Mavs have now become the Suns of old
The Dallas Mavericks have now joined the party that the Lakers and Suns started a few weeks ago. Although I love Jason Kidd and he will undoubtedly make the Mavericks a more focused and tougher team, I don’t think it will put them in the rarified air of Phoenix, Los Angeles and San Antonio and for one specific reason only… They still have no interior offensive threat that will get them consistent inside points and force teams to double team, thus allowing Dirk Nowitzki and Josh Howard to flourish.
Kidd will definitely get them better shots, but the question is… Will he still allow them to get more possessions? Yes, he is probably the best rebounding pure point guard in the history of the NBA and a walking triple-double threat every time he hits the floor, but losing DeSagana Diop in the deal has effectively taken away a long defender and a rebounding asset the Mavericks will need against the Lakers, Suns and Spurs.
Erick Dampier will have to really step his game up to levels we have not seen and that scenario must have Avery Johnson worried. Brandon Bass has been a nice surprise, but they cannot count on an unproven player come playoff time – especially against Tim Duncan, Shaquille O’Neal and Pau Gasol.
The Mavericks have now become the Phoenix Suns pre-Shaq. They will have to up-tempo the game to crazy levels to stay out of half-court situations.
Case in point… Who will Dirk Nowitzki guard on the Suns? They use to hide him on Shawn Marion, but that will not work on Grant Hill or Boris Diaw because both can take him away from the basket and make him defend against dribble penetration. Plus it effectively takes him off the defensive glass, thus making them vulnerable with only Dampier to rebound. Avery will have no choice but to put Dirk on Amare or Shaq and that scenario spells trouble for the Mavericks.
The same applies to the Lakers with Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol with Lamar Odom at small forward. Avery will have to guard Bynum with Dirk because there’s no way can he defend Odom. The Spurs don’t create that much of a problem with only Duncan in the interior, but San Antonio will offset it with the great defense Bruce Bowen plays on Dirk.
Dallas will now have to rely on fast pace and quick shots to have any chance against not only the three teams I mentioned, but the New Orleans Hornets and Utah Jazz as well.
The Mavericks and the Warriors are now like mirror images and I don’t think either has the edge against the height and strength of the top teams in a seven-game series. But any given night, when they catch fire, they are going to look awfully good.
If the Suns have admitted that form of ball is pretty but not conducive to a championship. Why would the Mavericks take the same approach?
I must admit that it will be fun watching it all develop because Jason Kidd is the real deal on both ends of the court.
Welcome to the Wild Wild West.
Brandon Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 6:53 pm
Eddie…Eddie…Eddie… You have fallen too much in love with the charm of Shaq. If you’ll look at the numbers…the mavs are gaining more rebounds in their new player than the suns are in theirs. also…if you compare the outgoing point guard (devin harris) with the incoming point guard (jason kidd) their numbers in most categories are almost identical. kidd almost quadruples devin in rebounds, and doubles him in assists (the two most notable statistical categories). If you want to say “but harris is so much younger than kidd”. I would offer to you that yes…kidd is much older…but the mavs window for winning is at most 3 years…much like Phoenix’s with Shaq and Nash. So Kidd gives the Mavs the best chance to win in their window. It would be nice to have Harris as the point guard of the future…but I’ll take a title over 5 years of playoff basketball anyday.
also…if you compare the stats of Malik Allen and DeSagana Diop…you get close to a push as well. Diop has about 2 inches and a blocked shot a game more than Allen. So…if Allen can come in and contribute at the clip he was averaging in New Jersey…this trade is basically a push.
I think the Mavs will stack up a lot better with the Spurs and Suns (who…according to their players and coaches say they won’t change their style just because of Shaq…meaning they will remain a run and gun team) and with the question marks surrounding Kobe and Andrew Bynum…I think the Mavericks have just as much of a shot in the suddenly “big man loaded west” than do anyone else.
Stefan Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 7:08 pm
Eddie,
The situation you describe with the Mavs not having enough inside presence makes a ton of sense. Do you think they foresee this and are possibly in the process of making an attempt to acquire a big man to play D and rebound? Does Kurt Thomas qualify? How about Chris Wilcox?
Thanks, Peace,
Stefan
Andrew Clark Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 7:09 pm
Eddie, love ya man, but after the way we just watched you shoot with the lights on i don’t know if we can respect anything you say anymore
George Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 7:21 pm
brandon the thing is the suns get more of their weaknesses corrected with shaq than the mavs do with kidd. Kidd will make them more productive but the shaq trade if hes healthy enough to compete will correct the suns problems. The suns needed a guy to come in, and well lead them in the playoffs. every team needs that one guy who wants the ball and takes on the challenge of not taking a loss. The mavs still need another piece to win. jason kidd with the mavs will make them fun to watch and im all for it myself, but i dont think he will have the impact pau or shaq has on their new teams.
Harry Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 7:26 pm
How is Shaq going to stay out of foul trouble?
Is Shaq going to learn how to rebound again?
Is Gasol going to suddenly NOT be soft inside?
Who on Los Angeles and Phoenix is going to guard Jason Kidd especially when he’s paired with Jason Terry, who can act as a secondary point if teams cheat on Kidd?
Where is the depth for the Lakers or the Suns?
How is Bynum going to come back from his injury?
Where was the Dallas interior scoring before the Kidd deal?
How was Diop THAT vital to the team, when he was third in the depth chart behind Dampier and Bass anyway?
How will Odom keep up with Josh Howard, whose much quicker than he is, and a better defender?
I’m glad you didn’t at least try to make this article about Devin being better than Kidd, as many others have claimed. I’ve followed Devin’s game and loved what he brought to the Mavs, but I don’t see him being much better than a Derek Harper type of point guard down the road. Good but never great.
I really don’t see how the trade hurt the Mavs that much. And I honestly don’t think you can say the Lakers or the Suns are any better off now than they were before, as the Lakers are hurt, and the Suns essentially gave up their best defender and rebounder to bring in a guy who hasn’t played top level defense in half a decade. I think the real question is how does this make the Mavs better against the Spurs and Jazz. But then, you’re pretty west coast centric…
jmaaan Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 7:54 pm
Agreed, Dirk can’t play the 5 and have Dallas go far in the playoffs. I think this trade was better for Dallas than the one originally proposed but Diop was a bigger loss that people might realize. Without him Dallas loses a big strong presence in the middle. Dirk is a 4 and should be matched up against Gasol, Amare, etc.
I also agree that defensively this should help the backcourt. Not only is Kidd stronger than Harris but with Terry at 2, it helps add size. Defensively Kidd might be guarding 2’s where Harris couldn’t. Interestingly, in terms of youth, I think the other overlooked player is Wright. He’s developing a bit and could certainly take over for Stackhouse or Jones one day.
I think it makes them stronger, but doesn’t put them over the top. Eddie, you’re right, Dallas needs to add size up front still to be considered a serious contender.
eddie Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 8:06 pm
if you are telling me that jason is a better rebounder than Shaq ? Listen Jason is the best secondary rebounder in the game. that means rebounds outside the dotted line, not in the paint. please don’t mix those two areas.
Diop is long and strong—Malik will be weak against any of those guys.
The Mavericks have one big man in Dampier and it means trouble for Dirk because he will have to guard those players down the stretch.
eddie Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 8:06 pm
Stefan
they definitely could use Kurt Thomas
Melvin Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 8:07 pm
You’re absolutely right Eddie. This one reminds me of Dallas when they acquired Antoine Walker and placed him at the center position. But I just believe that Dallas can make adjustments to it. I worship Avery for being intelligent and I think he can make something with it. Let’s just join the Mavs on celebrating it even for just the shortest time possible..
http://basketballnonsense.blogspot.com/2008/02/jason-kidd-is-like-cheese-on-macaroni.html
Melvin Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 8:09 pm
And also I want to say Van Horn rocks more making more than a 100 million dollars for underachieving
eddie Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 8:17 pm
yes nothing like making 4.3 million for 30 days of work. only in America——well i change that –only in the NBA——-I LOVE THIS GAME
Matt Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 8:24 pm
Edward-
They must think Bass can do what Diop was doing for them. I can’t wait to see who they will have Dirk guard when we play them. I really don’t see how this improves them when the playoffs role around, Jason is a liability if he has to shoot the ball in the half court in the same way Shawn has been for the Suns come playoff time. Or how you were our liability during the team competition on Saturday…… kidding, we love you here man.
Jeff Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 8:34 pm
Eddie, The Mavs wont have to face all three of those teams in the playoffs. Everyone is making a big deal about the Mavs backup center, who is the backup center for the spurs, and the lakers. The Mavs have a chance. Rememeber no one thought the Giants could win the Superbowl, but they did!
Rey Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 9:00 pm
The Mavs deserved to win 2 seasons ago… they didn’t lose any major contributor and no one has really regressed. Now you add Kidd… I think they have as good a shot as anyone else. I really don’t know what to expect from the Lakers (Kobe’s health) or the Suns (I jsut don’t know what to expect from Shaq)….. SA has a shot too… it will be interesting…
BullsNut Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 9:05 pm
…and we saw post-eddie johnson all star night.
The chance of Shaq being the difference maker and leading suns to championship is as good as Bulls (if they make playoffs) chances of getting past first round. I have faith though as you should too.
Oh yeah everything relates to the Bulls.
Jared Culpepper Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 9:09 pm
Brandon Bass isn’t getting alot of respect, but in the second half of the season, people will realize he’s a legit–if small–center.
Mavs are MUCH better now.
Kemal Budak Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 9:09 pm
Hi Eddie,
Nice article.. I think that before the trade Dallas was a team that didn’t know what to play. Small ball and up-tempo or big ball and half-court. Now at least they decided that they are gonna run. Ribaunding won’t be a serious problem but I do think that as you have just expressed they do not have any interior presence in terms of offense and they will solely be a jump-shot team. Of course even when Diop was there they weren’t good enough to catch up with the big teams. Now let’s hope that TD, Bynum (or Gasol), Amare-Shaq will face some health problems in order to facilitate the Finals for Dallas :)) Even after that you can’t be sure against Detroit or Boston or any other team coming from the East.
All in all, I’m hopeful that they can do something to get rid of the lack of interior player. I don’t like Dallas so much but I do like Kidd a lot, so I have some mixed feelings. I have made up my mind that I will not be sorry for them in case of any failure, but I will feel the joy ih they achieve something…
jason Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 9:32 pm
Hey Eddie,
Do you think that the Mavs will make a run for the Clippers’ Chris Kaman?
jason Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 10:21 pm
To be honest I think Jason kidd can`t slow down Tony Parker and I think Parker can contain Jason enough to help the spurs but Nash & Kidd are basically the same Shaq can`t keep up and dalla bench is better then Phoenix the lakers health is the big question mark can bynum come back and will that finger hurt kobe so to me the teams to worry about is Denver and New Orleans because their young with good point guards and a bench with offence at all five spots so dallas just didn’t do enough 2 win a title
Michael Kukich Said,
February 19, 2008 @ 11:07 pm
I agree with you Eddie, while Jason is stil a good point guard, he is 35 and cannot stay with all of the speed demons out West. So now what does Avery do with his line-up and rotations to compensate? He can no longer start SFs like Eddie Jones, Devean George or Stackhouse alongside of Kidd because who will guard the point? That means 6th man Jason Terry will have to start because he is the only one capable of staying with the points out West. Kidd also shoots an abominable 36%.
Now they have that hole in the middle w/o Diop and we all know Dirk is not a post defender nor does he protect the rim very well and Bass is only 6′-8″. Dampier only plays 22 minutes now and only shows up every fourth game or so.
Then you consider the extremely steep price for a 35 year-old point:
Former #5 pick & 24 year-old Harris, 1st rd pick this year & in 2010, young SG Maurice Ager, SG Trenton Hassell, $3 million in cash plus another $4 million in luxury tax for re-signing Van Horn before the trade. That is a lot for a high-mileage 35 year-old point.
Blanco Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 12:15 am
Nice post Kemal. What was Dallas really before this trade? They were a jump shooting team that relied on their sets to get them open shoots since harris had not yet developed into the distributing point guard they needed. Its a weak system that needed needed one man to show how it could be beaten (nellie).
Kidd will not only get them running on breaks, but in the half court he will find the open man. JET is a very good defender btw, and Kidd should be a rugged enough defender to deal with most shooting guards in the west. As Eddie said though, their interior is going to be expoloited badly. If Dampier gets hurt or can only play 24 minutes a game, their toast. Bynum, Shaq/amare, Duncan, Yao, and Boozer will go off on them for 35 points easily. Just like Eddie said, they will be the Suns before Shaq (remember Bynum, Kaman, and Yao eating them apart?). Any hope for a Kurt thomas or such is gone since what do they have left to trade?
C-Dampier-Malik Allen-Juwan
PF-Dirk-Bass
SF-Howard-Eddie Jones
SG-JET-Stack
PG-Kidd-Barea
Weak bench. Hopeful Juwan howard can find the fountain of youth, because Allen has always been submediocre in everything but a decent med range jumper. Its also to bad they didn’t hold onto DMenga. He would be a nice big body to take 6 fouls. Barea is undersized, but has torn up the D-league. Perhaps Kidd can tutor him to be decent?
LBJ Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 12:32 am
The Mavs look like they are back tracking. I do remember when they had Walker. Heck I remember when they had Jamison. And Van Excel too!! They were fun to watch then and they will be fun to watch now as well. Jason Kidd is so good at what he does. He’s going to push the ball and help them get easier shots but I don’t know if they’ll be much better. They really needed to add an inside scorer to there team. They were okay with the guards they already had in place. But Mark Cuban had to get into the fray right?!
Eddie do you remember the short period of time when the Suns had KJ, Kidd and Nash all on the roster?!
Blanco Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 12:35 am
On a side note, as a Laker fan for life, Eddie, you think Lamar Odom is going to have a field day playing SF? Think about how much bigger he is than say Grant Hill, Josh Howard, and Bruce Bowen? I think this is going to help alot like when the heat had antoine walker at the SF. Prince was forced to guard him instead of Wade because Rip was to small. This freed Wade up alot and he dominated. With Bowen tied up on Odom because manu is only 6′5″, Kobe should, if healthy, do alot better against the Spurs.
aaron Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 12:59 am
eddie, you are really underestimating dirk’s defense or you don’t watch him much. he can certainly guard the guys you mentioned without many problems. i’ve been a mavs fan for a long time and dirk guards duncan as well as anyone out there. he has also had no problems in the past guarding Odom and has always guarded odom when they played la
sean coon Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 1:01 am
big nets fan here — we made out like bandits.
we’re now stacked with athletic bigs, two highly capable young pg’s, a scorer in jefferson and the best damn gm in the league.
word is that thorn is now trying to dump carter on the knicks in a 3-way trade to get the expiring contracts of white choc and ricky davis from the heat.
if he pulls that off, we’re young, talented and under the cap…
as for jkidd, he’s the goods. don’t sleep on what he can bring to a team. diop never averaged 30 - 35 minutes, so that meme is bogus, eddie. kidd will make *everyone* around him better.
Chris Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 1:18 am
Okay so, are you forgetting this is the same Mavs teet that went 67 and 15 last season. To say the Mavs arent hanging with the Suns, Lakers, or Spurs… good lord…look at the head to head stats between the Mavs and those 3 teams over the last three seasons. They have blown away any notion of the Lakers staking a claim…last season or even this season. The Suns are a measly 3 of 8…and in the last loss the Mavs were without Harris, Howard, and Stackhouse…that’s like sitting Barbosa, Amare, and Raja… and the Mavs have also been completely impressive against the Spurs… after the Mavs took them out in 7, two years ago, the Spurs have never seemed to have an answer for the Mavericks game…
and if you look at the Mavs record this year… most of their losses have come against under .500 east teams… theyre 11-12 when facing east teams. Yet completely dominant in the West… if you ask me, the Mavs are reserving alot in the tank for playoff time. No more 67 win burnout with a 5 game series loss to Golden State…If anything the Kidd addition will crystalize into a mature squad that will not make settle for rookie mistakes. Harris and Diop, both good players for the Mavs, were obvious loose ends…and cutting them off was necessary for evolution.
The Dallas Mavericks will be in the finals this year… mark my words… trouble is…so will the Celtics (or Pistons)… everything after that is in their hands
Melvin Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 1:20 am
my goodness… 4.3 million dollars per month
Mario Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 2:08 am
Wait,
weren’t the suns of old the mavs of old. So small ball is back where it started this millenium, isn’t it…
Rashidi Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 3:16 am
“Kidd will definitely get them better shots, but the question is… Will he still allow them to get more possessions? Yes, he is probably the best rebounding pure point guard in the history of the NBA and a walking triple-double threat every time he hits the floor, but losing DeSagana Diop in the deal has effectively taken away a long defender and a rebounding asset the Mavericks will need against the Lakers, Suns and Spurs.”
Dude, not for nothing, but DeSagana Diop has absolutely SUCKED this year. Maybe you are thinking of 2006 when he was the anti-Boris Diaw. His shot blocking has decreased each of the last two years. At least he is averaging a CAREER HIGH THREE POINTS PER GAME.
“Erick Dampier will have to really step his game up to levels we have not seen and that scenario must have Avery Johnson worried.”
Dampier is a superior rebounder and unlike Diop can actually put the ball in the hoop more than once a game. His defense has been solid and this year there hasn’t been any question whose been better… which is why Dampier has been the starter.
“Brandon Bass has been a nice surprise, but they cannot count on an unproven player come playoff time – especially against Tim Duncan, Shaquille O’Neal and Pau Gasol.”
Dampier has done a good job defending those players in the past. You’re making a huge deal out of losing a below average center. And it’s not like Diop is anymore proven than Bass is. Diop is merely a live body, whatever Bass gives up defensively to those guys compared to Diop, he more than makes up for on the other end where he is at least a semi-factor. That’s more than you can say for DeFourOnFive Diop.
“The Mavericks have now become the Phoenix Suns pre-Shaq. They will have to up-tempo the game to crazy levels to stay out of half-court situations.
Uh, Jason Kidd is a half-court player, if anything it was Devin Harris who played more up-tempo.
“Case in point… Who will Dirk Nowitzki guard on the Suns?”
What’s comical is that you are panicking for the Mavs when they have been beating the Spurs for years now. The Mavs have succeeded against half-court teams like San Antonio and Houston in the past, and have failed against ultra uptempo teams like Phoenix and Golden State. You seem to think DeSagana Diop is the difference between victory and defeat, the difference between slow tempo and fast tempo. Maybe offensively, but come on, do you honestly think a team with Kidd, Terry, and Howard is going to be lacking in help defense? They might be the best defensive perimeter in the league!
Furthermore, you fail to realize that other half-court teams struggle to match up with Dirk. The Spurs could not guard Dirk which is why they lost in 2006.
“They use to hide him on Shawn Marion, but that will not work on Grant Hill or Boris Diaw because both can take him away from the basket and make him defend against dribble penetration.”
LOL It’s funny how you say “hide” like Marion wasn’t a 20 ppg scorer. So quick to jump off homer?
Who on the Suns is going to guard Dirk? Amare? Hah. Shaq? Maybe in 1998. Nope, it’s gonna be BORIS DIAW. And guess what? Dirk is a far better scorer (and player) than Diaw and will outproduce him. You wouldn’t take Dirk in that matchup? Use your noodle.
“Plus it effectively takes him off the defensive glass, thus making them vulnerable with only Dampier to rebound.”
Cuz as we all know, Dampier is a terrible defensive rebounder. So is Jason Kidd, that guy they picked up (and you forgot about while making your statement).
“Avery will have no choice but to put Dirk on Amare or Shaq and that scenario spells trouble for the Mavericks.”
As if either player on Dirk doesn’t spell trouble for the Suns…
“The same applies to the Lakers with Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol with Lamar Odom at small forward. Avery will have to guard Bynum with Dirk because there’s no way can he defend Odom.”
WTF? Why the hell would Dirk guard Bynum, when Erick Dampier is the starting center and plays especially against slow/strong centers. Seriously, were you high when you wrote this?
“but San Antonio will offset it with the great defense Bruce Bowen plays on Dirk.”
Which OBVIOUSLY worked in 2006. You know, when Dirk averaged 28 ppg (and 13 rpg thanks to all the offensive boards against the tiny Bowen)
“Dallas will now have to rely on fast pace and quick shots to have any chance against not only the three teams I mentioned”
The Phoenix Suns and clearly utterly destroyed whatever basketball mind you used to have. Watching them for so long has made you forget there are other styles of basketball besides running up the court for a three. Half-court teams win in the playoffs, and the Mavs have a dangerous half-court team.
“but the New Orleans Hornets and Utah Jazz as well.”
Who the Suns and Spurs will have to go through as well. The Suns are 1-3 against the Hornets.
“The Mavericks and the Warriors are now like mirror images”
…
I’m speechless.
and I don’t think either has the edge against the height and strength of the top teams in a seven-game series. But any given night, when they catch fire, they are going to look awfully good.
“Why would the Mavericks take the same approach?”
LOL you obviously have not watched Kidd since he left the Suns. The Nets have been one of the slower paced teams in the league over the past 5 years.
“I must admit that it will be fun watching it all develop because Jason Kidd is the real deal on both ends of the court.”
Kidd has been terrible offensively and has lost a step defensively, it’s very clear that you have not even seen the man play in the last 1000 days. Despite this, he gives the Mavs a lot of things that Harris did not. A true PG that can get scorers like Dirk, Howard, and Terry the ball in great position is more important than Harris’ driving ability/quickness. Not that quickness isn’t important, but the team already has Terry to cover that area, and the dropoff from Harris to Terry is not that great (particularly since neither can really keep up with a Chris Paul or Tony Parker anyway). You can bet your ass that the Mavs were not going to let skinny Harris get bullied again against bulky PGs like Baron or Deron.
Btw, before you start giving the western crown to the Spurs, Suns, or Lakers, all three of those teams have been hit with injuries to their stars. Parker hasn’t played in how long and the whole team is banged up this year. Shaq has yet to play a game in Phoenix and who knows how he’ll hold up when he finally does. Kobe played 3 minutes in the all-star game which is a sign they are hardcore protecting his finger, he is one accident away from not even suiting up in the playoffs. I can see why he’s waiting for surgery but if he intends on playing in the olympics too, he’s putting his career on the line to some extent. The team is fairly young, so why risk the tear getting worse?
Shaun Norden Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 4:40 am
“Avery will have to guard Bynum with Dirk because there’s no way can he defend Odom”
Odom’s dynamic offensive talent is too much for Dirk? Surely you jest.
And they are not really the suns of old. The suns had a supreme defender in Shawn Marion. The Mav’s don’t have anyone the quality of him at the defensive end. Amare is a force in the post. The Mav’s have who? I don’t see the comparison at all.
Novio Magus Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 5:10 am
Eddy,
You only spell doom for the Mavs but has the Suns wing defense benefitted from the Marion trade? And do you realy think Shaq can snatch all those rebounds they need to start the break?
The Mavs defensive problems remain the same. Diop couldnt guard Amare either. No Mav could. But no Sun could guard Dirk either (yes, including Marion and Diaw). The Mavs never had an inside scoring option but still made it ro the finals. The Mavs never were a high % assist team. no need because they are a superior 1 on 1 team. Get the ball to the disered spot and let the player go to work (Stack from free throw line, Dirk from elbow, Howard from wing)
A showdown between the Suns an Mavs still revolves around who has the least worse defense because Nash, Shaq and Amare are subpar defenders. The Mavs will miss Diops defense but gain a better defending and rebounding pg who can set up even Dampier for a few buckets.
So it comes down to whats worse: Dallas’ lack of inside defense or Phx lack of wing defense. I give Dallas a slight edge.
I leave why and the rest of the west for another post (I hate those long post so why should I start)
Krynn Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 7:37 am
Good article Eddie!! Really getting good inputs on your articles…. Really think your critic Rashidi does not play actual bball so he doesn’t know the value of Big men like Diop and how the Mavs would be hammered by Shaq and Amare of the Suns, Bynum, Gasol and Odom of the Lakers, Duncan of the Spurs, Boozer of the Jazz…… They would really be just like the Jazz-Warriors last playoffs when the shooters get cold you lose big…. Rashidi knows bball by playing NBA Live or NBA Fantasy…. Try playing for real and you will know how big men like Diop who don’t much pile up stats but are important in teams like the Mavs.. I am a Mavs fan and I root for the Mavs but I really think eddie is right in saying the Mavs are farther away from the title this year…
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 7:48 am
A private question for you Eddie. Are you worrying about not retiring as a Mavs? They could use you to make a trade and you can earn easy money like KVH:)
Anyway, when we focus on the article. There are good points in there. Mavs is going to have trouble while defending Amare - Shaq duo. But it he other end, who is going to defend Nowitzki? Amare or Shaq? Neither of them can leave painted area with Nowitzki, because both Amare and Shaq are bad defenders against penetration. If Amare leaves Shaq alone in painted area, Suns can’t keep Shaq out of foul trouble more than 5 minutes.
There will be too many mismatches. But it will be for both teams.
Koly Tenguela Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 7:53 am
Rashidi ,
i think you are putting too much value into statistics particularly concerning Diop. Yes, his play has been terrible this year and yes he’s a below average center but he has always done a good job defensively on Duncan. No matter, if you like Diop or not, the fact is that the mavs have now just one proven defensive big man and that’s just not enough in the west particularly when this big man is Dampier.
Also , i don’t think that Nowitzki was the reason the mavs beat the spurs in the conference finals. Yes, he was the mavs best player but the turnaround in that series was when Avery put Harris into the starting lineup and on parker. Harris defended Parker very well finally forcing Popovich to go small too in order to keep up with Harris- Terry-Howard. Another overlooked thing in that series was that Duncan was not 100% ; 4 of those7 games were very close and could have gone either way, i am not sure at all that with Duncan being 100% the outcome would have been the same.
Anyway, i agree with you that the mavs are still ahead of the suns ( as long that Shaq is a question mark, everything concerning the suns is pure conjecture)and in my opinion are on the same line than the Lakers and Spurs. It’s no surprise to see Eddie putting the Suns ahead of the mavs, you all know where his heart is.
jeff Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 7:56 am
i’m a mav fan, and a jason kidd fan too, bringing kidd back to dallas is a dream come true for me. one of the best point guard teaming up with the reigning MVP. yes! only dampier and an unproven brandon bass as post defenders, but i have faith in dallas’ core in kidd, dirk, howard, and terry. and include the reserves in stackhouse, eddie jones, i still beleive mavs will go to the finals. and it’s still the spurs to fear in the west, not the suns nor the lakers.
Felix G. Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 8:29 am
I also think the Mavs don’t have a shot when it comes to winning a champ with this line up. I wrote a comment on Mark Cuban’s blog two years ago, saying they wouldn’t be contenders until they had an offensive presence in the paint. I thought Dallas could make some moves to fix this so evident flaw in their game. Two years later, I think they are in a very similar position. And it’s not just aboput rebounding numbers, something J-Kidd can provide, it’s about forcing double teams and good shooting percentages.
Ryan Abt Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 8:58 am
Eddie,
I agree with you that this was not the deal that the Mavs needed to make even if not for the same reasons as you. I do think that this deal does make them better at the PG and will help Dirk and J-Ho some on offense. It unfortunately sacrifices their future. I hear everyone saying that they are going for it now, but why are they doing it. The West is better than ever so they sacrifice the future for a few years now? Why?
Here are the problems that they have and still have. Losing Diop didn’t kill the Mavs. What has killed them is the lack of a scoring center. Dampier can do well in defending on O-rebounds, but in offense it is killer not to have a low posts force. The best thing for the Mavs would have been to wait and sign a scoring center and move Bass to backup PF. Changing around PG isn’t helping.
After reading a few articles though, it does seem that most Mavs were having trouble with a long season of making shots for themselves, so this could be the answer to that.
Bole Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 9:10 am
I read half of this article and i think Eddie Johnson is wasting everyones time here by talking nonsense.
We’ll all have to see where he takes them, they’re definately solid all around. Maybe they need another big man and theres still tiem for that but the thing thats ridiculous about this article is that you say guarding Marion was used as a way to hide Nowitzki… Are you kidding???????????????????????????? Marion is much more difficult to guard then Grant Hill or Diaw are. He runs the court much much better and he got more shots from everywhere on the floor, which includes 3s too.
Nonsense like that is what makes your wannabe controversial article a waste of time.
Im not even a Dallas fan and i think its the Lakers turn this year to win it, if they stay healthy but way to waste my time with this pile.
Jared Culpepper Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 9:40 am
It looks like some people haven’t watched the Mavs much this season, but for the die-hards here in Dallas, we know that this deal was a STEAL:
-Avery has been disappointed in Devin Harris all season, he replaced him with JET early on, even though he didn’t want to, simply because Devin’s leadership just was not there.
-Diop is a good defender and descent rebound, but he is as good as he’s ever getting.
-Maurice Ager is a long way away from being a contributor in this league
-Trenton Hassel is no more valuable than Greg Buckner was last season (not very)
-Keith Van Horn… Keith Van Horn (maybe he’ll start putting up 20 a game like he did last time he was in NJ, and make us all look like idiots)
The biggest steal of the trade is Antoine Wright. The Mavericks are desperately searching for a real 2-guard. Wright is our man. Malik Allen is another big body who can get a couple of fouls here and there.
Besides, Eddie and the rest of the pundits out there, our problem in the last two playoffs was perimeter defense, not low-post presence. We’ll be fine.
Championship in Dallas. You heard it here.
Zei_Zao_LS Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 9:48 am
A couple things to clarify:
Boris Diaw and Grant Hill both guard Dirk quite well. An active and long defender with the help of a double team when Dirk puts the ball on the floor does wonders when it comes to stopping him, and Boris is actually strong enough to make sure he doesn’t just go where he wants to go. Those of you who caught the Suns vs. Mavs game the other night might have caught that.
The Mavs are really losing more perimeter defense out of this than interior defense. Malik Allen can stick his man, at least to a certain degree, the only thing they really lose on that front is shotblocking, as Diop is a very good interior defensive presence, even if he does have a tendency to foul people. Most of what was lost in Diop can (and probably will) be made up in good defensive team concepts. Devin Harris’ defense will be missed more sorely, however, because perimeter defenders who can stick their man at the PG spot are a serious rarity, especially one who can also play his part on the other end of the floor as well. Jason Kidd is a bit older and a good bit slower than his days as a great defender, all those years ago. He’s still a good team defender, knows where to be and generally won’t look bad on that end… but he’s a defensive downgrade from Harris. Of course, he’s an upgrade in nearly every respect as far as offense goes… Harris’ shot is still not quite where everyone would like it to be (or generally proclaims it to be), and Kidd has a tendency to shoot a bit better when the game clock is winding down.
Much like Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion very rarely dug out hard-to-grab, in the paint, highly contested rebounds. Shawn got the ones that bounced too far out or when people didn’t box out properly. He’s a good rebounder in that respect, but he’s never been great at actually denying other people rebounds, which is what the Suns needed help on. The Suns plenty of speedy players who hustle for the long rebounds, they needed someone to keep the seven footers off of the offensive glass. Shaq inflicts pain on people who go into his rebounding area… and I mean that in a literal sense, he gets away with a lot of flying elbows, shoves and general misconduct down there because people dish out so much to him. I personally expect the Suns rebounding to markedly improve because, well, nobody on the team knows how to box out except for Amare every once in a while and Diaw when he’s got his game face on… Shawn was distinctly lacking that rather valuable rebounding skill.
bole Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 10:58 am
Thanks for deleting my post cause i think Eddie doesnt know what hes talking about. Brutal way to start controversy by making up nonsense.
nikkiboy Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 11:46 am
Why it is always who to defend Amare, Shaq, Pau, Odom and Bynum? How about whose gonna guard Dirk? When Dallas was defeated by Miami, Wade ran over them, not Shaq. Odom what?!! He can’t even put a hand on Marion for the last couple of years for old times sake. Please don’t tell me Marion is a better individual player than Dirk.
Gasol, now he is the problem, for me he is the best post-up player in the world( my opinion), the Lakers problem relies on Bynum-Gasol tandem, Dirk kills Gasol, Gasol kills Dirk, Bynum “challenges” Dampier(since we never saw a Dallas-Lakers scenario it would be fun).
Phoenix, Shaq-Amare will die guarding Dirk, And Dirk would be flatten guarding any of the two, since Dallas got a coach named Avery Johnson, he might have some plans.
Why do we forget about San Antonio, in my opinion the only team that can beat San Antonio is Dallas and the Lakers. And if they can’t defeat the Spurs give the Spurs the trophy(the Conference silver, i believe Detroit and Boston have a very good chance), they are always underrated and unloved but, hell, they WILL win it all. So Dallas and LA please defeat them.
pagal Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 12:29 pm
eddie…you are such a pathetic homer its sad. you defended phoenix for their style of play for so long and now a week after getting shaq you are dogging that same style? f you and phoenix.
p.s: learn to shoot.
eddie Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 12:31 pm
Rashidi
I think you are smoking and thats why you have so much time on your hands.
but i will respond to a few of your rants!
“Dampier is a superior rebounder and unlike Diop can actually put the ball in the hoop more than once a game. His defense has been solid and this year there hasn’t been any question whose been better… which is why Dampier has been the starter.”
—i was not choosing one or the other sir——they needed both. sometimes i assume you might understand if i write Macro, but you need the Micro version. they need both because you never get consistency from either. Foul trouble for damp will make them very small. which means Dirk has to guard a big. this makes them very thin inside.
LOL It’s funny how you say “hide” like Marion wasn’t a 20 ppg scorer. So quick to jump off homer?
——you are so silly—again let me explain. Marion had zero plays ran for him which meant Dirk never had pressure to move his feet and really concentrate on d. Now he will have to guard a dribbler and penetrator in two man games and iso. which means helpppppppp. which means dunk!
WTF? Why the hell would Dirk guard Bynum, when Erick Dampier is the starting center and plays especially against slow/strong centers. Seriously, were you high when you wrote this?
——-it’s obvious why he would guard Bynum. he is the worst scorer of the three. you think he will guard Gasol and get in foul trouble? do you think he will guard Odom? he has no choice. just listen man —-you are a novice at this.
LOL you obviously have not watched Kidd since he left the Suns. The Nets have been one of the slower paced teams in the league over the past 5 years.
——not only have i watched him, but i play golf with him as well. The reason they play slow is because they only had one runner in Jefferson. Carter runs to the three point line. you need runners to run sir and now he has runners in Terry, Howard, and even Dirk.
you can’t break me down. you can’t see past the radio host you listen too or the stats you read.
They are small and Suns Like. Dampier will not play in crunch time because they need scorers on the floor to take pressure off Dirk and Howard in crunch time. unless you think Dampier will be the offensive surprise for them down the stretch of games. lol
eddie Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 12:53 pm
When i talk about Dirk having to defend people——what i mean is Avery would not like that scenario because he needs him on the floor scoring with energy. for instance you can make Steve Nash work on defense all night and the Suns can still score 100 plus because he will dominate in other areas without scoring.
Dirk will not dominate other than scoring so you have to protect him. i know he is a great scorer, but you can guard him with any size player because he will post up at the free throw line and shoot jumpers—so if he is off— guess what he becomes a liability. thats why Avery hides him on defense to harness all his energy to fight offensively.
sometimes i get ahead of myself and think that i am talking to all knowledgeable basketball guys—-but then there is Rashidi—lol
Rashidi Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 1:23 pm
“The Mav’s don’t have anyone the quality of him at the defensive end.”
Josh Howard.
Rashidi Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 1:30 pm
“Really think your critic Rashidi does not play actual bball so he doesn’t know the value of Big men like Diop and how the Mavs would be hammered by Shaq and Amare of the Suns, Bynum, Gasol and Odom of the Lakers, Duncan of the Spurs, Boozer of the Jazz…… ”
Sorry but you fail to impress me. Diop got smacked around by these guys just as much as anyone. Diop wasn’t even the best center on the Mavericks. Diop was a steal when they picked him up, but he is a limited player and shotblocking centers come at a premium (Jerome James, Jim McIlvaine, Calvin Booth, even Ben Wallace). Diop will likely command a similar deal as a free agent this summer so it was time to cut bait anyway as they’re already paying Dampier the big bucks.
GN2 Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
Who is Dirk going to guard. Having to ask that question begs another question. How did he win MVP? Until recently with Nash and Dirk, MVPs typically had to play some defense. Think Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Wes Unseld, Kareem, Dave Cowens, Bill Walton, Portland, Moses Malone, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Shaquille O’Neal, Tim Duncan, and Kevin Garnett.
It seems obvious that one way players have taken a priority now. If that was always the case the Gervin, David Thompson, Bernard King and others should have been league MVPs also.
As for who Dirk will guard, the obvious answer is no one. Like Nash, the person that he guards tends to have great offensive games. Think Parker and Baron against Nash and anyone against Dirk.
Rashidi Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 1:44 pm
“Gasol, now he is the problem, for me he is the best post-up player in the world( my opinion), the Lakers problem relies on Bynum-Gasol tandem, Dirk kills Gasol, Gasol kills Dirk, Bynum “challenges” Dampier(since we never saw a Dallas-Lakers scenario it would be fun).”
Well, here is the problem for LA, they are doing very well with Gasol at center and Bynum out. When Bynum comes back he will be clogging the middle which pushes Gasol out into Odom’s territory. Gasol can operate further from the basket fine, and is an excellent post passer and rebounder. Thing is they are getting that from Odom right now. Radmanovic is working because he spreads the floor better than Odom, and Odom is working wonders as that post passer.
I think when Bynum comes back, it might be off the bench. It would probably be for the best as the current frontcourt is really clicking and I think Odom/Gasol/Bynum is not a good fit. If you still want to feed Gasol inside, that basically makes Bynum a Kendrick Perkins type, providing only garbage buckets, rebounding, and defense. One of my critiques of the Gasol trade is it was going to impact Bynum’s offensive development because there is only room on the block for one of these guys.
Either that or you go gutsy and keep starting Radmanovic and make Odom the 6th man, which is a role he could thrive in. The west is so tight that the wrong starting alignment can easily mean a first round exit, or even missing the playoffs.
If the playoffs started today it’d be the Lakers vs Dallas. The Mavs are only a half game behind San Antonio so it could just as easily be Lakers vs Spurs.
Rashidi Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 1:48 pm
For what it’s worth, the Warriors are in 9th place and only 4 games behind the Lakers. There is going to be a team that wins 60% of it’s games and misses the playoffs this year. Since that equates to 49 wins, it looks like the magic number is 50 for all these west teams.
Andrew Ungvari Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 1:51 pm
How do you compare these Mavs to the Suns of old and ignore the similarities between the new Suns and another team from the past?
This Suns team is eerily reminiscent of the 2001 Sacramento Kings. Jump-shooting flashy point guard, defensive stopper at shooting guard, power forward with no low-post game who prefers to take jump shots, washed up aging center who can’t stay out of foul trouble, an underachieving coach, a shoot-first back up point guard. No depth at power forward or center.
And same result. No ring.
Rashidi Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 1:51 pm
“It seems obvious that one way players have taken a priority now. If that was always the case the Gervin, David Thompson, Bernard King and others should have been league MVPs also.”
Come on man, Bernard King couldn’t carry his team to the 50 win plateau, and he never got past the second round in his career. He is the epitome of a player you don’t give MVP because he is posting gaudy numbers on a bad team, and doesn’t make his teammates better.
Guys like Dirk and Nash have taken their teams to the Conference Finals multiple times and have also led their teams to 60+ wins in the regular season. No comparison.
Rashidi Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 2:31 pm
“I think you are smoking and thats why you have so much time on your hands.”
Eddie, all I have to say is you can admit to it now that your playing career is over. No more fear of a suspension or 4 figure fine.
“Foul trouble for damp will make them very small. which means Dirk has to guard a big. this makes them very thin inside.”
They may have lost a good defensive player, but there is also more than one way to look at the trade. It is an endorsement of Brandon Bass, a young player who has excelled in Dallas and has also logged center minutes this year. The team has also had Juwan Howard at the end of the bench waiting for an increased role. Juwan is a center now as he has lost a step and gained some weight (remember when he was a SF?). The team also picked up Malik Allen who is serviceable.
They have plenty of guys they can throw at post players to avoid getting abused. They may not have the shot blocking ability Diop had, but it’s not like Diop was getting those blocks against the Duncans and Shaqs of the world anyway. None of these guys will get pushed around in the post. The bigger “concern” is losing Diop’s shotblocking ability that he brought for a whopping 17 minutes per game.
LOL It’s funny how you say “hide” like Marion wasn’t a 20 ppg scorer. So quick to jump off homer?
“Marion had zero plays ran for him which meant Dirk never had pressure to move his feet and really concentrate on d.”
Because as we all know, Dirk has never had to defend anyone before, he has guarded Marion 82 games a year and thus has no idea what to do. Defense has never been a big issue with Dirk because he is next to impossible to guard. He is too quick for bigmen and too big for smallmen. The only players who have had success against him are athletic wings with freakish wingspans, like TMac, Jax, and Prince, because they are quick enough to stay with him and big enough to contest his shot. Since Dirk has been working on his post game the question is whether or not they’ll be able to stop him down low. And now that they have Jason Kidd, it becomes even tougher to stop Dirk because he’ll be getting the ball in great position.
You try to make Dirk sound like he is abyssmal on defense. Like other players in the west don’t have the same flaws. Anyone else LOL @ Amare in the last Suns game where he took himself out with quick fouls and the Suns were beaten by JACQUE VAUGHN?
“it’s obvious why he would guard Bynum. he is the worst scorer of the three.”
Odom is the worst scorer of the three, but in any event lets say he does guard Gasol. Which player is going to guard Dirk? It’s not going to be Odom because he’s the only one with a prayer of guarding JOSH HOWARD. What are they going to do when the Mavs go small with Kidd/Terry/Stackhouse/Howard/Dirk? They’re going to have to bench Bynum to be able to keep up.
USE YOUR NOODLE.
The Mavs have Jason Kidd now. It’s not just about stopping Dirk, they’re gonna have to stop him from creating for everyone else, gotta stop Josh Howard who has been dynamite this year.
Come on rookie, bring an argument with more than one dimension. I know your team only knows how to play one way but that doesn’t mean you have to either.
LOL you obviously have not watched Kidd since he left the Suns. The Nets have been one of the slower paced teams in the league over the past 5 years.
“you need runners to run sir and now he has runners in Terry, Howard, and even Dirk.”
But unlike the Suns, those guys can all play in the halfcourt when the game slows down come playoff time.
“you can’t break me down.”
Haha it’s never my intention to. It’s amusing watching you try to play defense for the first time in your career.
“for instance you can make Steve Nash work on defense all night and the Suns can still score 100 plus because he will dominate in other areas without scoring.”
LOL because Nash never works on defense! He plays the same offensively whether or not his man is lighting him up. The key to beating the Suns is shutting down everyone else and making Nash the primary scorer.
“thats why Avery hides him on defense to harness all his energy to fight offensively.”
LOL why do you think D’Antoni starts Bell next to Nash instead of Barbosa? No player is perfect. Hell, why do you think Ira Newble starts? Allowing your stars to focus more on offense than defense is hardly a rare practice. Iverson and Melo sacrifice defense for offense all the time. LeBron and Wade do it frequently as they have to carry their whole team on offense. Even Michael Jordan fits the bill here as Pippen and even Rodman were taking all the tough defensive assignments during the dynasties
GN2 Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 3:08 pm
@Rashidi -
Come on man, Bernard King couldn’t carry his team to the 50 win plateau, and he never got past the second round in his career. He is the epitome of a player you don’t give MVP because he is posting gaudy numbers on a bad team, and doesn’t make his teammates better.
Guys like Dirk and Nash have taken their teams to the Conference Finals multiple times and have also led their teams to 60+ wins in the regular season. No comparison.
___
Since when is 50 or 60 wins the determining factor for who wins the MVP. MVP = Most Valuable Player. PHX without Nash is still a playoff team. Dallas without Dirk is a fringe playoff team. Cleveland without LeBron is not in the Finals, not in the conference finals and definitely not in the playoffs. LA without Kobe last year would not have been sniffing playoffs.
Bernard King, when healthy was unstoppable. Ask someone who played. Forget 50 wins, think 50 points back-to-back carrying the Knicks to playoff wins. But let’s assume that you were not wrong about Bernard, what about Gervin and Thompson? Gervin lead SA to the conference finals only to lose to a LAL team that was loaded with stars.
That taking your winning team to the playoffs or a lot of wins is a phony as the MOP & Heismann in college ball. That and the “make your already good teammates better is a way to reward a guy who plays on a very good team. As a result, the good team reaps another reward. Approached another way, it is an excuse to ignore the best players in the world, Wade, LeBron and Kobe and create an excuse to give a reward to people that the press/voters like.
LeBron did better than Nash and Dirk by not only getting to the playoffs or conference finals but for getting to the getting to the Finals. What is the excuse for him not winning? By your criteria, he out did Nash and Dirk. He did it with another All-Star next to him (Josh Howard, Amare or Marion). Under your reasoning, Nash and Dirk should have never won. Duncan should win MVP every year because his team is always in the conference finals if not winning the championship.
By the way, when Nash won, the Pistons won 60+. Under your reasoning Chauncey or Rasheed should have won. Right? Making a good team better. I always wonder whether it is one guy making superstars better or if it is that having good teammates allows them to play better and more unselfishly?
Shaun Norden Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 3:28 pm
No way Josh Howard is on par defensively with Shawn Marion. Stats aren’t everything but take at look at them sometime. Marion guards 4 positions very well. Howard is a good defender but he ain’t no marion not even close.
Mo Daddy Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 4:14 pm
The Mavericks have choked every year. the regular season means nothing…its all about the postseason. Dirk is soft as butter. if you had any other superstar power forward ( Duncan, KG, Amare) in his place with that supporting cast around him, youre looking at multiple championships. Dirk plays no defense, how are the Mavs gonna win? against the Lakers, there is no way the mavs match up. Kobe is unstoppable, Howard can’t touch him (62 in 3 quarters…remember that?) Bynum is gonna eat Dampier, and Odom is a very long player who is fast enough to keep up Nowitzki. Gasol is on the same level as Dirk offensively and better defensively. the only trouble for LA is Kidd, but then Fisher isnt exactly a defensive liability.
Mo Daddy Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 4:14 pm
how on earth are the Mavs gonna get past the Suns or Spurs? they have no chance.
Andrei Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 5:18 pm
I am a big Mavs fan and now when the Suns traded for Shaq I LOVE the match up. I am not even talking about Kidd addition, anyone who says that the Mavs are not a better team with him is an idiot. Marion was Suns’s best defender on a very poor defensive team and he was the only one who could give Dirk or Howard real challenge on defensive end. Now when he is gone the closest (although he is not even close) guy to mirror defensive effort is Diaw. Which means that they will have to take Shaq out of the game and keep him on the bench most of the time because the only guy he can guard is Dampier and he doesn’t need to be guarded. Mavs will give the Suns a match up nightmare and Dirk and Howard will kill them. We already see guys like Paul and Ellis putting 40 on Nash, so Terry can do the same, even Kidd can contribute offensively although he doesn’t need to. Thank you Steve Kerr !!!
Theo Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 6:26 pm
Eddie you made some good points…but “The Mavericks have now become the Phoenix Suns pre-Shaq. They will have to up-tempo the game to crazy levels to stay out of half-court situations.”
If I remember clearly, the Mavs started this run and gun offense with Nelly/Nash so it is nothing new to the Mavs…
yacksipper Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 6:44 pm
Just want to say that hoopshype made a great decision to give you a blog. You always make sense. Just wish you answered questions everyday. Keep up the good work!
David Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 7:00 pm
Spurs just got Kurt Thomas for Elson and Barry (+ a draft pick). Watch out hack a Shaq!!
Eddie, isn’t this the guy you liked so mch last year?
Michael Kukich Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 7:40 pm
Spurs just acquired Kurt Thomas from Seattle for Brent Barry, Fransisco Elson and the Spurs #1 in 2009. West keeps getting bigger while the Mavs are shrinking!
nikkiboy Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 8:24 pm
People are making conclusion and none of the triggered deals had played so far in full power or at all.
Good Lord, San Antonio got a steal (if the trades really happen), PJ Carlesimo is feeding his former team! KYAHAHAHAH!
Still, San Antonio will only be defeated by Mavs or Lakers. Suns will have a very hard time against S.A. And I really hate to see Spurs in my television this June!
Brad Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 8:47 pm
Hey Eddie,
You are an idiot and such a homer. Last time I checked the Suns are a second round team, because that’s as far as they win. So why don’t you start talking about the Suns being better than the Mavs when they have actually done something that helps your argument. You talk about the Mavs not having any bigs besides Damp, take a look at your team. Maybe you should check that stat about how Phoenix stacks up agains the west elite. I couldn’t believe you actually said Grant Hill can guard Dirk…BTW it’s nice to see Grant has lasted 20 games this season. Can’t wait to see how the old geezers hold up in the playoffs. Oh and about Diop-there’s a reason he declined this year…he lost the minutes to Bass (interior scoring that you said we were missing). Oh and one last thing–Dallas and Sacramento were playing the up tempo game WAY before Phoenix did, so if anything Phoenix is playing Aldeman-Nelson Basketball. Peace.
nikkiboy Said,
February 20, 2008 @ 9:49 pm
Dallas and Phx are currently down against N.O. and L.A. respectively!
Let us wait.
cj1365 Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 12:50 am
Attention bloggers……Rashidi has no life..and the way Eddie looked on All-Star weekend….well…uhm enough said! Your argueing with a guy who HAD a sweet jumpshot in his younger days, but it’s pointless to argue strategies with him, he’s not a coach, never was a great defensive player, and he works for the suns, so what can we actually gain from him? Nothing.
George Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 2:28 am
Rashidi
do you understand basketball is a game of match-ups ?? thats what eddie is referring to. the mavs have gone farther into small ball territory while the top west teams have gotten bigger. Dirk can not guard a pau or odom, amare or shaq. they will take him out of the game with foul trouble by attacking him offensively. Dirk cant do the same to them he’s more finesse and jumpshots. he can play matador defense but that will only help the mavs opponents. diop is not an all-star no one ever said he was, but he was a big that dallas used to fight other bigs. Josh howard can not guard pau, amare, odom, bynum, or shaq. LA or phx has 2 legit bigs to go to.
on a different subject what a game tonight. Shaq’s gonna really help the suns. you can see the improvement already with him on the court. once he gets comfortable the suns vs lakers will really be a dog-fight. Damn Kobe 19 for 25 unbeleivable. but the suns out rebounded the lakers and thats what the suns needed. + his high % shots, great passing, defensive presence, damn this is gonna be a great year of playoff basketball.
Andrew Ungvari yes they do remind me of the kings. I was a kings fan then, it all fell apart with webbers knee. the kings vs lakers series were better than the championship series.
George Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 2:31 am
nikki
i honestly think the suns will beat the spurs this time around for sure. kurt thomas is not that scary of a pick-up. the lakers are the team the suns will have to worry about.
Hammond Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 2:36 am
It’s hilarious to hear Eddie talk about the “Pre-Shaq Suns” as if they had an obvious weakness. That’s what lots of us have been saying all along and Eddie’s been arguing against. If Dallas is now like the pre-Shaq Suns and that’s a BAD thing, what the heck was Eddie debating about in the past with all of the Spurs’ fans??
Jason Kidd got eaten alive by Chris Paul tonight. Welcome to the West.
A month ago, Eddie said Pau Gasol “sucked.” I wonder if he still thinks that.
Shaq: 15 pts & 9 rebs in a very high scoring game. Gasol: 29 pts.
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 4:45 am
George
How will Suns will beat Spurs this time? By addition of Shaq?
Come on dude we saw Shaq tonight. Shaq + Amare duo allowed 56 points from the paint against Lakers. They won’t be a complementary part.
Spurs made a very smart move. They will use same strategy with last year’s Suns. Leave Kurt to match up with Shaq and keep Duncan fresh. Suns should worry about Spurs right now
Julia Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 8:26 am
I want to Mavericks to win it all since the Nets won’t and if they do I’d be so happy, but I don’t think Jason Kidd can do much help against the Suns, who I also like and Lakers.
George Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 8:31 am
kurt thomas cant guard shaq. the suns adding shaq makes the suns lethal especially to the spurs. honestly kurt thomas on the spurs helps the suns. have you ever seen kt attack the hoop ??? hes a jump shooter. they gave up brent barry probably their best 3point shooter to get him. what do you mean against the lakers ?? like thier front court is garbage ?? the lakers front court is one the best in the league. remind yourself that this was shaqs 1st game as a suns and 1st game in over a month. im sorry but the spurs are not the elite team in the wast i dont care if they are last years champs.
Michael Kukich Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 9:45 am
I’m no longer concerned about the Suns beating the Spurs, its the Lakers who have moved to the front of the class. Gasol looks like a beast playing in the triangle offense and alongside Bryant and Odom. Even without Bynum, Radmonovic gives them another 6′-10″ player with skills to keep the floor spread. They looked awesome against Phoenix last night! Jackson even has confidence in his bench, going 10 deep.
David Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 10:20 am
Brent Barry, although likeable, was expendable, especially since he’s been hurt most of the year. How can everyone say the Spurs are “done” when they have not played with their full roster since December. Thomas was a great pick up — 6 fouls with a reliable jump shot. (Another fact that is lost is that the Spurs are now “under” the cap — more with less).
Kobe looks scary — in reality that is the team to beat. Just don’t count out the Spurs this soon.
Chad Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 12:19 pm
Im glad I listened to your shaq story. The suns got much better
Zac Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 2:03 pm
nice shooting at the all star game, eddie.
Mitch Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 3:41 pm
I don’t know about these Suns and nash.
I always have a feeling that Steve Nash will actually never take the Suns to the NBA final because of his non-existent defense and inablity to be a clutch shooter or passer in the final moments of the game. I have watched many Sun’s games. Let me be honest, Steve Nash rarely was able to take the team on his shoulder when the game is on the line especially in the last few minutes. Sorry if I offend those devoted Nash fans, but I just don’t think he is an all-round player. He is a pretty good passer and can shoot jumpshots. But he can’t go strong to the basket and his brain just always makes bad decisions, as I said, in the final moments of the game like tonight. By the way, Shap is a great addition to the Suns. But he can’t take care of the defense for the entire team. They should either get a good back-up for Nash or simply trade him for a player like Chris Paul who can actually defend.
Melissa Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 4:00 pm
This was a trade that needed to be done. The Mavs showed no inside production when the Warriors upset them and Kidd’s rebounding alone more than makes up for it. This trade was especially better than the originally proposed trade because Eddie Jones’s inability to shoot the ball proves Stackhouse to be an asset worth keeping. Where this trade left them short was that they should have traded for Kidd a year or two ago, they failed to include the landing of a legit big man in the deal, and they left themselves with little financial flexibility to trade for a legit big man. This trade would have drawn more respect had they been able to include a third team with a decent big man.
kent25 Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 5:29 pm
you kill me. you’re the biggest phoenix homer i’ve ever seen/heard. i catch your phoenix brodcasts and read this crap and i am amazed your producers allow you to be such a blatant homer for the team you cover.
the better question is…..who guards dirk?
and dallas is now golden state? are you high??? they’re not even close!!
and just b/c they get shaq all of a sudden phoenix is this defensive stopping, half court team? did you catch the game last night vs the lakers?
your article on the suns being the bar-none championship winner last year was idiotic enough. im not sure why people give you the forum to write your phoenix-loving agenda
anthony Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 6:05 pm
oh man!!!
the west is gonna be exciting:
We got the reigning champ that added another SOLID hustle player who knows how to play d. These guys are smart and efficient
We got the perennial maid of honor that just added a BIG low post presence. They will take one last swing at it but can the Big Diesel stay healthy and get them over the hump???
We got a young team from New Orleans that somehow is being looked past even though they are leading the West. When will they be taken seriously? Some teams may figure it out to late.
We got a powerful team from Utah that shows flashes of brilliance. Are they legit?
We got the Mavericks who just added one of the top point guards in the league, will they gel in time for when games really count?
Lastly, we got the surprise of the season in the Lakers who are stalked with talent! Seems the only thing that can hold them back are themselves (injuries).
The playoffs are gonna be exciting!
Rashidi Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 6:47 pm
“Since when is 50 or 60 wins the determining factor for who wins the MVP.”
::Cracks knuckles::
2007: Dirk Nowitzki (67 wins, 1st in Conf, 1st in NBA)
2006: Steve Nash (53 wins, 3rd in Conf, 4th in NBA)
2005: Steve Nash (62 wins, 1st in Conf, 1st in NBA)
2004: Kevin Garnett (58 wins, 1st in Conf, 2nd in NBA)
2003: Tim Duncan (60 wins, T-1st in Conf, T-1st in NBA)
2002: Tim Duncan (58 wins, T-2nd in Conf, T-2nd in NBA)
2001: Allen Iverson (56 wins, 1st in Conf, T-2nd in NBA)
2000: Shaquille O’Neal (67 wins, 1st in Conf, 1st in NBA)
1999: Karl Malone (37 wins, T-1st in Conf, T-1st in NBA)
1998: Michael Jordan (62 wins, 1st in Conf, T-1st in NBA)
1997: Karl Malone (64 wins, 1st in Conf, 2nd in NBA)
1996: Michael Jordan (72 wins, 1st in Conf, 1st in NBA)
1995: David Robinson (62 wins, 1st in Conf, 1st in NBA)
1994: Hakeem Olajuwon (58 wins, 2nd in Conf, 2nd in NBA)
1993: Charles Barkley (62 wins, 1st in Conf, 1st in NBA)
Damn, I just owned you HARD.
Nash was rewarded in 2006 for getting the Suns to 4th best in the league without Amare. As any logical person can see, THIS WAS AN EXCEPTION NOT THE RULE. So take your flaky Billups analogy and shove it, like any media members actually thought 64 wins in an especially weak east meant something.
MVP might mean “most valuable player” but the fact is it’s voted for by members of the media who usually vote for the best player on the best team.
“Cleveland without LeBron is not in the Finals, not in the conference finals and definitely not in the playoffs. LA without Kobe last year would not have been sniffing playoffs.”
And yet neither of these players have been MVP. You talk like Kobe getting the Lakers to the 7th seed is some kind of amazing feat. It wasn’t. Take him away and yeah, no duh the Lakers will miss the playoffs, they barely made it in the first place. Let’s say Nash and Kobe are worth 15 wins to their team. Of course the Suns are still a playoff team, they become as bad as the Lakers were with Kobe in that case. Rewarding players for leading teams to mediocrity isn’t impressive no matter how you slice it. Why don’t we just give T-Mac MVP over Tim Duncan then for leading the Magic to the playoffs in 2003?
“Bernard King, when healthy was unstoppable. Ask someone who played.”
I’ve seen Bernard King, and the key word you mention is HEALTHY since King rarely was. ‘Unstoppable’ don’t mean a thing, how many “unstoppable” players have had any success? Iverson, McGrady, and Kobe all led the league in scoring and how much success did they have by their lonesome? It takes a team mentality to win, not a hog.
“it is an excuse to ignore the best players in the world, Wade, LeBron and Kobe and create an excuse to give a reward to people that the press/voters like.”
LOL first of all, D-Wade? The true half-man, half-season? Kobe has a shot this year but I pity anyone who voted for him when he was averaging 27 shots per game (more than Jordan ever took) en route to a barely .500 record. LeBron is also a legit candidate this year, as he is actually playing a semblence of defense.
“LeBron did better than Nash and Dirk by not only getting to the playoffs or conference finals but for getting to the getting to the Finals.”
Uh, if he played in the west he would have missed the playoffs entirely. Dispatching Washington without Arenas or Butler, and the New Jersey Nets is not exactly some huge feat. The West’s 8th seed Warriors were better than the Nets. Hell, they might have been better than Cleveland too. Phoenix had to go through the Spurs in the 2nd round, not some .500 team (and at least won two games against the Spurs). Last year’s Cavs are a fluke. They were not going to get back to the Finals with the same lineup even with LeBron’s improved play.
Rashidi Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 6:54 pm
“Marion guards 4 positions very well.”
Marion guards one position very well - his own.
He can’t hang with PGs (and rarely should anyway, because who is Nash going to guard? Gulppppp.
He can hang with some SGs but he ain’t Bruce Bowen or Ron Artest, or even Trenton Hassell, his perimeter D is not that good.
He is good against finesse PFs but he is badly overmatched by guys like Duncan, Gasol, and Brand.
Marion might be slightly more versatile, but there is not much dropoff between Josh and Marion against SG/SFs.
GN2 Said,
February 21, 2008 @ 9:32 pm
If the MVPs you mentioned, specifically Nash and Dirk, were the on the only teams that won 50-60+ games you might make sense. But they were not. Their teams did not even make it to the Finals. Since your standard is so team performance based, the fact that Nash has never led his team to the finals should prohibit him, under your reasoning, from being MVP once let alone twice.
06-07
Trouble is that there were 7 teams with 50+ wins in 2006-7. Including Duncan’s team and LeBron’s team. Those two made it to the Finals which under your original “logic” would have made them the MVP candidates.
05-06
Six teams won 50+. Detroit and SA had the best records. Detroit won 64 and SA won 63. Nash’s squad won 54. Wade’s squad won it all over Dallas. Somehow Nash won. Wade played 75 games that year and averaged over 38 minutes a game.
04-05
Eight teams won over 50 including SA and Detroit who were in the Finals. Nash again, imagine that?
Under consistency (your standard) I see a lot of Detroit and SA in the Finals. I also see them winning conference finals too. Dallas has only won one and PHX has not won the conference finals (in recent history). That is not much consistency is it?
Are you thinking for yourself or are you letting the media and stats guide you? The fact that the media is picking the best player on a really good team should raise a question about whether that person is the best player. We simply cannot agree on your position that a very good player who may not be as important to his team as another guy is to a lesser team is MVP.
You commented on the fact that LeBron, Wade and Kobe have not won the MVP as if that means that they were not really the most valuable player. Who is more valuable, the guy who helps his team win a few games more than they would have without him or the guy who helps his team win almost every game that they play? I guess you subscribe to the idea that a coach is great coach when he has stars and wins but sucks or is average if his team doesnt have talent but win slightly less frequently than starstudded teams.
How can you talk about LeBron having a chance this year because he is playing some “semblance” of D? There is no semblance of D from Nash or Dirk and they won. If playing no D is good for them then it should be good from him or Kobe as well. If you want to be credible you have to be consistent or at least note a true distinction.
Are you also a fortune teller? You claim that if LeBron played in the West they would not have made the playoffs. You are a poor fortune teller based on that comment. Their record last year of 50-32 would have made them 6th in the West. Of more significance is that they were 19-11 against the West last year. Playing the majority of their games against the West with that type of success would have certainly given them a better record then their 31-21 record against the East.
As for owning someone, it is obvious that you don’t own yourself or your own thoughts so you can’t own anyone else.
Brandon Said,
February 22, 2008 @ 12:05 am
wow….this thing has gotten heated since i made my first post. Well…since it’s been a couple days…lets go over some things that have happened.
One…Kidd looked…ok…in his Mavs debut against the Hornets. To me, he looked like he was waiting for everybody else to catch up. Yes, he made six turnovers…thats going to happen when Chris Paul gets 9 steals. They ran into the best team in the west on a night where they didn’t have anything ironed out as a team. They probably won’t look very good tomorrow against Memphis or Sunday against Minnesota…but next week, they’ll beat the bulls and the spurs…write it down.
Shaq…i was at the Stars/Flames game here in Dallas and turned on the broadcast with about 7 minutes to go in the first quarter. Who did I see…Shaq, on the bench, gasping for air, sweating his face off. Got in for 5 minutes of run and was blown up. I just really fail to see how his hips/lungs/knees are going to hold up to the pace Phoenix wants to run. Granted…he looked pretty good when he touched the ball, but that experiment will be a long ongoing one. I really hope Shaq does well though…i like him, he’s good for the sport…so we’ll see.
To the Mavs “need for an interior scoring threat”. Seriously…has anyone watched the Mavs in the last 20 years? They have never played an offensive style that lends itself to post scoring options. Even Shawn Bradley…arguably the most offensively gifted center the mavs have had in the last while…took most of his shots from 10 feet out on the baseline. And was money from there I might add. Please…Kidd, Jackson and Mashburn never had a center to play with…Finley and Nash and Nowitzki never used a center…Dirk, Jet and Devin never used a center and they went to the Finals…and the team as it is tooled now will never look to the post to give them their first scoring option. It is just not in the makeup for the Mavericks. Even if Shaq came on board to the Mavs…the ball is going to Dirk and Josh. That is the pecking order. Its simple. So don’t blame the Mavs for not having a scoring center…they wouldn’t use one if they had it. They seem to have had some success in recent years without one. Same as Phoenix…
tdawg Said,
February 22, 2008 @ 12:50 am
I agree that the Mavs probably won’t get it done with J Kidd..
a little off topic but, Eddie, how about those Lakers owning your Suns on the 2nd night of a back to back IN phoenix WITHOUT Bynum? you gonna change your stance now? 3-1 season series to the Lakers, actually should be 4-0 since we had sorry kwame brown in that one loss and neither bynum nor gasol…i’d love to see the suns in the playoffs…what do you think the suns chances are at beating the lakers in a 7 game series? i’d say not so good
eddie Said,
February 22, 2008 @ 1:25 am
tdawg
what stance should i change? The playoffs start in two months.
Michael Bennett Said,
February 22, 2008 @ 1:26 am
Eddie — Let’s hear what you have to say about Big Ben and LeBron… I think we’ll differ on this, but have at it.
Tim Duncan's pet Dolphin, Flipper Duncan Said,
February 22, 2008 @ 3:32 am
There are some pretty funny things in this article, and I’ll list them in the order they appear.
1.The Dallas Mavericks have now joined the party that the Lakers and Suns started a few weeks ago.
The Mavs have been looking for a point guard with basketball wisdom for a long time, so don’t think the Mavs did anything as a reaction to what LA and Phoenix did.
2.I don’t think it will put them in the rarified air of Phoenix, Los Angeles and San Antonio and for one specific reason only… They still have no interior offensive threat that will get them consistent inside points and force teams to double team…
Sorry Eddie, but the Mavericks have been head and shoulders above LA, PH, and SA for years…without inside scoring presence. Starting the season with tons of injured players, new players, suspended players, and Avery asking Dirk to reduce his game to KG status (I guess to prove why KG never won anything until he was put on a team this 3 franchise players), is the reason why the Mavericks have barely trailed the Suns and Hornets so far this season. Imagine that, a busted Mavericks team is 95% as good as a fully operational Suns team and a surging New Orleans team.
3.The Mavericks have now become the Phoenix Suns pre-Shaq.
Pre-Shaq, the Suns were the Mavericks when they had Steve Nash.
4.Case in point… Who will Dirk Nowitzki guard on the Suns? They use to hide him on Shawn Marion, but that will not work on Grant Hill or Boris Diaw because both can take him away from the basket and make him defend against dribble penetration.
You talk like Dirk only guards big players and never has to come out on the floor. You must be getting him confused with Duncan or Shaq or some other big man who can’t guard anyone beyond 10 feet from the rim.
The question is, who’s going to guard Dirk?
5.Plus it effectively takes him off the defensive glass, thus making them vulnerable with only Dampier to rebound.
First of all, Dirk doesn’t get defensive rebounds because he plays near the defensive glass, he goes and gets those rebounds. He has fewer offensive rebounds because his true basketball skill doesn’t require him to go to the basket in order to score; therefore, decreasing his chances of getting a bunch of tip offensive rebounds like Duncan or Garnett.
Second, when Dallas plays Phoenix there are plenty of rebounds for Phoenix opponents to grab, especially offensive rebounds.
6.The same applies to the Lakers with Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol with Lamar Odom at small forward. Avery will have to guard Bynum with Dirk because there’s no way can he defend Odom.
Since Phoenix only plays at one speed you seem to have not noticed that really good teams adjust their playing style to fit their opponent. The more big guys there are on the floor, the faster the game will go. Only an idiot team would play a half-court game with a team that has big players like LA. Teams like Phoenix, who can’t defend, also get run at by really good teams. Up until this year, Dallas has done just that, that’s why they’ve never had any problems playing the Suns. Unless the Mavs have key players who are injured, Phoenix only wins when Dallas lets them.
7. The Spurs don’t create that much of a problem with only Duncan in the interior…
It’s a good thing they don’t have Shaq in the middle, or they would create an even smaller problem.
8. …but San Antonio will offset it with the great defense Bruce Bowen plays on Dirk.
Since when has Bruce Bowen played good defense on Dirk? Bowen doesn’t even guard Dirk anymore.
9.If the Suns have admitted that form of ball is pretty but not conducive to a championship. Why would the Mavericks take the same approach?
Like I said earlier, the Suns were the Mavs before Steve Nash left. They realized the Suns way of playing wasn’t going to win anything about 5 seasons ago.
Instead of tricking yourself into thinking that the Mavs are trying to play the unsuccessful strategy that Phoenix has been utilizing, you should ask yourself why Phoenix is trying to play like Dallas when no one on the team can defend or rebound. If Phoenix slows down, not only will they not be able to defend or rebound, their fast-break points go out the window, too. What, is Shaq going to catch outlet passes like Marion? Hhhmmm, maybe he will since he’ll still be on the opposite end of the floor. I guess the Shaq trade was a good move after all. Let him stand under the basket to catch outlet passes and then he can get his dunk on. Why not? It’s not like he’s needed for defense and rebounding because Phoenix hasn’t had either of those two things since Barkley was on the team.
Hey Eddie, when are ya’ll going to sign Ben Gay? He’d be a good back-up for Shaq, Nash, and Hill, and the best thing is you can sign him for $14.99 + tax.
Novio Magus Said,
February 22, 2008 @ 8:03 am
Yes Eddie,
What do you think of the Clevelandtrade. Is Ferry trying to save his *ss by doing something or is there a plan behind this? Clearly this trade must be about everybody but Wallace. The bulls simply choose to dump him on the first taker. My take is that Ferry was way to passive. If Kidd, O’Neal and Gasol were up for grabs and NY dying to make a trade. Of course they made a little upgrade with Delonte running the point and Wally hoisting up 3s. Smith is a veteran who’ll make people forget about Gooden (a decent player but sometimes his head is still with Chicago while the team plays Portland so to speak). Wallace’s contract is the price they have to pay.
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
February 22, 2008 @ 9:31 am
George.
Kurt Thomas is a good defender and can stand behind Shaq. He doesn’t attack to the rim, but it’s not important for Spurs. Parker, Manu and Duncan will atatck to the rim enough to put Shaq into foul trouble.
Kurt Thomas will provide some room to Duncan inside the paint by his jump shoot weopon. All of Spurs front-court players have some shooting range now and this will cause Suns front-court players to go outside.
Against Bynum-less Lakers, they let 56 points from the paint. There is no way to win a game in play-offs for a team who allows so many score to a team whoose biggest man is absent.
kent25 Said,
February 22, 2008 @ 10:23 am
so last year in this same blog, as phoenix was ripping through the league with wins, you claimed dallas and san antonio were no match for their small ball and lineup mismatches. we saw how that worked out for phoenix.
and now this year you’re touting phoenix as some slow it down, made for the playoffs juggernaut because of the acquisition of a 35 year old, 20 min a night, over the hill Shaq? you’re a joke. im telling you, i listen to you from far away on the directv nba package and i really can’t believe they allow you to spout this intense homer-based agenda you have.
so small ball works last year, but doesn’t work this year? biggest homer i’ve eve heard of.
Jim Houghton Said,
February 22, 2008 @ 12:37 pm
Anyone who saw Dallas lose to New Orleans the other night, with Chris Paul having his way with Jason Kidd et. al., has to wonder whether Kidd can bring them a championship, competing against the likes of Paul, Tony Parker, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, and Baron Davis. Come to think of it, Kidd couldn’t even achieve a winning record in the pitiful Eastern Conference, playing with Vince Carter & Richard Jefferson.
Rashidi Said,
February 22, 2008 @ 1:20 pm
“If the MVPs you mentioned, specifically Nash and Dirk, were the on the only teams that won 50-60+ games you might make sense. But they were not. Their teams did not even make it to the Finals.”
MVP is not given based on playoff performance, it is given based on regular season performance.
David Robinson got MVP over Hakeem and lost to him in the playoffs.
Karl Malone and Charles Barkley got MVP over Jordan and lost to him in the Finals.
As i CLEARLY illustrated, MVP has been given to the best player on a top two NBA team dating back THE LAST FIFTEEN YEARS. I could have gone even further back if I wanted, all the way to Dave Cowens.
“Since your standard is so team performance based, the fact that Nash has never led his team to the finals should prohibit him, under your reasoning, from being MVP once let alone twice.”
Kid, you’re over your head. I already told you what my logic was, and you’re still trying to figure it out. Just re-read my post a couple times and maybe it will start to sink in.
Andrew Said,
February 22, 2008 @ 3:31 pm
Eddie, there are so many flaws in your argument that it is unbelievable. First of all, let me say as a Mavs fan, that I don’t like the Kidd trade. I agree with you that losing Diop is what really hurts in this trade. However, you are wrong on so many points.
Dallas will not have to turn into a run and gun team like Phoenix used, as you said. Anyways, if they did, last year YOU were talking about how good Phoenix was and how Dallas couldn’t play with them. Over the past year, you have changed your entire approach and now run and gunning is bad? Seriously, coming from you, you would think that it would be a complement to the Mavs. But you are wrong because the Nash/Nellie days of the Mavs was the old Suns.
Now lets look at your Dallas/Phoenix analysis. Dirk will have to guard Amare, but Amare will have to guard Dirk. The Suns traded away their only guy capable of doing a decent job on Dirk. Dirk has already put up about 30/12 on the Suns over the past three yerars (playoffs included). I think Dirk is more capable of guarding Amare, than Amare is Dirk.
Regarding Dallas/Lakers. Hello, Dirk will obviously guard Gasol. Anyways, you do realize that before the trade Dirk and Odom matched up with each other and Dirk did fine. But it doesn’t matter because it will be Dirk and Gasol. How can you overlook that? Once again, look back to the 2006 playoffs, DIrk dominated Gasol. I’ll take Dirk again against the Lakers.
Regarding Dallas/SA, that is just laughable. Bowen’s great defense on Dirk offsets his being an offensive liability? That is just a joke. Dirk creates more matchup problems for the Spurs then anybody else in the league. He forces them to go small. Dirk has also figured out Bowen and has had great success against him over the past two years, including 37/15 in game 7 in 2006. So much for that argument.
In your article, you keep trying to point out that Dallas will have to hide Dirk defensively and you twist everything. The only team Dallas should be concerned about defensively with Dirk is Phoenix. However, Phoenix should be more concerned about guarding Dirk. You continuously fail to answer the question who will guard Dirk? He is the reigning MVP. He is arguably the toughest matchup in the league. How can you overlook that one question? Also, Dirk draws plenty of double teams opnening up things for Josh and JET, and Dirk can get his shot whenever he wants.
I don’t like this trade and I’m not sure the Mavs would be my favorite to win the title, but you argument is just dumb and reflects poor basketball knowledge. You are so biased towards Phoenix it isn’t even funny.
Rashidi Said,
February 22, 2008 @ 8:15 pm
Jamaal Magloire placed on waivers. My guess is Dallas signs him to be the designated OMG ITS SHAQ FOUL FOUL guy.
GN2 Said,
February 22, 2008 @ 10:25 pm
@ Rashidi
If someone has to read your post several times to figure what you said then you didn’t make your point clearly or cogently.
You stated “MVP is not given based on playoff performance, it is given based on regular season performance.”
I never said that it was. You are the person who wrote “Guys like Dirk and Nash have taken their teams to the Conference Finals multiple times and have also led their teams to 60+ wins in the regular season. No comparison.” You suggested that there was some relationship between playoff success and winning MVP.
You stated “As i CLEARLY illustrated, MVP has been given to the best player on a top two NBA team dating back THE LAST FIFTEEN YEARS. I could have gone even further back if I wanted, all the way to Dave Cowens.”
Last year the two best teams were evidently Cleveland and SA. The best player each of those teams failed to win. PHX while entertaining has not been the best team or even been to the Finals yet but Nash has won MVP twice. Det has had the best record, been to the Finals and even won the Finals and has not had the MVP. Your reasoning fails again.
Too bad your logic is not consistent or logical.
Jim Said,
February 23, 2008 @ 11:50 pm
Brandon, Brandon, Brandon, when using statistics like rebounding please remember basketball is a team sport. The affect of a player is determine by more then individual statistics. With Shaq in the line up the suns have outrebounded their opponents by 14. In the past they have been outrebounded by almost 5 a game. That is a +19 change. They have a +14 offensive rebound change in the past two games in comparison to their overall statistics. On the other hand the Mavericks have maintain the statsis quo in regards to rebounds. Shaq will have an impact on the sun’s rebounding whether he pulls them down or someone else does. Yes, Kidd will have an impact on the Mavs but statistics show, at least so far, it is not in the rebounding area. Reccomendation: next time spend a little more time contemplating your argument before throwing out unsupportive data. Comparing individual statistics without looking at the big picture can skew your view of reality which it seemingly has.
Nashty Said,
February 24, 2008 @ 6:15 pm
Hey Eddie. How do you rate Shaqs perfomance so far? pretty shit I say. Hes clogging things up for nash and runing the system. Look at Nashs assists of late. I think you will have to eat your words after that ridiculous last article. I know its early but to get beaten by detroit like that is deplorable. I dont see why you would pay someone 20 million a year to simply block shots & rebound.
ps. good shooting at all star break. ha ha ha
Brandon Said,
February 25, 2008 @ 1:59 am
well…here we are…kidd and shaq have both played a few games for their respective teams. So lets look at how those games went and the lines for the new guys.
shaq:
game 1: vs LAL
minutes: 28+
points: 15
rebounds 9
+/- -1
win/loss LOSS
game 2: vs BOS
minutes: 26 +
points: 4
rebounds: 14
+/- +7
win/loss WIN
game 3: vs DET
minutes: 33+
points: 7
rebounds: 11
+/- -20!
win/loss LOSS
Jason Kidd
Game 1: vs NOH
Minutes: 36+
points: 8
rebounds: 6
assists: 5
+/- -14
win/loss LOSS
game 2: vs MEM
Minutes: 31+
points: 2
rebounds: 5
assists: 15
+/- +17
win/loss WIN
game 3: vs MIN
Minutes: 35+
points: 12
rebounds: 7
assists: 17
+/- +13
win/loss WIN
3 game totals:
SHAQ
points: 26
rebounds: 34
+/- -14!
win/loss 1W - 2L
KIDD
points: 22
rebounds: 18
assists: 37!
+/- +16
win/loss 2W - 1L
So…I’d say pretty even right now with the major difference being the +/- situation and the win/loss record. Especially in the west…the win loss column will be increasingly important. Granted, Phoenix played much tougher teams than did Dallas…but the playoffs wont be full of easy teams so Phoenix will have to find a way to beat the Lakers at least in the west. We’ll see how Dallas does this week against Chicago and San Antonio. Then we can revisit the “who helps their team more…Shaq or Kidd” conversation.
have a good week everyone.
Jeff Said,
February 25, 2008 @ 3:08 am
the irony of this is pretty funny considering eddie johnson has always been a ridiculous suns homer and has written all kinds of things on here proclaiming the suns to be a great team capable of winning championships during the ‘run and gun’ era. suddenly they get a washed up shaq who for some reason people haven’t noticed hasn’t been good in 2 years and its all about having big men and half court offense.
Jeff Said,
February 25, 2008 @ 3:22 am
lol, reading some more eddie johnson stuff and i find this little tid bit on what he thinks the mavs need to do after the first round playoff loss last year. caught with your foot in your mouth much?:
So how do you fix the Mavericks?
Ask Mark Cuban again if he misses Steve Nash. A pass-first point guard who can score is what the Mavericks need. They waste too much time and energy getting off shots. A guard that can get Nowitzki and Howard wide open shots without having to bang and dribble would help. Terry and Devin Harris are off guards and always will be.
http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/index.php/category/dirk-nowitzki/
Jim Houghton Said,
February 25, 2008 @ 10:50 am
Watching the Suns being thrashed by Detroit yesterday was enough to make a grown man cry. Whatever happened to the run & gun Suns? Trying to play a halfcourt game with Shaq clogging the lane is not going to get it done. Marion for Shaq will surely go down as one of the most one-sided trades in NBA history.
Frank Blackwell Said,
February 26, 2008 @ 2:34 pm
Nostalgia doesn’t win games. Shaq was pretty good 5 years ago, but the soon to be 36 year old Shaq is no longer an unstoppable force. The only unstoppable force left in him is apparently his appetite. He is what, 50 pounds heavier than someone his height should be in order to be in basketball condition? He has a lot of muscles, but his body is better suited for professional wrestling than basketball. The Shaq trade has ruined the Phoenix franchise and is worse than the Caron Butler for Kwame Brown trade. Imagine paying $20 million a year for the next two years to get 8 points and 8 rebounds a game. At least Kwame Brown only made 9 million a year for the same statistics.
Phoenix is not going to make the playoffs with the starting lineup they used against Detroit.
Jason Kidd has been a great player with the emphasis on has been. In the Western Conference his current level of play is behind Deron Williams, Chris Paul, and Baron Davis so one has to really wonder how much better Dallas is with him. Point guards don’t tend to do well at older ages so one would expect his game to continue to decline rapidly. If Dallas doesn’t win it all this year, which they won’t, bringing in Kidd will have long term negative effects on the team.
slickD Said,
February 27, 2008 @ 2:34 pm
Dallas has a back-up center now in Magloire still think their the Phoenix Suns of Old, Eddie?
drsmo Said,
March 9, 2008 @ 10:15 am
Mavs the Suns of the old huh? That’s a good thing…wouldn’t want them to be the Suns v2.0. Ha ha …you must be miserable right now…poor Eddie…your precious Suns probably won’t make the playoffs…then you’ll have nothing to write about…no team to brown nose from…that’s so sad.
Joe Said,
March 25, 2008 @ 11:52 am
This article is only looking at one side of the matchup problems. If Dallas faces the Suns, who is Nash going to defend? He doesn’t stand a chance defensively against Kidd or Stackhouse. And who is Amare going to defend? He can’t possibly guard Dirk all the way out to the 3 point line. If you put Amare on Dampier, that leaves Shaq with no one to guard.
You could do this same matchup game between any two teams, but I don’t think it really means anything in the end.
The real reason the Mavs are struggling right now is because of team chemistry. They’re not used to having a PG who handles the ball so much. Kidd is used to being “the man”, the undisputed leader and best player on his team. Now, Dallas isn’t sure of their identity. Should Kidd handle the ball as much as he did in New Jersey, and force the rest of the team to adjust to his style of play? Or should he be the one who adjusts his game? That’s what they’re going through right now. If they ever figure it out, they could be as good as any team in the league.