First round ramblings
I must admit that I am extremely disappointed that we are not seeing more competitive series so far. I thought this could be a playoff season where we would have at least three or four series go seven games deep. I never thought it might involve the Atlanta Hawks and the Philadelphia 76ers.
The Eastern Conference, much maligned during the year, is giving us the most thrills while the West has been quite boring and uneventful.
But it’s not over yet!
San Antonio Spurs vs. Phoenix Suns
The Suns were unable to accomplish something no team has ever been able to do and that is win a series after being down 0-3. This series will become an example for every coach to preach to its team about the importance of playing 48 minutes to secure victory. The Suns have every right to believe this series should at least been longer, just based on the blown opportunities in games 1 and 5.
Tony Parker and Boris Diaw grew up together and are best friends and played key roles. Ironically it took Boris to cool Parker down in the Suns’ Game 4 win, in which Parker refused to say Boris had any effect on him. Parker proved it with a huge plays down the stretch in Game 5 and was the best player in the series.
The sad line in this series is the fact Grant Hill could not play at full strength. Hill worked all year to get back to the playoffs after signing as a free agent. Life is never fair and if any player deserves good health and a chance at an NBA title, that’s Grant Hill.
Los Angeles Lakers vs. Denver Nuggets
The Nuggets are in a sad state. How can so much talent be so bad together? George Karl is a very good coach, but he changed his combative attitude at the wrong time and his players proved inept at leadership.
The me-first attitude of the Nuggets would not allow them to be competitive against the unselfish Lakers and they were swept and embarrassed. Carmelo Anthony claimed the Nuggets quit after Game 3, but what he fails to realize is that he and Allen Iverson quit on their team every time they hold the ball for eight seconds of the shot clock and hoist up tough shots when a teammate stands wide open.
The Nuggets are too talented to be a two-man show and there the problem lies.
The Lakers are in a serious groove and if Kobe continues to play at this insane level, it will be difficult for anyone to beat them.
Houston Rockets vs. Utah Jazz
The Rockets are fighting as hard as any team can, but it will not be enough without Yao Ming. Tracy McGrady has played extremely well despite a bad leg and constant double and triple teams. Deron Williams has been the best player in the series and continues to get better.
The Rockets big win in Game 5 has given them hope, but the Jazz are stellar at home and a Rocket victory will be tough.
Rick Adelman and Jerry Sloan should be applauded for developing role players and having the confidence to play them. We are seeing players like Paul Millsap and Ronnie Brewer for the Jazz and Carl Landry and Chuck Hayes for the Rockets be big contributors in this series.
New Orleans Hornets vs. Dallas Mavericks
OK, I was wrong by saying the Hornets would suffer because of experience. They have looked like the more confident team. The Mavericks have proved again that pressure is not their friend. The last three years have been a test of pressure and they have continued to fail. The Hornets close-out of the Mavericks in five games looked extremely easy. Dirk Nowitzki wanted the Hornets. I guess you should watch what you wish for.
What is up with Josh Howard? I once thought the stupidest statement I would ever hear was Latrell Sprewell saying he did not like the Minnesota Timberwolves offer of $21 million because he had to feed his family. Josh Howard just bypassed Sprewell with his statement of marijuana use in the offseason and stating the fact that everyone knows NBA players use it.
I am wondering how Howard could be thinking of coming clean about his drug use and also throwing the NBA under the bus while being down 0-2 in a series. That 26 percent shooting shooting by Howard in the series will not help his cause either.
Boston Celtics vs. Atlanta Hawks
The Celtics have just entered the twilight zone. Winning 66 games during the season guarantees you nothing. The Celtics look tired and confused and better solve Joe Johnson and Josh Smith soon or they will become this year’s Dallas Mavericks.
The Hawks are a better defensive team than the Celtics realized and now they are searching for answers back in Boston.
Mike Woodson has done a great job all year with the Hawks and now it’s paying dividends. Maybe now management will back off and realize Woodson is one of the best young coaches in the league. Word has it that Woodson wanted the Hawks to draft Chris Paul or Deron Williams instead of Marvin Williams. I hate to imagine how good they would be if management listened to that plea.
The Celtics are playing with fool’s gold if they think all they have to do is show up. They have done it with defense all year and now they are trying to outscore the Hawks.
Detroit Pistons vs. Philadelphia 76ers
I feel so sorry for Flip Saunders. He has the best and worst situation of any coach in the league. On one hand, he has a talented veteran team that understands the game and knows how to win. Then on the other hand, he has a group of guys that think they know everything and are beyond instruction.
That’s the view I get when I watch the Pistons play. They play with no emotion and as George Karl would say, “They play with a coolness that disrespects the game of basketball.” They have not taken the 76ers seriously and now they find themselves in a long series against a team they should have dispatched easily.
The 76ers, on the other hand, are exciting and loaded with exceptional athletes. Andre Miller is having his best year of his career and has been the best guard in the series so far.
Maybe Detroit’s Game 5 blowout win will get the team more focused.
Orlando Magic vs. Toronto Raptors
When Dwight Howard is playing at this level, he immediately becomes the best big man in the NBA. The Raptors had no answer for him and that makes the Magic a serious threat to reach the Finals. The Magic’s size advantage with Hedo Turkoglu and Rashard Lewis at the forwards was too much for the Raptors.
The Raptors did not live up to expectations, but they have a solid future ahead of them and Sam Mitchell should be safe for a few more years.
Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Washington Wizards
This series has been hampered by all the smack talk between LeBron James and the whole Wizards team.
The Wizards have failed to realize you must play instead of yapping. The latest is Brendan Haywood saying LeBron should stop whinning and expect to get hit. I agree with Haywood in that LeBron should just play and not worry about the physical play, but if I was still playing I would be glad LeBron is whining because that would mean he wouldn’t have extra time to whoop my butt even more than he already is.
Message to the Wizards: Let that man alone. The angrier he gets, the better he gets. LeBron is the best specimen the game has seen since Karl Malone and he will hurt you before you hurt him. Just play and see if you can win a road game.
Michael Bennett Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 11:18 am
I got the Hornets wrong, too. But, it wasn’t because of experience. I just thought they couldn’t handle the big 3s of all the other West Playoff teams.
I don’t agree with the firing of Mike D’Antoni. He’s a really good coach who’s approach to the game was unique and revolutionary. This year, it was the players fault as much as his. You have to guard Tony Parker… on the floor. These individuals must step up and play D. It’s that simple.
And, I don’t get why people think LeBron is ‘whining’. He hasn’t been complaining at all. He’s been winning. He doesn’t even talk about it. Eddie, you just took what Haywood and Stevenson have said and believed it. The Cavs are up 3-1, going to close the series tonight in 5 games. And, LeBron is the reason. So, how is that whining? How is he ’smack talking’? He’s not. HE’s playing. The Wizards are smack talking. He’ll score close to triple-dub tonight to end the series. Wait. That’s every night close to a triple-double.
Vin Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 12:33 pm
I think it all boils down to defense. Houston is undermanned and injured, but still hanging in there because they play great team defense. Guys like Battier & Landry are not big stars, but do all the unglamorous things that need to be done in order to win. Everyone on New Orleans plays defense, especially Chandler and Paul. Everyone on San Antonio plays D. Atlanta features a young center in Horford who focuses on defense, and one of the best shotblockers in the game in Josh Smith. Philly’s Sam Dalembert is a defense-first big man and Iggy is a great defender. So all the wins or surprises stem from D. But take a look at the other side: Dallas is a team built around a star in Dirk not known for defense. Denver has last year’s defensive player of the year in Camby, but he is on the court with two stars not known for their defensive discipline. Phoenix is built around two stars in Nash and Amare not known as defenders. Here’s a question teams should ask themselves: When was the last time the nba championship was won by a team that was known for scoring, but not for defense? The Spurs, Heat, Pistons, Lakers, Jordan’s Bulls, Hakeem’s Rockets, Detroit’s bad boys…. all good defensive squads. People may get tired of hearing it, but defense wins championships.
Matt Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 12:44 pm
Eddie, I enjoy reading your articles, but you and every other writer need to stop pampering Grant Hill. Sure he is a nice guy and was a gifted athlete before his injuries. But everybody writes off how he jobbed Orlando. He made a ton of money doing absolutely nothing, promised to play for the veteran minimum and then split. Frankly, I think the Suns as a team are more deserving of a title than Grant Hill.
None of the coaches should be fired. The Suns problem is not the trade, its finishing, specifically Boris Diaw. They won game 4 because he was not afraid to shoot. I don’t understand how you go 22 8 8 and be scared to shoot in the end game, he should have rolled baseline and gone up with the left on Manu.
The Nuggets should have pulled the trigger on the Artest trade before the deadline. You want defense and intensity, thats a 2 for 1. They wouldnt have lost anything too valuable and it would have been a perfect short term season fix.
Here’s what you want to keep your eye on; Josh Smith this offseason. He is a restricted free agent.
Hoops D Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
I told you that Dallas was a broken down pony. Kidd brought more negatives than positives, and how about Howard throwing a “We’re going fishing party” before game 5. If Cheeks can instill a hit-them-in-the-mouth mentality in his young team they can pull this off. And what about those HAWKS? Someone must have put the old CD in the player, Fly like an Eagle, cuz the dirty birds are circling the C’s. Now on a sad note, someone tell Melo to stop pointing his finger cuz when you do, there’s four pointing at you. They should have pulled the trigger on the Artest trade and they would still be ballin’. Hollar.
bballer Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
yeah grant hill is a nice guy, but if he was smart he should have went to the spurs to win a ring. the same with cwebb and karl malone. i guess only finley could handle being a role player with the spurs as opposed to those three guys. i will never doubt my spurs again. i would love to see thibodeau in phx. plus, it is time for the suns to draft their pg and trade for their centre of the future. could patrick o’bryant become chandler like?
vasilis Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 1:17 pm
>I got the Hornets wrong, too. But, it wasn’t because of experience. I just thought they couldn’t handle the big 3s of all the other West Playoff teams.
it’s the myth of Peja’s ‘bad’ defense
every year after the first 2 in sacramento people say it and every year
he holds his ground.. NO’s defense is maybe the best in the west right now..
Porky Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 1:32 pm
Pretty lame comments overall. Why not predict some games, pal? Lets start with Celts who will blow out Hawks tonight and regain their greatness,
Gordon Gund Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 1:43 pm
I didnt read who wrote this article, but when i read the Cavs/Wizards section, I knew it had to be the one and only EJ. Making stabs at LeBron James by giving him backhanded compliments I seem to remember Michael Jordan talking about how the Pistons are the “dirtiest team in basketball”, and saying “To them, a hard foul is a foul that can hurt you”.
V link to quotes V
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1127043/index.htm
I guess there has never been a more “hated” player though, So I guess its expected to be sold short, and have things blown out of proportion. Can someone show me where LeBron actually complained? He was asked if he thinks Haywood pushed him on purpose, he said “It wasnt a basketball play, and he did it on purpose.” He said this when he was asked about it, he didn’t just bring it to everyones attention, did he actually complain?
eddie Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 2:05 pm
Porky
i predicted them in a prior article. Go find it.
melvin Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 2:31 pm
im gonna predict the mavs,suns would fire their respective coaches! anyway the nuggets really suck balls…. they dont really blend well and they ddnt follow my guide on how to stop the black mamba http://basketballnonsense.blogspot.com/2008/04/how-do-you-stop-black-mamba.html
jr Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 2:32 pm
To Eddie Johnson: What a lame comments on the SPURS-SUNS series.
Have some class and give the SPURS credit as a team. While you say the Suns have the right to believe this series should have gone longer, yes , that’s true but swallow a some humble pie and give the champs credit for a change. They did outplay, outsmart, outheart the Suns in this series. You said it would be Suns in six games. Even some of the Suns players and coach themselves gave the SPURS credit except for Shaq. He was emabarassed and that’s understandable. The SPURS are just the plain definition of a class organization and team.
The Suns have great talent, all they need is better chemistry and mental toughness.
Kata Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 3:47 pm
I agree with jr.
Even nash and amare were gracious in defeat. the spurs won in five, and have now beaten the suns in four straight playoff series. Grant Hill is a class guy, but bringing him up is lame. That’s like a spur fan saying, “if only Oberto had played better than we would have swept…” The spurs obviously do something right after ten years of winning. Give them some credit.
Porky Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 4:00 pm
No, I have better things to do than find your predictions, pal.
Brian Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 4:03 pm
Mello is a blackhole on offense…always has been and I can’t see that changing. He isn’t good enough to justify being a blackhole either. I think he is a losing cause when it comes to winning. He reminds me of a very good Antoine Walker that doesn’t particulary jack 3’s. Just the mentality they both had and have. The logical thing to do is continue with Carmello considering he is still young…personally, I’d rather trade him away for great young talent and high draft picks. I don’t care for offensive blackholes…they limit a teams success. Kobe, Lebron, Pierce, Wade, Prince, Iggy…they all have something in common, they don’t feel the need to constantly hold the ball and when they do, they are able to effectively create opportunities for teammates.
Jeremy Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 4:13 pm
“The SPURS are just the plain definition of a class organization and team.”
So, a “class” organization employs hack-a-Shaq in the first quarter? Sorry, the Spurs are the opposite of classy, what with all the cheap tricks, flopping, and whining on the court. Poppovich knows how to win, now he just needs to learn how to win with basketball.
As a Suns fan, this first round was certainly disappointing, but Amare and Nash’s remarks about D’Antoni going to Diaw in games 4 and 5 were the most troubling part. They should have been happy they finally found an efficient offensive attack on the Spurs rather than moping about it.
Jacob Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 4:23 pm
matt - if you are blaming boris diaw for the suns fall i got news for you, you need to watch the series. never in a series should the 4-6th best player be blamed for the loss…
where was steve nash in this series? i havent even heard or seen anything about him , he disappeared and if it wasn’t for amare this would have been 4 blowouts instead of the five game series.
Jacob Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 4:23 pm
porky - eddie was right on with the celtics.(so far) but i guess u dont have anything better to do then come on here and leave witty remarks.
Jacob Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 4:25 pm
i guess what we are seeing is that coaching plays a huge role come playoffs…
pop over d’antoni
scott over avery
phil over karl
Ben Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 5:00 pm
“No, I have better things to do than find your predictions, pal.”
I don’t get it, Porky. Are you trying to convince us you’re lazy, or dumb? It takes more effort to search a blog repeatedly than find a hyperlinked article.
Eddie stepped up and defended his predictions, don’t forget that much of the early criticism came from the Bostonians, where are you guys now? I hope the Hawks come out with a huge chip on their shoulders and get physical—physical.
Zaza-binks!
Ezequiel França Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 5:02 pm
Hi Eddie, how are you ? I m brazilian and this is my first comment here. I m a long time reader of your articles and I just wish they to be released more often. I m a long time knicks fan too and I was discussing about the ’step-superstars’ like dirk, melo and maybe t-mac.
Did you count how many rings the top 30 salaries in the league have ? All seasons that I can remember the system won the title. Not the players alone. I think its time to GM think about to hire a good coach, build a roster with good role players that play D and some players that can play hard and understand the game.
Billups, Hamilton, Prince, Sheed, Bigben, Parker, Bowen, Ginobili even Duncan, Kobe. These players have rings and play the right way, know his roles and can carry the piano and do the dirt work, if asked.
What do you think about it ?
I m just tired of that ’superstar’ talking, with players that are stars only in his salaries.
BRockin25 Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 5:02 pm
Good read.
It doesnt matter how high of a level Dwight Howard has played at…he hasnt done anything that would make him surpass Duncan
Do you think the Suns series would have been different if Diaw started every game?
Richard Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 5:04 pm
I’ve been a Spurs fan for awhile. I’ve watched for years as experts pick defending CHAMPS over their respective opponents, except for the Spurs. Any year after the Spurs have won the title they have been pretty much the underdog atleast in comparison to other defending champs. Granted, they haven’t repeated so helping to make their case for that reason alone is valid but as I said after last year’s Finals, the Spurs will repeat.
I have concerns about every opponent the Spurs will likely face but I am overwhelmingly in favor of this year’s team finally repeating as champs.
Dallas should have uhauled their team instead of uhauling their coach but I guess Cuban’s relationships with his head coach will suffer as long as he stays so involved and not allow his shadow to cast so heavily on his franchise. Has anyone watched the diagram created by Utah, that the Spurs are perfecting. Keep a good coach and rid yourself of players that aren’t ready to make the leap to championship level, only if you have the support of the franchise player(s).
D’Antoni, what can I say. Maybe give this team another year but injuries was always the main factor with the Suns getting Hill and O’Neal. Come to find out the Suns problems were the same as last year’s. Didn’t every game post interview with the Suns players and coach sound exactly like last years? I swear it was deja vu. They need a bench and some toughness outside of Shaq and Raja.
Raymond Sebond Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 5:27 pm
I think both the Mavericks and Suns panicked at the trade deadline. Both made trades that needed to bring an immediate championship, or they’d be doomed to failure. Dallas lost their best perimeter defender in Harris and most intimidating interior defender in Diop. Plus it was two young guys for one old guy. The gamble taken by the Suns didn’t work out and now they have to pay Shaq 40 million over the next two years. At his rate of steady decline, Shaq will probably average about 10 ppg and 5 rpg come 2009.
People criticized the lakers for trading Shaq, but look how it has worked out: they got Odom and Butler in return. They traded Butler for Kwame, which was a mistake, but recovered by trading Kwame’s expiring contract (with a few other things) for Pau. In essence, the Lakers replaced Shaq with Odom and Gasol, and that’s a pretty good deal. They also didn’t panic regarding the development of Bynum.
The Spurs tweaked their team by adding Udoka and Kurt Thomas– again, no panic, and now they’ll have something like 15 million in cap space to use this off season.
Novio Magus Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 6:01 pm
Eddy, the suns got me fooled too. Quite a feath considering I mailed you a question (before the shaq-trade) in which way Nash’ lack of D (and Amares for that matter) hurt this team. I claimed they dont stand a chance as long as those 2 make everybody play out of position because they cant hold their man in check.
Also, with all the rumors around D’Antoni swirling around do you think some players will get traded too. I’m thinking Barbosa here for someone like Jamal Crawford.
Krassen Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 7:18 pm
1. ATL is a 37-win team, yet they have the same home record as the 52-win Magic team?!… I have no explanation for this, considering that they have the most disinterested fan base in the league, but the point is that if the Cs don’t panic they should be OK. So far ATL have shown that they cannot even stay close on the road, so they have no chance, even if this goes to seven.
2. Last night the Rockets finally figured what they have to do against the bigger Jazz: more movement and faster movement. Eddie, I know you are a fan of Aaron Brooks, I expected more from him this series, exactly because of his quickness. He has disapointed. As it is, the Rockets have absolutely no answer for Deron and it will be tough for them to win again in SLC. Tough, but not impossible…
3. There is this belief around the league that Bonzi Wells is a Ginobli-killer, based on a Sacramento-Spurs series from a few years ago. It will be interesting to see if he will be used more against the Spurs. I am not a big Bonzi fan, I don’t think he is very efficient with the ball, however, he is a unique talent: very strong and tenacious rebounder for a guard…
MJG Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 7:22 pm
Suns were just overrated again. Happens every year. The difference now is that they won’t be in a position to fool anyone for the next 2 years, because they are stuck with Shaq and his $20 million salary for that period of time. If I were a Suns fan, the thing I would be most pissed about is that although they have always been a tissue-paper team, at least they were exciting to watch run up and down the court. Now the team plays ugly and they lose anyway.
Trade Barbosa for Jamal Crawford? They are both no-defense chuckers, what would be the point?
mj3020 Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 7:51 pm
The whole D’Antoni thing is interesting to me. I don’t think he’s a good head coach. I do think he’s a good assistant. He can’t figure out how to get players to play defense…..they have never improved. The players don’t listen. Yet, he was given a team that doesnt really have any good defenders. Marion was decent….Bell is overrated…Nash? lol well we know how he does…..Amare is simply lazy on that end…shaq is too old…. Its not totally his fault he has garbage defenders….that falls on management. They gave him players that just want to score and don’t have the mental disposition to play hard on both ends of the court. So do you fire him or let him have one more year in which THEY WILL FAIL….either way he’s screwed….they will fire him this year or next. The franchise is toast for at least a few years…gotta get rid of those big contracts like nash/shaq/diaw…..so its pretty ugly from a future standpoint….oh well….they made their bed….now they can suck it up and sleep in it.
Jose Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 8:01 pm
Eddie, long time suns fan. Definately hurt to watch us go down again last night, thanks for toughing it out and still doing the game with the sore throat and all. I like Marjely but you’re the best at color. What are your thoughts on D’Antoni? Also I think Barbosa has to go this summer. I love the kid, fantastic talent, just doesn’t have the toughness that is needed. He shrinks in big moments, that’s just the truth. Also don’t want to make excuses, but hack a shaq is a horrible way to lose a game (again not the only reason we lost but…) it’s a gimmick, and it’s not basketball in the least. Lastly, it was interesting how quickly stern forgot about enforcing his rules when players got on the floor in ATL-BOS series
Michael Bennett Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 8:10 pm
I love LeBron James, but he and the Cavs should be ashamed of their lack of effort tonight. Totally and completely unforgivable.
What they did tonight was a disservice to all the Cleveland fans and anyone who loves the game of basketball.
Chad Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 8:13 pm
I’d like to thank Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki for wasting three of our NBA league MVPs. Nash a whpping 10 points and 3 assists. What a joke. Now if D’Antoni leaves then Nash will never average over 9 assists again. Please keep these losers out of the hall of fame for producing four out of 12 good years in their careers. I’d also like to thank Shaq for destroying Phoenix now and for the next 2 years, and Nash will ultimately be retired in 3.
Chad Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 8:18 pm
Paul is a great player, but lets see what he does against bruce bowen and the Spurs. Spurs in 6
Zane Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 8:49 pm
WIZARDS OUGHTA SHUT THE F**K UP!!!!
They got 3 all-stars versus 1 and Lebron is just killing them and still they can’t learn to shut up! Haywoods taunts p*****d me off big time, him, Arenas and Stevenson should go get some game before they talk that sh*t.
LBJ just torched you in your own house so shut up. Every time you trash him he torches you - shut up. You’re about to get taken out of the playoffs for the 3rd year in a row by LBJ, so shut the f**k up!
They’re commiting flagrants and pushing him in mid-air which could cause a horrific injury. This team is a bunch of low-life, dirty punks with no game to back up a bunch of big mouths….. they’re about to get ousted and they look like fools talking this trash.
If I was LBJ I’d give Haywood an elbow in mid-air and mop the floor with his dumb ass… even if I came to a street fight I’d put my money on LBJ on all 3 of them.
GO HOME WIZARDS YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING IN THE PLAYOFFS
Michael Bennett Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 9:20 pm
I’m pissed, too, Zane. But, don’t you think tonight it was Cleveland’s fault? They played lazy, lackluster basketball, and for no reason. I hate the Wiz, especially DeShawn Stevenson (see my poem entitled I Hate DeShawn Stevenson) and Brendan Haywood, but their antics had nothing to do with tonight.
LeBron and the Cavs got lazy. LeBron played 25 good minutes. But, he coasted for too long, and at the wrong times in the game.
What’s with these superstars sitting even for one minute? When Michael Jordan was LeBron’s age and in the Playoffs, he was playing 48 mpg.
Gabriel Chaud Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 9:23 pm
East: Celtics beat Pistons
West: Lakers beat Spurs
Finals: Celtics beat Lakers
g Said,
April 30, 2008 @ 10:16 pm
EAST
washington will beat cleveland..
atlanta will beat boston..
philadelphia will beat detroit..
..while orlando waits..
WEST
utah will win over houston..
and beat los angeles in the next round..
new orleans will defeat san antonio..
EAST FINALS: Orlando vs Washington/Atlanta = Washington/Atlanta!!!
WEST FINALS: Utah vs New Orleans = UTAH!!!
Raymond Sebond Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 1:32 am
I really like John Hollinger’s (from ESPN) idea of reconfiguring the playoffs so that the first round would match up cross conference teams. With this system, #1 in the west would play #8 in the east, #2 in the east would play #7 the west, etc., etc. The way things are set up now, the best team from the weaker conference has a definite advantage, while teams from the stronger conference have a much more difficult road. Why should a team from the west have to face a more difficult regular season and a more difficult playoff season to get to the finals? Cleveland and Washington are still slugging it out, two teams that would’ve been the 10th and 11th seeds in the west, while Dallas and Phoenix are gone after playing championship level competition in round one.
Arthur Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 5:56 am
Ha, ha…told you the Suns were a joke. Seriously, has anyone ever and I mean EVER heard a team talk more about blowing games or things beyond their control? I doubt it. Face it, run and gun, no defense basketball gets you nowhere fast. Where was the supposedly great Amare when they needed him? Oh yeah, fouled out in Game 1 or pulling a disappearing act in Game 5. The hype that guy gets is seriously hilarious.
As for the East…it does not matter. Only Detroit and Boston are playoff level teams, the rest would be sitting at home if they played in the West.
Suns sux Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 6:34 am
I would want to say…trading Marion for Shaq is thw worst trans forever in the NBA!!
I couldn’t see anything from D-tony.He doesn’t know how to use his bench players. A true sucker he was.
Fire him,Kerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!
ron Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 7:07 am
It Will be the celtics and pistons in the conference finals. But it will not matter if the lakers get bynum back they are going to win the title. Kobe is the best player ever and more hungier than ever.
koly tenguela Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 7:48 am
Michael Bennett,
it’s probably disappointment but i don’t understand why you think that lebron or the cavs failed to win that game cause of a lack of effort or because they were lazy. Lack of effort is when a team like the nuggets averaged more than 120 points scored against them by opponents in their last 10 games. That’s a lack of effort. Lebron’s teammates are just not goood enough players but they gave effort, a lot of effort. They limited the wyz to 88 points which is good and were ahead by 5 with less than 2 minutes to play. Finally, it all came down to a shot that lebron usually make and that he missed this time. That’s life, it happens.
Also, just for your information jordan’s career minutes averaged in the playoffs is 41.8, and lebron’s 41. Lebron played 45 minutes yesterday, the cavs didn’t lose cause of the 3 minutes he was sitting and the fact that he was on the bench during that time doesn’t mean that he was coasting.
bballer Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 8:26 am
all this talk about the west is better produced a weak playoff round. in the east only toronto has been sent packing, whereas in the west only the houston/utah series is still going on. the east plays defense during the playoffs, whereas the west doesn’t pick up any defensive intensity. dallas couldn’t stop cp3, the suns couldn’t stop parker and denver forgot that defense is supposed to be played at all. even if gsw got in, the same results could have happened since they don’t play defense either.
even looking towards next year, i can’t see how gsw, denver, dallas or phx can get any better even with major trades as it takes a while for teams to gel. but in the east, charlotte will be better, so will milwaukee, chitown and miami. they may not win head to head matchups as often yet, but the balance of power may slowly be shifting back to the east.
oh yeah, boston in 6 in the nba finals. this will make 3 different eastern champs in the last 8 years vs. 2 for the west (la lakers & the spurs). that does not show superiority of one conference over the other.
Porky Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 8:43 am
My Celts totally destroyed the hapless, pathetic Hawks, as I predicted in my superior basketball IQ. Excuse me, but I must get back to my research.
jr Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 9:06 am
To Jeremy: Your comment is classless too, just like Eddie Johnson’s, giving the SPURS no credit. Write something when your Suns win something. I gave the Suns credit for having great talent, the series could have gone either way at the get go. Turns out the SPURS were a better team with an experienced coach. End of story, the history is in the books.
Gabriel Chaud Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 9:08 am
Maybe a nice configuration to next playoffs will be: advance the best 16 teams of the regular season, despite their conference. The weaker conference will still get advantage by facing weaker teams during the regular season, but poor campaigns(like 40-42;38-44) wouldn’t be enough to make the playoffs. If the #1 seed overall faces the #16, and so, until the conference finals(with the possibility to advance no teams of the weaker conference), we might see better confrontantions before the finals.
Imagine:
Boston x Atlanta
Detroit x Philadelphia
Lakers x Toronto
New Orleans x Washington
San Antonio x Cleveland
Houston x Denver
Phoenix x Dallas
Utah x Orlando
Anthony Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 9:37 am
Did anyone think Grant Hill would last this far into the season? I thought he had as good a chance as Chris Webber. Grant sure fooled me, apparently the Suns had a different idea.
Anthony Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 9:44 am
How does Boris Diaw playing an effective and efficient post up game “take away” from what Steve Nash does? I thought he was the definition of “team player”.
Hindsight being 20/20: how did he become mvp? can’t play defense. I guess everyone looked at the numbers of his teamates, but they forgot to look at the numbers of the opposing teams. looks good, well, until the playoffs start and defense is key.
I already hear the bozo’s that vote on the MVP are trying to f it up again this year. History will not be kind.
David Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 9:53 am
When the Suns signed Shaq, did they not realize that he was a career 52% free throw shooter? And whose fault is that? Yao can make 85% of his free throws –why can’t Shaq? Did he ever want to get any help in that area?
You have to take the good with the bad with these players. Players used to hack Duncan a few years ago, so what did he do? Improved his free throw shooting.
Bobby Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 10:01 am
Chad - you’re MVP comment is ridiculous. AI got swept in the first round so maybe we need to reconsider the validity of his winning MVP as well. While we’re at it, what has Kevin Garnett done in his post-season career. And I distinctly recall Charles Barkley and Karl Malone failing to seize the moment. How many MVP’s can we really question?
I don’t understand how so many people (and “experts”) picked the Suns over the Spurs. The Spurs are the closest thing the NBA will likely have to a dynasty again with a franchise players, all-star calibre options and a solid bench. Having said that, they are NOT a class organization. That label left with David Robinson. It’s painful to watch a Spurs game - Duncan throwing his arms out every 2 minutes in disbelief that a foul hasn’t been called, Ginobli and Oberto flopping around trying to get calls, Tony Parker lying on the hardcourt for 10 seconds trying to get calls. It’s embarassing for the league and David Stern needs to do something about this. There really should be a flopping foul, and Duncan does need to be called for more technicals. I think Bruce Bowen’s cheap play has definitely gone down over the last couple of years, but how this guy wasn’t suspended is beyond me. Popovich is a great winning coach, but he is dirty. Playing a guy like Bowen, putting in Horry at the end of Game 4, always barking at the referees - these tactics are done for a reason.
The hack-a-Shaq philosophy while not dirty is ridiculous in the sense that it kills the game for the fans. The NBA needs to change these rules. The fact of the matter is San Antonio, while having a talented roster, exploits all these little rules, has played dirty and boring basketball to the point where ratings for the NBA finals are ridiculously low. It’s Stern’s job to implement rules to make the game more entertaining and appealing to fans. However, he’s more concerned with implementing a dress code, and changing the entrance age to 20. Ridiculous.
Other than the rant, I am really impressed at how Washington composed themselves for last night’s victory. Unfortunately, it appears as though the Wizards are a better team without Agent Zero. I’m also thinking that Denver really needs to blow the whole team up. Trade Melo and try to throw in Kenyon Martin or Nene’s cap killer contracts with him. Allen Iverson is such a talented player, but this guy cannot be a leader on a team. It’s unfortunate because he’s one of the few players in the league who I’d pay to see play. If the Raptors want to get out of the first round, they need to add someone who actually has some toughness and is willing to play defense. If they don’t add this in the offseason, Chris Bosh will leave when his contract expires, just like every star this franchise has had. New Orleans is such a well put together team. Chris Paul and David West are legitimate stars who can win games, but any double teaming risks leaving Peja, a deadly shooter open. With quality role players like Pargo, Mopete, Armstrong and Wright, I can forsee this team winning the whole thing…just not this year. If AK-47 and Mehmet Okur played like they did 2-3 years ago, how amazing would Utah be?
Bobby Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 10:20 am
I don’t get all this hate for the Nash MVPs. I really never saw another realisitc candidate other than Shaq in the first year, and I agreed with Nash winning. Over those two years, the Suns winning percentage was over .700 with him in the lineup, and less than .300 without him in the lineup. Those are telling stats. He made stars (in terms of pay) out of guys like Tim Thomas and Quentin Richardson and helped develop Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson, Boris Diaw and Raja Bell. While I agree he is a defensive liability, if opposing teams start playing Suns style basketball, Nash (and the Suns) have employed an intelligent strategy (i.e. if defense is our weakness, let’s make our team play up fast tempo b-ball to limit their defensive abilities). The playoffs are a whole other story and unfortunately the MVP race does not consider this.
I cannot see how all the Kobe lovers could make an argument for him being MVP in those years. This year, Kobe deserves it (well…maybe Chris Paul), but in those years what was the case being made? “Steve Nash, who runs the best team in the league, doesn’t play defense, but Kobe Bryant is so good overall he takes a crappy team and just barely makes them qualify in the playoffs” If that’s the case, those same people need to say LeBron James should win this year, because while Kobe is playing with Gasol, Odom and Bynum, LeBron is playing with scrubs.
Sagaliba Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 10:49 am
I suggest Gordon Gund to check the video where LeBron said ”I guess they want to hurt LeBron James this series.”
He also said his teammates told him that Stevenson fouled him with closed fist while the replay shows no such thing. Maybe he shouldn’t have trusted his teammates that much.
Michael Bennett Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 10:56 am
koly - You’re another one of these posters that DO NOT actually read what I wrote. You try and make an argument based on something you make up in your little brain. It’s obvious that you are just playing devil’s advocate, and you don’t stand behind your statement.
a) I watch every Cavs game. I know how the Cavs play. I know when they’re coasting. Last night, they were. I don’t care how you saw it. I made my judgments based on the 82 regular season games and the 4 previous Playoff games. I simply know more than you about the Cavs.
b) Like I said (if you actually read my post you moron), when Michael Jordan was LeBron’s age, he was playing nearly the entire game in the Playoffs. But, I said LeBron COASTS for a lot of the time. The offense is called, and he sits dormant on the weak side wing, and doesn’t move the entire 24 seconds. It’s mostly Mike Brown’s fault, but LeBron needs to be in on every play - there is no fatigue.
Richard Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 1:03 pm
The game of basketball, changed because of one man, Wilt Chamberlain. A move to make him less effective.
The game of basketball, changed because of one man, Michael Jordan. A move to make him more effective.
The game of basketball changed again because of one man, Shaq.
A move to make him less effective.
Why not just credit the Spurs for this; The game of basketball changed because of one team, San Antonio Spurs. A move to stop them from dominating every year in the post season.
Spurs are a class organization with class guys on the payroll to state otherwise is ridiculous. Why so many people can come up with so many reason why the Spurs are so this or so that and it all be negative is beyond me. I liked it better when all you said was that they were boring, atleast it had merit but after Manu and Tony came you had to look elsewhere instead of admitting you actually liked to watched them play. So last year they were the new Detorit Bad Boys for the new century. They flop and whine more than any past group of champs. (Magic,Jordan, ahem) they need to implement a rule for flopping because of them. They should have an asterick behind EVERY championship they’ve won. David is / was too soft. They have too many non American players and there should be some kind of rule against that in the league. The Spurs are haboring terrorist. They are a bunch of gay men playing in shorts. I’d rather watch the Suns lose with style than watch a team that contiues to win. The 80’s Celtics were never this boring. blah-blah-blah
Bottleline, just say you hate the Spurs and keep it moving. Sheesh, we ‘ve been hearing the same crap from YOU WHINERS, oops of course you don’t whine as much as the Spurs every year, right?
lol
koly tenguela Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 2:41 pm
Michael Bennett,
what a surprise, once again you are unable to have any kind of discussion with anyone who doesn’t share your opinion without being disrespectful but i’m not going to get caught in that. I’ll take the high road on that one.
1.So back to our discussion, anytime a game is close , Lebron is on the court nearly the entire game and there’s plenty of evidence of that for everyone so…
2.You think that the cavs lose because Lebron was coasting and his teammates didn’t gave enough effort, i think they lose because they didn’t play well their last four possessions:
a.tough three pointer by lebron that didn’t hit the rim
b.Lebron give the ball to an open gibson who missed
c.Joe smith miss a close shot like he has done the entire game
d.Lebron goes to the hole but can’t finish
During that time the wiz came back and got the lead but if any of those possessions have been played better (or ended with a better result), that series is over.Playoff time, you’ve got to make plays at both end of the court at the end of the game.
That’s my view and i am trying to explain this in a logical way and if i’m wrong i will be the first one to recognize it.
You can’t get under my skin like you’re doing with others because it’s too thick for that. That’s a basketball blog ( and a good one), nothing more and nothing less, that’s not my life.
Rashidi Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 3:06 pm
As good as Grant Hill was, I never saw why he should have been starting over Boris Diaw this year. Hill is easily the bigger injury risk of the two and ultimately isn’t really any better at this point. Diaw is a good fit with Nash as the team needs a secondary ball handler sometimes as there isn’t anyone on the team besides Nash who can find someone.
I think it’s time to either dump Barbosa or Bell, or reduce one of their roles.
Barbosa is fast and great in transition with Nash but is lacking on the defensive end. Bell is a better defensive player but cannot create for himself and isn’t athletic or a finisher. he is also on the wrong side of 30 and I thought it was telling that Gordan Giricek was able to get some rotation minutes over him.
What the Suns need is a combination of these two players - I.E. a legit starting SG (or SF). A guard with athleticism, shooting, and ability at both ends of the court. Someone who can take the load off of Nash’s back. Someone like Brandon Roy would probably be the perfect fit given his age and abilities. Of course, Roy is completely unattainable. But let’s take a look at who isn’t.
Vince Carter - The ultimate prize for the Suns. He is the best available player and probably the easiest to attain given NJ’s rebuilding process. The best part is the Nets probably would even take back Shaq as he’s from Jersey and exactly the type of marketable player/personality they’d want to go into Brooklyn with. The Nets have many players attractive to the Suns (Vince, RJ, Nachbar, Sean Williams, Swift, Kristc, Diop, Boone) so there are many combinations that could be made in a multi-player deal (Ex: Shaq/Barbosa for Carter/Diop/Boone. Shaq has a shorter contract than Carter which would be the main incentive, as the Jay-Z Nets are sure to go hard after LeBron and will need a 20 million dollar contract coming off their cap in two years.
Richard Jefferson - See above, but harder to get as he’s younger with a lower priced contract.
JR Smith - A young player on the rise buried by George Karl who feels Anthony Carter next to Iverson and Melo is a better fit than Smith. The Nuggets have too much scoring (hogging) with their two star players so the Suns could get Smith at a discount. Raja Bell is probably a better fit for Denver right now as he’s a defensive player and just as good a 3pt shooter as Smith. He certainly beats defensive minded guys like Carter and Yakhouba Diawara.
Michael Redd - Milwaukee is rebuilding and would probably pawn him off for Barbosa/Bell and though the Suns would also likely have to take some bad contracts like Bobby Simmons or Dan Gadzuric (for Diaw) although both would probably be better fits in Phoenix.
Andre Iguodala - Not a great shooter but does everything else well. He is a restricted FA and the Suns could work a sign/trade if he wants to bolt. However a trade would be difficult as Philly already has Louis Williams and thus wouldn’t have much Barbosa interest.
Michael Bennett Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 3:56 pm
koly - your interpretation of why the Cavs lost boils down to 4 possessions?!? So, NBA games are about 4 possessions?
That’s the difference between you and I. I look at the big picture, the entire 48 minutes in the basketball game. You look at 4 possessions, because your small brain can’t handle more than that.
Is that when you turned on the game? With 2 minutes left? Looks like it.
The Cavs and LeBron coasted most of the game, just like they did last year when they had New Jersey up 3-1. Any real Cavs fan knows that. koly, you have no clue.
Jeremy Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 4:46 pm
jr, you’re way off. I conceded that the Spurs know how to win. I simply stated that they use cheap tricks to do it. They didn’t win with their superior basketball skills; they won with their ability to exploit flaws and loopholes in the rulebook. I’m not arguing that the Spurs didn’t win.
koly tenguela Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 4:56 pm
Michael Bennett,
1.Never said that a game is just about 4 possessions, but some possessions are more important than others ( you should know that and if you don’t believe me, ask the suns, they know one thing or two about that) and notably in a close, hard fought game, end of the game possessions are really, really meaningful
2.I am not a cavs fan, have never been so yeah maybe that’s why i am able to see things that a fan couldn’t have seen because i’m judging in a pragmatic way. I’m not saying that guys are coasting because i’m disappointed after they lose by one point a game against another team who’s more talented.
3.Ok, i have a small brain and you are a genius ( while you don’t even know me). You are so smart that you are insulting anyone who doesn’t agree with you ( a real proof of your intelligence). I’m wondering why you are hating so much Deshawn Stevenson because, finally in a lot of ways you are acting like him but you probably can’t even see that.
Anyway, like i told you, i’m going to take the high road, and just keep talking about basketball because that’s what i’m interested. Hope you could come back with basketball arguments.
eddie Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 6:39 pm
Rashidi
i couldnt agree more with Suns needs!
Richard Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 7:13 pm
The thing with the Suns is, they just seem to be lost against San Antonio. I thought Shaq would help a lot more in that regard this season and thus my concern. The Suns also need to develop a bench and a legitimate backup for Steve Nash, now more than ever a legitimate replacement for Nash.
I like Bell at the two because he can knock down the 3 ball and defend fairly well but most importantly, he keeps proving this, he’s hard nose and tough. I love that about the guy and in game 4 he played above his head, for sure.
Grant Hill, IMO, should have came to the Spurs off the bench in a contributing role but limited, until the playoffs, he wore himself down this late in his career with previous injuries. He could have done more and preserved himself better in San Antonio.
I seriously doubt the Suns would trade Shaq for Carter. Shaq would be opposed to playing for anyone NOT a contender. Carter would surely help the Suns offensively, but defensively I doubt that very much. He would add scoring, shooting, and the 3 ball. He has the ability to create for himself and his teammates so the move would help on that end.
The real problem is Amare’s inability on the glass and defense. He’s not consistent. The other thing about him that baffles me is this guys draws more fouls going to the basket like a guard than in the post. Which if his post game was better, he’d draw more fouls on his defender, thus putting them in foul trouble and getting the Suns to the penalty quicker, a like like Tim Duncan does every year. He relies too much on his ability and not enough on his mental. Which helps him stay in foul trouble all the time.
The Suns are going to have to get some players on that bench to help lighten that load throughout the course of the season and bring it on at home in the playoffs. I think the Suns may well do something slightly BIG this summer, what might that be is the question.
I’m more interested in Orlando getting a bruiser along side Howard and an upgrade at the PG.
s
Zane Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 7:33 pm
I don’t think Cavs were lazy, but they did play badly in the final minute and Butler made them pay. Cavs were up 5 with 1.15 to go and I think they should have kept feeding Ilgauskas who was on a roll.
Once again the game is marred with cheapshots, Songalia should be suspended… it is obvious that they are trying to make Lebron snap back on someone with a punch so he will get suspended or they are trying to injure him. Either way this is some bullsh*t tactics.
This Wizards team can’t play proper defence so resort to cheapshots, they oughta be ashamed. What a classless bunch of low-life, big mouth, no-talent punks this team is, I can’t wait till these guys lose in their own house.
koly tenguela Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 8:06 pm
I think suns management made a lot of bad decisions during the last years by systematically getting rid of their draft picks who could have helped them to get a bench and the backup point guard they need ( barbosa’s decision making is terrible). They let go the 7th in the 2004 draft for not paying the luxury tax, the 21st pick of 2005 for money,27th of 2006 for money and gave up their 2008 and 2010 first round picks in order to get rid of Kurt thomas. And i’m not even talking about the guy they sold to the blazers last year for 3 millions dollars( rudy fernandez) i have seen him play twice this year and he’s really good, a player neither than i’m talking about the joe johnson thing or giving 24 millons to marcus banks.
I was one of the few defending the shaq trade this year because they were not going to win without him so they took a chance and it works better than what a lot of people were thinking. Problem was that d’antoni showed all his stuff during the last 2 regular season meetings with the spurs and popovich gave his answer during the playoffs: hack a shaq in order to disrupt the suns rythm offensively and stop the suns to have shaq on duncan all the time. Now, they are stuck because they have no cap, no draft picksand an aging team so i really don’t know about them. Looks that like the mavs they let their chance goes
koly tenguela Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 8:21 pm
According to nbadraft.net, the 7th of 2004 turned out to be luol deng, the 21st of 2006 rajon rondo, 27th of 2006 sergio rodriguez and you don’t know yet about the 2008 and the 2010.I don’t know if i have to fault colangelo (for me a very good gm) or Sarver for that but the suns could have had the team of the decade and they just screw up everyting. Steve Kerr ’s job won’t be easy. I still believe they have one more year if everything goes their way but it’s going to be very difficult.
Rashidi Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 9:08 pm
“According to nbadraft.net, the 7th of 2004 turned out to be luol deng, the 21st of 2006 rajon rondo, 27th of 2006 sergio rodriguez and you don’t know yet about the 2008 and the 2010.”
Yes but the Deng pick was in a trade designed to free up cap room, which they used to sign Nash. I don’t think there’s any doubt Nash has been more valuable than all of those players combined.
Rashidi Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 9:26 pm
“I was one of the few defending the shaq trade this year because they were not going to win without him so they took a chance and it works better than what a lot of people were thinking.”
There is no shame in losing to the Spurs in the playoffs, be it the First Round or the Conference Finals. Parker abused Nash in the series and Shawn Marion wouldn’t have made one bit of a difference, as the Spurs have always rendered him ineffective.
The Suns biggest dilemna isn’t the Spurs though, it’s their payroll and budget. We knew for a long time that this was going to be the last year of Nash/Amare/Marion, and Kerr pulled the plug on it earlier than expected in order to get some value for Marion and not mortgage the team’s playoff hopes in the process.
It should be pretty clear that a player like Marion is not someone you want locked up long-term at this point, given his age and dependence on his athleticism. Instead of 5 years of Marion getting worse (most likely at an escalating cost of 15% per season), they have 2 more years of Shaq getting worse, at a fixed cost of 20 million, and at least generating some extra revenue and favorable press. Even with Shaq on the decline, he is still among the top centers in the league and allows Amare to stop playing center every night, something Marion did not. Compared to what guys like Samuel Dalembert are making, Shaq is fine. The Suns missed out on Gasol and had they any draft picks remaining to deal it’s probable that he’d be wearing a Phoenix uniform instead.
The biggest mistake the Suns have made was giving Diaw 9 million per year and then turning him into a backup.
Kingsblade Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 9:42 pm
Chad:
Nash has put up good numbers since 2000, so I don’t quite understand why you think he’s only been good for four.
On another note: What the Suns need is a Joe Johnson. Too bad he wanted out. If they had managed to keep things together they could have simply added a veteran big to play defense and rebound beside Stoudemire.
Rashidi Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 10:10 pm
Let’s break the Suns roster down
Shaq: 40 million, 2 years
If Shaq doesn’t retire, he isn’t going to command 20 million in his next contract. This is off the books in two years, which as said is easier to deal with than the headache of keeping Marion or not. It’s also a short enough contract to make trading him feasible. Dallas, NY, and NJ come to mind.
Amare: 31.4 million, 2 years (17 M player option for 3rd year, likely declined)
With Shaq coming off the books at the same time, it’s a given that Amare is going to opt out and command a mega deal which the Suns can surely afford by that point. Amare will be 27 so a 6 year deal should take him through the rest of his prime.
Nash: 12.2 million, 1 year (plus a 13.1 M team option)
Nash will be 34 next year. And if they kept him another year he’d be 35 and a free agent. I have a feeling the Suns will decline Nash’s option and sign him to more favorable terms - less money but more years. They could try to lock him up from age 35-37 for maybe 8 million a year, and they’d save about 5 million (not including luxury tax) for his age 35 season with him taking the paycut. If the Suns didn’t look to do this and merely exercised the team option, I’d imagine it would be Nash’s final year with the team as I’m sure they’d prefer someone younger to pair with Amare for the duration of his prime.
Diaw: 36 million, 4 years
Diaw is 2nd on the money owed list behind Shaq. He needs to be starting in order to earn that paycheck. He is the closest to Marion of any player on the roster but has the added dimension of being the best ball handler and distributor on the team after Nash. Diaw is still young, only 25, and is signed until he is 30. He is never going to be worth his contract playing 20 minutes per game so it’s time to maximize the value of the investment.
Barbosa: 19.8 million, 3 years (7.6 M player option at age 28)
Barbosa will probably decline his player option as he a bargain right now and will likely be better in the future (assuming he doesn’t fall apart without D’Antoni, assuming DA leaves). Actually Barbosa could be a very key figure for the Suns because if he develops his PG skills the Suns could essentially cut bait on Nash and hand the reigns to Barbosa. He is the same age as Amare which I’m sure should not be lost on any Suns official looking towards the future.
Bell: 10.2 million, 2 years
The easiest player to trade on the team as there is no shortage of teams looking for a player like him, at a mere 5 million per season.
Those are the Suns top 6 players. Unfortunately they don’t have many assets after that as they’ve had to trade away countless draft picks to maintain their contending roster. Grant Hill has a 1.9 player option which would be a great value for the Suns even with him coming off the bench, but there are indications that he might retire. That leaves 2nd year players Tucker and Strawberry as the only two players under contract. Even if Hill stays, they still have 3 players to sign between to meet the 12 man roster limit (and if one of those is Grant Hill, you obviously need at least one guy on the reserve list).
The Suns would probably like to keep Skinner and Giricek for the veteran’s minimum, Giricek is likely to command more than that but Skinner is surely okay with it. Giricek is a key figure for the Suns as he allows the team some flexibility in a Barbosa or Bell trade. If the Suns decide there is no hope for Barbosa to ever replace Nash, they need to turn him into some depth for the team, including a legit backup PG, preferably someone young for Nash to mentor.
The Suns will have the 15th pick (via Atlanta) and 49th pick (via Cleveland) to help round out their roster.
It should be noted that the Hawks pick was close to being Phoenix’s last year. It only had top 3 or protection I think, and the Hawks kept it thanks to some ping pong balls. Corey Brewer, Joakim Noah, Brandan Wright, Jeff Green, or Spencer Hawes would have been nice additions to the Suns.
Rashidi Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 10:23 pm
“What the Suns need is a Joe Johnson. Too bad he wanted out. If they had managed to keep things together they could have simply added a veteran big to play defense and rebound beside Stoudemire.”
JJ wasn’t the answer. He was a 16-18 ppg scorer with the Suns, commanding a max deal. The reason they let him go was they already had three guys making big money in Nash, Marion, and Amare, and they could not afford a 4th.
With what they got out of Bell and Barbosa since letting JJ go (around 30 ppg at 10 million per year) it is pretty clear that re-signing JJ to a huge deal would have been a mistake, especially since they also got some draft picks out of the deal. In a perfect world (or a video game), they’d have given him the money and won a championship. But in reality it wasn’t in the cards, and JJ is better off as he found a team willing to make him their franchise player.
This is not to say JJ wouldn’t be a good fit for the team as a player. He has developed his game a lot since leaving, but it would be nearly impossible to acquire him given how much money he makes (42.6 million over the next 3 years). Had they kept him, it would have been at the expense of Marion - problem is Marion was making even more money and thus even harder to trade.
koly tenguela Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 10:24 pm
Rashidi,
yes, but my point was to say that they could have had nash and other good players if sarver have not been so frugal. Put the deng pick out if you want, they still could have make good use of the other guys. Why not keep fernandez in spain for 2, 3 years so he would not have been on their cap and make him come as a finished product ( a usual spurs move). Rondo would have been a perfect back up pg to groom behind Nash instead they gave 24 millions dollars to marcus banks.
For your second comment, i don’t know if you are disagreeing with what i was saying or just commenting it cause i’m perfectly ok with all you said and you could go back to my posts about the shaq trade to check it. I also agree with you about the diaw’s thing.
Finally, thanks to you and all the other guys here who are giving their opinions without saying that everyone is stupid, has less knowledge than them, has a small brain or those other type of bullshit. It’s really refreshing to talk about what i love ,basketball, and not some kind of garbage.
Rashidi Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 10:48 pm
Another thing I always forget is that they did more than trade Marion for Shaq, they also dumped the worst contract given by the previous regime (Marcus Banks) in that deal. Banks is making about 13.3 million over the next 3 years, and was barely getting off the bench with most guard minutes going to Nash/Bell/Barbosa.
The toughest thing for any Suns fan to swallow is that they basically gave up two future first rounders in order to avoid paying 16 million for Kurt Thomas AND send him to the Spurs.
In retrospect their biggest mistake was overpaying Quentin Richardson. Because of that, they had to take on Kurt (and give up another 1st rounder) to get rid of him. Raja Bell and Leandro Barbosa both ended better players for half the price.
Rashidi Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 10:54 pm
Chain of events
Sign Q-Rich
Trade Q-Rich and 1st rounder for Kurt Thomas
Trade Kurt Thomas and two 1st rounders for 2nd round pick, cash, and luxury tax avoidance
Net: Three lost first rounders.
Had they not signed Q-Rich at all, they might have even had the money to keep Joe Johnson. JJ had a year left on his contract when they decided to sign Q-Rich and Nash.
Chad Said,
May 1, 2008 @ 11:05 pm
It just seems like there is always an excuse for the Suns every year. Why doesnt the mvp Nash step up and make a good defensive effort or take over the game like past mvp could. You know?
Kingsblade Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 12:00 am
Rashidi:
Oh no, you get me wrong. I didn’t mean that I thought they should have re-signed him, I just meant he was the sort of player they could use. I wasn’t really talking about it as something they should have done, it just was an amusing coincidence to me that they already had the type of guy they need, who is now gone. He was too much money for what he would do for them.
Omar Aberilla Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 4:15 am
I know you all don’t like hearing this, but Garnett is not and was never a pressure player. He aint’ clutch. He’s a defensive stud alright, but at the end of the day basketball is still about whose team makes more shots especially in the endgame.
You know what they say about the loudest people usually being the weakest. That’s what’s behind that scowl and trash talking that Garnett usually exhibits. Because inside of him, he’s afraid of taking responsibility of making or even attempting the shots that truly matter. Then again, it’s not just about him. However, there’s not one player you can rely on from that Celtics squad who’s capable of taking over games except maybe for Paul Pierce. There’s a difference between merely filling out the stat sheet from that of making an impact or being the catalyst down the stretch in close games.
The Hawks seem poised to tie the series at 3-3 and win it. It would have to be the biggest surprise to evolve from this year’s playoffs and a grand one at that. I hope I’m wrong though because the reemergence of the Celtics winning tradition is great for basketball. A first round disaster would definitely overshadow what had been an unbelievable regular season. This version of the Celtic big three are all Mchale’s and Parish’s, no Larry Bird’s.
nino Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 5:23 am
Eddie I predicted spurs in 5 in your collum after I saw the suns crumble in game 5. You keep giving excuses for the suns and they have needed it for the last 5 years of getting knocked out by mainly the spurs. You should be tired of giving them too much credit after all even the coach d Antoni is leaving the team for all there failures. Just say it the spurs are better coached and are a better all around team in the playoffs than theses suns will ever be!
jr Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 8:34 am
jeremy, I’m way off for saying you give the SPURS no credit? You just did it again. Typical Suns fan. The SPURS did not win using loopholes or cheap tricks. Go back and watch the games again. The Suns players and coaches would not agree with you.
They won using defense and experience. Face it, they just know how to win. Funny that you are giving the reasons such as using loopholes and cheap tricks for the SPURS winning where as the players and coach for the Suns stated otherwise.
No disrespect here just the facts. I know it hurts you guys to see the Suns out in the first round and the added pain of the SPURS doing it yet again. Who knows if we’ll win it all this year but we have a chance to.
Gabriel Chaud Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 8:45 am
The Suns mistake was being desperate for a title, like that was a time-bomb clocking over them, trading all the draft picks and adding veterans with doutbful conditions. They got Shaq in order to come over Spurs, but Suns would lost to Hornets or Lakers anyway. Nash is great, but the recent NBA history tells that a experienced PG delivering balls to athletic players on the run doesn’t take your team to the title(like Kidd and the Nets). Suns should bring a more defensive-minded coach and trade players by making a good reading of their roster payroll.
And don’t forget: Celtics x Lakers is back
David Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 8:49 am
Koly, I totally agree with you that it is nice to see you, Rashidi, Kingsblade, JR, even Eddie, giving opinions with resorting to name calling. No one pays much attention to mine (whatever) being a Spurs fan, but as far as the Suns:
I don’t think Barbosa could ever replace Nash. He is phenomenal in the open court but makes way too many mistakes and cannot distribute the ball. He might be a bargain, but as a Spurs fan, I liked it when he was on the floor.
D’Antoni’s biggest mistake has been his rotation and lack of a bench. Even when they were blowing us out in Game 4 in the 4th quarter by 24 points, he had his starters in. Pop took his out at the end of the 3rd. DIdn’t Nash look out of gas at the end of the 4th in Game 5 when he was making critical turnovers?
Michael Bennett Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 10:14 am
Oh, wow. Everyone is sooo sensitive - Can’t call anyone names while arguing about basketball. Where did you guys grow up? In the Mormon Polygamy Sect?
“Oh, dear. I regretfully disagree with you about your opinions on LeBron James. I think he is playing very well. It’s a darn shame…”
“Don’t say DARN! That’s not how we argue basketball. We’re adults.”
Give me a break. An NBA blog like Eddie’s is supposed to recreate a sports bar situation with you and your friends. And, part of discussing and arguing basketball is getting into it and getting fired up… and, most of all, getting others fired up.
If I call someone a bozo, or pea brain, or dummy, it’s because I disagree with their comment and think they don’t know that much about The Game. I think Eddie would agree that you gotta have chops, and sports blogging, just like the locker room, isn’t PG. You pansies.
eddie Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 10:32 am
Can Houston win game 6? No
Can the Cavaliers steal another game in Washington? No
Can Atlanta send this to a game 7? Yes
thoughts please
Michael Bennett Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 10:55 am
The Cavs WILL win tonight. You know it, I know it, even Yellow Dog knows it.
No one in the league plays better than LeBron when he’s mad. He’s like the Incredible Hulk - when you make him angry, he turns into a monster. And, after that missed game winner, he’s going to go crazy.
Houston is done.
And, so is Atlanta. Boston has shown in Game 5 that they ARE a force, and when the Big 3 are just playing decently, they’re going to win big.
So, “CAN” Atlanta send this to a Game 7? Yes. WILL they? Absolutely no chance.
P Lewis James Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 10:59 am
Stop canonizing Lebron James! What has he won in the NBA? If and when he does win then have a discussion on how great he is.
Porky Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 11:08 am
Can Eddie be wrong in all his predictions? Yes
Can Eddie provide expository comments that transcend the simple soundbite? No
Should Eddie quit his day job? No.
Will Celts prevail tonight? Of course.
Craig Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 12:21 pm
This is already the most boring playoffs in NBA history. Suns, Raps, Mavs are done. Another Spurs title ahead. Yah
How long is it ’til October???
LAallDay Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 12:58 pm
The only reason why Michael “BendoverforLebron” Bennett is canonizing LB23 is because he’s LOVES THE TASTE OF HIS JOCKSTRAP just as much as he does Eddies ha ha ha and HA! Go head and delete this EJ, I know you will. Lames, can we please get some real experts on here.
Michael Bennett Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 1:24 pm
Hey P Lewis James -
LeBron already has an Eastern Conference Championship, a Scoring Title, 4X All-Star, 2 All-Star MVPs, 1X All-NBA 1st Team (this year will be his second), 2X All-NBA 2nd Team, 2004 ROY (Youngest to ever do so), 27.3 ppg Career (5th All-Time) and he’s only 23 years old.
So, THAT’s what he’s “won in the NBA”?
Now, koly, do you understand why I call people bozo, dummy, pea brain, etc? THIS is the ultimate example.
Kingsblade Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 1:50 pm
David:
When have I ever called anybody a name? I love arguing, but name calling is not my style.
tdawg Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
I’m pretty disappointed in the western playoffs too. I thought the suns and mavs would put up a better fight, in fact, i had the suns and mavs winning their respective series!
I hate to say it Eddie, but your suns are DONE. There are so many teams in the west that are young and on the come up, such as the Lakers, Hornets, Blazers, Jazz…Suns have had their chances and they’ve steadily gotten worse over the yrs….they faded just like the Blazers and Kings did in the early 2000s…
Mavs are also done, they need to get rid of a couple of players, namely Josh Howard, who did absolutely NOTHING in the playoffs…maby try and get someone like Richard Jefferson or Vince Carter for Josh Howard…
Celtics will close out their series tonight, they were the best road team in the L during the reg season, and I expect them to win it tonight….cavs will not beat the wizards tonight, and utah will take care of houston tonight….
It’s just funny to see Shaq make these promises to the Suns fans and then get knocked out in the first round in FIVE games….of course the media wont rip shaq for it or better yet, not even rip NASH for it…its a complete travesty that this guy won the MVP award 2 yrs in a row…sure didnt look like it the entire series…way to step it up Nash, u got schooled by tony parker and you cost your team the series in game 5 with mistake after mistake down the stretch…at the least, he took responsibility for it so i respect him for that…but 2 time mvp? Thank GOD Kobe will bring credibility back to the MVP award when he wins it this year….
Michael Bennett Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 2:03 pm
Kingsblade - It reads CLEAR AS DAY that koly said you argue WITHOUT name calling.
You guys really make it easy for me to call you idiots.
David Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 3:01 pm
Kingsblade, MB is (actually) right…I was trying to give you and the others props for discussing without getting personal. You are actually one of my favorite bloggers here.
I just reread my post and I guess I am an idiot — I meant to say
WITHOUT name calling. Boy, one typo can really change the meaning. Sorry to all I named.
Well, y’all are still rooted in the first round. I’m onto the second. SPurs defense and experience vs Hornets youth and home court. Should be a great series.
Rashidi Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 4:32 pm
“The Suns mistake was being desperate for a title, like that was a time-bomb clocking over them, trading all the draft picks and adding veterans with doutbful conditions.”
What veterans with doubtful conditions are you talking about? The ONLY player they’ve added in the last five years who fits that mold is Shaq.
“Nash is great, but the recent NBA history tells that a experienced PG delivering balls to athletic players on the run doesn’t take your team to the title(like Kidd and the Nets)”
Which is why they traded away the athletic Marion for the bigger Shaq. Are you also saying that experienced PGs cannot win championships?
And just so we’re clear, the Suns would have made the NBA Finals every time if they played in the eastern conference, the Nets were never legit contenders like the Suns, they were a 50 win team. The Nuggets won 50 games and were 8th in the west this year by comparison. Amare, Shaq/Marion, Bell, and Barbosa are just SLIGHTLY better than Kenyon Martin, Keith Van Horn, Kerry Kittles, and rookie Richard Jefferson. Only slightly.
The Suns ran into the Spurs the same way the Knicks ran into the Bulls how many years in a row. There’s a reason the Spurs have won multiple times this decade - they’ve been the best team just about every year.
“And don’t forget: Celtics x Lakers is back”
The new Lakers have played the new Celtics all of two times. No rivalry whatsoever right now. Too many fresh faces for both teams and nobody to position off against. The Celtics are not defined by one player the way the Lakers are. Deron/Paul is a bigger rivalry than Boston/LA right now. Lakers easily have bigger rivalries with the Suns, Spurs, Jazz, even the Pistons or Cavs when compared to Boston. The Celtics won’t even be around long enough to develop a legit rivalry as the big three are all in their 30s, while Kobe/Gasol/Odom/Bynum are all in their 20s.
lou Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 4:35 pm
I wonder what the Orlando Magic would respond to your assertion that Grant Hill deserves a shot at an NBA title!!!!!!!!!
Rashidi Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 4:43 pm
Michael Bennett Said,
“Oh, dear. I regretfully disagree with you about your opinions on LeBron James. I think he is playing very well. It’s a darn shame…”
“And, part of discussing and arguing basketball is getting into it and getting fired up… and, most of all, getting others fired up.”
And that’s just it. We’re discussing, and you’re arguing. Additionally, thank you for admitting you are an internet troll.
“If I call someone a bozo, or pea brain, or dummy, it’s because I disagree with their comment and think they don’t know that much about The Game.”
That and you aren’t capable of an intelligent conversation or debate. The basketball comments you write don’t get much of a reaction so you have to resort to things that will.
Someone who knows what they’re talking about doesn’t need to demean others to make their opinion seem superior.
What it ultimately comes down to is your own insecurity - in yourself, your beliefs, and your ability (or lackthereof) to properly express them.
INTERNET TROLL
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
Rashidi Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 4:45 pm
Michael Bennett Said,
Kingsblade - It reads CLEAR AS DAY that koly said you argue WITHOUT name calling.
You guys really make it easy for me to call you idiots.
Case in point. Ignore him.
Raymond Sebond Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 6:30 pm
The problem with your tactics, Mr Bennett, is that everyone can see that you are exactly like the phony classroom pet or the office brown-noser. When you disagree with Eddie, you debate stats, accomplishments, etc., without name calling, but with everyone else, you immediately accuse them of not watching the nba, being morons, being fags, etc… it’s pretty infantile. Calling two guys who root for a team you don’t like “ass-bumping” homosexuals (as you did in the last thread) is the modern day equivalent of a guy in the 1960s calling his enemies “nigger-lovers”… I don’t imagine the celebrities that you claim to be partying with in L.A. would find it amusing if you were to taunt some of their cocktail party guests by saying, ” whatta you guys, a couple of FAGS who don’t understand that LeBron is the greatest?!”
David Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 6:51 pm
Raymond, so well put — I was one of the “homos” from the last thread.
MB reminds me of the old cartoon where the bulldog Spike (aka Eddie) struts around with a little yappy dog running around him (MB) ….
I’m just so glad he can take the time away from Paris Hilton to watch so many games…or am I being too sarcastic?
Rin Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 7:06 pm
Well said Raymond.
Michael Bennett Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 7:51 pm
I don’t call Eddie an idiot because Eddie isn’t an idiot. I call you guys idiots because you ARE idiots. I also would call a duck and duck and a horse a horse.
Signed,
Internet Troll (who’s on the JUMP SHOT CLUB’S WALL OF FAME for arguing the NBA)
todd Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 8:33 pm
So much for that homer pick… You know what i’m talking about Eddie boy.
Raymond Sebond Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 8:36 pm
It’s hopeless guys… besides, maybe the Chicago Bulls WILL win the NBA championship this year afterall, proving how sharp his insight into the nba is…
I mean, look how good the “unstoppable” Mavericks team performed.
Here’s a poem:
Las Vegas
If you’re placing a bet
and hoping to win it
don’t take the advice
of the troll Michael Bennett.
rob Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 9:59 pm
Haha Eddie. Told U so about Shaq and the Suns. Everybody (except you) knew that adding Shaq-a-sauras to the Suns was a completely moronic move by Steve Kerr. Now they are stuck with $20 frickin million dollars in salary cap for the next two years. And you called it a great trade. How does that crow taste?
JamesOn Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 10:17 pm
Nice win for the Hawks and all…but I’m just fed up with 1 seeds that can’t put 8 seeds away. See 2006 Dallas Mavericks and this year’s overrated Boston Celtics team. They can only win at home (weak minded individuals). Their third best player, Ray Allen, can’t defend a chair, and takes incredibly poor angles on defense. His lateral mobility is as slow as molasses, and he always trails behind an offensive player. Also, he always gets beat for rebounds, and chucks bad shots. He reminds me of a 6-5 Ben Gordon, fans love this weirdo, but is completely overrated. Also Doc Rivers is a terrible coach, he is the type who will win you 50 games and lose regularly in the first round. When will he learn that Ray Allen can’t defend anybody and shouldn’t be defending in late game situations on the road, especially when he’s on a cold streak? Yes, he’s athletic, but he gets burned all the time. Also, Powe is undersized, and gets pushed back and outjumped for rebounds and loses positioning too easily. They should maybe put Perkins or Glen Davis on Horford, somebody who can push him away from the hoop and force him to take tougher shots away from the rim. And what’s with KG passing the ball all the time? Be assertive!
All in all, the Celtics may win game 7, but not because they deserve to, but only because of home field advantage. Suffice to say, the Pistons will probably beat them (or Orlando) because Ray Allen just isn’t as clutch as everyone thinks he is, and can’t defend a soul in the NBA. Hollinger is right. He does make Dirk Nowitski look like Bill Russell on the defensive end.
Rashidi Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 10:37 pm
LOL the highlight of your life
Michael Bennett Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 10:55 pm
Rashidi - Jealous much? I think so. Man… You’d love to be on that Wall Of Fame, wouldn’t you?
Yes!
Michael Bennett Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 10:59 pm
As for LeBron, another triple double. Like I said, he and the Cavs coasted in Game 5. The real fans called him out on it, he knew it, and he gave a spectacular Playoff performance in Game 6 and his team stepped up big time.
All the while, Rashidi missed the game because his nose was stuck on the computer screen researching his next nine page post about stats from 1957.
JamesOn Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 11:04 pm
It might be safe to say….a defensive coach like Van Gundy probably would paraphrase a line from the movie Walk Hard, when Dewey Cox’s father told his kid, ‘wrong kid died,’ I think he would probably say,’ Wrong Allen’s in the game.’ Just some humor for ya.
eddie Said,
May 2, 2008 @ 11:16 pm
Let Bennett alone! Wheres that Celtic fan?
Kingsblade Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 12:06 am
Michael Bennett:
Have trouble with reading comprehension? When he pointed out the lack of name calling he implied that name calling had happened during past discussions. I have not called anyone a name during any conversation on this site. Here, let me give you the quote one more time so your brilliant mind can take another shot at it.
David said:
“it is nice to see you, Rashidi, Kingsblade, JR, even Eddie, giving opinions with resorting to name calling.”
Are you really on here bragging how much smarter than us you are while not grasping the meaning and implication of a simple statement like that?
Well done, you sure make the rest of us feel so inadequate with that sharp mind of yours. I don’t know how you get time free from the think tank to come here and brow beat us with your brilliance.
Rashidi Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 4:47 am
While I’m doing some Suns research it probably wouldn’t hurt to post a stat for the team: Pts per 100 possessions.
Not points per game, which is misleading as the Suns create more game possessions for both sides due to their frentic pace. Because it’s a fixed amount of possessions, this brings efficiency and effectiveness into the equation.
Now taking the data from 82games.com which applies this as an on/off court factor, here’s how the team performed with each player on the court.
Pts ALLOWED per 100 possessions
Barbosa: 110.6
Stoudemire: 110.3
Skinner: 109.4
Giricek: 109.2
Nash: 108.9
O’Neal: 108.7
Bell: 107.6
Diaw: 107.6
Hill: 106.4
Marion: 105.8
The Suns worst defenders were Stoudemire and Barbosa. Their best defenders were Bell, Diaw, and Hill. Their best defensive player was Marion who as we know was traded for Shaq who was not as good defensively but was at the least average compared to the rest of the team.
Pts scored per 100 possessions
Nash: 118.9
Stoudemire: 118.1
Marion: 115.5
O’Neal: 115.4
Bell: 115.0
Hill: 113.9
Barbosa: 113.9
Giricek: 112.4
Diaw: 111.5
Skinner: 107.1
Nash and Stoudemire were obviously the most valuable offensive players on the team. Marion and Shaq were essentially equal on this end.
Net Pts per 100 possessions
Nash: +10.0
Marion: +9.7
Stoudemire: +7.8
Hill: +7.5
Bell: +7.4
O’Neal: +6.7
Diaw: +3.9
Barbosa: +3.3
Giricek: +3.2
Skinner: -2.3
The downgrade from Shaq to Marion is basically offset by the dumping of Banks who was easily the team’s worst contract. They also don’t have to pay the big bucks to Marion. And for what it’s worth, given that Marion didn’t play at the end of the season, it’s not exactly clear whether or not he would have been healthy enough to play for the Suns in the playoffs (one must at least assume he would have been less than 100%). The team also used Brian Skinner far less once picking up Shaq which has to be considered a good thing.
The biggest thing Phoenix could collect from this data is that Barbosa is an overrated commodity and the most expendable part on the team. He was the team’s worst defensive player and the team performed better offensively without him. If anything, he was only slightly better than Gordan Giricek.
There are many factors that affect this data (for instance, a player starting next to Nash is going to have a higher points per 100 possessions than a player subbing in for Nash). Barbosa did play many minutes without Nash and the team obviously has no other player capable of backing him up. One would need a split of how Barbosa and the team performed with and without Nash to see if he is suitable for this role.
Another thing is positions. Marion was a SF/PF with the Suns and while Shaq was less effective he also played at the C position, which slid Amare to PF, opened up more minutes at SF for guys like Hill and Bell, and kept Skinner from seeing the court.
Gabriel Chaud Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 8:49 am
Rashidi,
1) I was talking about Shaq and Grant Hill. This is the worst Suns in 4 years or not?
2) I was talking about media-darling run-and-gun teams based on alley-oops, crazy shots and little defense. I know that the 80’s Pistons and 80’s Lakers had a PG as the star of the team, but no doubt that they were a more consistent team.
3) When I said “Celtics x Lakers is back” it was my predicition to the NBA Finals more than a month ago. I don’t see a long rivalry coming, and this prediction is largely based on my “feeling” that the NBA is eager to see this confrontantion again.
David Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 9:07 am
Kingsblade, please read my post where I apologized for writing “with” when I meant “without” — it was a typo
Richard Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 9:48 am
Celtics and Lakers will have to wait!!
bballer Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 10:28 am
i don’t get it. people keep saying that barbosa has no decision making skills. if anyone watched the basketball of americas tournament last year would see that barbosa played the point position very well. he may not be suited for the free flowing style in phx but then how much time does he get to run it in practice - i don’t know. i think the problem with the suns is d’antoni doesn’t have patience for anyone aside for nash and stoudemire.
diaw should have started for the suns all year and not old man hill. d’antoni wore him down by playoff time. dj strawberry should have received 10 mins per game all year backing up nash. the reason why the spurs are better because pops trusts the guys he brings in. noone plays more than 35 mins per game all season. this ensures that the entire team feels that they are involved in the spurs way of doing things. everyone knows their role and is comfortable with it. until d’antoni adjusts his way of thinking and try instilling some defensive principles with his team then the suns will just stall as the 6-8th seed next year and lose again in the first round.
in the offseason, the suns should draft their future centre and start diaw. they must decide if barbosa is a pg or a sg. once those decisions are made, then the suns can progress. i don’t think d’antoni is that smart, hence the 6-8th predictions for next year.
bballer Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 10:35 am
i have a problem with garnett and the national media clamouring for unselfish stars. if you want unselfish people then why are you living in a capitalistic society that fawns over the mighty individual. all sports are team games where the superstar elevates your entire team. jordan, russell, bird and magic are heralded for these reasons. garnett does not have a selfish enough streak to will his team to victory. he should have been calling out allen for continuously taking ill advised 3 pointers down the stretch of the game. allen shows why he has never won anything in the playoffs. instead of tying the game he jacks up a 3?????? wtf????? boston may prevail and still make it to the finals over the laissez-faire pistons but i will no longer be surprised if they don’t make it. someone on that celtic team needs to grow some cajones and take over that team. kobe and lebron states that as long as they are on the floor their team will always have a winning chance. who can or will say that with boston. atl players know that the hawks are joe johnson’s team, even with bibby taking idiotic shots.
atl, philly and charlotte are teams that people will have to fear next season. indy and miami will also be interesting. the east shall rise again.
koly tenguela Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 10:42 am
eddie,
could you gave us your thoughts about the spurs hornets series . I’m pretty much torn on that one because i really think that the hornets have more talent overall and a better bench but with defense, execution, experience, great coaching and probably one of the most underrated mvp ever the spurs seems to always found ways to win.
I think spurs in 7.
Lakers-jazz
the jazz had no one good enough for stopping tmac, they won’t be able to stop kobe too but they are not the nuggets, they are actually a true basketball team. Lakers in 6 cause of kobe’s will.
koly tenguela Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 11:01 am
pistons magic
I said before that they always play down to their level of competition and always have trouble against ultra athletic players (wade, james sixers) so i wasn’t surprised but i think that was the wake up call they needed. Pistons in 6.
celtics cavs
i assume celts are going to win game 7 while i still can’t believe they needed all that for beating the hawks. I’m very disappointed in them because i thought they were too hungry for making the mistake of being presomptuous. For them, it’s a wake up call too. They are a lot better than the cavs but if there’s a player in this league who can singlehandedly win a series, it’s lebron. Celts in 7
In case the haws make the impossible happen, i’m going with the cavs in 5.
koly tenguela Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 11:07 am
I have to recognize that i’m not very comfortable with my second round predictions because i really believe that the hornets , jazz and cavs could win their respective series but not the magic.
Michael Bennett Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 11:15 am
bballer - Your post is actually one of the most interesting I’ve ever read on here. I, too, have long thought of and explored the difference between society’s expectations of others compared to themselves. And, you translated that into basketball terms.
But, I will say that unselfish players like Garnett are great to watch. He actually does care about his team, and knows how to win, he’s just not the guy to hit the last second shot. LeBron is unselfish, too (13 assists last night), but he knows when to be selfish and take over. But, he ‘takes over’ in so many different ways - defense, passing, last shots, etc. So does Kobe.
Sunday, though, we will see a different Kevin Garnett. He’s going to come out with a ferocity that will be unmatched. He’ll will his team into winning and into Round 2.
Michael Bennett Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 11:17 am
So, koly - you’re back to square one, not really knowing who the f is going to win the series? When you ‘get comfortable’ with your picks, let us all know. We’re sooo excited to hear about them…
Michael Bennett Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 11:25 am
Who’s been the single best player in the Playoffs so far? Here’s my top 5:
5) Dwight Howard
4) Tony Parker
3) Chris Paul
2) Kobe Bryant
1) LeBron James
Before yesterday, I would have said Kobe or Chris Paul. But, LeBron shows again (and again) that he raises his level of play when it matters (27 pts, 13 rbs, 13 asts).
koly tenguela Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 11:54 am
Michael Bennett,
i was hoping you could come back with basketball arguments but …
Anyway, i actually would be interested in your thoughts (believe it or not) or anyone else thoughts about the second round cause that’s what it’s all about now.
Funny you are saying that i’m so excited when you are the one begging and imploring eddie all the time to write a column so you could came here and showcase your brilliance and everyone else’s stupidity. Is that the only one time when you feel like something in your life, seems so but considering you told us you are partying with celebrities all the time maybe it’s just an impression.
Your list for the single best player in the playoffs so far isn’t bad, no one could disagree with any of those picks but personnally i would have pick duncan, he has been great, is the foundation of everything they do and he hit the most important shot of this series ( but you are probably going to told me that you watch the whole 48 minutes and all the shots are the same so i’m a moron) and maybe of the entire playoffs if the spurs go all the way but that’s just nitpicking.
I’ve no problem with you,that’s basketball discussions not life and i’m so used of people who have big mouth and bravado behind a computer that i really don’t care. Told you, you can’t get under my skin, so put that away and just talk basketball with me if you allow me to challenge one or two of the certitudes of the great and only one michael bannett.
Rashidi Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 1:20 pm
For comparison, here’s the Spurs
Pts ALLOWED per 100 possessions
Barry: 106.2
Stoudamire: 104.4
Oberto: 104.2
Finley: 104.0
Parker: 102.8
Bowen: 102.7
Duncan: 102.5
Vaughn: 102.4
Ginobili: 101.7
Udoka: 101.7
Horry: 101.4
Elson: 101.1
Bonner: 100.4
Thomas: 100.2
They are obviously much tougher defensively than the Suns.
Pts per 100 possessions
Barry: 112.9
Ginobili: 111.0
Duncan: 110.9
Parker: 110.8
Finley: 109.6
Udoka: 108.9
Bowen: 108.0
Oberto: 105.7
Bonner: 105.6
Vaughn: 103.5
Thomas: 103.4
Elson: 103.2
Horry: 102.6
Stoudamire: 96.2
Obviously the Suns are far superior offensively. Damon Stoudamire is REALLY bad which is why Vaughn has played so much. Worst offensive player and 2nd worst defensive player.
Net pts per 100 possessions
Ginobili: +9.3
Parker: +8.0
Duncan: +7.6
Udoka: +7.2
Barry: +6.7
Finley: +5.6
Bowen: +5.3
Bonner: +5.2
Thomas: +3.2
Elson: +2.1
Oberto: +1.5
Horry: +1.2
Stoudamire: -8.2
Stoudamire is a terrible fit and likely would have made a bigger difference on the Suns. Udoka is primed to take Bowen’s place in the near future. The Spurs centers are all lined up at the bottom and while Kurt has been an upgrade, it hasn’t been a substantial one. Barry was the team’s worst defender but also a valuable offensive weapon. Due to injuries they haven’t been able to work him back in, but if that means more minutes for Ginobili, they haven’t suffered. He was only slightly better than Finley anyway.
Rashidi Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
Gabriel Chaud Said,
“1) I was talking about Shaq and Grant Hill. This is the worst Suns in 4 years or not?”
The team without Amare was worse but had an easier road through the playoffs. And I’d like to think this team was also better than the one that took the league by storm 4 years ago, the west was as good as it ever was this year. Four years ago the Suns had no bench and were starting Quentin Richardson. The Spurs beat them in five that year too, same as this year.
“2) I was talking about media-darling run-and-gun teams based on alley-oops, crazy shots and little defense.”
Okay, but you can’t include the Nets in that group, because they were a top 5 defensive team. Any fastbreaking they did was as a result of defensive rebounding and pushing it to Kidd.
The reason the Suns became a media darling is THEY WON 60+ GAMES with that strategy, something that had never been done before. The only close comparable were the J-Will Kings and they ended that once they traded for Bibby. Even as an exciting offensive team most of it was through the post with Webber and Divac.
The only team you were refering to was the Suns. There are no other teams like them.
“in the offseason, the suns should draft their future centre”
Right, because future centers are so often found in the middle/end of the first round? That’s where you find the likes of Jason Collins, Steven Hunter, etc. Any half-decent center is always taken in the lottery.
Michael Bennett Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 3:37 pm
Bring D’Antoni To Da Bulls!
This is exactly what the Bulls need. That’s why they were so successful against the Heat in last year’s sweep in the Playoffs. They were a fast paced, up and down, no holds barred team.
Kirk Hinrich would finally turn into the player he was meant to be, and he’d mirror what Steve Nash was doing. And, players like Luol Deng would thrive from a situation like this. It would allow him to get to the rim more often, which would get him to the foul line more, which is what sets up that sweet 18 footer.
And, a player like Joakim Noah, who most say is an undersized Center in the League, now would be the perfect size for D’Antoni’s run and gun small ball. He’ll fit like a glove into that system.
That’s what the Bulls need - an identity. The 76ers found it half way through the season, and they were spectacular. The Bulls need the same type of infused energy, and D’Antoni would bring that.
Start the petition, guys!
eddie Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 4:40 pm
I am pulling for the Hornets, but the Spurs just know how to win. i don’t see the Hornets winning in Texas, but i do see the Spurs getting a game in New Orleans.
Rashidi Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 4:55 pm
Michael Bennett said
“Kirk Hinrich would finally turn into the player he was meant to be, and he’d mirror what Steve Nash was doing.”
Right, because Hinrich has shown even a sliver of Nash’s court vision.
Nash in high school had better court vision than Hinrich, and that’s not a knock on Hinrich.
“And, players like Luol Deng would thrive from a situation like this. It would allow him to get to the rim more often, which would get him to the foul line more, which is what sets up that sweet 18 footer.”
Because if there’s anything we’ve learned from D’Antoni’s system, it’s that players without 3pt range thrive thrive thrive.
“And, a player like Joakim Noah, who most say is an undersized Center in the League, now would be the perfect size for D’Antoni’s run and gun small ball. He’ll fit like a glove into that system.”
Because D’Antoni loves centers who are limited offensively?
D’Antoni never uses guys like Noah. He’d be more likely to run with Drew Gooden at center, and he’d probably put Deng or Nocioni at PF.
Gordon and Nocioni are perfect for D’Antoni. Everyone else would be expendable.
D’Antoni would probably rather coach a team like the Knicks. D’Antoni hates posting up and Zach Randolph loves playing like a guard so that essentialy makes him Amare minus the athleticism in D’Antoni’s system. Marbury, Crawford, and Q-Rich (last thrived with D’Antoni) are all capable of running and launching threes, Nate Robinson is too. David Lee and Jared Jeffries are PFs that can run, Chandler and Balkman can too. The only player they’d have to dump is Curry.
bballer Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 5:20 pm
d’antoni is a sg killer for the suns. he would prefer 3 pt shooters over guys who can take it to the rim. i find it surprising that the suns refuse to place a joe johnson type player on the team. that is why i think barbosa should be a sg and start with either bell or diaw at sf. these slight changes will improve the overall flow of the team. i would have strawberry, hill, skinner and bell coming off the bench. the starters of nash, barbosa, stoud, shaq and diaw will continuously attack the rim and keep defenses on their heels. yeah, they may give up somethings defensively but teams will be too worried about barbosa streaking down the court in the beginning. the subs can present a more deliberate offense yet still utilize the speed of strawberry. what do you guys think?
bballer Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 5:33 pm
unselfishness in sports is lauded but overrated. like in society, without any pecking order, you will have anarchy.
with the spurs everyone knows it is td’s team yet the spurs is still seen as the ultimate team. ginoboli and parker exist to attack the rim and create offensive balance. bowen and thomas are the defensive specialists who will put up the occasional points. the spurs are well managed with splitter and mahimni being the heir apparent to td and thomas, udoka the next bowen. the spurs realize who is important to the success of the team and who isn’t. i know i’m stating the obvious but it doesn’t seem that way to other gm’s. why would denver pick up ai when they have carmelo? unless you make carmelo your pf, you create a sense of chaos offensively and defensively. teams that fail does not play with that sense of balance, including the celtics.
the celtics are pretty much the dallas mavericks who rely on their low post scoring coming from an inferior player in perkins/dampier. by not playing more of a low post game, kg leads his team to be perennial underachievers. if he wants to win, he has to play more as the centre instead of a big sf. dirk failed for the exact same reason. plus, kg needs to demand the ball. the real offensive leader of that team still seems like pierce. when he was out, the offense struggled to get easy points relying too much on jump shots.
atlanta gets low post scoring from horford. they have a driving sg in johnson and a defensive specialist in josh smith. experience wise the team should not be where they are but skill and talent wise, plus with defined leadership and roles they are the better team despite the hall of famers with the celtics.
teams with the best sense of balance left in the playoffs: spurs, lakers, hornets, detroit, orlando and atlanta. so logically the finals should be spurs/detroit but i’ll play the emotional game - celtics vs. spurs. the celtics is the sexy pick but common sense should have predicted their demise.
Michael Bennett Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 7:59 pm
You’re overlooking LeBron and the Cavs. And, that’s fine. Everyone did last year. But, when a team has a player like LeBron James, you can never count them out. They are still the Eastern Conference Champs until some team dethrones them. And, looking at the Celtics’ struggles, and the Pistons are essentially the same team, who says any team will?
bballer - I think you raise pretty good topics, but you’re breakdown and analysis is borderline insane. You’re waaay off.
Michael Bennett Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 8:03 pm
And, Rashidi - It’s impossible to even argue with you. You’re arguing on some level that doesn’t even exist to the rest of us. So diluted and subjective. I think I’ve said it before, but I feel bad for your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/whoever:
wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/whoever: “Rashidi, what do you want for breakfast?”
Rashidi: “Well, it’s not really breakfast because technically in 1990-1997 breakfasts would be considered blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,.
wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/whoever: “So… You want breakfast or not? JUST GIVE ME A STRAIGHT ANSWER!!!”
koly tenguela Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 8:59 pm
This blog is so funny.
NBA ” where amazing happens”
Eddie’s blog ” where amazing is justified”
bballer Said,
May 3, 2008 @ 10:48 pm
how are my analysis insane? go back and track nba championship teams and you will notice how similar those teams are in composition. the only anomaly you will find are the Michael jordan led teams. the celtics, pistons and lakers of the 80’s, houston rockets,the spurs, the lakers, the heat and even detroit had similar constructions of their teams. the triangle offense and the way the phil jackson loves his teams to be constructed is based on that principle. all players playing fully understanding their roles.
I didn’t include cleveland since they do not have a strong enough defensive player at that wing position. cleveland got killed by ginoboli and parker in the finals. cleveland will have problems with the wing players of boston or atl. in the offseason, don’t be surprised if cleveland will go after pietrus, kirk snyder or a player of that ilk for the reasons i have outlined. bball, like life has its ebbs and flows based on very balanced principles. when those principles are compromised like the 2003? lakers with malone, kobe, shaq and payton, things were out of whack. malone’s role was to be a rebounder and defensive player primarily and then a scorer when shaq was off the court. but he couldn’t deal with that in his mind.
when kg and perkins is not on the court, the celtics has no low post presence leading to confusion with the offensive sets. that happened throughout game 6. kg or perkins need to be on the court at all time for the celts to defeat atl in game 7.
anyway, don’t believe anything i say. just go up and down nba rosters, specifically with winning teams and you will recognize what i saw.
Rashidi Said,
May 4, 2008 @ 3:48 am
INTERNET TROLL
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
Kingsblade Said,
May 4, 2008 @ 10:45 am
bballer:
“allen shows why he has never won anything in the playoffs. instead of tying the game he jacks up a 3?????? wtf?????”
First, Allen has lead a team to the conference finals, and most would consider that equal to having won something in the playoffs, even if there was no championship. There is less players than you might think who can make that claim. Second, Allen shooting a 3 is as good an option as most players shooting from almost anywhere.
Michael Bennett Said,
May 4, 2008 @ 10:48 am
IDIOT
An idiot is a feebleminded, silly, foolish and ignorant person.
Rashidi Said,
May 4, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
Glad to see you’ve reached a beginners level of self-awareness!
Michael Bennett Said,
May 4, 2008 @ 3:36 pm
Glad to see you’re still preDICKtable!
Zane Said,
May 4, 2008 @ 10:35 pm
GAME 6 BYE BYE WIZARDS
FACE IT YOU GOT LUCKY IN GAME 5
Lebron, had a triple double and the game sealed by the end of the 3rd quarter!
Wizards, more dirty tactics and trash talk that they can’t back up…
Maybe next year they oughta save the trash talk for a team that they can actually beat in the playoffs, 3 years in a row baby
WIZARDS ARE A BUNCH OF HALFWIT FOOLS WITH NO GAME
bballer Said,
May 5, 2008 @ 7:41 am
allen was 1-8 in game 6. when your outside shot is not hitting, take it to the hoop. boston needed a tie to force the issue. the recovered in game 7. boston may go on to win the nba championship but too many mental mistakes were made. kg may be celebrated as the leader of the team but paul pierce is the go to guy in crunch time. even though i do not love his game, i have confidence that he will take it to the hoop when it matters.
Kingsblade Said,
May 5, 2008 @ 1:08 pm
I suppose then we are simply looking at a difference in philosophy. You would rather go for the tie, I think that if a shooter like Allen has a good look then he should take it and play for the win. Shooters like him do not are not affected by previous misses and I do not see his earlier misses as a factor. Plus fouls are rarely called during the endgame and it is often harder to get a good shot off going to the basket because you will get fouled, and I may not get called. My feeling on the situation is you are looking for the best shot, and Allen taking a 3 is a good shot.
There is nothing wrong with your conservative outlook either I suppose, but it will be impossible for us to agree.
LeBron James Said,
May 5, 2008 @ 4:54 pm
Did I already say that? He is just so in love with me I can’t think straight.
Rashidi Said,
May 6, 2008 @ 1:12 am
Generally the rule is that when you’re down two at home you go for OT, and on the road you go for the win.
Michael Bennett Said,
May 6, 2008 @ 1:15 pm
THIS is what I’m talking about - what ‘rule’? Where do you get this information from, Rashidi? You’re so full of shiite.
There’s no ‘rule’ on something like that. It differs from coach to coach, player to player. In the March game versus the Wizards, the Cavs were down by 2 points. And, LeBron decided to shoot a 3 because he “just wanted to go home”. He didn’t abide by some ‘rule’. He just didn’t want to play OT.
You pass yourself off as some sort of expert because you can read (and regurgitate) numbers and stats, but the Game is all about reading between the lines. It’s about the intangibles. It’s more art than science.
Any pencil-pushing fool can research stats…
Richard Said,
May 6, 2008 @ 5:49 pm
Hey,
I’m with the Spurs all the way. I believed they would win their first back to back title this season. After watching the first two games against the Hornets, I find very little confidence in my statements. The Hornets in the second halves have looked younger and fresher and the Spurs really look old and tired against this club. The only thing left is for home cooking and if that doesn’t bring out the legs in the old Spurs boys then my hat goes off to this team. I like them anyway but I am for the Spurs. It’s hard to say but I’ll keep watch for game 3. Make or break.
bballer Said,
May 7, 2008 @ 7:19 am
why do people keep calling the spurs old when duncan and ginoboli are the same ages as stojokavic and mopete and parker is only 2 years older than cp3. yeah the role players are older but aside from kurt thomas they only play 15mins per game. anyway, the problem with the spurs is basically the same problem with detroit. this series they are not showing the hunger they had in the last series to dominate. people are even trying to say their run is over. for a normal franchise that is true. the spurs are not normal.
the spurs draft well and manage the cap well. they are just one young wing player from staying a part of the elite. this loss will just stimulate them to allow horry, barry and finley to retire as they wanted to last year. they’ll keep oberto and thomas as they bring on mahinmi and splitter. i can see the spurs competing with the lakers, blazers, hornets and jazz for the next 5 years as td will join ginoboli as a player coming off the bench.
Richard Said,
May 7, 2008 @ 10:43 am
bballer
As a spurs fan I see a team that looks slower in the second half at both ends so I understand why people say the are old. I stated that they LOOK older because that’s the best description I can assess. I’m not in the locker room nor on the court but I can watch the game a make a generalization. Could injuries be a problem, sure but over all they LOOK slower than the more youthful Hornets.
Can it be changed? who knows at this stage but hopefully yes.
Michael Bennett Said,
May 7, 2008 @ 1:13 pm
Oh yeah, Rashidi - Down 2 points IN Boston with 8 seconds left, LeBron decides to go for the 2 to tie. So, there goes your system.
Kingsblade Said,
May 7, 2008 @ 6:32 pm
bballer:
Do you really think the Hornets don’t have a serious youth advantage? Lets have a look at the players. Starters and the 3 bench players who have logged the most minutes to date during the playoffs.
PG: Parker - 25 (26 in less than 2 weeks)
Paul - 22
SG: I will give you Ginobili here because he plays more minutes, even if Finley starts…so:
Ginobili - 30
Peterson: -30
SF: Bowen - 36
Peja - 30
PF: Duncan - 32
West - 27
C: Thomas - 35
Chandler - 25
Next 3: Finley - 35 Wells - 31
Oberto - 33 vs. Pargo - 28
Barry - 36 Wright - 20
Parker and Paul are close enough, and Ginobili and Peterson are the same age, but in every other position the difference is quite noticeable…and these are not the guys not playing, these are the top 8 playoff minute logger for each team.
If you don’t think this age difference is a factor then you do not understand sports at all. True they have more experience, and true that their 3 main players are still young enough, but unfortunately these three cannot play defense by themselves. Unfortunately there are other people on the team that seem to be getting tired in the second half of these games.
Now they could turn this all around at home and the point becomes moot, but to try and claim that the Hornets are not really much younger is silly when they are obviously much much younger.
Wells is the oldest player getting minutes for NO and he is younger than 6 of the top 8 players for SA.
Michael Bennett Said,
May 8, 2008 @ 9:22 am
Eddie - If you get the Suns head coaching job, can you hire me as an assistant? My job will be to razz the other players and take them out of their game.
Richard Said,
May 8, 2008 @ 10:27 am
Eddie,
I wish you the best at the Suns head coaching position. Your knowledge of the game is there, your predictions aren’t,lol. All kidding aside good luck.
bballer Said,
May 8, 2008 @ 12:31 pm
who cares about the age advantage/disadvantage. jordan didn’t win his first title until he was 28 and his last one @ 35. his teammates were equal to his age. so in that terms, the spurs are not old. they still have a few years left in them. it is not only this series that boggles my mind when people talk about older teams, it is like people are saying the window for them to continue winning championships have closed. this is ridiculous. as long as the spurs build around the big 3 and then look to replace them, as they are doing now, the spurs should always be considered top title contenders. people just hate the spurs, yet the just keep on winning.
bballer Said,
May 8, 2008 @ 12:41 pm
in addition, following your train of thought, the hornets would have a youth advantage over the lakers since kobe, fisher and gasol are 29, 32 and 27. thus, it would be hard for the lakers to keep up with the young hornets. the failure of the spurs in losing to the hornets is not an age factor. it is not making the right adjustments to deal with the hornets. they made the proper adjustments in the past to deal with the speedier suns, they just have to do the same now. it is the same thing the celtics had to do with the younger, athletic hawks.
finally, udoka plays more than barry. so in most cases, the difference is 5 years. most people say that bballers enter the prime from 28 - 33, as was the case for jordan. so for the spurs, all of their players aside from bowen, finley and thomas are in their nba prime. since thomas and bowen are more defensive players and have high basketball iq’s, they know how to deal with that age disparity. again, other examples are found in the east with detroit and boston. there are reasons why people always pick veteran teams to win and for obvious reasons.
Kingsblade Said,
May 8, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
Barry has logged more playoff minutes than Udoka. That may change tonight since they are hoping Udoka can provide some more defense, but as of right now Barry has more playoff minutes. Udoka played a whopping 1:47 in game one before getting 24 minutes in game 2. In round one he average something like 11 or 12 minutes a game, but he wasn’t even close to Barry’s minutes until his big game the other night.
However you missed my point entirely. I didn’t write that post because I thought the Spurs were to old to win, I wrote it because you wrote a post trying to pretend that the Spurs were not much older than the Hornets, which is ridiculous.
The Lakers comparison is just ignorant as well, and you are obviously grasping to go that route. Obviously it is just ridiculous to claim that what I said for 30-something players also applies to players in their late 20’s.
The Bulls were not as old as the Spurs either. Jordan was 35 and Rodman was 36 or 37, but nobody else was over 32.
Furthermore, why do you think that the only the age of stars matters? Don’t other players have to defend and rebound? Don’t other players on the floor have to keep up? Why do you think that defensive specialists age better than others? True a good IQ matters, but defense takes much more out of you that offense does.
bballer Said,
May 8, 2008 @ 7:04 pm
it is not if defense takes a lot out of you are not, but it is how the spurs defines the roles of everyone that comes to the team. i don’t think they are losing because of their age. the spurs just need to adjust to take away some of the strengths of the hornets. i also feel that if they lose, they took the team too lightly like detroit took cleveland lightly as well. to touch on cleveland, they were younger and more athletic but the spurs adjusted well. i truly do believe regardless of what happens this year, the spurs will retool around the big three, work towards finding their heirs, retire some of the older guys and get back to the finals. the did it after dumping rasho and nazr when people said the game was passing them by and they will do so again. this current spurs team still has 4 years and 1-2 championships left in them. their experience will guide them to that.
oh that bulls team, harper, kerr, wennington, kukoc, randy brown and pippen, jordan and rodman were 30 and over when they won in 1998. those days, guys were known to be in their prime. that is why people think detroit and boston will emerge from the east. they are talented, experienced and in their prime with most of the nucleus being over 30. all these guys were older than the current spurs. all i’m saying is that these teams are not that old. over 28 in pro sports whether you are the patriots, red sox or chelsea is not old. ask ernie if he was old years 10 - 14 in the nba. (years 15-17 he played old).
Kingsblade Said,
May 9, 2008 @ 12:57 am
Do you even bother to read what I wrote?
1. I will repeat myself once again…I have not even once said that the Spurs are losing because of their age. I will also repeat myself when I say that I only brought it up because you made the argument that they are not old, when they clearly are. If you bothered to read my posts you would have noticed the part where I mentioned there was a good chance the Spurs would step up at home. (which they did with a hell of a game tonight)
2. Do you really think Cleveland was more athletic than San Antonio? LeBron was, but other than him they were not exactly a bunch of Gazelles running around out there.
3. I wrote that 32 is not really part of a players prime, as it is about the age where decline starts to set in. Not only that, earlier I mentioned that guys on the Lakers who were in their late 20’s were not old. So why are you arguing with me now by telling me that guys over 28 are not old? What does that have to do with my statement about being 32? Doesn’t that pretty much fit nicely in line with what I have already said? You are saying that being 28 is not old while defending the age of a team where only one guy 28 or younger plays any minutes. Try an argument that at least has some basis in logic. Where did you even come up with that number? Nobody anywhere has said anything close to claiming that 28 was old.
I also write that most of the Bulls besides Jordan and Rodman were under 32, so you decide that an appropriate argument is to tell me that they were ove 30? No shit….thats why I said 32. (Though I meant to type 33 lol). They were not however, 35 or 36 like many of the Spurs. (Though admittedly I forgot about Harper, who was 34) Only Jordan and Rodman were that old, and if you don’t think Jordan was a bit of an exception to the norm then you don’t know the game. Do you really not recognize that in the sports world 36 is significantly older than 33?
Why do you keep talking as though 30 is the benchmark, when the age of most of these guys is well over that? Not to mention the fact that I never said 30 was old. If they were like 30-33 years old we would not likely even be having this conversation.
Simply put….While Ginobili is not old and Parker is still young, Duncan is hitting the point where his age will start to show, and the rest of the team (that play any significant minutes) are already on the decline. This is a fact, obvious to everyone but you. If they can change that next year then good for them, but I do not see how that has any bearing on this year.
Good game tonight though. When I see Ginobili or Parker I automatically wish I could punch them, but they were sure good tonight.
Kingsblade Said,
May 9, 2008 @ 12:58 am
whoops, sorry about the essay….its late and I ramble when I need sleep.
bballer Said,
May 9, 2008 @ 7:15 am
all i am saying is that when you listen to most sports analysts they often mention that athletes enter their prime at 28. the prime years is known for athletes to be 28-33, whether it is basketball, baseball, football or hockey. those aren’t my words, it is the thoughts that i have heard from commentators over the last 20 years. most athletes usually had great winning seasons around that time of their lives whether it was jordan, john elway or the stevie y. the core players of the team usually have an alignment of athleticism and basketball iq where the game finally makes sense. that is why commentators usually state that young teams have a hard time winning since they haven’t figured out how to win. with that in mind and bearing in fact who the core of the team is, i simply stated that the spurs are not old.
it doesn’t matter as much as the role players as it is to the core of the team. in fact, the celtics and the pistons core players are older than the spurs core players but the old label is not subscribed to them as much as it is the spurs. based on that reasoning alone is why i dismiss any notion of the spurs being old. the team may be the oldest on average but i look at the core, the big 3 and make my judgments from there. anyways, i don’t know why i spent so much time on this. this topic isn’t that interesting. i guess we may have an “old” peoples nba finals.
Kingsblade Said,
May 9, 2008 @ 11:06 am
As far as I have ever heard an athletes prime is considered to be 27-31.
I don’t know why you think role players ages don’t matter as much. As often as not it is role players with key defensive assignments. Defense is much harder to player than offense. They also still have to get up and down the court…quickly because Paul is pushing the ball. It is as though you think that three guys matter and the other guys can just stand around. Unfortunately thats not how basketball works. They need to be working as hard or harder than the core players do.
Plus, by your definition the only player on the Celtics past his prime is Cassell, who is not playing all that many minutes, and for Detroit it is only Rasheed and McDyess who are both 34.
It is like you and I are not even in the same argument….I am saying that guys who are 35 and up are old, and you keep coming back by saying that guys who are over 28 are not old. Do you see the disjunction there?
It is true that both Boston and Detroit have plenty of veterans, but they are also still younger than the old guard playing for SA. Once you hit that age a couple years can make a big difference. There is no doubt that these guys are now reaching the point where they have STARTED to decline, just like I said about Duncan, but the old guys for SA have been slowly declining for 4 or 5 years now.
bballer Said,
May 9, 2008 @ 12:15 pm
we are in the same argument. since i mainly focus on the big 3, only duncan will be at the cusp of his prime. but who knows, he may end up playing like kareem into his 40’s. the big 3 for san antonio accounts for about 60% of their scoring. i just think the role players play their roles perfectly thus even though they exude a lot of energy defensively, they don’t have to worry about offense as much. this is what makes the spurs great. finley only is the only role player who has to score and they only expect 9ppg from him, while above average attempt at defense is expected. when he is on the court ginoboli becomes the defensive stopper.
but as you say the old guys have been declining for so long but remember oberto joined the team last year and thomas this year. all but the big 3 were replaceable. as duncan is on the back end of their career, they have found his replacement with mahimni. thomas will be replaced with splitter. the spurs hoped that m. williams was going to stick but will draft a sg in the ‘08 draft. parker has yet to enter his prime so the spurs wouldn’t need to find his replacement until the ‘10 draft.
Kingsblade Said,
May 10, 2008 @ 11:24 am
Like I already said…if they replace them all next year then good for them, but it has no bearing on this years playoffs whatsoever.
Offense is easy (in terms of energy expended of course…not in execution). It is defense that burns energy, which is why scorers tend to age better than role players. Offensive players who rely entirely on athleticism are another story, but any offensive player worth his salt has more going for him than just athleticism.
Offense just doesn’t take as much out of you. It’s not even close.
Michael Bennett Said,
May 11, 2008 @ 1:34 pm
Eddie - You should write an article about what it’s like to be in the race for the coaching spot for one of the biggest and best franchises in sports.
Or, how D’Antoni would have been a better fit with the Bulls.
Or, how Van Gundy should now be the Bulls coach.
Whatever you write next, make sure it’s not about LeBron’s shooting woes in the Conference Semis. No matter what…
Michael Bennett Said,
May 13, 2008 @ 8:58 am
LeBron, LeBron, LeBron, LeBron, LeBron, LeBron, LeBron, LeBron, LeBron, LeBron!!!
Michael Bennett Said,
May 16, 2008 @ 12:43 pm
If anybody’s still on here…
Because of Daniel Gibson’s shoulder injury, the Cavs should play with THIS lineup when Delonte West is resting (all other things considered):
PG - LeBron James
SG - Sasha Pavlovic
SF - Wally Szczerbiak
PF - Joe Smith
C - Anderson Varejao
They should go big. Pavlovic can guard either Cassell or Rondo in this set, as he’s done before when the Cavs have gone big with him in the starting lineup last year.
So, same starting lineup of:
PG - Delonte West
SG - Wally Szczerbiak
SF - LeBron James
PF - Ben Wallace
C - Zydrunas Ilgauskus
The Cavs need to use LeBron as a true point guard when West is out. It’ll provide match-up nightmares, it will space the floor better, and it’s a different look for the Celtic’s defense, but essentially the same as when LeBron runs the offense or carries the ball up. Only, with this set, there’s no OTHER PG on the court. LeBron would be the PG.
Let’s see how Mike Brown adapts… IF he does at all. The answer is not playing Damon Jones more. I love Damon Jones, but he’s not in playing shape right now.
oilwell drilling Said,
June 18, 2008 @ 9:42 pm
oilwell drilling…
Man i love reading your blog, interesting posts !…