Why the Celtics won
Hunger and home grown toughness
The Celtics are probably the only team in the NBA with not one foreign import on their roster. OK, what does that mean? Well, in this instance, especially judging by how the Celtics just manhandled the Lakers, I would say hunger, pride and toughness. This Celtic team had three stars and one former player as coach that had success as individuals, but never had accomplished the team success to validate great careers. They hungered for it and it showed with how they stayed focused, fought through injuries during this series and played as a complete unit. They showed pride and respect for the history of a franchise that had not won a title since 1986 after winning 16 before. They capped it off with a toughness defensively I have not seen since Detroit won back-to-back titles led by Isiah Thomas.
The Lakers are littered with players from all over the world. And yes, they deserved to be in the Finals. But they also on paper deserved to be smacked around. I said before the series that they were a soft unit and they did not disappoint. These Celtics grew up playing and loving this NBA game. They saw it every day and they knew as youngsters the history and emotion of a championship. This is a learning process for the young talented Lakers and their mixture of foreign born players. I played in Greece and I had no idea how important it was to beat Turkey until I lost a game and had rocks thrown at my house. I fought the passion and hatred for other teams we competed against until I started to realize that this was their history. This is the problem facing the foreign players. I bet Gasol, Radmanovic and Vujacic had no idea of the history of Celtics-Lakers. They do now, but it’s too late because they got on a plane, flew across the country and refused to fight in the biggest game of their lives to date.
Defense was stifling
I never imagined saying Paul Pierce and Ray Allen were very good defenders, but I reserve the right to change my mind. They were unreal. I always respected both of them, but now it has risen to another level. The Celtics are the best defensive team I have ever seen in this league. They were on a string the whole year defensively and that is why the Celtics are the champions. I have never seen a team dismantle the triangle offense like they did in this series. Kobe could not even get to the rim in Game 6. He might not ever admit it, but the Celtics made him second guess and hesitate every time he touched the ball in this series. Yes, he needed some help, but before the series if I remember correctly everyone was raving about how good the Lakers’ offense was. Truth is, in essence the Lakers had no offensive closers to help Kobe. When the going got tough in the later quarters players like Gasol or Odom disappeared when Kobe needed them most.
Bench play
I also heard the Lakers’ bench was the best in the league. I disputed that call as well in my preview article. I looked at Boston’s bench with guys like Sam Cassell, Eddie House, James Posey and PJ Brown and said… Are you kidding me? These guys are not only tough minded but closers. They did not fail because all of them made big plays late in games when the Celtics needed them the most. Meanwhile, the Lakers’ bench played scared and intimidated with the exception of Vujacic for a few games. Luke Walton gave the Lakers no production and it got to the point where Phil Jackson played Chris Mihm in Game 5. Mihm had not played in months.
66 wins
Boston won from start to finish for a reason. They won the Texas Triangle, which is unheard of. They beat the Lakers twice during the regular season, but yet people picked the Lakers. Go figure!
Ray Allen
He was ripped during the early series, but people failed to realize he was playing third wheel after being first, second and third option for so many years. He hit a speed bump and people ripped him. All due respect to Paul Pierce, who I truly love, but Ray Allen was MVP of this series for one simple fact… If he had not averaged 20-plus points in this series and shoot the three like mad, the Celtics would not be celebrating today.
Unsung heroes: James Posey and Eddie House were huge. Posey has proven to be one of the best multi-purpose role players in the league and House continues to be beat down by coaches shutting down his role and minutes, but yet continues to keep himself prepared when his name is called. House will carve out a 15-year career in this league just based on his professionalism and ability to make buckets.
Doc Rivers stayed calm and on purpose all year. He carried no ego when it came to coaching and his relationship with his players. Hence it was not surprising to see one of the Big Three grab the clipboard and point out something to the team. And it was normal for assistant coach Tom Thibodeau to be up standing next to Rivers barking out directions. I guarantee you will never see that happen with old-school coaches. Rivers did not outcoach Phil Jackson. He just coached his team better and now he has a championship because of it.
Prediction for next year
Boston Celtics:
- The Celtics need a backup center and a third point guard with size, which would allow Eddie House to play consistent minutes. I expect PJ Brown to return, but not Cassell.
- They will be challenged by Cleveland, Detroit, Orlando and Washington.
- They will be back in the Finals for a chance at two straight.
Los Angeles Lakers:
- They need a pure small forward, so I look for Odom to be used as bait because Gasol is a better power forward with Andrew Bynum returning.
- Phil Jackson historically only likes catch-and-shoot players in that triangle offense, so I expect them to try and upgrade the bench with shooters.
- They will be challenged mainly by San Antonio, New Oleans and Phoenix.
- They will not get back to the Finals because I think the West is too competitive and dominance will not happen.
Nicholas Todd (Australia) Said,
June 18, 2008 @ 10:45 pm
eddie your so pretentious. referring back to old articles as if to validate yourself & be a hard ass. loser. congrats on getting phoenix coaching job. oops thats right u never stood a chance ha ha ha
eddie Said,
June 18, 2008 @ 10:58 pm
I am accepting apologies from all those Laker Fans that killed me when i said Boston in 6. LOL
Jax Said,
June 18, 2008 @ 11:02 pm
to my mind, the Lakers lost because Kobe played scared! there were moments in this series when they needed buckets and yet he opted to pass to Gasol inside, i thought that he really played scared this series.
Congratulations to the Celtics!
p.s. i agree, the MVP of the series was supposed to be Ray Allen, but selecting Pierce over Allen won’t make it a wrong choice either.
George J Said,
June 18, 2008 @ 11:17 pm
Eddie, I apologize. You were right. I was wrong. You were also right about KG. I have finally seen the light about him. Please keep writing and I, for one, will keep reading. Thank you.
La Rhon Said,
June 18, 2008 @ 11:17 pm
As a Laker Fan and a Fan of the NBA, I thank you Eddie for writing this article it hits the nail on the head. Foreign born players are not only SOFT but they are also part of the blame why officiating is out of whack. How many times do we associate floppers with Euro Ballers (Manu, Vlade, Verajao, Niwotzki, etc.)? During the regular season these guys look awesome but come playoff time it is a known fact that they melt (Radmonovic, Gasol, Manu, Parker, Nowitzki, Peja). When the game gets physical they fold and hit the deck on first contact causing the offical to blow the whistle all game long.
There is only one person to blame for this and that is David Stern. He is greedy, inconsiderate and terrible when it comes to how to expand the game. He ruined the purity of the game by assuming that Americans not having the ability to hit the mid-range jumper. He went out of his way to change the defensive philosophy of the nba to include a partial zone to increase scoring? That didn’t work and it has also killed the game. What are Euro Ballers good for? Set shots which would be in abundance if teams were not allowed to run a box in 1 on star players with lesser talent (i.e. Kobe and the Lakers). Everyone remembers how great it was to see Michael Jordan drive to the basket and kick it out Craig Hodges, John Paxon or Steve Kerr who all made careers from being able to get a good look at the basket at the hands of the best player getting them involved. Now teams can hide defensive weakness by playing a man and an area when it used to be everyone for themselves and dare to double-team. I know we cannot kick the Euro Ballers out of the league but I highly suggest we revist the zone like defense being played today.
And memo to General Managers, Please do not draft a Euro Baller and lie to your fans how great he is because its a bold face lie ask Milwaukee and Toronto they know first hand! Like Eddie says American ballers grew up with this game and instilled in them is a different type of fire and desire. I say we should hold a separate Euro Draft so that more American Ballers have a chance at playing their game in their country!
If you have read this and you are a Euro Baller or European no disrespect to you its all factual! How many Euro Ballers have one a title and where the team captin? The closest you will get is San Antonio Spurs and hell I might have to question those victories in light of all of the referee scandals and David Sterns attempts to convince everyone that the NBA had an Image problem that was supposedly killin the game? Go figure African American basketball players were more of a threat than a white official betting on th game and other white officials tanking games? Image is everything, David Stern isn’t!
Bynum Said,
June 18, 2008 @ 11:19 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9efsJwJxYEk
Two wins away despite not having that in the lineup…this team is poised to be in the finals for years…
MAXIMUST Said,
June 18, 2008 @ 11:26 pm
Yessssss Eddie!
Pierce is the most craftiest player in the league…basic basketball…one hand dunk, two hand dunk, left layup, right layup, mid-range jumper, 3-points…but is secret weapon is the way is using is dribbling skills to split up the defense…kobe is not afraid but prefer to avoid contact..Pierce use is body all the time…but I think the big difference in the series came from the vet…guy<s like Posey HUGE!!!! and PJ Brown!!! Lakers didnt have the depth and experience to compete against those guy’s….
Jeff Said,
June 18, 2008 @ 11:45 pm
Is Keving Garnett Kidding Me When He Screamed At The Top Of His Lungs “Anythings Possssiiibbllleee”!?…Yeah Of Course Anythings Possible When You Have 3 AllStars On Your Team…I Can Not Respect This Chapionship For That Simple Fact…
P.S. - I Am Not a Lakers Fan Or Celtics Fan…
The Truth Said,
June 18, 2008 @ 11:59 pm
Eddie, your analysis this series has been pretty good, I must admit. But, with the addition of Andrew Bynum and trading Odom for a better SF fit on the Lakers squad is going to make them by far the favorites next year. You have SA as another top team in the West. DId you watch the WCF? The Lakers beat them in 5 WITHOUT Bynum. Lakers will run the league for the next 3-4 years and build another dynasty until the BLAZERS are ready to give them a run. Boston is a one and done champion. Props to them this year, they earned it, but to say that they’ll beat the Lakers or even get close next year is foolish and speaks volumes of your knowledge.
Luke Walton Celebrity Gossip | Why the Celtics won Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 12:02 am
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KR Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 12:51 am
The lakers need back Shaquille O Neal!!!
dyeyk Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 12:59 am
manu was playing hurt in the SA-LAL series. if he was healthy, i doubt the outcome would have been the same. not saying the spurs would have won it, but they would have definitely made it harder for the lakers.
weezy from the 602 Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 1:06 am
Eddie, did you interview for the Suns Asst. job yet?
weezy from the 602 Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 1:07 am
Also, have you heard any other info about the Suns trading barbosa and diaw for another 1st rounder?
BTW Good article and good call on Celtics in 6
I had the Celtics in 7
Jeff Moss Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 1:36 am
Eddie, your comments and insights are right on the money, keep up the good work. I also had Boston in 6 and could not understand how so many people picked LA. Boston dominated them in the regular season and I know that it was the regular season, but l looked at how they defensed Kobe back then and I knew that the other Lakers players could not step up and play consistently good ball to help Kobe out when Boston D’ED HIM UP. That is the best combination of individual and team defense that I have seen against Kobe.
maniLA ice Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 1:54 am
Eddie, your prediction was dead on. When I read your Finals preview, I knew the Lakers were in trouble because of all the things you pointed out. You said the X factor in the Finals is gonna be James Posey and you nailed that one like a 3-pointer from the corner. Posey’s championship experience with the Heat and his ability to make big shots swung the bench advantage towards the Celtics. Nice work EJ.
Zane Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 2:26 am
I called Celtics in 6 too Eddie, and got slammed. bring the apologies Laker fans!
I’m not sure they need to trade Odom though, as Lakers have some terrific chemistry between their big 3 of Kobe, Odom and Gasol. Having Bynum back next year should have them back in the thick of the race if they can work him in, chemistry wise. Otherwise if they are dropping games with Bynum, maybe it is time to trade Odom for a more pure small forward.
Either way, Lakers will be even more dangerous next year. I’m picking a re-match next years finals….
CONGRATULATIONS BOSTON!!!
Kingsblade Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 2:39 am
“…but to say that they’ll beat the Lakers or even get close next year is foolish and speaks volumes of your knowledge.”
lol…this statement speaks volumes of your affinity for hyperbole.
Heaven forbid anyone suggest that the defending champions might be “even close” to being a contender.
Come on people. Bynum made some strides this year, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. First he has to demonstrate that he has recovered from his injury. Then he needs to prove that he can keep improving. To suddenly claim that they are sure champions because a guy who has never proven anything at all at the nba level is coming back from a season ending injury is laughable at best.
Might he be the difference? Sure. Is it a guarantee? “Not even close.”
Trade Odom for a more fitting small forward? Who did you have in mind that they could actually get for him?
The SPurs are going to get much younger next year I assume, and by the WCF Ginobili was playing hurt. (enough that it looks like he is missing the olympics too) I would not go so far as to write them off. I expect New Orleans to get better. I expect Utah to get better. LA should be good, but they are no sure thing. New Orleans is a very tough matchup for them, so they better hope to miss them in the Playoffs I think.
Masood Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 3:01 am
Boston a one and done champ? That’s the most uninsightful observation I’ve heard in a while. This is not the ‘06 Heat. This is a team that won 66 games in a dominating start to finish fashion not seen since the ‘98 Bulls. For a newly assembled team, that is unheard of. The core of that Bulls team (MJ, Pippen, Phil) had been together for over a decade, while these guys were learning how to win on the fly. Sure, they stumbled out the gate against an underrated and overlooked Hawks squad, but they learned from it, refocused, and went on to dismantle the second best team in the East in Detroit, and everyone’s favorite, the Lakers. There is no shame in going 7 against a LeBron James team either.
The fact that their star is the defensive player of the year, and that his defense-first mentality has had a trickle down effect throughout the lineup is enough to keep the Celtics relevant for the foreseeable future. Sure, it’s a veteran laden team, but by no means are they old. Perrenial contenders San Antonio and Phoenix will get old way before the Celtics will, and up and comers like New Orleans, Utah, Portland, and Cleveland are probably still 2-3 years away from serious contention. The Big 3 is still only an average of 31 years old, and with the athletic Rondo (who outplayed the league’s MVP in the deciding game) and bruising Perkins in line to improve drastically in the years to come, the C’s have the makings of another mini-dynasty in Beantown.
XeRoX Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 3:36 am
The NEED to pick up a great base, Calderon is the man. He is the best restricted free agency on the market. Fisher should be a solid bench player (He’s old).
This could be…
- Calderon
- Kobe
- Odom
- Gasol
- Bynum
does he truly love me Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 3:39 am
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Jacob Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 4:12 am
i love how laker fans still blame kobe, even tho he was the only person who didn’t have a bad game all series, funny how things work when your the only star on your team.
eddie you might make alot of euroscrubs mad with the start of your blog, but i agree it might be that the trophy means more to american athletes who grew up wanting it.
and thanks for picking the celts to be back, i think they will too (prob my fanhood) but i dont see pj coming back. i mean he got his prize, we will bring in the next attractive veteran pf (cwebb? lol just messing)
Jacob Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 4:16 am
“Boston is a one and done champion. Props to them this year, they earned it, but to say that they’ll beat the Lakers or even get close next year is foolish and speaks volumes of your knowledge.”
funny when people make comments like this they have no evidence or reason behind it, they just boldly make these statements…
let me ask you this, is boston going to suddenly not be a defensive team? We will have the exact starting 5 back, rondo and perk will get better as they have every year of their careers. And i expect danny to bring in some new wily vets who are hungry. To say they wont even be close is speaking on YOUR FOOLISHNESS and it speaks volumes about YOU.
until the lakers learn to play defense, they wont win either… so you all can say “man shaq was right”
and the lakers had GREAT chem right? lol bunch of whining babies, i wont be surprized if kobe demands a trade this offseason
Jacob is G@y Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 5:02 am
Posey will sign with lakers. and lakers will waive or trade a few players and that includes odom as a center piece. lakers bench was good but too young and no experience. kobe needs more than that to compete against celtics
frank Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 6:58 am
eddie
don’t wholeheartedly agree with your euro bashing in the intro. in fact, it’s pretty preposterous. duncan didn’t play organized ball until 9th grade and olajuwon didn’t play ball until he was 17, but somehow their lack of hunger and that so called lack of desire to win the nba championship that comes with being born in a foreign country, helped those two rack up 6 championships between them. and how can you really say that after the spurs have won with a bunch of foreign born players… manu and parker come to mind. if you’re a pro in th nba, you are paid to win and you’re mentality should be focused solely on the championship.
the reason the celtics won is because they were the better team, more importantly, the better defensive team. and we all know defense wins championships.
another big reason… gasol and odom are not as good as they are on paper. they’re both soft and don’t show up for crunch time. and if they do show up for a game, it’s only for one half(ie odom in game 4).
i do agree with you eddie that one or the other gets traded. butafter they’re demise in this past series, what value could the lakers really get for either.
frank Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 7:14 am
and whose gonna challenge boston next year?
joe d is totally dismantling the pistons.
lebron is still waiting for help.
orlando, atlanta and philly are still a couple years away from really challenging.
miami is rebuilding.
and everyone else is irrelevant.
boston goes to the finals again next year, unless joe d pulls a danny ainge this off season, or an elton brand or gilbert arenas joins lebron, or d wade and the 2nd pick can catapult miami out of the cellar. the nba saga continues. i love this game.
ieatshit Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 7:18 am
hahahaha go celtics
get antoine walker and tony battie
jk!
C Fatz Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 7:52 am
Why the Celtics won by C Fatz. Volume One:
Celtics 3 stars; Lakers 1 star…you do the math.
C Fatz Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 7:54 am
Why the Celtics won by C Fatz. Volume Two:
Kevin McHale reveals he is still working for the Celtics and sends KG to Boston for a song and a dance (no disrespect intended to Al Jefferson and Ryan Gomes a 6-4 Power Forward generously listed at 6′-7)
Finals MVP first name Kevin, but his last name isn’t Garnett.
Hersey Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 7:57 am
Frank, using Timmy D and Hakeem as counters to Eddie arguments about the Lakers Euro players not matching the desire of the Celtics is kinda weak. Hakeem played college ball in Houston and was drafted by Houston. Timmy D grew up in the Virgin Islands and played four years at Wake Forest during the height of ACC basketball. They’re American players who learned to play ball in America in very competitive circumstances. Gasol may bring it during the World Championships but he was soft during the Finals, a strong indication he wasn’t aware of the circumstances. Radmonovic is guilty of the same thing. Even Laker fans call him a space cadet.
The Celtics were pretty impressive this season and Game 6 was the exclamation point. I find it funny everyone is so ready to anoint the Lakers the next dynasty. Bynum played well for half a season before a knee injury and when he returns he’s the missing link to a title? That’s a big stretch. It took Amare two years to fully recover from his knee surgeries and he couldn’t get a WCF team any further when he returned.
In the West, veteran clubs will retool with youth and the emerging clubs will get better with experience. Kobe was great this year but he couldn’t unleash the Mamba on a superior Celtic team. Teams have tape and I’m willing to bet we’ll see some new schemes in the West next year. Simply losing in the Finals and getting Bynum back won’t make the Lakers better next year. They need to make some personnel adjustments, develop better chemistry and pray for good health like everyone else.
Ignore the haters Eddie. The analysis on here and on TV is on point. Hope you get a position with Terry Porter’s new staff.
C Fatz Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 8:06 am
Why the Celtics won by C Fatz. Volume Three:
Doc Rivers now officially owns Phil Jackson. It may or may not be permanent, but it’s time for him to write a book about his own mind games just as Phil did not many years ago.
To quote Maximust from above Paul Pierce is the…craftiest player in the league Maximust mentioned that Pierce’s secret weapon is his use of dribbling on that detail we diverge, I insist that secret weapon is his use of the wheelchair - MIND GAMES! And Don’t think for a minute that it was Paul’s Idea; this ruse came from the coach!
Rajon Rondo was too injured to play but played, this is a Doc Rivers move.
Kendrick Perkins was to start game five, but didn’t play another head game by Glenn (Doc)
Then skillfully employing the media to play up the illness of Ray Allen’s son - as if that was going to have ANYthing to do with Ray playing in games five and six. Glenn has passed into the territory of Freudian proportions with his mind games with that singular stroke.
Then he comes to Kobe’s defense in Sunday’s papers. A benevolent opponent? what is that? He’s hitting from all angles now.
Let’s face it. While Phil Jackson was reduced to whining about the officiating in Boston, Doc was re-writing the book on creating the competitive edge between the games. This used to be the zenmaster’s strength. This time though it’s his waterloo.
C Fatz Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 8:15 am
Why the Celtics won, by C Fatz. Volume Four:
First let me thank Eddie for providing a medium and an audience to my vast b-ball wisdom. Eddie if you are appointed to a post in Phoenix, perhaps I should take over your column.
Now back to our theme.
How many times has Roone Arledge repeated - “since the league went to the 2-3-2 format for the finals no home team has won the middle 3 games…ever”. Let us not forget the Home court advantage and the 2-3-2 format which actually creates a homecourt disadvantage for the team with the middle three games at home. This means that winning 66 games and having the best w-l record was truly a factor in the outcome of the finals.
And lest we forget, besides the homecourt advantage in its per se state this is a playoff game on Boston’s homecourt. HISTORICALLY it is next to impossible for the visiting team to get a fair shake in Boston in the playoffs. That’s not a complaint, not an accusation of conspiracy. That’s just the way the league worx. Always has, always will.
George J Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 8:43 am
Fatz,
that is not entirely true . Detroit won all three home ames when they beat the Lakers in 2004.
math Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 8:44 am
Eddy is such a Lakers hater ! I remenber when Kobe scores 81 and everybody debate on the true value of this performance, Eddy was saying : with today’s rules I would have score 28 ppg !!! just to talk shit about Kobe’s great scoring season !! Truly amazing for a guy who never be able to score !! So don’t be surprise if the same guy bet on Boston next year for a come back to the finals and not on LA
kb Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 9:01 am
it is funny to me how people talked about the lakers being so great with gasol, but we all saw that LA had issues even before playoff time! gasol was soft/ odom inconsistant and kobe’s selfishness, but still people picked the lakers. not to mention phil spoke about OFFENSE during every interview and not DEFENSE which was the weakest link of their team. next year i expect the lakers to START OFF HOT!!!! 15-2. why? gasol is going to be in the work out room. i expect him to be much bigger and stronger next year, BUT with him adding so much weight and mass in such a short time it will eventually land him on the IR and when the lakers need him most (playoff time) he will not be on the court cuz he will be injured or hampered by injury. so look for the lakers to end the season 53-29 (38-27 after the hot start) and lose to the jazz or rockets in the west finals. if you think i am crazy look at kobe when he came into the 05 season at 235 lbs of pure muscle and had knee problems that season… yao ming did the same thing this year putting on muscle and he too had foot and knee problems… how can we forget penny hardaway putting on 15 lbs of muscle in one off season that ultimatly destroy his career when his knee problems became cronic. Gasol will fall into the trap and it will hurt the lakers. the answer is not gasol gaining 15 to 20 lbs this off season but the lakers changing his role offensively. use him like cleveland uses ‘Z’. have him post up 30% and pick and pop 70%. then you go out and get and guy off the bench that WILL bang down low in the post and have gasol roam the paint for weak side help and boards. who is that guy you ask? antonio mcdyess!!! the lakers MUST SIGN HIM to have ANY chance at being the TEAM that has every peice in position… oh, one more thing- sign a veteran 2 gaurd with HIGH BBALL IQ to help Kobe learn leadership skills that will take him from superstar to LEGEND. superstars are great, but legends have that leadership that makes their teams better than what they really are… so who is that 2 gaurd to help kobe? EDDIE JONES!!! eddie has played with magic, won a title with shaq… and mentored kobe in LA- who better to help the phenom become a legend! if these things are done by LA… then and only then do i say championship; but if it is done i say MULTIPLE CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!
FRONT OFFICE JOB EDDIE… I AINT PLAYIN
azzman555@yahoo
António Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 9:27 am
Eddie you have nice ideas but… How can you say that Ray Allen deserved to be MVP?
Pierce averaged better numbers at every point of the game(Assists, Rebounds, Steals, POINTS), and he did BIG perfomances… Ray played very good but Pierce deserved to be MVP.
António Cantante, Portugal
Legs Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 9:29 am
Where were all you Celtics fans last year when the team sucked and they were in last place and the stands were empty… True fans would’ve shown up to support their team no matter what… Now your actually happy you won a championship? You had 3 all-stars on your team.. Of course you were gonna win it all… Its called, “Buying a Championship.” The Spurs have Tim Duncan (1 superstar), the Lakers had Shaq and Kobe (2 Superstars), the Heat had Sahq and Wade (2 superstars), the Pistons had no superstars, and the CELTICS HAD ALLEN, KG, and PIERCE (3 SUPERSTARS)!!!! And Garnett feels like anything is possible!!! of course its possible, when 3 superstars could take over a game at any given moment.. Sorry Celtics fans, this championship sucked… At least Bird, McHale, and Parrish were true Celtics… Unlike Allen and KG…
Kevin Garnett Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 9:42 am
Jeff, I have heard this same statement from a lot of NBA fans in the past few days. What I wanted all the fans to know is that I worked hard to win this championship. My teammates and I worked year round to reach our goal. As fans, it is hard to see the hardwork and patience it takes to compete at such a high level on a daily basis. We did have a good supporting staff, with Allen and Pierce, and all of our other role players who all played a big part in guiding us to this victory. However, it is a lot harder than it seems on television. At one point during the season, Ray, Paul, and I were averaging 20 points a game each. That takes a lot of focus and understanding of the game. I’m sure you have played competitive basketball and you were on a team who was way better than your opponent, but yet you still lost. Things like this happen all the time. Being the best team in the NBA comes with a lot of pressure, and we maintained and won. That is what i meant by “Anything is Possible.” Anything is possible, but to actually do it, is the best feeling in the world. Hopefully you’ll be a Celtics fan from now on and support this great team and great city.
Thanks, KG#5
Jacob Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 9:53 am
“Kevin McHale reveals he is still working for the Celtics and sends KG to Boston for a song and a dance (no disrespect intended to Al Jefferson and Ryan Gomes a 6-4 Power Forward generously listed at 6′-7)”
but u just did disrespect… you cant say no disrespect then rip someone, what the hell is that… al jefferson is a better player than odom and gasol. he will have a better career and much more gifted then they were when they were 22-23. I dont get how it was a steal that the celtics got kg, it wasn’t and minnesota fans feel that way.
if you wanna talk about robbery, how bout gasol trade, they got 2 back draft picks and kwame brown… KWAME BROWN! At least al jefferson was one of only 4-5 people to average 20-10.
Jacob Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 9:54 am
legs, the celtics still averaged 17k in attendance last year, im not sure ur aware of that but by talking i guess your not and please dont make title town sound like memphis with its attendance, there were plenty of fans in the crowd last year. its not like the celtics had to use any gimmicks like “by two games get one free”
Anonymous Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 10:19 am
Eddie,
Good post. However, I respectfully disagree on your point regarding ’soft’ foreigners. Gasol has had the pressure of representing his country several times, but was playing out of position as a center during the playoffs and also had a unique role. He thrives as a leader that gets everyone involved, but Kobe’s leadership style (Berate everyone!) limits him on that regard.
Radmanovic has always been a terrible defender (he’s soft in the regular season as well) and Vujacic is still a young, immature player, so the fact that they are foreigners isn’t what made them perform poorly.
If anything, the leadership of Kobe should be questioned. To a casual fan, he seems too aloof to actually relate to any of his teammates, hurting overall chemistry. The fact that he’s Kobe Bryant (the best player on the planet) compensates for those flaws most of the time, but not all of the time.
kb Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 10:32 am
you think just cuz you have talent and all stars on your team that you are gonna win… dog you are CRAZY. phoenix has nash-amare-shaq and LOST, before that, nash,amera, marion, JOE JOHNSON, and they lost TOO. to say the spurs have one superstar you are crazy. manu is not a scrub and would be a superstar on any other team- parker too. the NUGGETS… OH MY GOOD NESS- iiverson/melo/camby (defensive player of the year last year) former alstar kenyon martin. what about them. they have 4 allstars and 2 superstars!!! they shouldve won too right? right! well they shouldve but they couldn’t put it all together like the C’s did. that is why Rivers deserves so much credit.. he made the talent WORK TOGETHER! this goes to show you need more than talent to win champships… you need chemistry and the C’s brought it all together in less than a year.. WOW!!!
Front Office JOB EDDIE!!! connect me
azzman555@yahoo
Legs Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 10:38 am
Hey Jacob, I don’t want to hate on you, cuz you seem like a true Boston fan. The average attendance for the Celtics in the 2006-2007 season was 16,843 for a stadium that seats up to 18,624. This was the 11th worse home record in the NBA that year. When the Lakers had a losing season in 2005, they averaged 18,792 in a stadium that seats up to 18,997. So which city shows more support?
However, I will not call you a frontrunner, cuz you do seem like a die hard fan, but those other people in Boston, you know who i am talking about (the fake Red Sox fans, and the definitely the fake Patriots fans), they shouldn’t be allowed to celebrate the championship like you should be able to.
vicky Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 10:40 am
La Rhon: Manu melt ??? no way.-
kb Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 10:41 am
i also have to throw this in, the celtics wouldn’t have won all those championships without dennis johnson or parris… werent both of them TRADED TO THE CELTICS JUST LIKE KG AND ALLEN. you can make the aurgument that johnson wasn’t a true celtic- we was with the sonics first and parrish with golden state!!! i guess moses malone doesn’t deserve his ring with the 76ers and drexler doesn’t deserve his with the rockets. gary payton doesn’t deserve a ring with the heat either, he’s really a sonic… oh and kareem AND wilt are not really lakers- THEY WERE TRADED TOO. homey just admitted you are really trippin on the fact that these guys deserve to win cuz they worked together and worked hard!
whooooo- heating up for the front office EDDIE
adfsafdadsfasfdfweawer Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 10:46 am
yeah Eddie, the after the thought for Game 4, you also said that Boston is going to win Game 5. You made so many predictions, if you make a million predictions a few are bound to drop. Did you predict that Boston will go to game 7 against Atlanta or Cavs? uHH… I don’t think so…. why didn’t you mention about your missed prediction huh? if Lakers have bynum back, then lakers won’t get killed on the board like they were, simple as it is. Defensive and offensively it’d be insane to think about. Bynum is avging 13/10 in less than 30 min, you go figure. Lakers will be the team to beat for many years to come barring any major injuries to the star players. Sadly to say, I’d have to say that if San Antonio or New Orleans or even Utah were to play Boston in the finals, I think they’d do a better job than the lakers since those teams are way more physical than the lakers. Unfortunately, starting next year, you’ll see teams trying to adopt Boston method of abusing lakers physically. Lakers need to get strong physically, that’s the reason why Portland had a lot of success against lakers during the regular season.
Jacob Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 10:48 am
good post kb, and yes robert parrish was traded to us along with dj. if you look all over trades/free agents caused championships - detriot, la (shaq), miami, boston
the only team that didn’t trade or free agency signing was the spurs.
Legs Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 10:52 am
Hey Kb, In order for you to call someone a Superstar or an All-Star, they have to at least be an all-star this year… Amare and Nash were all-stars, Shaq and Marion weren’t (so that means Shaq and Marion are not superstars and not all-stars), Carmelo and Iverson were all-stars, Camby plays D and get rebounds and k-Mart hasn’t been an all-star in years (so that means Camby and K-Mart are not all-stars or superstars), Duncan is an all-star, Ginobli and Parker didn’t make the all-star team (so that means Ginobli and Parker are not all-stars or superstars) and don’t say if they were another team they would be all-stars, cuz the Pistons run the same system and they had 3 all-stars this year… So there you have it, Suns had 2 superstars, Nuggets had 2 superstars, and the Spurs have 1.. Boston Celtics had 3 Superstars… And if you want to bring up the past like you when you mentioned Shaq or K-Mart, then I could throw out names like P.J. Brown and Sam Cassell, who at one point in there career were all-stars… So there, the Celtics had 5 superstars, according to your way of thinking… Good championship… Way to buy one.. Tell Garnett to keep on screaming, “Anything Is Possible”!!! He was right, anything is possible, when money is involved….
kb Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 10:52 am
jacob
in the regular season gasol’s trade was like WHAT!!! for kwame are you serious… but in the finals, Kwame would’ve been better suited for the lakers than gasol… so really the lakers got exactly what memphis got… NOTHING! it was an even trade after all. you know what- if kwame goes to the right team with the right coach and mentor the lakers might regret trading him!!!
maker of fact i am going out on a limb here- if kwame gets snatched up by spurs/ suns/ boston look for him to be a solid NBA power foward/ ‘PJ Brown in his prime’ 15pts 9 reb 2 blks a game
Front office gig is coming
azzman555@yahoo
kb Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 10:55 am
thanks jacob
you the man… work on eddie to get me that front office gig for me
i love friendly/honest debates
Azzman555@yahoo
Legs Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:03 am
This is a great debate guys… but its a 2 on 1… get me a front office job too…lol…
Hersey Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:05 am
Legs- How did the Celtics buy a championship by making smart player acquisitions? That’s the silliest thing I’ve ever heard. They are under the same salary cap and luxury tax rules as every other team. Other teams (San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix, New Orleans, Detroit) had multiple All Stars on their roster and didn’t win the title. The point is to accumulate talent and win- which the Celtics did. Even Lebron James said their defense was one the best EVER.
kb- Eddie Jones never won a title with Shaq. He did mentor Kobe before and was traded to give Kobe more playing time. In Miami, He was traded to Memphis before the 05-06 season when the Heat won the title. Doubt he’s leaving Dallas. I can see your point though. Lakers need some tough veterans.
Michael Bennett Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:06 am
Wow! It’s funny to see all the experts come out AFTER the Finals. Here’s the truth:
Kobe is to blame.
The Lakers were a good team before Gasol. When they got Gasol, they were the best team in the West (obviously). How can you blame Gasol for being soft? He’s, first of all, not ’soft’. He’s just not the physical player that Kevin Garnett is. Gasol is a fantastic player who deserves A LOT of credit for the Lakers run this year.
Odom didn’t disappear, either. He played solid… when he was on the floor. The reason his numbers didn’t reflect his talent is because of foul trouble. It’s tough to guard KG and a lane barreling Paul Pierce on every other play.
I love how people think that the Celtic’s defense only applies to Kobe. “Well, that’s why he played so poorly. They were great defenders.” Yes. That’s true. The Celtics defense is amazing. But, the Celtics defense also played against Gasol and Odom. Yes, G and O didn’t play as well as they did in the regular season or the rest of the Playoffs, but the difference was minimal compared to how Kobe played.
Kobe choked. It’s that simple. Like one of my basketball friends said, Kobe is one of the worst Finals “superstars” performers. Look at 2004. Look at 2008 for examples.
For two games in a row, Kobe started off shooting threes in the opening quarter. For those who think that his teammates failed him, I say he failed his team. How can you do that to your team in the elimination game?!? Instead of getting everyone involved, everyone loose, everyone part of the triangle, Kobe’s jacking up threes. Stupid basketball.
Kobe’s to blame. He’s the supposed leader of that team. He underperformed. It’s that simple. The Lakers lost because Kobe underperformed. He never had a superstar/breakout game in the Finals.
On the flip side, I obviously give credit to the mighty Cs. Kevin Garnett is one of my favorite players, and his impact shows now. I think this Celtics team automatically ranks up there with some of the best teams ever. KG was so good in game 6 on both offense and defense. He was the Finals MVP in my mind. Eddie said that the Celtics couldn’t have won it without Ray Allen’s shooting. I somewhat agree. I don’t think they could have one it without the play of any of the Big 3 (sorry, KG, I don’t have a better nickname), but I think Garnett’s impact is greater than any other individual. He set the tone on defense. It was the defense that separated them from every other team. He’s gotta be considered one of the best PFs of all time now (he was before, this clinched it). Man… he’s inspiring.
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:08 am
frank
the difference between Duncan and Hakeem is that they played college ball in the USA.
Guys understand i am not bashing foreign players. i gave you the analogy of what i went through in Greece as a player that had already played 13 years in the NBA.I did not appreciate and understand what winning against certain teams meant.
what i am saying is that it takes longer for them to figure it out and the hunger does not match American born players.
Tony Parker lived in both countries his dad grew up and played here.
Manu is the poster boy for figuring it out quickly
frank Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:13 am
Eddie,
How can you say that that the reason that the Lakers lost is because they are playing too many foreign players? Do you think that Diaw and Barbosa shouldn’t be on the roster of your beloved Suns?
The Lakers got beaten because the Celtics are a better team. It doesn’t matter how many white, black, latino, native american, foreign born, or space aliens they started, the final score is in and the Celts are the clear winners.
We should celebrate and embrace the diversity of the NBA as another example of how if one works hard, respects our nation, and makes a contribution, that the United States is a land of opportunity.
It is also a dramatic oversimplification to simply call the Lakers players foreign born. Radmonovic, Vujucic, Gasol, Turiaf, Mbenga may all be foreign born, but their stories are as different as one can imagine. If you look at these folks lives a little more closely, I think that you might not be so quick to judge them in a negative fashion.
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:17 am
math
you must not read my columns because i am the biggest Kobe fan on here. hands down.
Kobe is the best in the game hands down, but he needed help against a stingy determined defense. so i am not a Laker hater at all. i just call them like i see them.
i must admit since i am being honest. i am a Spur hater, but only the team name.
i love their players. they are truly class individuals and thats honesty.
Bruce Bowen although hated by many is my favorite Spur next to my good friend Kurt Thomas.
but when it comes to writing i will be honest and i enjoyed writing again for Hoops Hype this season.
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:19 am
Legs
don’t forget how the Lakers got Gasol for nothing.
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:24 am
Anonymous
you just answered my question. Gasol does play great for his country because he grew up understanding the importance of it. thanks for making my point!
Legs Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:24 am
Mbenga got brought up in a conversation…. lol…. Celtics have great defense, but are you guys really overlooking the fact that they had 3 SUPERSTARS!!!!!! Guys, 3 superstars… Not Kobe and Gasol, Not Kobe and Shaq, Not Duncan, Not Shaq and D Wade,… They had 3, Solid, top 100 players of all-time on their team… Did Danny Ainge make great deals to get them in Boston? Hell yeah.. did Pierce fake an injury last year to secure good draft pick to then trade for Ray Allen… and thats your NBA finals MVP??? Guys, 3 Superstars…
Michael Bennett Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:25 am
Okay, okay, Eddie. You love Kobe. We get it.
Did I ever mention that I love LeBron? And, he’s better than Kobe.
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:26 am
adfsafdadsfasfdfweawer
i said Boston in 6.
Puytzarra Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:26 am
You’re right Eddie. Foreign players didn’t step up in the Finals. They don’t know anything about Celtics-Lakers rivalry, or the whole NBA for that matter. Just the same way you didn’t step up in the 1995 Euroleague Final with Olympiakos against Real Madrid in Zaragoza. You had no idea (or interest) about european basketball. You were probaly there for the (lots of) money. Pretty chauvinistic and disrespectful article, isn’t it?
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:30 am
Michael
whats your next line—Lebron is better? Kobe can’t score against 5 defenders. the one thing i will always say about Kobe is that he will never quit. he needed help and did not get it consistently to win the series. bottom line.
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:34 am
frank
you are trying to make this into a foreign issue. that was not my point—read the article. i said they don’t understand the importance of the trophy to the magnitude of a Boston team that has 15 home grown products.
that is why Boston had an advantage. i have no hard feelings towards foreign players. –read the analogy i made of myself in the article.
Michael Bennett Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:35 am
Here’s LeBron’s stats in the two elimination games against the Celtics:
32 pts, 12 rbs, 6 asts, 2 stls, 1 blk, 9-23 FG, 13-15 FT in a WIN (Game 6)
and
45 pts, 5 rbs, 6 asts, 2 stls, 14-29 FG, 14-19 FT in a LOSS (Game 7)
How was he able to get to the rim so much against the Celtics unbelievable defense? Does he have even one good teammate? Hmm…
Here’s Kobe’s stats in the two elimination games against the Celtics:
25 pts, 7 rbs, 4 asts, 5 stls, 8-21 FG, 5-7 FT in a WIN (Game 5)
and
22 pts, 3 rbs, 1 ast, 1 stl, 7-22 FG, 5-5 FT in a LOSS (Game 6)
Why couldn’t he get to the rim like LeBron? Why didn’t he utilize his great teammates Gasol and Odom more? Hmm…
LeBron is better by a mile.
Michael Bennett Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:37 am
Eddie - Not quitting is the same as stubborn. In the NBA, stubbornness is a plague and not good for the team. You just admitted that Kobe is stubborn and not a good team player with what you said. And, I agree. Thank you.
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:39 am
Michael Bennett
at getting to the rim!
Lebron has a chance to become the best ever, but only when his ability to knock down mid-range jumpers improve.
until then—–MAMBA
kb Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:45 am
legs
bostons big 3 do NOT HAVE 3 of the top 100 players all time!!! haaaa. you are crazy for that one. you mean to tell me that paul peirce and allen are in teh top 20 catagory of sf and sg in NBA history? you are confused!!! NO way. i can name 5 better small fowards and 5 better in the game TODAY, so how can they be the best in nba history? just think about it a little dog, they are great players but NOT THAT GREAT.
holla
azzman555@yahoo
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:46 am
Nicholas Todd
Didnt mean to ignore your opening quote. i have made this a fun blog, nothing is personal here. we talk smack—-yes i am recalling my prediction because if you read my preview article and read all the attacks i got from Laker fans you might understand why I feel justified to request apologies.
i hope i explained myself because i don’t want someone from Australia being mad at me.
i plan on visiting in the next year or so. maybe you can show me around (-:
Jorge Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:50 am
” “Kevin McHale reveals he is still working for the Celtics and sends KG to Boston for a song and a dance (no disrespect intended to Al Jefferson and Ryan Gomes a 6-4 Power Forward generously listed at 6′-7)”
but u just did disrespect… you cant say no disrespect then rip someone, what the hell is that… al jefferson is a better player than odom and gasol. he will have a better career and much more gifted then they were when they were 22-23. I dont get how it was a steal that the celtics got kg, it wasn’t and minnesota fans feel that way.
if you wanna talk about robbery, how bout gasol trade, they got 2 back draft picks and kwame brown… KWAME BROWN! At least al jefferson was one of only 4-5 people to average 20-10.”
Couldn´t agree more Jacob!
You Lakers fan should stop crying, better luck next time….
Michael Bennett Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:51 am
Eddie - If you’re right, and Kobe’s the best, Isn’t it sad that ‘the best player on the planet’ just had his tush handed to him on the game’s biggest stage?
Would MJ have let that happen? Would Duncan? Would Bird? Magic?
39 points!!! That says something’s wrong with EVERY player on the Lakers. Kobe’s not exempt.
kb Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:54 am
oh yeah,
eddie… Lebron IS BETTER THAN KOBE… RIGHT NOW!!!!
you put kobe on the team and lebron lakers and the lakers beat boston in 6!!! the cavs wouldve lost to boston in 4!!!
lebron is better than kobe like paul is better than nash
HOLLA front office gig
frank Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:56 am
I didn’t make it into a foreign issue, you did. Hey I’m not trying to put you down, at least your article had a little controversy to it to make it interesting.
But do you really think that foreign born players lack the hunger, pride, and toughness of American players? The Celtics not only had more hunger, pride, and toughness than the Lakers, they put the ball through the hoop more often too! When that ball was going through the hoop for 128 points that last game, I doubt the basket asked whether it was “made in the USA”.
You also say that “on paper they (the Lakers) deserved to be smacked around”. This closely follows a sentence that talks about Laker players being from around the world. Vladimar Radmonovic lived in a war zone. Whatever his basketball faults, I doubt that he believes that he should be smacked around.
What I think that you are trying to express is that the NBA is a very, very physical brand of basketball, different from both college and most foreign leagues. I think that you are also expressing the fact that the Celts were such a veteran team that they knew how to dish out a very physical brand of basketball that the Lakers were not prepared for.
However, realistically, the person who was dominated the most in the series by the Celts was Lamar Odom, a veteran who should have known how to make adjustments. Kobe also had a hard time.
What a minute…wasn’t Kobe born in a foreign country?
Lyrically I Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:57 am
CELTIC DISS
Paul Pierce, limping around like your fierce
You ain’t crap, you hadn’t won nothing in your college or NBA career
Until you added 2 other all stars to your team,
Of course you were gonna win, you had a damn dream team,
Come on man, really Paul Pierce, you a fake
Wasn’t it you who faked an injury to get a higher draft pick
Oh and Ray Allen, yeah “He Got Game” and they on it
But where hell was your game when you were a SuperSonic
Or when u used to ball with cassell and the Big Dog
I saw your game logs, and all the games that you lost
And I know, cuz like Sam you could sell,
You should just stick to acting and making movies with Denzel
And when you see your man Garnett, tell him to calm down
Screaming and hollering to catch the attention of those around
Man I remember you too, weren’t u once a t’wolf
You always sucked in the playoffs, you should’ve played more like teenwolf
And asking for a trade, cuz u can’t lead a team
You have no excuses, I remember when y’all were the number 1 seed
And then Bill Russell called u a true Celtic, that’s hectic
He just said that so you wouldn’t feel rejected, neglected,
I suspected that you win an NBA crown,
But I Didn’t think you couldn’t do it without 2 all stars around
And Eddie House, come on man, you just a role player
I remember your earlier days when you was just a brick layer,
And now u got a chance to play and made some lucky shots,
now u jump around like a punk, my man you ain’t hot,
we could all hit 3’s when we’re open and we know u could,
especially when the Defense is focusing on players that are good
You were an afterthought on the mind of Phil Jackson,
Your like a John Paxson, a role player who won’t see no more action
And your man James Posey, come on just keep walking
With his mouthpiece in his mouth to stop his shit talking
So you got 2 rings, for not doing a thing,
Your name will be forgotten, come on your game is rotten
And Spotting up for 3’s, come on homey please
You and Eddie House couldn’t win without the Big 3
And how about this korny dude, P.J. Brown,
You should be in a wheelchair, you look like a washed up clown,
And I’m supposed to respect you cuz you play so hard,
of course you do, you only play 10 minutes a game you retard
And for the rest of you Celtics I’ll get at you one by one,
But I’ll only make it one line each, cuz it’ll sound more fun,
Hey Perkins, learn the game, get more knowledge,
Powe and Brown outplayed you, you should’ve went to college,
And Rondo, I think you’re the only one I respect
Your game is aight, but with 3 all stars, what do you expect
And overpaid Scalabrini, with your orange hair and freckles,
You’re the type of player that fans just love to heckle
And the diesel man, I feel bad for poor Powe
Dude scores 20 points, and still can’t get on the floor
And Glenn Davis, now I know why they call you Big Baby
Cuz your game is immature, too slow and too lazy
And Scott Pollard, man you will never learn
Your game is done, just retire and grow some longer sideburns
And my man Pruitt, its time to get to it
Mayo is the only good player from USC and that’s what the truth is
And little Tony Allen, acting all quiet and shit
Can’t coach Rivers put him in for just a little bit
And last but not least, gotta take a shot at Cassell
Your good for an old guy, but your ugly as hell
So there go the Celtics man,
Danny Ainge figured out a masterplan,
Lose games on purpose, so they could get their man,
So you won a chip, but there’s no way you could be glad
And the crowd, where the hell was all the support last season
since the team wasn’t winning, I guess there wasn’t a reason
To show up to the games and support the staff
And now your all going crazy, when last year you laughed
At that team, and were embarrassed to be fans
Now you sellout the stands and cant stop clapping your hands
Now your praising Doc Rivers, and saying he’s a great coach
When you were ready to boo him, vs the hawks if they choked,
But like in every sport, you got a bunch of frontrunners
Acting like they support, and their Celtic Lovers
So when your sleeping at night and y’all think you’re the shit,
Just Remember one thing, you bought this championship,
Jorge Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 12:04 pm
And so what if the celtics have 3 “superstars”? Is it against any rule??
Didn´t the Lakers once had Shaq, Kobe, Malone and Payton and still lost to the Pistons??
I don´t remember everyone picking the celtics to win it al on the beggining of the season only because Allen and Garnett joined the team, very few people did…
They said rondo was to young and they had no bench, and even when they won 66 games, 90% of the peoplie were still picking the Lakers on the finals….and now they won because they have 3 superstars?? Common, a lot of doubts had to be clear, and it´s a great history cause Pierce, KG and Allen finally got their rings, 3 good guys and great players, I´m happy for them……
I also think Lebron is better than Kobe! The talent is pretty much the same, but Lebron is a better guy, his teammates play for him, unlike Kobe who scares the hell out of everybody on his team…..
Michael Bennett Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 12:08 pm
Kobe LIVED in a foreign country. Maybe that had something to do with it.
Celtics247.com » Blog Archive » Today’s Links 6/19 Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 12:08 pm
[...] use Celtics’ blueprint Topix Next goal: Two in a row for Celtics Big Three Hoopshype Why the Celtics won Globe and Mail Defense wins championships Cavalier Attitude How ya like Big Game James (Posey) [...]
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 12:20 pm
frank
thats why they value playing for their country more. You see the emotion rise up in these players on that circuit.
Kobe grew up in Italy, but his dad played for a top team in the NBA.
Kobe spent his summers here and he played high school ball here.
Paul Varjak Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 12:21 pm
Eddie,
Your finals analysis and prediction were spot on. Congratulations for having the balls to not follow the herd.
I can’t believe that Laker fans are still complaining about the Celtics acquisition of KG. We gave up a very good young player in Al Jefferson who averaged 21 ppg and 11 rpg; a decent player in Ryan Gomes 12.6 ppg and 5.8 rpg. We also sent our 1st round pick in 2009 (I know it will be a late 1st round pick) and we sent back a 1st round conditional pick we had obtained in the Wally Szczerbiak trade. Compare all of that with what the Lakers gave up for Gasol and it isn’t even close so please stop with this. It’s not even debatable.
Michael Bennett Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 12:38 pm
See, Eddie - kb agrees with me about LeBron. And, kb is smart enough to have a front office job in the National Basketball Association.
sean from cayman islands Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 12:51 pm
bottom line…the best TEAM won. bryant , for all his superior skill, had 2 problems: his team mates defer out of fear of his pretend MJ attitude and the c’s defense was, as stated, the best seen in the nba save for the bulls teams a decade ago ( don’t even dispute…check the tape people..those bulls were a revelation on D)…..Know the happiest bandwagon jumping c”s fan today and for the next year? The Diesel!!!!
hahahahaha…..
Jacob Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 1:07 pm
“Kobe choked. It’s that simple. Like one of my basketball friends said, Kobe is one of the worst Finals “superstars” performers. Look at 2004. Look at 2008 for examples.”
but he doesn’t consider those finals kobe won, he points the two his team lost, hey its a team game!
lebron can get to the hoop better because hes bigger and stronger, plain and simple, he can and never will be able to defend or shoot like kobe. get off your agenda michael bennett.. take ur goggles off and anaylze a game.
also bird and magic have lost finals before… so hasn’t your binky lebron james,
just because mj and duncan havent lost in the finals doesn’t mean u can bash kobe for losing in the finals.
Walt Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 1:13 pm
I think what this series boiled down to two key facts:
1) The Lakers didn’t do what they were suppose to.
2) The Celtics did what they had to.
The Lakers could have won this series, but there weren’t enough adjustments made quarter-to-quarter, game-to-game. The bench and even several of the starters, did not step up, didn’t give a good effort, and frankly looked scared or disinterested at times.
The Celtics did everything that had to for the win, which means taking charges, fouling hard, and playing off-the-ball defense. Doc was constantly shuffling players in-and-out of the lineup in order to expose match-ups, making adjustments, and preaching to keep the effort level high, even when they were getting blown out.
A couple moments in this series could tell you exactly the difference between the Celtics and the Lakers. On a fast break, Farmar basically watched Pierce lay the ball up, instead of taking a charge, or hitting him with a hard foul. If it was Kobe on the fastbreak and Posey at the other end, he probably would have McHale’d him into the cheerleaders a la Kurt Rambis. Also, for many of the games (especially Game 6) the Lakers bench was sitting on their hands (except for Turiaf), while the Celtics bench was doing cartwheels, no matter what the score was.
So from me to you, Eddie you were right about the Celtics, and I and many others were wrong about the Lakers. They did not come to play, and showed.
I don’t think all is lost in Laker Land, as the team is young, this experience will help them grow, and Bynum will help their defense and rebounding by leaps and bounds. But for this year, enjoy the champaign and trophy, Celtics.
Doug Christie's wife's cousin Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 1:20 pm
This article reminds me of the way white golfers used to talk about the absence of black players in the golf world back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Even now, I hear people say, ” sure, Tiger’s great, but other than him…” Same with tennis, swimming, hockey, etc… I think it is a fundamentally flawed argument. People tend to use whatever arguments they can to support their biases. If Tim Duncan hadn’t won 4 titles, people would probably say he’s got too much of a laid-back caribbean attitude to win the big games… he’s not “passionate” or “driven” enough…. but we all know that’s not the case, so an argument like that isn’t allowed to surface. Last year’s nba champs had at least 5 foreign born players, including 3 starters. The idea that homegrown players are somehow “naturally” more capable of winning in the NBA is a theory that has it’s roots in racism.
Jason Whitlock of the Kansas City Star wrote an article similar to yours and later rescinded that opinion with another article, saying he was wrong to make such a broad statement. I wish you would do the same.
John M Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 2:10 pm
Sorry about the silly name above– I was on a different hoopshype blog and writing a much more joking type of comment in response to something funny that someone had written, and forgot to change it before submitting this comment.
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 2:10 pm
Doug Christie’s wife’s cousin
I am not Jason Whitlock and i don’t view my article as a negative.
I will repeat again. the Lakers deserved to be in the Finals, but the Celtics were more hungry and desperate to win it all and they did.
case closed!
tell Doug hi and that i wish he would have signed that contract when the Sonics drafted him. i would have loved to have that defense on our team.
John M Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 2:34 pm
You are a racist.
Case closed!
Jacob Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 2:43 pm
look at you eddie name dropping, i said hi to jojo white after the celtics game, he walked past me near the pro shop.
rich Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 2:44 pm
Great view Eddie..
Could not have said it any better. I do agree on Lakers not going back to Finals next year because the West is just too tight. I of course am a Shaq fan so I’m a bit biased for Phoenix however if boston plays defense like what they did, then it’s BACK TO BACK. Thanks Eddie.
Kingsblade Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 3:01 pm
I am having a hard time comprehending how some of you people on here are as idiotic as you are.
His comments about foreign players has NOTHING to do with any sort of ethnic trait.
He is talking about what things are important to a person. European players coming here do not give the NBA title the same importance as players who grew up here. Conversely, american players who play in europe do not give their european league championship the same importance as someone who grew up there. This holds even more true for specific rivalries.
I live in canada, and regularly watch american football players, who would sell their soul for a shot at the superbowl and an NFL title, go through the motions while trying to win a CFL title.
Why are people putting ethnicity into it at all?
Since some of you seem to be in high school still we will use that as an example.
Imagine you go to western high, and your school has had a fierce rivalry with eastern high. You have been there for 3 years now and have learned to hate them. You play ball, and the only thing you care about is beating eastern. Then your parents move and you have to go to northern high. Their rivalry is southern. Do you now suddenly want to beat southern as badly as you wanted to beat eastern before you moved? Not likely. You will play, and you will try your best, but the level if intensity that you would have brought against eastern will not magically appear for southern.
Please stop trying to make Eddie’s comments into some sort of ethnocentric diatribe. He was pointing out a natural tendency of ALL PEOPLE.
John M Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 3:23 pm
I respectfully disagree Kingsblade. Eddie has a history of condescending opinions about foreign players. Reread the intro. Do you honestly believe that Pau Gasol has “no idea” about the history of the Celtics-Lakers rivalry? He’s been in the league for years, and he grew up watching NBA basketball just like you did. The implication is Pau and the others mentioned must be completely oblivious to the world that they are living in, while it took Eddie one incident of having rocks thrown at his house to understand. Also, Eddie has never had anything good to say about a guy like Ginobili, and now tries to defend his position by saying Ginobili is the poster boy for learning fast…. which is to say, his ridiculous theory is still right and Ginobili, whose existence disproves the theory, is a wild exception. He is not an exception. He was never an exception before for Eddie– he was an over-rated flopper, but now he’s Eddie’s “poster-boy”… give me a break.
Lakurluv Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 3:31 pm
Good Review. I have to agree with the majority of your assessment, but the last statement I totally disagree with. The Lakers will return to the Finals next year, I actually think that everyone underestimated the Eastern Conference, and I think it was a lot tougher than people thought it too be. The Lakers are at an advantage from a Free Agent perspective. I think a few tweaks here and there, such as a Defensive Small Forward, A Defensive Coach, a focus on Defense will make all of the difference. The Lakers will dominate next year, not to take anything away from the rest of the West, because I believe Portland will be a force next year, but I truly believe the Lakers will Take the crown hands down!!!
Euors do have a different approach to the game, US Players have a greater focus on that Fact, and exploit it every chance they get.
frank Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 4:11 pm
eddie,
this frank is the same as the first 2 frank posts but not the 2 latter. i was never making this a foreign issue. all i wanted to imply is that if you’re a professional basketball player, regardless of where you’re born, you’re main focus should be winning championships. and if i’m the coach and i notice that focus is distracted for any reason, then you’re not playing?
and let’s not blame kobe entirely. history shows you can’t do it on your own. and history also shows you need at least 2 future hall of fame caliber players on your team to win a title and if you’re lucky you’ll get 3. can you say that about odom? pau? are they future HOFers? NO. i’d take luc longley or toni kukoc over either of those two guys in a heartbeat.
kobe needs a running mate and 2 second rate ones won’t do. maybe bynum could be that guy, but the jury is still out on that one. and yes it will probably take 2 years before we can make that assessment.
Mangro Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 4:18 pm
Calling all the international players soft or floppers is a sure sign of racism and lack of knowledge of the game. Of course there are a few busts, but they come with a lot of fundamentals and is good for the game having different styles. The Lakers losing has nothing to do with the Euro players, it was a good defensive Celtics team with more hunger and passion that rolled over them.
Cman Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 4:27 pm
Eddie, once again a nice article and once again hats off to you for picking (correctly) Celtics in 6. I am still amazed that ESPN had 7 of their 8 “experts” picking the Lakers…. some picking the Lakers in 5 games! Go figure.
Mangro Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 4:28 pm
Doug Christie’s wife’s cousin makes a great point, the past decade has seen a back to back MVP from Canada, a team (San Antonio ) were his core of players neither were born or raised in the US. The last 2 sixth man have been from Argentina and Brazil. The most followed player is from China, and I can keep going and going. People, the problem is not that international players are soft, is that the NBA is a flawed game, with bad officiating, lacks of fundamentals and full of egomaniacs.
John M Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 5:10 pm
Lakurluv said:
“Euors do have a different approach to the game, US Players have a greater focus on that Fact, and exploit it every chance they get.”
This is exactly what I’m talking about. You can’t sum up all euros in a neat tidy sentence that implies that they are naturally inferior, or say that U.S. players have a greater focus. This is ridiculous. Euro players vary as much as any other human group, including Americans: did Dennis Rodman play the same way as Mike Miller? After all, they are both American. Does Ron Artest have the same focus that Kevin Garnett has? Would you say White people are just naturally better at golf than Blacks, based on the “evidence?” Sorry, my opinion may get in the way of your pre-conceived notions, but what you’re saying is racist.
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 5:41 pm
John M
never!
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 5:44 pm
Kingsblade
Thank You! you explained it in a way i did not. Excellent. where is Michael when we need him—oh probably still watching Lebron tapes. LOL
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 5:54 pm
John M
Figured a Spurs fan. listen John i like Ginobili. Do i think he is inconsistent ? yes is he a flopper? heck yes
Do i think Gasol is soft? well yes and a double yes.
they both can play and i love their skill, but you my man are to sensitive.
Spur fans read my articles because i tell the truth. they might not like when i talk about their team—Just like i get mad when they talk about my Suns.
i love the inclusion of foreign players in our league it has made American players focus on the skill set of the game and not just the athleticism.
So please stop being so Spur-ish and enjoy their vacation like i am with my Suns.
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 6:04 pm
Mangro
read the article man! i said this in reference to the trio on the Lakers.
“The Lakers are littered with players from all over the world. And yes, they deserved to be in the Finals. But they also on paper deserved to be smacked around. I said before the series that they were a (soft unit) and they did not disappoint. ”
Ask me if i think Parker and Ginobili are soft? Heck no is Turiaf soft ? heck no a lot of the foreign players are tough as heck.
read the article again. i was making reference and comparison to the knowledge and hunger for the trophy.
you get it now or you want me to call you and walk you through the article word by word (-:
Michael Bennett Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 6:08 pm
Just got back from watching LeBron tapes…
What’s going on? What did I miss?
Matt Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 6:09 pm
To the dude who wrote that rap on the Celtics:
Never rap again.
And to be perfectly frank, the Celtics didn’t buy the championship. If anyone in the NBA had ever bought the championship, it was the Lakers from 2000-2002. You said some of the stupidest, most ignorant garbage I’ve ever read.
Maybe you should get a reality check.
frank B Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 6:19 pm
I’ll be Frank B so that other guy with with the great name isn’t confused for me (I wrote the “latter” Frank quotes).
Call it whatever name you want to call it, but lumping a group of people together by some common characteristic such as their “Euros” or “Foreign” is just plain wrong. And it really doesn’t offer much in the way of analysis as to what creates winning basketball.
Eddie I give you credit for developing a theory and putting it into writing in a way that stimulated this conversation, but your central thesis that foreigners don’t have what it takes to win a championship is not supported by the evidence.
If one goes to Wikipedia and asks for a list of foreign born NBA players past and present I’m sure a lot of these guys would be surprised that they don’t have the love for the NBA trophy required to be champions: Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobli, Tony Parker, Peja Stojakovic, Luol Deng, Hakeem Olujawon, Steve Nash, Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, Leandro Barbosa, Rick Fox, Mychal Thompson, Nene, Patrick Ewing, Dirk Nowitski, Detlef Schrempf, Dominique Wilkins, Samuel Dalembert, Sarunas Marciulionis, Bill Wennington, Luc Longley, Arvydas Sabonis, Darius Songaila, Andrei Kirelinko, Al Horford, Yao Ming, Andres Nocioni, etc., etc., etc.
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 6:30 pm
Mangro
Nash played in the states and again for the last time i did not call all Foreign players soft.
Michael Bennett Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 6:33 pm
Why are you so racist, Eddie? You didn’t say it in your article, but I could feel the ‘cracker’ inferences when talking about Europeans.
Ah… Good times. Anyone who really thinks you are racist doesn’t understand that most NBAers are colorblind and are at the forefront of progressive thinking when it comes to different races, religions, creeds and cultures.
Great article… Got to get back to my LeBron tapes, though.
ericktmd Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 7:07 pm
yo eddie here it comes….im SORRY!!! but hey you are too quick to dismiss the lakers for next year. sometimes a nice ass whooping is all you need to get a little hungrier and a little tougher. i think these lakers with #17 need another chance to show what they have. things should be better in lakerland next year. and people stop kobe hating!!!!! the dudes for real!! didnt le bron’s team taste the broom just the other year?!! LOL
Metin Kirhan Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 7:41 pm
As I stated in my comment after the game 5, I was right in my prediction about the series. Lakers aren’t mature enough to win three consecutive games at home. They’ll probably be here again with a health Bynum, but he just can’t solve all the problems of Lakers. What we saw and learnt in this match-up:
1) Celtics were more hungry. Especiallt KG and PP.
2) Posey was X-factor of the series. He really did a good job defensively and offensively.
3) Kobe was outplayed by PP except for one game. He lost second time in the Finals which never happened to MJ.
4) Gasol is a soft player and he was harassed by KG most of the time.
5) Despite some aging players, Lakers still lack experience.
6) It was strange to see Kobe in the last two games just trying to shoot from the distance instead of driving inside. Was he scared? I don’t think so, but it was “really” strange…
7) It’s good to be on the same page with Eddie.
John M Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 9:27 pm
I’m not a Spurs fan. I used them as an example to prove how your reasoning is wrong since they won the championship last year with many foreign players.
eddie Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 10:03 pm
John M
you are still on that argument claiming i said all Foreign players are soft.
WILL YOU READ THE ARTICLE? lol
Metin Kirhan Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 10:17 pm
One quick reminder:
Eddie is right about his adventure in Greece against Turkish teams. Because I’m Turkish and the games (be it basketball or soccer) against the Greek teams are always eagerly anticipated and exciting. Almost two years ago Turkey beat Greece 4-1 in soccer in Athens and after each goal the Greek fans became really furious and threw anything they could in the pitch. One year later they beat us 1-0 in Turkey.
John M Said,
June 19, 2008 @ 11:14 pm
I’m not “on” any argument you dummy. I’m just pointing out to you that your assumption about me being a Spurs fan is incorrect.
jeremy Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 12:08 am
I just don’t get the Lakers soft reference. Where they soft when they swept the Nuggets, or soft whenever they won game 6 in Utah? Or how about when the beat the Spurs who are probably the toughest team mentally in the NBA?
Are all of those teams soft as well?
The Lakers just lost because the Celtics were the flat out better team. It was evident during even the regular season that they had trouble against the Celtics and Pierce especially. Can’t a team just lose because they simply weren’t as good?
Your reference about players not knowing the history of the game is just complete bs. Sure you don’t know about the importance of beating Turkey, noone does, but for these foreigners they dream about coming to America to play in the NBA. Your dream wasn’t to go to Greece and play basketball. I have a friend who is from Turkey to attend college here and he knows more about the NBA and it’s history than most people who call themselves fans.
For most of the Lakers besides Fish, Walton, and Kobe, this was their fisrt true taste of playoff success. Their season was a huge success and they are in great position for next year with Bynum returning and the expiring contract of Odom to dangle in trade talks which could perhaps return a true SF like Antawn Jamison (s&t) or Ron Artest.
I just don’t understand how a guy (Gasol) can go from holding in check Camby, Boozer, and Duncan to being called soft in the same post season.
Or how a guy (Kobe) can basically carry a team all season that was projected to barely make the playoffs into the Finals beating two of the best teams in the NBA (Jazz, Spurs) in the process then lose in the Finals to a 67 win team and be toasted for it.
Ah, that’s the media for you.
Bulgakov Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 12:35 am
i agree with Jeremy’s comments. Every year 29 teams don’t win the title and suddenly armchair critics appear everywhere talking about how this team needs to be dismantled and that team is worthless, etc. This was Boston’s year, but L.A., New Orleans, San Antonio, Detroit, and a few others are still very good teams, and Portland, Orlando, and Atlanta are young teams to watch. Remember: a year ago, Boston was projected to be a lottery team. With the draft, free agency, and potential trades, next year looks to be another great nba season.
XOSE Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 1:16 am
Eddie man…
how many players non US born had former championships (mmm Virgin Islands… yeah all of them wake up singing the splanged…)
And maybe Gasol can tell you that he could not fight in the biggest game of his live to date. he was injured in the final of the World Championship in Japan (not a private league with as many money as terrible way to play a sort of basketball despite Prof. James N. That championship (of the world, not of Stern) that proud Americans deserving a bronze medal refused to attend the ceremony. Maybe he will have another chance once again in Asia this summer… so you should
start praying all you know, Puerto Rico, Greece, Argentina or Angola can hurry up your trip back home-
Celtics won, they deserved it, I’m glad o f it.. and thanks to one person basically: PHIL
A money Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 2:22 am
La Rhon, your an idiot, and just like eddies oppening paragraph, you are boderline racist. Spurs hahve been the best team in the L for thee last 6 years led by euro gaurd and fromer finals MVP Tony Parker. Also Manu is no european he is from south america you ignorant %*#!. PS im balck
Eddie J, im a fan but whats with pointing out the obvious in this article. Also, suggesting that non american baller do not know of the celtic laker history is pure ignorance. Guys like Gasol and inparticular a SG like sasha develop their competive drive ( the one required just to get into the L) from watching great NBA battles growing up. you will be interested to know that domestic ball in europe and asia pacific region was at it’s peak when magic, bird and mj graced the courts.
Im from Australia and i can tell you about all Lakes V Celtics back to when Red was coaching. i can even tell you about Heat v Knicks in the 90s etc.
Anyway Eddie
Kingsblade Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 2:29 am
John M,
Being aware that a rivalry exists is not the same as seeing it first hand, or understanding it. Not by a mile.
Mangro,
I keep reading and rereading Eddie’s post and I simply cannot find the passage you are refering to where he calls European players floppers. Try reading the post.
Jeremy,
Ah yes, the egocentric American who defends the beseiged European players by explaining how they grew up dreaming of coming to America to play in the NBA. I would suggest that for many of them the dream is closer to the opposite. I would bet that many European basketball players wish that there were leagues at home on the continent which could pay the same money as the NBA so it could attract the same quality of players and they could stay there instead. For such players winning the NBA would simply not have the meaning that it would to home grown players.
There is a guy I know who plays for Manchester United. He grew up in Canada and went over to germany to play football, later moving on to United. Did he dream of going to Europe to play? Not really, but that was where the best leagues were and the best players, so if he wanted to reach his potential he had no choice.
There is no title he could win as a pro in Europe that would mean as much to him as it would to a European. Does he want to win? Damn right, to be the best, but the childhood dream had little to do with winning the German league, or the English Premier.
He also was completely unprepared for the rivalries, until he actually participated in them. Now he knows what to expect, but the first time??? He had been playing over there for a while before going to Manchester, so he knew about them, but that is just not the same thing as actually participating.
Is that a better example for you than a Greece/Turkey rivalry?
Here is hockey stat to support this idea…the NHL has had European players for quite a while, but this year was the first time ever that the Stanley Cup was won by a team with a European team captain. Not only that, but it is only the second time that the Playoff MVP was a European, and only the third time it was a non-canadian.
Makes you wonder, because according to many of you guys, supposedly everyone in the world who plays hockey should automatically dream of being the Stanley Cup Champion, since that’s apparently how it works in basketball.
I wonder why the overwhelming majority of playoff performers are the very guys who actually DO grow up dreaming that exact dream. (Especially when the regular season is dominated by Europeans) They are not inferior players, the Stanley cup just does not have the same importance to them.
Glenn Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 4:40 am
There’s an interesting article on NBA.com. It starts like this: “Why are they so good at basketball? They dominate the sport. They must have some innate physical advantage the rest of us don’t have. Sound familiar? But in the first half of the 20th century “they” were Jews.” (Go to the bottom of the NBA.com main page and click on “hoopedia: basketball wiki”.) I bring this up because I think it relates to this discussion. Anyone reading this now will laugh at the idea that there was once a theory in the USA that Jews were just naturally better equipped to play basketball, and I think 25 years from now people will laugh at the theory that europeans don’t have the “hunger, pride, and toughness” (Eddie Johnson’s words) to compete in the nba.
The reasoning here just doesn’t make sense. The Detroit Pistons are all “home-grown” players and so are the Hornets (except for Peja). They lost because they faced better teams, not because the players didn’t understand how important the playoffs were. And it’s the same for the Lakers. This is a racially motivated debate, and denying that is denying the truth. Why would someone start an article about the finals with that sentence (reread it please Kingsblade!) if that wasn’t the point of the article in the first place?? What, non-americans don’t have “pride?” Reread the first paragraph please with an open mind.
C Fatz Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 7:57 am
George J. Thanx for the clarification.
“Fatz, that is not entirely true . Detroit won all three home ames when they beat the Lakers in 2004.” makes me glad that I quoted Roone instead of taking credit for the stat myself.
Still in most years the 2-3-2 format creates a homecourt disadvantage.
CF
:0)
C Fatz Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 8:04 am
Jacob,
I have to disagree with you. I’ll say it outright. Kevin Garnett is better than Al Jefferson. If I said that to Al Jefferson’s face he would not feel disrespected. (It might in fact make him feel motivated).
And surely you’re not saying to reveal Ryan’s real height is disrespect - he’s only as tall as he is.
You make a good counterpoint recalling the Gasol for Kwame trade, that also was a sweetheart deal, and it clearly propelled the Lakers into the finals. But tell me who would you rather have Kevin Garnett or Pau Gasol on your team? So really Pau Gasol at any price even a bargain price is not as good a deal as KG for Al Jefferson (even though Al if he remains uninjured will have a bright and productive future)
peace
CF
:0)
C Fatz Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 8:11 am
Jorge,
Thanx 4 your response. Don’t accuse me of being a Laker fan, and I’m surely not crying that the Celtics won. I predicted the Celtics in 5. (I was a little off).
Just reporting the facts as I see them. And hoping maybe Eddie takes notice of my basketball acumen so that I can take over running this column when he is occupied with the Suns if should Terry Porter call his number
CF
:0)
Melvin Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 8:31 am
after all it was a long and storied one for the celtics
http://basketballnonsense.blogspot.com/2008/06/long-and-storied-one-for-boston.html
David Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 10:03 am
Glenn,
Thanks for turning me on to Hoopedia (always been a big fan of WIkipedia)…
Porky Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 10:15 am
I told everyone to be there.
I hope you were.
I was there.
Celtic Pride restored.
Eddie- one of the few people to predict Celts victory. Hats off to you and yes the Celts will return to the Finals and win again.
Rühl Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 10:16 am
You mean that the big problem is because of the foreign players. And that´s the main reason why teh celtics have won. And what about the three rings that tony kukoc, manu ginobili or tony parker have, for example? Think about it, my friend.
eddie Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 10:55 am
John M
are you upset? calm down. it will be ok.
eddie Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 10:59 am
jeremy
your argument about your friend knowing more could be true. I know alot about being a lawyer, but i never went to law school.
fans over here feel it—just like when i try to explain why fans throw objects at players during games in europe. fans over here know about it, but you have to be there to understand it.
yes they have passion to play in the NBA. Now they are learning what rivalry’s and the winning the trophy is about.
Money, the NBA and a better life was there driving force before than
eddie Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 11:11 am
Kingsblade
Well said.
listen guys do you honestly think we would have seen the reaction we got from Garnett and Pierce after the horn sounded from Radmanovic, Vujacic and Gasol? yes they would have been extremely happy, but Garnett let it all go in front of a national audience.
that my friends is understanding what that trophy meant.
Example, when i won the Greek Championship i was happy, but i was not dancing and kissing every man in site like my teammates were.
when we won the game to play in the euro championship with olympiaokos i did not cry and kiss everyone.
yes i was happy, but my passion was still for the NBA TROPHY. That was what i knew and respected as the top of the mountain.
Michael Bennett Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 11:40 am
Eddie - I think you should go into your Ray Allen paragraph a little more. Although I don’t agree with you that he should have been MVP (My pick was KG), Ray Allen played lights out basketball.
He averaged over 20 ppg in the Finals, and only averaged 12 FGA per game. That number is knocking me over. I just can’t believe it.
Kobe needs to take a page out of Ray Allen’s book and play like the role SG he was born to play. Kobe has to realize he can’t be the Jordan-type leader of the Lakers. He just can’t. He’s not built that way. Let the other Lakers do their jobs and next year, they might have a chance at the title. Ray Allen, this year, was the best role SG. And, the best thing is that it all came together in the Finals… where it’s supposed to come together.
Glenn Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 11:51 am
Yeah, but Garnett is a very intense, emotional player who wears his heart on his sleeve. We didn’t see that kind of emotion from Rip Hamilton, Brent Barry, or Jason Williams either when they won and they are all Americans. Emotional reactions vary. For example, Manu Ginobili is much more emotional than Robert Horry.
eddie Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 12:01 pm
Glenn
thats why the Celtics beat them—hence my coloumn. Emotion for the title. wanting it more. 15 homegrown players that were bonded together by three stars who needed to validate their greatness against the Lakers who got far but met their match.
Patrick Pellicano Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
Eddie as a diehard Celtics fan I always respected your game big-time. I love your analysis. And please ignore all these pissed off Laker fans- they’re lack of common sense is amusing
Glenn Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 12:24 pm
I understand what you are saying, but the guys I mentioned won titles too while being more emotionally understated because that’s their personality, and it has nothing to do with where they were born. This variation occurs in all countries and in all sports. Others have mentioned Duncan: he is neither home-grown nor extremely emotional, but he has 4 rings to Garnett’s one. How would you respond if someone wrote an article claiming that Garnett needed to be more like Duncan, using Duncan’s better success rate as “proof” that his way is the right way, or the only way to approach the game? I would say that’s a bad argument. It works for Duncan, but wouldn’t work for other players who don’t have that kind of emotional wiring. I just think Boston won because, as Garnett said, they are a defense oriented team who can score the basketball. Their defense was too good for a good Lakers team. Great defense wins championships, regardless of whether the player playing the great defense was born in a hospital in downtown Detroit or downtown Barcelona.
kb Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
i cant wait until the draft…. so we can talk about something else… the lakers lost, c’s won… im ready to talk about sleepers and draft busts
azzman555@yahoo
B K Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 1:55 pm
Glenn– this is my favorite quote from that article on hoopedia (hilarious!). Thanks for the recommendation.
“The reason, I suspect, that basketball appeals to the Hebrew, with his Oriental background,” wrote Paul Gallico, sports editor of the New York Daily News and one of the premier sportswriters of the 1930s, “is that the game places a premium on an alert, scheming mind, flashy trickiness, artful dodging and general smart-aleckness.”
eddie Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 1:56 pm
i agree.
Laker fans you had a great year. i look forward to my Suns eliminating you again next year and i am sure you feel the same way.
Boston fans congrats on the great year and i hope my Suns meet you in next years Finals.
space Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 3:37 pm
bennett get real. ray allen is my favorite for finals mvp but this should have been a split award with at least 1 of the other big three. they all did their share and more. they played team ball but never took center stage in every single game, whether it was a win or loss.
and eddie is kinda right on european players and the scope of the legend made before this years finals. compare the passion of whatsay a european manchester united soccer/football championship game vs. anybody. you see the enthusiasm of the fans, the nationalities, the players. they get crazy. we don’t really know anything about that– even to be an american in a game so great and wanting to be there, we didn’t grow up with that same passion in us. we have our own, but there’s a difference. face facts, you are not going to feel winning that championship or pursuing that championship the same way the dude born in england who tracked them every breath of his life is going to feel it. expressions and personality aside— pau gasol may ‘want it’ but does he know what ‘it’ is? that isn’t why they lost though
give gasol his due. he will not drop 3 hard fouls on people and talk trash. not his style clearly. but in my view he showed toughness and aggressiveness. HE is A PLAYER. sadly, most of the time he was the only big man on the court for the lakers [please do not count lamar odom]. the lakers defense was not exceptional and he ran into garnett, perkins and PJ brown all day.
let’s break this down even further. garnett entered the league in 1995. gasol in 2001. garnett already had 6 years of experience on gasol. he checked him every contest in the western conference while gasol was just a rookie trying to show & prove. i haven’t looked at the stats but head to head i have a feeling that garnett owned him. not even touching the playoff disparity between the two. gasol just had an uphill battle, let’s leave it at that. stop beating up on the dude.
the lakers as a team were not at their best and forced to play catch up all series.
get andrew bynum back healthy and see if they do a pistons vs. lakers turnaround when isaiah thomas got his championship.
eddie — the suns?
ha. kerr is almost ready to hit the destructo button on that team. if not he may need to. either way, their window closes after ‘o9. 2010 if they are lucky until they restock… or actually get their coach to use the teams bench. d’antoni needed to be fired for that alone.
no idea Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 3:51 pm
What a moronic jingoistic blog.
Get a passport and visit the world man.
Probably you will learn something for the first time in your live.
Kingsblade Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 3:57 pm
Glenn,
Garnett may be known as hyper-emotional, but Pierce and Allen are not, and both of them had pretty major emotional reactions too. You cannot simply point out one or two exceptions and claim to have made your point.
Did you see Horry when he won his first ring? Not lacking emotion there was he? People who have that many rings grow accustomed to it. Horry has won nearly half the time he has been in the league. Ginobili is emotional in his playing style, but I do not remember seeing tears of joy from him when he first won a championship. Did he work his ass off for it? Yes. Does it mean the same thing to him that it does to Americans? I very much doubt it.
Duncan actually displayed a good deal of emotion, especially when he first won, but he actually is an example of our point more than yours. You are mistaking a discussion of BASKETBALL CULTURE for a discussion of ethnicity. Duncan was born off of continental USA, but growing up he was a part of the American basketball culture. He played college in the US. He learned how to play at a high level in the US. The NBA title would have been his dream. Same goes for a guy like Steve Nash.
Do you ever wonder why the US can send clearly superior teams to international competition and lose? It is funny to me when people claim it has solely to do with strategy or tactics, or team play. They also lose because they do not want it as badly. Most people care more about winning for their country than they do about their NBA team. This is why there are controversies coming up now, with NBA teams not allowing them to go play internationally. Do you think there woiuld even be an argument if they were American? Ask the Raptors and Garbajosa about it. Do you think the same thing would happen if the Celtics asked Garnett not to play in the worlds? He would happily comply because to him the NBA is more important. They grow up dreaming about being on their national team and winning for their country, while American players grow up dreaming about playing in the NBA finals.
Does anyone here know why European hockey players are now starting to win in the NHL? Likely because most have started coming to Canada when they are 15 or 16 and are developing their game from inside the Canadian hockey culture. It only takes about 30 seconds of playing time to tell a European who developed here from one who developed there. As part of this culture they are beginning to revere the Stanley cup the way that we do.
This same effect is in the early stages now in basketball, with a few good Europeans coming to the NCAA. Nobody is saying that they are not as good, or as tough, or as skilled, or anything of the sort. We are saying that the games that they dream of winning are not the games that Americans dream of winning.
You like pointing to individuals as examples, so why don’t I do the same.
One of my all-time favorite players is Oscar Schmidt. Drafted in ‘84 by the Nets he actually refused to come to the NBA because back then it would affect his amateur status and he would not be able to play for Brazil anymore. No Americans who played him would suggest he lacked heart or ability (especially those who played him at the 1987 Pan American Games in Indianapolis) but he clearly did not have winning the NBA as his greatest aspiration.
I submit that this still holds for many foreign players today. This is not a knock against them, it is simply a statement about what matters most to them. Garbajosa basically threw away an NBA career to play in the worlds. Do you really think any American player would do the same?
Stop trying to make this a conversation about race, because it is about sports culture, and nothing more. Sure there are exceptions, but the logic behind the reasoning still stands.
Man I cannot believe the essays this topic has brought out of me, but it irritates me when people try to bring race into a conversation where it does not belong.
Ovais Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 4:10 pm
I hate the fact that the Celtics won. Like Jeff above, I resent the fact that they have 3 superstars on the same team. I think KG acted deplorably at the end of game 7. I for one will openly say I HATE THE CELTICS.
I hope the other teams beef up to shut these arrogant pricks down.
Cassell wants to be back? No kidding. Boston will be a place that alot of veterans will go for lower money to win a championship. I really hope that this doesnt come to pass. Somebody, be a spoiler! Put these green punks in their place. It’s not a divine right to win a championship. I truly hope this is a one-off.
Kingsblade Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 4:24 pm
I could almost see your point…if the the series had even gone seven games.
John Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 4:27 pm
Lakers only need one fix - bring in A.I. . Lamar is not going away any time soon.
SE Green Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 5:13 pm
Hey Ovais,
You can’t spell and you can’t count. By definition you’re a simpleton.
KG acted deplorably? What about philandering Kobe’s action in Colorado? Not only did he cheat on his wife, but he insisted on finishing on his dalliance’s face. No is no unless you have a good lawyer. Right, Kobe?
How did the “The Then Master” act when he purposefully mispronounced Leon Powe’s name after Game 2? The answer is disrespectfully, Ovais.
My hope is that the Minneapolis/Los Angeles Lakers keep those EuroWeenies – they’re soft like women. And you can finish on their face to boot.
17 and Counting,
SEGreen
Jacob Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 7:06 pm
“I hope the other teams beef up to shut these arrogant pricks down.”
so stop us. its like in football…if u dont want to see the team celebrate then dont let them score.
like garnett said “Every great movie has to have an encore” i expect to be bad hear next year, lets hope the west can bring a little better competition.
eddie Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 7:56 pm
Kingsblade
Great blog!
Ovais Said,
June 20, 2008 @ 10:48 pm
I also don’t like this trend of players getting bought out in mid or late season and jumping from team to team. The NBA needs to clean that up.
and sorry for typo, game 6.
Glenn Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 12:38 am
However, Suns broadcaster and former NBAer Eddie Johnson said the influx of foreign-born players is “taking jobs away from American ballplayers.” Johnson: “I have no problem with putting a restriction (on foreign players) because this is our game” (”Outside The Lines,” ESPN, 1/27).
Could we discuss this?
Glenn Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 12:54 am
Kingsblade– I wrote a long response to you, but it was erased. Maybe I’ll try again tomorrow…
Josh Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 1:05 am
Ovais
Are you trying to be funny? Gasol was gift wrapped to LA in mid-season. Yeah stop all mid season trades and LA will get to keep Brown, that’s nice.
Josh Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 1:10 am
To all those who complained about Boston having 3 superstars:
I got something for you.
Celtics payroll — $74,831,989
Lakers payroll –$75,330,112
Tha’s called spending your money wisely.
If championships can be bought then the Knicks and Dallas will be in the finals. Anymore questions?
xose Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 2:14 am
Eddie… by the way, it sounds either xenophobic either ignorant
who knows… Bush rules, so I hope some day fish and men can win championships in the same team no matter where they were born, ocean or lake, ghetto or palace.
isiah 6 Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 3:16 am
[...] not seen since Detroit won back-to-back titles led by isiah Thomas. The Lakers are littered with …http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/2008/06/18/why-the-celtics-won/Now this is a dangerous part of town! Isiah Carey’s InsiteIsiah Carey describes the madness at [...]
Overlooked Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 7:14 am
Once again people fail to acknowledge a certain Rajan Rondo’s impact on this series… (sigh) When he plays tentative he misses/turns down shots he takes a lot of heat when they lose and when he plays great, 1,000 steals in game 6, they win the chip he doesn’t exist. keep in mind its only his 2nd yr in the league and he was running the show at point. Rebs, assist, points and defense. He has a nice career ahead of him.
squo Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 7:31 am
Refs truly favored home teams in the 2008 playoffs more than any other year statistically speaking.
Finals case in point: Game 2 of the NBA Finals had bench warmer Leon Powe go to the line more than the entire Laker team in 14 minutes, versus a total of 240 minutes.
squo Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 7:51 am
eddie, I’d love to play fantasy basketball against you. if you ain’t a flip-flopper, you would pick Shaq over Marion since you clearly believe the suns are far superior post-trade. Their offense looked real smooth with shaq at the freebie line well … right upto the 2 minute mark anyway.
Jacob Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 9:13 am
hell get his due, there are just bigger stories involved at celtics camp.
Dimitris Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 11:54 am
Hello Eddie.
I am a greek NBA and Suns fan. I really respect your opinions and your analysis of the game as i happen to hear you to all the home games of the Suns. I also had great respect for you as a player and i really never understood how a player of your caliber ever came to play to my country (LOL). But i will disagree with you about forgein players. I don’t think there is a basketball player in the world that is not aware of the Celtics - Lakers rivarly. And even if they are not aware they can really smell it come playoff time. For instance Gasol is from Spain. Real Madrid - Barcelona is perhaps the biggest rivarly in Sports. He played for Barcelona since he was a little kid. I am sure he knows about rivarlies and what they mean to the fans. Think about yourself. When you were playing for Olympiakos did’t they tell you that the most important game of the season was the one with Panathinaikos? You had already played 13 seasons in the NBA, so i guess you already knew about great rivarlies and you got the point (You had amazing games against Panathinaikos and you made me sad LOL).
In my opinion it had nothing to do about forgein players but about a team and certain players that wanted to be champs really really bad and at this particular series they were better prepared and totally deserved the win.
Keep writing articles often Eddie. I really enjoy hearing form you. I also hope one day the Suns win the champ with you on the bench.
Kingsblade Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 12:35 pm
Demitrius,
Your example actually helps make Eddie’s point. Of course Gasol was aware that the rivalry existed. However, as you explained yourself, he grew up wanting to beat Real Madrid. He spent a large part of his life around that rivalry, and as a result I would bet that winning the ACB against Real Madrid would mean more to Gasol than winning the NBA against the Celtics.
If the ACB had the same level of competition and had as much money available as the NBA I am of the opinion that Gasol would still be there. Does that mean I don’t think he was trying? No, of course he was trying, but I cannot see him bringing the same emotion to bear against Boston that he would against Madrid.
Can you really see him being as emotional after winning an NBA title as he was in 2001 after winning the ACB against their rival? I can’t.
I like Gasol quite a bit as a player, and I think he has been unfairly treated since they lost. I think he is playing out of position and could be extemely effective with a big body beside him. However I do not for one second believe that winning the NBA means the same thing to him as it does to a guy like Kobe Bryant, or Jordan Farmar, or Derek Fisher.
Another example is Kirilenko. There is a guy that works hard, and tries to do his best, but who the hell was that guy who was the MVP of EuroBasket 2007? He has never put up that kind of emotional effort for any NBA game.
Kingsblade Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 12:37 pm
Overlooked,
Good point. When Rondo plays well the Celtics are completely untouchable. If he can develop a solid consistency level they should have no problem repeating.
Kingsblade Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 12:51 pm
Glenn,
We are talking about what was said in this artlcle, and the quote you provided does not apply. It might show Eddie’s opinion on THAT subject, but it has no bearing on what was actually said right now.
That being said, I will briefly address your SECONDARY topic…why is it ok for every other league in the world limit the number of foreign players, but if someone suggests the NBA do it they are sudenly racists?
In fact, as a member of USA Basketball, by rights the league should do exactly that to focus on US basketball players development. However I do not think it would be the right move.
I believe that if the NBA limited foreign players then they would lose the right to automatically consider themselves the best league in the world. It would then be a league just like every other one, perhaps with a larger talent pool, but not any different otherwise.
Eric Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 2:16 pm
Why is Kobe Bryant seeming to get a pass on this years NBA Finals? His performance was very dissapointing to say the least! His teamates were the one’s recieving the blame all series long, even though Kobe was not playing up to his capable standards. I wonder if any of his teamates during the series were thinking to themselves, your not playing all that well either, so stop yelling at me and stop blaming me in post game news conferences. Kobe shot 40% and averaged 25ppg (7points below his 2008 playoff average). Game 3 to me was the only game I saw brilliance. He would not allow his team to lose that night, but other than that he struggled.
Kobe yells at his teamates and stares them down for mistakes during games, but did not back it up with his own performance on the floor. For the record I have no problem with the way Kobe rips into his teamates, but if your going to be that type of leader (for example MJ) then you better dominate on the biggest basketball stage there is.
Lamont Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 3:10 pm
Whats up Eddie…
Compliments to the article…
I am a Laker fan…love that purple and gold, but I’m not stupid and have a good feeling of reality. I believe the Suns will be a better foe next season; a better foe than the Lakers. Right now, the Lakers are too much of a finesse team. When the Lakers had Shaq, automatically, teams knew it would be a task defensivley and offensiveley dealing with the Lakers. They knew o and d rebounds were going to be hard to come. Basically would have to have a specific game plan to stay up with the Lakers. In other words, the Lakers need a threat down low. Even if Bynum comes back, I don’t see teams believing he’s going to stop them. I see teams taking it too Bynum.
For La to be successful, they need to trade!!! Teams will review the Celtics formula for shutting down LA Free agency will be very busy this offseason
eddie Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 4:27 pm
I would like all of you guys to go to espn.com and listen to Kevin Garnett go through the history of watching players celebrate championships. also listen to the passion of what winning it meant. thats what i am talking about.
i could never talk about the importance and history of winning the euro championship, but i bet Gasol, Radmanovic and Vujacic could.
thats why i wrote the article.
Ovais Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 6:38 pm
Josh, I’m not referring to mid-season trades. I’m referring to contract buyouts AFTER the trade deadline, a la Sam Cassell, Damon Stoudamire, Theo Ratliff, Brent Barry and Jamaal Magloire. The NBA should crack down on this phenomenon, as it turns title hungry players into locker room cancers.
weaponjay Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 7:21 pm
1 star, 2 stars, 3 stars or no stars (like Detroit), a championship is still a championship, there is no free ride. In the past there are lots of teams with more than 1 Superstar but still wasn’t able to win any title. Remember that basketball is a team game with 5 players on the floor, one or two persons cannot do it alone.
When the Lakers are running over the other Western powerhouses during the playoffs people are raving about the Lakers’s own big 3, why suddenly say that theirs is inferior to the Celtics’. The same can be said about their bench and coach. Why not just admit that the fakers… i mean the Lakers were defeated by the better team and that Kobe is still not yet ready to lead them to the Championship.
By the way, I really love the fact that some people are already thinking that the Lakers will be better and win it next season because of Bynum. This early they are placing a big expectation from the young fella so I expect him to be Odom part 2, hehehe!!!
Gene S Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 7:32 pm
I disagree about MVP only because Pierce was the only one to consistently — and in all 6 games — attack the paint to score. That opened things up for Ray Allen. You also fail to give Rajan Rondo enough credit. His quickness on defense and his vision on offense were crucial. With Rondo on the bench, Boston could be effective only by using 5 shooters, so LA could not trap.
I disagree about the “big”point guard. A dependable backup point guard — be it Pruitt or someone else — is a definite need. But the Celtics got by this year because each of the Big Three is a good ball handler and an excellent passer.
I’m not so sure about the backup center either. Powe and Davis are pretty good — and will get better — and they are not expensive. Perhaps a big rookie …
rajah Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 9:43 pm
The MSM doesn’t have the balls to write the obvious story. Pau is good, but his ability to contribute was hyped way beyond what was warranted–the MSM force-fed us the idea that Pau would be able to fill in for Bynum. We saw the results. The Lakers clearly suffered because they didn’t have Bynum.
Glenn Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 10:27 pm
Kingsblade–
Imagine you’ve invited a co-worker who is a different ethnicity from you to your family reunion. After an hour and a couple of drinks, he turns to you and, within earshot of some of your family members, nicely says, “wow, Kingsblade– your family sure is littered with lots of different types of people.” Answer honestly: does his phrasing it this way embarrass you, strike you as odd, or does him using the word “littered” seem perfectly unobjectionable?
Imagine reading an end of year business report from the president of your company that starts like this:
“I am very happy to report that our tough and resilient company, which has no minorities in any management positions, has experienced a year of record profits! What does this mean? Well, judging from the way we manhandled our competition, I’d say hunger, pride, and toughness. Our company is led by three hardworking men who understand the market and have hungered for years to succeed…. The major company that we compete against is littered with employees from all over the world. Sure, they deserve to a chance to win a share of the market and it’s profits and glory, but as I’ve said before, they also deserve to be smacked around a little. Those who don’t grow up in an atmosphere of competitive business simply don’t have the same passion and toughness for business as those who’ve grown up in families where big business is discussed every morning and evening at the dinner table. Do kids growing up in the ghetto overhear their parents talking about the stock exchange and fluctuations in the market? Probably not. This is not to say that minorities should be kept out of the business world, or that some of them can’t succeed, but at this point they simply don’t have the same homegrown toughness with regards to business savvy. America has been the greatest economic force in the world for over a century, lead predominantly by the descendants of White Europeans.”
Imagine you are sitting there, knowing the company that outperformed your company last year has plenty of minorities. Now you tell me how this is different from what Eddie Johnson is writing?
D Mas Said,
June 21, 2008 @ 11:57 pm
If Radmanovic and Vujajic were filled with the highest amout of passion, toughness and pride imaginable in a human being, they would still not be better basketball players than Garnett or Pierce.
Iverson, Camby, and Melo understand the importance of the playoffs and are homegrown, but don’t have rings. The Celts play great team defense, just like the Spurs, Pistons, and Heat did in previous years. I think that’s why they won.
eddie Said,
June 22, 2008 @ 12:32 am
Glenn
what? are you kidding me! go read other articles around the country about the softness the Lakers played with and then being embarrased by 40 points in a pivotal game 6. the proof is there—you my friend are fighting it big time. This is about Sports and knowing the history of the game, not the social-ecomomic sector —give me a break. go to cnn and comment in the business section.
Kingsblade Said,
June 22, 2008 @ 1:38 am
Glenn,
Your analogy is so inane that I probably shouldn’t even reply to it directly.
Did you even play sports growing up? Because anyone who did would at least comprehend our point, even if they don’t agree. You have gone so far out to left field I can hardly believe it. You have attempted to combine so many unrelated points that you do not even make sense anymore.
You want a business example that applies? How’s this. You have a family business. It has been in your family for generations, and today you and some of your relatives are on the board. Along with you on the board are some outsiders that have been hired for their skill level who are all paid very well for their excellent work.
Now you company is going through a tough time. There is some serious competition with another company and there will be a major fight over some distribution rights or something (insert competitive issue here). Who do you think will fight harder to win, people with a vested interest in the company and its history like your family, or people who have a vested interest in their own careers. They will fight because they are good at what they do, and they will probably perform very well if they are good, but they will never have the emotional attachment to competing for their company that you and your family will have.
Flipping sides, if those same people had their own company and hired you it is unlikely you would give their company the emotional attachment that they would give it themselves.
I have been in basically this exact scenario, and it is simply how things work. I am a lawyer, I am a partner in our family firm, which was once my grandfathers firm and was then my fathers firm before I bought him out. At one point business was good so I brought in 4 more partners, (there are usually 10 of us). Without a long drawn out explanation I’ll just say that some things happened competitively and there were some hard times. It took only about 3 months of difficulty for those same 4 guys to bolt, but the rest of us who had been there all along stayed the course. All of us had very lucrative opportunities elsewhere, but the firm meant something to us. (I even had to sell the lakehouse I inherited to pay some bills). Now things are fine again, but that’s irrelevant.
My point is, those 4 guys were very very good lawyers, and were very dedicated to law, but my firm meant nothing to them except as a place to be lawyers. It was different for me.
Our point has nothing to do with Europeans as an ethnic group, or disliking foreign players, it has to do with the amount a person has invested into the competition. To a European the NBA is great, because it is where they get to be paid very well to play the game they love, but why would they care especially for the league itself? Gasol would still probably be more exited to suit up for Spain and win the Olympics than he ever would be to win the NBA. This would not be the case for ANY American NBA player. To them the NBA is all that matters. They want to win the Olympics, but that is absolutely secondary.
By the way….I should add that there are plenty of American players completely lacking in heart. I have seen very few Europeans in the NBA that don’t at least have a passion for the game itself, otherwise they would not have come over here. There are a number of American players who disappoint me much more because they do not seem to even have an appropriate love of the game….but even these guys would rather win the NBA title than the Olympics.
…and my family is MORE than littered with an odd assortment of people. I don’t see the point
Glenn Said,
June 22, 2008 @ 2:17 am
Kingsblade– I can see we’ll never agree, which is fine. But your analogy is not even close to being applicable. New guys at your law firm who are worried about going broke in a business that looks like it might collapse are not analogous to basketball players getting paid millions of dollars a year to play ball. A european player on a team fighting for the championship has no reason to look at his situation and decide it might be better to not stick around and do the best job possible.
Everyone’s family is full of odd assorted characters, but the word “littered” is definitely a strong indication of attitude and intent. No, not in the legal sense and not in a court of law, but in an obvious and pragmatic sense. When Senator Strom Thurmond got up to speak in front of the senate, he wasn’t dumb enough to simply shout, ‘Black people are stupid and I don’t want them around!” No– his mind was a little slicker than that. But no one with any common sense, after studying his history, would argue that Thurmond wasn’t a racist.
Spanish Said,
June 22, 2008 @ 6:40 am
Hi Eddie, from Spain.
I think your article analyses Game 6 rather than the finals.
Gasol soft? Yes, maybe, but please let’s check Garnett performance in the 5 first games.
I believe you all bought very easily Phil Jackson’s smoke curtain after Game6. Do we really think LA lost nba finals in Game 6? Finals were lost after collapse in Game 4. A collapse that, luckily for Phil, nobody seems interested in deeply comment.
Everything you say is about toughness and hunger is valid for Game 6, but, altough it was hard to lose by 40, all was setted by then.
Up to each one to reduce the finals happenings to lack of attitude, interest, history knowledge of foreign player.
Regards.
Michael Bennett Said,
June 22, 2008 @ 12:18 pm
Huh? This blog is starting to read like a strange sociology class.
I keep on thinking of that GMC commercial with the funny security guy that we saw so many times during the Finals. In particular, I’m thinking when he said “Basketball. Basketball. Basketball.”
eddie Said,
June 22, 2008 @ 12:27 pm
Michael
Kingsblade is educating the young man with great analogies and examples. i could not have explained it better. Nice to have a lawyer around especially to keep you in line (-:
Kingsblade Said,
June 22, 2008 @ 12:43 pm
Michael,
It reads even more like one when you show up. Specifically one I took as an undergrad called “Deviance and Social Control.”
Michael Bennett Said,
June 22, 2008 @ 12:50 pm
All I remember is Recess and Gym class. Deviant Kickball, anyone?
Chris Said,
June 22, 2008 @ 8:12 pm
Michael Bennett… when did you start talking so much.
kb- stay at the job your at now… wal-mart lmao/
others- If scottie pippen were on the lakers instead of gasol/odom the Lakers would have won the championship. With the addition of health bynum of course.
Jordan- greatest sg
Kobe- second
Michael Bennett… who does the Lebrick think is the best. Check the his youtube videos. Im pretty sure its Kobe.
Michael Bennett… shut up. U spend too much time on here.loser
Dantes Said,
June 22, 2008 @ 8:18 pm
Overlooked- Rondo’s career will go as far as the big three take him. His future isnt as bright as you may seem
Hammah Said,
June 22, 2008 @ 8:18 pm
What does Eddie Johnson know about toughness? Eddie Johnson choked just about every time I saw him play against Lakers in playoffs. With Phoenix, Seattle or Houston same ol’ clank and brick.
Lakers with Bynum will win rematch with Celtics. Just like in 1985.
Kingsblade Said,
June 22, 2008 @ 8:43 pm
Chris,
Seems like you are obsessing a bit over Michael Bennett.
What do you have against Wal-mart? Everyone watch out for the rapier wit of Chris. Congratulations your graduation from “I know you are but what am I?”
timmy Said,
June 22, 2008 @ 9:29 pm
Not sure why the discussion comes up about foreign players and being soft.
The number one reason why the Lakers lost is because Kobe didn’t step up at all.
Kobe choked BIG TIME.
I’m not a Lakers or Celts fan and have never been a fan of Kobe really, but watching the Finals made me almost feel sorry for the guy, what with all the comparisons to Jordan and laying such a massive egg.
Jorge Said,
June 23, 2008 @ 9:13 am
“There is a guy I know who plays for Manchester United.”
“There is no title he could win as a pro in Europe that would mean as much to him as it would to a European. Does he want to win? Damn right, to be the best, but the childhood dream had little to do with winning the German league, or the English Premier.”
Kingsblade:
Man, if somebody plays soccer and doesn´t dream to play for an elite team like United and doesn´t dream to win the premier league or the Champions league he shouldn´t be playing at all!
Allong with the Worl Cup it´s everything that you can and should dream of!! And it would mean as much to me as for any european!
I´ve played soccer my hole life and I could only dream of playing for a team like M.United!
By the way, I´m brazilian, so I know what to say about soccer.
And I also don´t think Edie said anything wrong agaisnt foreigner players like some people did….
Jorge Said,
June 23, 2008 @ 9:22 am
C Fatz:
Sorry if you felt like I was acusing you of being a Lakers fan, not what I wanted to….
I just don´t agree with people saying that the celtics got garnett for nothing when the lakers got gasol for less than nothing…..still, garnett is indeed better than gasol, but Al jefferson is way, WAY better than Kwame brown…..
Jorge Said,
June 23, 2008 @ 9:46 am
“One of my all-time favorite players is Oscar Schmidt”
KingsBlade:
Great post man, I totally agree with you on that.
It´s just different things basketball and soccer, soccer players in Brazil do dream of coming to europe an winning everything, money is an issue also…..I also think that it depends a lot from guy to guy….
Oscar Schmidt is a god here! The man did everything to his country and he would been one the greatest foreigners on the NBA all time! he was really that good! The man coud hit the basket from anywhere! I know the brazilian league sucks but after he came back from europe he played till 45 years and was still averaging 25 something a game!
Kobe idolizes him for the years he played on italy too!
Jorge Said,
June 23, 2008 @ 9:58 am
And Eddie, congrats on your post!
Any post that can generate this kind ok bus, is a good one! too bad someguys takes it the wrong way….
eddie Said,
June 23, 2008 @ 10:58 am
Jorge
thanks!
David Said,
June 23, 2008 @ 11:43 am
Kingsblade,
So you’re a lawyer??? I NEVER woulda guessed!!
Kingsblade Said,
June 23, 2008 @ 12:59 pm
Jorge,
I uderstand your poont about dreaming about going to Europe to win it all, but think about this:
Would a Brizilian player rather win the Premier League, the Primera, or the Bundesliga? I doubt it would matter all that much.
Of course it would meant he world for my friend to win in Europe, but my point is that for him it didn’t much matter where he went because going there was just the place he had to be to become the player he wanted to be. If there were a league in Canada as good as the leagues over there he would have stayed home.
He is an even more telling question: Would a Brazilian rather win the Champions league, or the World cup?
I think there is no question that a Brazilian footballer would choose winning a world cup over winning the champions league. This was my other point, I think that a lot of Foreign NBA players would choose winning an Olympic gold for their country over winning the NBA. For American players this is not the case. Yes they would like to win olympic gold, but if they were they could only win one or the other in their career almost every one of them would take the NBA championship instead.
Same thing occurs in Canada with hockey. Our players get killed in the media whenever they do not win gold at an international event, but if you were to poll Canadian players offering them olympic gold or a Stanley cup they would all take the stanley cup. This is not usually the case with europeans in the nhl. Most of them would choose the gold medal.
Interestingly though, this is starting to change because of the fact that many top european players are starting to come to canada very young to develop as hockey players. While they are growing up within Canadian hockey culture many are starting to show the passion for the cup that Canadian players do, and the change is quite obvious.
C Fatz Said,
June 23, 2008 @ 2:21 pm
change in theme here. the olympic committee has announced the 12 for the team.
I was afraid that both Dwyane Wade and Carmelo Anthony would make the team.
You can never have enough scorers right? Well maybe, but not at the cost of the other niceties that make winning Basketball possible. I think the lack of an under the basket enforcer will hurt this team. I likeoth DWade and ‘melo, but to have both on a team that is confined to 12 people is, in my opinion, a luxury.
Ball control i.e defense and rebounding are critical. Wade contributes another ballhandler, distributor (when he needs to be), as well as a scorer. This to me means ‘Melo should be the one stay home. I like Carmelo, but this team would benefit more from the presence of one more person who does basketballs dirty work. My first pick would be Tyson Chandler.
He brings defense, rebounding, shot blocking, energy AND will provide minutes off the bench for Dwight Howard and Chris Bosh. All this, plus he won’t complain when he doesn’t have the ball in his hands.
Alternately, Tim Duncan, Chris Kaman, Elton Brand, Al Horford, David Lee, Al Jefferson all provide what this team needs more of this summer. (Andrew Bynum, Kevin Garnett, and Amare Stoudamire also bring what this team needs but each has issues preventing them from joining the team. )
One last thing, the non-inclusion of Mike Miller and his butter smooth 3 point shooting could potentially come back to bite this team in the Dairy-Air.
P Lewis James Said,
June 23, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
To all you Laker fans I will say it again. Your team is soft as warm cocoa butter. The addition of Bynum will help, however it is not the entire answer. Keep in mind Laker fans the stars where aligned for you this year. You avoided the Suns, with a highly motivated Shaq.
Who on the Lakers could discourage the lighting quick forays into the paint by one Chris Paul. You are not a championship team with or with out Andrew Bynum. Until this teams accquires some toughness, and dedicate themselves to playing defense,another trip to the NBA finals will be a long time coming.
David Said,
June 23, 2008 @ 2:52 pm
C Fatz,
You’re right. That’s what happened 4 years ago when they kept Battier instead of Bowen. We got killed on the pick and roll, which Bowen defends very well.
If we keep sending nothing but “stars”, who does the dirty work?
Jorge Said,
June 23, 2008 @ 3:12 pm
Kingsblade, I got your point now and I agree…..international players would prefer to win the olympics no doubt, just ask ginobilli…..
David Said,
June 23, 2008 @ 3:23 pm
Kingsblade, I agree.
Jorge, Bad example.
Michael Bennett Said,
June 23, 2008 @ 11:35 pm
Eddie - Are you friends with Jalen Rose? Or, does he frequent this blog?
Tonight, on the PreDraft Show on ESPN, he talked about foreign players and the differences in growing up your whole life looking at the NBA, and the like… almost exactly what you were talking about here for the last few days.
This all led me to believe that much like any business, there’s gossip, the ‘word on the street’, the inside track… whatever you want to call it. Sometimes being on the inside is good for tips, knowledge, etc. But, sometimes it leads to elitism. I think that you, Eddie, have always been fair to the fan here on this blog. So, I don’t think that’s the case with you. But, sometimes these ‘NBA Experts’ on TV or radio or blogosphere think they know everything. The reality is that they’re sometimes sooo wrong about some things because they there’s no perspective.
Answers? Comments? Questions? Insults?
Kingsblade Said,
June 24, 2008 @ 12:40 am
I’m not certain ‘elitism’ is the right word, but ‘no perspective’ hits the nail on the head. Certainly when Jalen Rose is speaking anyways.
I think that something important to keep in mind is that while generalizations can be made and can be useful, they are not universally applicable. The beauty of perspective is it allows you to see the exceptions to a generalization.
An example of this was the ‘good’ Sacramento teams and Vlade Divac (Though I may be biased by my love of Divac). It always seemed to me that Vlade was able to man up for the playoffs much more than a guy like Webber, while Stojakovic filled his role, as foreign player who doesn’t care enough, to a tee. Yet I have astonishingly heard Divac referred to as soft.
When a person is so ingrained by basketball culture to see things a certain way they will probably always see it that way, even the exceptions.
That brings to mind a past discussion on here where Eddie claimed that Chip Engelland could never be a great shooting coach (or for that matter a great shooter) because he had never played in the NBA, no matter how much success his coaching techniques have had.
(See how I turned on you like that Eddie? Sorry)
Michael Bennett Said,
June 24, 2008 @ 11:29 am
By the way… Did anybody get an answer from Kobe as to how Shaq’s @ss tastes?
Kingsblade Said,
June 24, 2008 @ 1:30 pm
I would really hate to find out.
Michael Bennett Said,
June 25, 2008 @ 2:07 pm
Kingsblade - I hope you know what I’m referencing in my last post. If you followed basketball related news, you’d know about (and would have seen) the Shaq freestyle rap video. Hello? Anyone home?
Kingsblade Said,
June 25, 2008 @ 3:25 pm
Oh I know what your talking about, but if you don’t know what I mean when I say I would hate to find out what Shaq’s ass tastes like then you have bigger problems than I thought.
Michael Bennett Said,
June 25, 2008 @ 5:32 pm
…took a turn for the worse…
Kingsblade Said,
June 25, 2008 @ 6:47 pm
why would you expect any different?
David Said,
June 26, 2008 @ 9:46 am
Does anybody wonder about this?? WHen I left last night, the number of posts here was 187. This morning, it was at 202, but really only 2 more than last night.
What happened to the other 13 posts?
Am I missing the Michael Bennett/Kingsblade banter due to censorship??
Michael Bennett Said,
June 26, 2008 @ 11:55 am
David - You missed a bloodbath… Eddie even got involved and called someone a ‘jerk’, which shook the ground.
Actually, no… Nothing was deleted that I wrote, and I’m pretty sure Kingsblade’s post weren’t deleted.
Maybe it’s a technical error. They seem to happen with computers every once in a while.
David Said,
June 26, 2008 @ 12:12 pm
I actually enjoy it when y’all go at it — it’s 2 people arguing that aren’t me and my wife
I have, however, heard other bloggers refer to posts that were “deleted” so I got to wondering…
ANy takes on the draft tonight?
Michael Bennett Said,
June 26, 2008 @ 1:03 pm
I think OJ Mayo is/will be the best player in the draft. As a Bulls fan, I’d like to have a superstar back in Chicago with a great sidekick (Deng it!) and a good supporting cast and bench. I just don’t think it’s realistic, though. Derrick Rose will go #1 and he’ll be a pretty good fit for Da Bulls. But, I don’t think he’ll be a Chris Paul or Deron Williams like a lot of people expect or want.
Beasley is a really good player with an Elton Brand-like (with 3 pt range) future. But, I don’t know if he’s a good fit for Miami or Chicago. He’ll fit in nicely with the TWolves, but that’s assuming that Al Jeff will play center. I think that’s a pretty good 4 and 5, though.
I’m sooo excited for the Draft. This is Christmas in July… er, June.
Ovais Said,
June 27, 2008 @ 3:20 pm
SE Green, Your comments are as deplorable and unintelligible as KG’s. Grow up.
Kingsblade Said,
June 27, 2008 @ 10:00 pm
Glenn,
I don’t know if you are still poking around to read this, but I just bothered reading your response to my earlier analogy and found it amusing enough to post about.
1. You really call my analogy non-applicable for those reasons after the analogy you just gave before me? Awesome. I love it when a person suddenly becomes dereft of logic.
2. You miss the point of it entirely. I can tell because of the reasons you gave for claiming my analogy is not applicable.
The point was motivation. The hard times was not the issue. You seem to think that they were worse than they were, because those guys were not losing money and it was not a sinking ship, I didn’t get into that BECAUSE IT DID NOT MATTER TO THE ANALOGY.
The point was motivation. The firm meant more to us because we had been involved with it our whole lives, those guys were newcomers and just wanted somewhere to practice law. There was nothing more to it, so the professions and relative incomes of those involved are irrelevant.
Maybe you should try looking at the actual point of a comment instead of immediately trying your hardest to argue with it.
Kingsblade Said,
June 27, 2008 @ 10:02 pm
got that out of the way…
Bennett
Why do you think Mayo is the best player in the Draft? He is the only one of the top 5 I have not seen play, so I’m not being facetious, just curious.
Michael Bennett Said,
June 28, 2008 @ 11:13 am
Well, Kingsblade, let me explain…
I did see him play, a lot, living in SoCal. And, he was very consistent, and very good. He’s a guy that’s effective with or without the ball on offense. He’s a slasher at times, he can spot up and shoot, he can take it hole strong, he finishes with ferocity. He has a great jump shot and can/will hit NBA 3s with no problem. He’s a 2 guard, but he says he can play point. That’s his pitch - I think he’s a born 2, just a really good passer. Then…
Defense. He’s 6′5″, 205, so he’s going to have no problem matching up with Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade - he’s their size. So, the nights when the Grizz play one of these teams, we’ll all be in for a treat. And, he can also guard the point if necessary. He can match players like Derrick Rose, Chauncey Billups and Deron Williams for strength AND quickness.
I’ve been watching Mayo for five or so years - ever since SI ran the seventh grade article. And, what amazes me about someone in that situation is the poise and composure even after all the scrutiny. And I’m talking about ON THE COURT composure. He plays smooth, cool, under control, and he has one of those Games that translate better in the NBA. His numbers will be better in the League than they were in college (not to say 20, 4 and 3 is bad). I think he’ll start off with 19, 4 and 4, and just keep improving every year for the next ten.
Plus, he’s playing with a budding PG in Mike Conley, and a rising star in Rudy Gay. That makes for a really good, young team that has potential. I think they’ll do this year what the Blazers did last year - the Grizz will surprise some people.
Michael Bennett Said,
June 30, 2008 @ 11:33 pm
Eddie - Get off your butt and write a post about the draft!!!