ‘ifs’, even if you did’t specifically use the word ‘if’)
Michael Bennett Said,
July 20, 2008 @ 12:13 pm
What the…? Why no post from me? What’s the story?
Michael Bennett Said,
July 20, 2008 @ 12:19 pm
Last year, in the regular season, Atlanta beat Dallas, Phoenix, Utah, Denver, LA Lakers and Golden State - all teams with better records than them. Similarly, Washington beat New Orleans, Dallas and Portland. Philadelphia beat Portland, Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, San Antonio and Denver. This was LAST YEAR. But, the these mid-tier/low-tier teams still beat West powerhouses.
Your simple, stupid logic makes Denver (50-32) better than Cleveland (45-37), Washington, Philadelphia and Atlanta. Your stupid logic also makes Sacramento (38-44) better than Atlanta (37-45). There are more… more stupid logic of kingsblade. See. My write-up of the East wasn’t a prediction. It was a logical observations based on watching the game of basketball. When a team adds good players, they get better. What a concept! Wow! RIGHT NOW, the East is as good as the West because of player transactions and maturity of young, good players. It’s that simple.
kingsblade - you don’t even stick with the issue at hand. Your live in bubble rebuttals - your responses only make sense to YOU. You write things like “I heartily agree that the west will suffer a bit of a setback this year.” which completely proves MY point. You also talk about my man-crush on LeBron. Okay. Other players I’ve had a ‘man-crush’ on are: Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Bill Russell… the list goes on. Most super NBA fans really like the players. I suggest you try it some time and become a real fan, not a hockey fan who sometimes watches.
Your posts prove that you’re a difficult, pathetic person who only sees in black and white. You can only look at stats and records to showcase your side. And, in basketball, the NBA, and most if not all sports, that NEVER tells the whole story.
kingsblade Said,
July 20, 2008 @ 6:31 pm
“Your simple, stupid logic makes Denver (50-32) better than Cleveland (45-37), Washington, Philadelphia and Atlanta.”
No it doesn’t. I love how you call me stupid even though the basic concepts I am discussing seem to be beyond you.
1.) The stats I discussed all have to do with each conference AS A WHOLE playing against the opposing conference AS A WHOLE. At no point in that post did I ever mention the season records of individual teams. I NEVER EVEN CAME CLOSE TO DOING SO. You seem to be trying to reinvent my argument to fit your needs.
Byt he way, pointing out individual victories is even more simplistic than what you are accusing me of doing, so I do not know exactly what your point is, other than even weak NBA teams can step up for a big game…a fact I’m pretty much sure we all knew already.
2.) Yes teams get better by adding better players, but except for Brand all of the additions you mentioned have giant question marks. You cannot call them improved until they actually do something.
3.) Agreeing that the west might not be quite as dominant as last year is not at all the same as agreeing that the east will be as good. Therefore it does not at all prove your point. Come back out of that fantasy world where LeBron loves you back.
4.) There is a reason people use stats to make arguments - they are a tangible piece of evidence. Your argument is based on the fact that you want desperately to bear LeBron’s children, and a few moves made by eastern teams that are by no means certain to work out. I have repeatedly responded to your “the stats never tell it all” comments, but all you ever do is repeat that they never tell the story again and again. Try addressing my actual reasoning for a change.
5.) I hate to be the one to have to tell you this, but you cannot make a logical observation of something that hasn’t happened yet. Not in this universe anyways. In other words any position you take as to how much certain teams WILL improve is by definition a prediction. Observations are things that have happened or are currently happening.
Again, calling me a hockey fan who watches sometimes is simply sad. You have no clue as to what my basketball resume includes, and to generalize like that is pathetic, ignorant, infantile, and beneath most significantly developed adult minds.
I love how you never bother adressing any point I make, you just keep coming back with - “you love hockey, you love stats, you’re oversimplifying, you’re an idiot.” You are always so full of well reasoned positions it is overwhelming.
You can go on as long as you like about how stats do not tell the story but you cannot simply ignore them either, because even though they don’t tell the whole story they still tell a big part of it.
I have a pretty important trial in a couple days and I hope to god that opposing counsel argues like you do. It’ll be thrown out in no time and I can go home to play with my kids.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 21, 2008 @ 11:13 am
Oh… You’re a trial lawyer. Wow. I feel bad for your clients. You write like an eight year old that learns a new word every week. And, thanks for letting all the readers know you’re a lawyer. Now we all know you’re just a plain liar - that you lie for a living. Well done.
YOU were the one to bring up head-to-head match-ups and the stats that followed those match-ups. But, you forgot the Wins that the East had over the West. Oh… I guess that slipped the lawyers mind. That’s a first.
As a response to your 4) post - “There is a reason people use stats to make arguments - they are a tangible piece of evidence” So, you obviously think that LeBron is the best player in the world, right? You have to. He has the best stats out of any player in the league. So, please admit it. I want to have his kids. But, you now have to admit that he’s the best. Thanks for that set up, counselor.
Ahh… it’s so funny that I can come on here and simply demolish a career lawyer in an argument. And, it’s pretty one sided, too. You know how they say “Don’t quit your day job?” Well… if I were you, I’d think long and hard about it. Do you ever win a case? Or are you O-fer? I can’t believe you would even write that you’re a lawyer on here. I thought I was arguing with a garbage man. No offense to garbage men. I actually had more respect for you then…
Kingsblade Said,
July 21, 2008 @ 1:14 pm
I don’t even know where you get your delusions from, but they sound like they are wonderful.
Here is a sample of your argumentation.
I just explained that while stats do not tell the whole story they tell an important part of it. You somehow took it to follow that I think the player with the best stats must be the best player. How do you make the leap from “important part of the story” to “the whole story”?
Furthermore I have never once on this site said who I think the best player is, so I have no idea why you would think it such a victory if I were to now say I thought it was LeBron.
You are difficult to argue with primarily because you do not follow any legitimate form of reasoning.
Here is another gem. I mentioned the overall performance of the western teams against the east, so you decided it follows that specific games would refute that premise? How so? It simply does not follow. What you just said is akin to claiming a guy who shoots 20% from the three point line is a great shooter because if I dispute that I am ignoring the shots he actually made.
If you like I can provide a formal breakdown that shows how many of your arguments simply do not conform to reason or come close to logical validity, but I am fairly certain it would simply go over your head and you would declare it ’stupid’ because LeBron James is such a great player, or some other statement that makes about the same amount of sense.
It’s funny how you were near tears at a throwaway comment about your home life and then go on to dedicate half a post to pretty much the same thing. You can go on all you like though because it won’t bother me. I’ve heard much worse than your capable of, and I probably make more in a month than you do in a year. Why would your opinion bother me in the least?
Keep up the petty infantile insults though, they really make you look smart.
Kingsblade Said,
July 21, 2008 @ 1:16 pm
By the way…what does being a liar have to do with argument? If I chose I could admit to being a liar all day long and it would have no effect on the validity of my arguments. There is no correlation at all.
Keep up the good work.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 21, 2008 @ 3:16 pm
Are you kidding? Are you saying that lying has nothing to do with validity of opinion? Um… Duh… Ah… Just when people’s opinions of lawyers couldn’t get any worse… Along comes kingsblade.
Kingsblade Said,
July 21, 2008 @ 4:49 pm
Did I say opinion? No.
I said argument. They are not the same, and if you do not know the difference then you are worse off then I thought.
An arguments validity is determined by the derivation of a conclusion from the premises. A persons relative honesty has nothing to do with it. It may affect the believability of the premises, but it cannot affect the argument.
But now that you mention it, a persons relative honesty has little to do with their opinions either. Say you are a liar….what would that have to do with the validity of your belief that LeBron James can walk on water? Absolutely nothing. Opinions might be ridiculous, but they are, by definition, valid.
You are brushing both personal opinion and logical deduction with an inapplicable morality.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 21, 2008 @ 5:42 pm
Digging yourself even deeper, kingsblade. Man - I feel sorry for your kids.
“Daddy! Can I have some ice cream?”
“No, son. You should have said ‘may I have some ice cream’, therefore you will not get any and now you must go to your room and write a paper on the differences between ‘may’ and ‘can’, and proper tense and verb usage.”
Fast forward fifteen years later…
“Daddy… You messed me up BIG TIME.”
David Said,
July 21, 2008 @ 9:03 pm
Actually I just got off the phone with my wife and am thinking about hiring Kingsblade.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 21, 2008 @ 9:53 pm
Good. Then he’ll be your problem.
David Said,
July 21, 2008 @ 10:08 pm
The way you two talk is the same way we talk…never getting anywhere. Looking at the same thing and seeing it completely different. Frustrating, huh?
kingsblade Said,
July 21, 2008 @ 10:19 pm
This is not a may-can type of situation. The words in question have no relation as close as the words ‘may’ and ‘can’ have to each other.
An argument is a set of premises that lead to a conclusion.
An opinion is essentially a belief/idea held by a person towards a given subject.
The two tems are not close, however neither one requires honesty to be valid.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 21, 2008 @ 11:16 pm
The conclusion I’ve come to is that you’re an idiot. And, I think you should give your kids up for adoption. There’s no way they like hearing this nonsense all day from you.
kingsblade Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 12:34 am
Well played. I thought it was impossible, but it makes you seem even classier when you insult me as a father.
Your clever repartee is astonishing.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 11:02 am
I wouldn’t have known that unless YOU brought it up… in a basketball blog. Some free advice - don’t write about your kids when you should be writing about East v. West. Because when YOU change the subject from basketball to methods of arguments or something non-basketball related topic, it will come back to bite you in the behind.
I thought you’d know these unwritten rules of argument… being a lawyer and all.
kingsblade Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 11:26 am
soooo….let me see if I understand your “unwritten” rule of argument.
If you believe that I have changed topic then it becomes a reasonable argument to take a mention of the fact that I have kids, made weeks ago in an entirely different thread mind you, and claim that I am a bad father? How is that even part of the argument? Even an “unwritten” rule is meant to apply to the actual argument. Claiming that what you said is part of an argument is like claiming a touchdown is part of a basketball game. Just because a rule is “unwritten,” as you say, it does not follow that it does not have to be applicable.
Your grip on logic is tenuous at best.
By the way, every point I have made was in direct response to something you said, so the varying topical content is your doing…you cannot claim that I am not allowed to respond to your pathetic slights…or do you really believe insulting people is a legitimate part of the east-west argument?
kingsblade Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 11:29 am
You are still a class act though. Please…I beg you…enlighten us with more of your trailer park wisdom.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 4:33 pm
Every time you feel the need to write two posts to my one. Inferiority complex? Hmm? Can you not finish your thoughts properly? Too angry and embarrassed? You should get that checked out. Maybe see a therapist. I heard that’s what David does.
kingsblade Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 10:05 pm
I have the ego of Ghengis Khan, so I doubt it’s an inferiority complex, but I probably should get that checked out it’s true.
Tell you what…I’ll stop double posting when you manage to get through an entire conversation without resorting to insults and name calling. There is a reason it is known as the last resort of the fool.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 10:27 pm
Large ego directly relates to an inferiority complex. Have you ever heard of narcissism? And, this isn’t name calling. It’s truth telling.
kingsblade Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 10:55 pm
That isn’t precisely correct, but you got upset last time I corrected your terminology so I’ll leave it mostly alone this time.
Suffice it to say you seem to be confusing narcissism with an Adlerian form of Napoleon complex. I won’t hold it against you though since many people make the same mistake as it’s a common misconception.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 22, 2008 @ 11:17 pm
I’m saying you have an inferiority complex (the double posting) AND you are showing signs of unhealthy narcissism (”I have the ego of Ghengis Khan…”). There’s no confusion. But, leave it to the lawyer to create confusion.
I thought that was pretty clear. Maybe your oversized/out-of-hand ego got in the way of the actual written words and punctuation (the period in between sentences).
kingsblade Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 1:44 am
It’s ok to admit that you fell prey to a common misperception. Nobody will hold it against you, and I promise not to tell LeBron. Backtracking now only makes you look worse.
David Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 10:10 am
MB Who said I was seeing a therapist?
Michael Bennett Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 11:11 am
I said that you ARE the therapist that kingsblade needs to see… very badly and as soon as possible.
David Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 11:23 am
Your statement can be read both ways. I wish I was a therapist — I would be making a lot more than I do and not have my wife force me to be a stay-at-home dad (which I wouldn’t mind — just can’t afford it).
I know this has nothing to do with basketball, but frankly the last 4 dozen posts have had NOTHING to do with hoops anyway.
Michael Bennett Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 11:49 am
I think Eddie’s at home laughing at this argument… seeing how long he can go without writing a new blog.
Eddie - How about a Childress to Greece article? You can shed some light on good American shooter playing overseas. The twist is that Childress is doing it in his youth. You moved in your 30s and returned, correct?
I wonder how kingsblade is going to twist this post into some dirty lawyer trick.
David Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 12:05 pm
Eddie (and probably everyone else) stopped reading this a week ago
Michael Bennett Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 12:19 pm
I did too.
kingsblade Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 2:46 pm
Anyone still reading any of this would have to be crazy at this point.
David Said,
July 23, 2008 @ 3:00 pm
either doing research on the lost art of the never ending argument, or just plain bored.
Ovais Said,
August 17, 2008 @ 10:52 pm
the latter