Why Phoenix made the deal for Shaq
A few weeks ago I heard about a potential deal the Suns might be involved in, but I brushed it off because around this time of year we hear all kinds of rumors. Then when the Lakers acquired Pau Gasol, my mind started to wonder and mainly because there are two teams that the Suns view as huge hurdles to the finals: the Lakers and the Spurs.
I again started to worry because it meant more Shawn Marion trade rumors and one more round of those rumors could really destroy any progress the Suns made since the Garnett discussions last summer with regards to the Matrix.
Well, here we are again and this time it’s a done deal.
Let’s get one thing straight before I talk about the value of this trade and give my five reasons why the Suns had to make a deal for Shaq and my five reasons why it could work… Shawn Marion is one the best people and players I have ever had the pleasure of watching and the Miami Heat will find out what working hard for 48 minutes is all about when the Matrix arrives in South Beach.
Marion leaves as one of the most consistent and popular Sun players ever and he will definitely be a candidate for the Suns Ring of Honor when he retires. Shawn is the best combination rebounder and defender in this league since Dennis Rodman and the Suns will have to find a combination of players to replace what Marion brought to the table every night in those hustle categories.
I also know Shawn well enough to say that he will indeed miss Phoenix, but he understands that being traded virtually head up for the most dominant player that has probably played is nothing to be embarrassed about.
Although the Matrix factor will be missed, the Suns had to do something. Yes, they have the best record in the Western Conference. But something was not right. The dominance that we were used to see was not there on a consistent basis. We did not see the blowout games or the 20 to 4 runs that this team has spoiled us with over the last three years. The games seemed to be a grind and it wore on the fans and critics and caused us to think that maybe the Suns were becoming vulnerable. That, combined with the improvement of the Hornets, Nuggets, Trail Blazers and Warriors at the bottom of the pack, made a trip to the Finals look hazy and difficult.
So we also must assume the Suns front office and coaching staff had some of the same anxiety because they are extremely giddy at having the opportunity to put Shaq in a Suns uniform.
Here are five reasons why the Suns had to make this move for Shaquille O’Neal:
Steve Nash’s window of opportunity is closing
As each year passes, the Suns cannot expect Nash to continue to create offensively for everyone. Pushing the ball on the fast break is one thing, but having to run the two-man game 40 possessions every night against physical defenses will eventually take its toll. Nash deserves a chance to add a title to his two MVP trophies.
Spurs have never won back-to-back championships
The last time this scenario came to bear, the Dallas Mavericks used a physical combination of Erick Dampier and DeSagana Diop to wear down the Amare-less Suns to move on to the Finals against Shaq and the Heat. The Spurs have showed signs of wear and tear and the Suns do not want to miss out again on this opportunity.
Lakers add Pau Gasol factor
The Lakers could have said we traded for Pau Gasol on Halloween because it scared everyone in the Western Conference. I don’t even play anymore and it scared me. Imagine the frontline of Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum and Gasol. Then combine it with the athleticism and shooting of Kobe Bryant and it’s obvious how every team is saying, “Why is Phil Jackson so darn lucky and why can’t he suffer for long?”
Throw in Trevor Ariza, Jordan Farmar, Derek Fisher and Ronny Turiaf. The Lakers look like a championship team this year.
Suns are 2-6 against the top teams in the West
The Suns have beaten the Lakers without Bynum and they beat the Spurs early in the season. They are 0-2 against the Hornets, lost twice to the Lakers with Bynum and got beaten by the Mavericks. The major reason for the losses has been an inability to defend the paint and the lack of defensive rebounding. Proof lays in the stats of the teams interior players when they play the Suns. Bynum averages 21 and 12. Duncan averages 27 and 17. Chandler averages 15 and 15. All above their season averages. And if you want to look further, Al Jefferson, who plays on arguably the worst team in the league, averages 32 and 16 in two Timberwolves wins this season against the Suns.
Combine this with the foul trouble of the Suns best offensive player, Amare Stoudemire, and we see why the Suns chose to pursue Shaq.
The Portland Trail Blazers and the Greg Oden factor
The Blazers are the team of the future. If Greg Oden lives up to his promise and LaMarcus Aldridge and All-Star Brandon Roy continue to grow, the Suns will have another couple of big bodies to deal with over the next few years.
So now that I have given you why the Suns made the move, here are five reasons why it could work:
First let me say this… I have heard the comment about Shaq is a shell of himself so on and so forth. Give me a break. I predicted the Heat would struggle this year and it was not because of Shaq. It was because of the players Pat Riley surrounded him with. Riley basically signed and drafted players that can’t throw the ball into the post and most importantly did not strike fear in teams with their jump shooting ability. This can ruin any big man that is a threat to post up and be productive in this league, including one of the most dominant ever.
So it’s absurd to judge Shaq on what he has done this year. He deserves to be judged on what he can bring to the Suns.
Suns rise immediately to one of the most physical teams
Shaquille O’Neal is a wall. The most overhyped stat is blocked shot. What about deterrence and altering decisions with the ball? The Suns are at the top of the league in blocked shots, but are viewed as a weak defensive team. The reason they blocked shots is because they got a ton of opportunities. Now that statistic will go down, but the opposition’s in-the-paint scoring will too. That means teams will take more jump shots and the Suns are better at that game than anyone in the league and now they also have the interior scoring of Amare and Shaq to boot.
The Suns are the worst defensive rebounding team in the league because they could not command space. Shaq will allow Amare, Grant Hill, Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, etcetera, to be better rebounders because he will eat up space and punish offensive rebounders with long outlet passes – thus allowing Nash and Leandro Barbosa to leak out.
Finally, Shaq will protect Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire from physical play. Players are physically afraid of him and he will punish you if you take shots at his teammates. I would love to see Robert Horry throw Nash to the floor with Shaq around to punish Parker or Duncan.
Three players that command serious defensive attention
Shaq, Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire will cause teams to change their defensive philosophy during the course of the game, which is extremely difficult to do.
Case in point. How will teams defend the Suns when they run the high pick-and-roll with Amare? Normally teams will rotate the weak side big defender over to challenge him. Well, if that occurs you have Shaq on the weak block flashing in for a pass from Nash or a guard trying to block him out. If teams get silly enough to rotate a small player to Amare, then they allow Raja Bell or Leandro Barbosa to have wide open three-point shots on the weak side.
Mike D’Antoni can use his full playbook now with the back-to-the-basket dominance of Shaq.
Improve the running game
The biggest fallacy about the Suns and their running game is that Shaq will slow them down. I believe it will speed them up and give them more opportunities to run. I have already talked about possessions and the physicality Shaq brings to the Suns.
Now couple that with better confidence with your defensive rebounding – thus allowing Nash, Barbosa, Hill and Bell to run out earlier. The Suns could be even more potent. Also throw in Amare running more because of not having to fight and box out big centers.
I never saw Kareem Abdul-Jabbar running the lanes for the Lakers, but I did see him igniting it with rebounding and long outlet passes, and then coming down on the block with commanding presence.
Amare will become more dominant
Because of the matchup nightmare Shaq would bring, Amare Stoudemire will benefit the most.
Foul trouble should decrease and scoring and rebounding should go up. Also watch for his weak side defense to produce more blocked shots and steals. We have never seen what Shaq could do with a young dominant power forward beside him and he has one of the best in Stoudemire, who should be ecstatic at the chance to stop battling centers every night.
Nash can play without dominating ball
This might be the most important cause of the Shaq trade and here is why.
D’Antoni would love to keep Nash on the floor and use him off the ball, but he knows the offense would stall. The addition of Shaq and his great passing out of the post will allow the NBA’s best three-point shooter to spot up for periods during the game and punish defenses for doubling.
Case in point. Grant Hill throws it in to Shaq with Nash and either Barbosa or Bell on the weak side and Amare on the elbow waiting for the short jumpshot or the run to the basket if they double off of him.
This will destroy any defense and if Shaq stays healthy the Suns will be the team to beat come playoff time.
Adam Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:40 am
Hey Eddie,
This is one of your best articles so far. Like everyone else I think this trade was absolutely insane on the surface. The Suns got a player in Shaq that is much older than Marion, has worse stats, is owed much more money, and seemingly contradicts Phoenix’s style of play. However, your explanation helped me see the method to Steve Kerr’s madness. You should be a defense lawyer or something with the way you spun this case around.
Fredd Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:52 am
Dear Eddie, forget the Noah article’s comments …
I like when I read a deep article like this… thanx from France
Michael Bennett Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:55 am
I could actually hear you salivating as I read this article — You (and all Suns fans) should be excited. Shaq changes the game — always has.
I think you’re spot on when it comes to Amare — he can now play his proper position, PF. That’s scary.
And, you’re also right on about Riley messing up the Heat this year. Poor Dwyane Wade. But, he will have a great 1-2 combo with Marion now.
I don’t think the Lakers are as great because of the Gasol trade. On paper, they look great. But, Gasol, Odom AND Kobe are too much. Kobe needs solid role players around him, NOT another almost All-Star.
The Suns are now THE best team in the league — I thought they were BEFORE the trade. This solidifies them as THE most scary team in the league to play. They can do any/everything.
LBJ Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:57 am
Great article Eddie! A lot of people aren’t seeing it the way you just explianed it but you hit the major points correctly. Shaq doesn’t have to score 25 pts and grab 15 reb. Just him being in the lane instantly improves the defense and if he can average 9-11 rebs he will definately get 12-15 shot attempts a night that means a double double. How many centers in the NBA average a double double?! If he’s healthy he gives the Suns a better chance than Marion did. Nothing against Shawn he always comes to play but he’s not a center. And not to mention Shawn can walk if he decides to at seasons end.
marc Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:58 am
if shaq is healthy, this could work. shaq still attracts double teams. raja and leandro will benefit from this. even boris diaw.
ieatshit Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:59 am
at first i thought this trade suck for the suns… then i read this article
ieatshit Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:07 am
hey eddie,
jut wanna know ur opinion, who do you think will win a championship first… kobe, kg or shaq in phx?
i think kg will win first… la will win nxt yr because they need a season to grow togeher…
Aklan Archer Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:14 am
This sums it up. People just don’t give Shaq a break. As Wilt usually says that people don’t root for Goliath. I hope Shaq would punish the naysayers. Shame on them. Everywhere Shaq went, he kept on winning. Going to Phoenix won’t be any different. Go Suns!
Jorel Jenious Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:15 am
Great Article Eddie,
While everyone is running on the Shaq is over the hill nonsense, His 14 and 8 on horrid ball movement team is at least 6 or 7th best for centers right now. I’ve watched Pau, pretty much every game (yeah, I’m a Memphian) and Pau’s 18 and 8 aren’t much different than Shaq’s 14 and 8, except for the fact that Memphis set up was designed for Pau’s long small forward like game. Shaq’s 14 and 8, with Amare on weakside (and Shaq is a great passer to cutters), and Steve Nash giving him the ball on the block, (high enough for him to turn into the defender with the ball above the shoulder instead of the low, knee level bounce passes from Rick D. and D. Wright) look for Shaq, to get an easy 19 and 8. And for this team, that’s all they need.
Plus, the spacing affect on Diaw, Barbosa, Hill. They still are missing the deep ball threat off the bench that they had last season with Jones (now in Portland) but even Skinner’s game elevates because he get’s to battle with weaker backups instead off starters when Amare gets in fould trouble.
And all this talk about age, when was the last team a young team had a chance to when a championship? Of course Shaq isn’t 28 year old Shaq, but Pryzibla, Oberto, Kurt Thomas, Gasol, Brad Miller, Biedrins, Chandler, Kaman, Camy, Okur, Dampier, (all western conference centers except Yao) will have hell in the pain with this Diesel. Now the question is, who get’s abused by Amare?
Stavros Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:19 am
For the Suns.. there are 10 reasons to like this trade and 100 not to.
The Suns are on the verge of winning it all or going straight to a free fall.
I hope it’s the first because Nash deserves it and I hate to see those boring Spurs with rings again.
Jeff Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:37 am
You can’t be serious…
Maybe the Shaq of 3-5 years ago would have helped this team. Not the Shaq of today who was playing alongside one of the 3 or 4 best players in the game and still had one of the worst records in the league; in the East!
If the Suns decide to slow down their high powered offense and become a half-court team, they become average. If they continue with their “shoot in 7 seconds” mentality, Shaq never participates in the offense, and is just a big body on defense. Also, on offense Shaq will park himself exactly where opposing shot blockers want to be. So much for the Suns high pick and roll offense.
The Suns will soon come to appreciate just how good Marion is and how good of a fit he was for their style of basketball.
Wow, first Hill, now Shaq. I wonder if Jordan or Malone want to come out of retirement. Maybe Barkley is interested.
This trade is awesome…for Laker fans like me!
Mike Z. Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:40 am
Eddie,
I has always been a pleasure have to watch you as a player and commentator with the suns organization. Having had watch the suns since I was younger dating back to the late 80’s the suns had never had that true center; along with a remaining 40 million dollar contact, and age, Shaq bring a distraction in the post for more of a inside-outside game and options if the suns choose to put Shaq on the bench and play Amare at the five spot for more of a fast pace tempo. This is only confuses their opponent as the suns will control much of the game by switching back and forth. As well I agree with you 150% with your comments made regarding “Steve Nash’s window of opportunity is closing, Lakers add Pau Gasol factor, Nash can play without dominating ball, Suns rise immediately to one of the most physical teams, and Amare will become more dominant,” with having to said Shaq will bring the Suns organization its first NBA championship.
Oh and by the way Matrix and Banks contracts were crazy: the suns would not have been able to keep Marion much longer due to the money that he was commanding (as to mention the chemistry issues), and Banks remaining 20 million dollar contract which is only deserving about half due to the contribution he makes to the team. Banks is a good player but not for the suns. Shawn Marion will be missed as for the past 8 years of services which he has given the suns, but this only works in favor for both matrix and the suns for having trading him away.
For all of the Phoenix Suns fans in the world, “get ready for amazing 2008 championship run!”
Mike Z.
KOLY TENGUELA Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:58 am
Eddie,
great article from top to bottom. I agree with all you said but the suns should better get the title this year or it’s going to be too late.
I have a question for you: Is there any truth to the rumors about Marion complaining about shots and creating chemistry issues in the locker room or is that just a media thing. Don’t know if you could answer that without getting yourself in trouble with suns management but once again very good article.
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:11 am
HaaHa.. Keep talking yourself into this one Eddie! You guys are going to miss Marion, mark my words.
Dre Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:11 am
I feel sorry for Shaq, dude is going to be getting killed night in and night out on the pick n roll by every team in the West. He won’t be quick enough to get back on D against GS, LA, Denver, NO, etc. You think this guy can run with Chandler, Bynum, Camby, Duncan, Al Harington, etc.?
All the opposing team has to do is go small and the Suns won’t even be able to put Shaq in the game. Also they gave up their best rebounder, not to mention Shaq’s horrible free throw shooting. Hack a Shaq returns.
When Nash trys to run the pick n roll with Amare, Shaq will fudge everything up by clogging up the paint.
This trade has so many downsides. I also have to mention this guy is very injury prone he could get injured and miss the rest of the regular season or playoffs at anytime, at least Marion was durable.
Also Eddie said you can’t judge Shaq’s play based on what he did with the Heat this season because they did not have players that could get him the ball. Yeah right, they probably stopped passing him the ball because he started missing dunks and layups like Kwame Brown.
Chad Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:11 am
That was a great article eddie.
Mike Z. on the other hand might be crazy
But what you forgot is that shaq will only play 25 min tops in a game.He averages more fouls than he ever did with less minutes. Do you know why, because his 7′1 375 pound frame cannot function. I dont know what the Suns traning staff injects in they’re players but it wont work.
E
ven if they win this year they will never win again because of they’re age. Not only did they get worse, they got older too. The lost they’re best defender, rebounder, and fast break point specialist. When shaq leaves who do you start.
1. Nash- defensive liability
2. Barbosa
3. Bell
4. Diaw
5. Stoudemire
You only have shaq for a small period of time. When this lineup goes in they will be punished by The Spurs, Lakers, Hornets and Mavs. The Suns are 2 and 6 against the west elite for a reason and it wasn’t marion. I agree shaq is a great passer, but no a threat to the elite.
He has to go through L.A. and this time I’m on Kobe’s side.
1. This trade destroyed the chances of a Suns championship now and for the next 3-4 years.
2. Steve Kerr will lose his job, when he brings in Chris Webber next year
3. Nash will prove as the worst mvp ever and only one never to see a finals game, because he never should have been mvp.
Horrible move by the Suns.
KOLY TENGUELA Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:12 am
Michael Bennett,
“Gasol, Odom AND Kobe are too much. Kobe needs solid role players around him, NOT another almost All-Star”
Having a lot of talented players is not a problem when the hierarchy is clear, players know their roles, complement each other and are not selfish. Odom, Gasol and Bynum know who’s the top dog in L.A, are not selfish players and complement each other (Odom with his versatility, Gasol with is low post scoring and Bynum brings the phisicality inside). The Lakers have more than enough role players with Fisher, Walton, Radmanovic, Farmar, Vujacic, Turiaf and Ariza. I don’t know if this will be the year for them, i think that next year with bynum’s improvement and a full training camp under their belt they will have a better chance but if someone can make it work, it’s Phil Jackson.Suns and lakers have been pretty close in their precedent battles and it’s going to be the same this year but it will be the last.
Michael kukich Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:13 am
Great job Eddie, this should be mandatory reading for those 71% who thought this was a bad trade by the Suns. With the Heat playing so poorly and with Shaq’s and Riley’s differences, I think his acute hip inflamation was more of a phantom injury designed to bench Shaq without embarassing him. The Suns medical staff seem extremely confidant that they will return Shaq’s mobility and explosiveness and hopefully that in turn will return some of his vertical lift. I see D’Antoni emulating Showtime with the ageless Abdul-Jabbar being replaced by a very happy and motivated Shaq! I mean just think how thrilling it would be to go from a last place team that is going nowhere to one of the best with an MVP point who can actually throw the ball into the post, two more passers in Diaw and Hill who can do the same, and possibly a fourth in DJ!
Then you factor in the increased production in Amare’s game by not playing center and playing alonside your childhood idol, the increased roles for both Hill and Diaw and there really isn’t any reason to think this does nothing but help the Suns win NOW. Amare also gets that very important mentor to help with his maturation, something I think he sorely missed when they traded KT. People are going to shocked when they see how well shaw will play and the overall improved chemistry of the Suns as Marion might have been productive, I don’t think he was much as a leader in the locker room, that it was quite apparent he was not very happy in Phoenix which was wearing on his teammates.
Suns had to make this trade because I don’t think they were going to get through all of the West playoff teams to the finals this year. just too much size and talent this year. I mean when the original small-ball guru up in G.S. signs Webber for their half-court game you know the West is tough!
Scotty2Hotty Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:20 am
Why do you think the suns win so many games, because the are the hardest team to scout during the season. They’re first mentality is to shoot in the first 7 sec. With shaq that will slow down. When they slow down they use the high pick and role… which also messes up with shaq down there! Are you people out of your mind! That trade was awful. If they wanted defense so bad why did they trade Kurt Thomas. He defended, could run and hit some jump shots.
The lost last night when Chris Paul hanged 42 on Nash.What could shaq have done, on make them score less, because he isnt a suprise.
Michael kukich Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:23 am
Koly, to help keep Eddie’s relationship intact with Marion I’ll print what I heard. Marion wasn’t happy with his role, not really having plays called for him while he did everything else possble. He wasn’t happy about being considered less vital to the teams success than Amare or Nash, such as this year those two were still named All-Stars while he was snubbed. The consensus was that while he showed up and played like a professional every night, his teammates knew he wasn’t very happy and as one of the captains of the team hw wasn’t doing a very good job at being a leader. Marion just isn’t that type of personality to begin with and it was probably extremely difficult for him to try and be happy, productive and a leader. Shaq as we all know is just an over the top, charismatic , outgoing, and now extremely happy person who will just naturally take over that leadership role along with Nash and Hill and you will now see a very happy locker room once again. This trade addresses more than having a true center, it also addresses chemistry and leadership issues.
KOLY TENGUELA Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:30 am
Everyone’s talking about suns and lakers right now but i still think it’s too early to write off the mavs and spurs. The road to the finals will go through those two teams in the west and they still look to me like the most solid right now.Those guys have been playing together for years now and have already made it to the finals, no one will beat them easily.
Chad Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:32 am
Idiots. This is one of the worst trades ever. The whole team just got older, slower, and worse all in one trade. They sent they’re best defender, rebounder, fast break specialist, and versatile player away for the 36 in may year old Shaq. People Shaq’s body has broken down.
He retired two years ago. People give Nash so much credit, but marion is the most important player on the team. In most games and for the past years when the were most succesful, marion led in every categorie except assists and points. He is the offnese and defensive presence.
And for Michael K. The suns only play 7 players in the rotation.Hill has already begun his injuries for this year, shaq will begin. Don’t be so quick to give the Suns staff credit for keeping people in shape. It not that hard to keep a 34 year old Nash in shape. He doesn’t play defense and has zero athletic ability. And he’s also the worst mvp in history and will prove it by being the only one to never see the nba finals. Its a shame if he needs old shaq to do it for him.
The Suns are 2 and 7 against winning teams in the west for a reason. And it wasn’t marion. Shaq has more fouls this year than in his whole career with more minutes. Its over for the suns.
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:33 am
Amare Stoudemire, it has been reported, prefers to play power forward instead of center. Elias Spotrs Bureau, however, points to some numbers showing that he’s more effective as a center. He has a much higher career scoring average as a starting center than in games that he has started at forward (23.2 compared to 17.1). His field-goal percentage is nearly 100 points higher in games he started at center (.574) than at forward (.475). Phoenix’s record reflects those numbers: 152-53 (.746) when Stoudemire started at center, 63-62 (.504) when he started at forward.
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:38 am
Jeff
you had me till you said you were a Laker fan! that told me you hated the trade for obvious reasons. (-:
KOLY TENGUELA Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:38 am
Michael kukich ,
i heard about all that too and and there’s no smoke without fire so it’s probably true.
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:39 am
I can already see the headlines:
Suns lose to Lakers!!
Kobe gets his revenge!!
Shaq no match for Bynum!!
D’Antoni fired!
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:42 am
Dre you said
“All the opposing team has to do is go small and the Suns won’t even be able to put Shaq in the game. Also they gave up their best rebounder, not to mention Shaq’s horrible free throw shooting. Hack a Shaq returns.”
what do you think the Suns want them to do? lol———because they are the best at small ball in the league. thats the beauty of the trade Dre. So in essence pick your poison. you get dominated by Amare or Shaq.
Chris Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:43 am
It wasnt shaq as the defensive presense it was mourning. This sucks man. Im a die hard suns fan, but this sucks.
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:44 am
Hmm.. Eddie, wasn’t Shawn Marion the most productive player in the small-ball system?
Chris Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:44 am
eddie,
The were the best at small ball when they had marion
Chris Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:44 am
exactly sean
Chris Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:46 am
the warriors are now the best at small ball. the suns are ok but the lost theyre best defender in “small ball” and scorer in “small ball”. He got you there hoopshype sportswriter
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:47 am
Chad
thanks for the great insight. now let us know why you are so mad right now? lol
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:48 am
Sean
who was playing center when he was at forward?
KOLY TENGUELA Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:49 am
Chad,
This trade was a desperate one but there’s no chance the suns would have won the title without making a move.
I think the main reason they have done that is that they have no one who can defend Duncan inside. They don’t need Shaq fot getting 45-50 wins but when the playoffs will come and the game will slow down they will need someone to put on Duncan in the fourth quarter and i believe that Shaq can make the job done at least for this year. Neither Amare than Marion can do that but it’s clear that they are going to miss a lot of the things that Marion was doing.
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:50 am
Sean
could happen, but then again if the lakers keep losing to the Hawks —it could be the other way around!
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:50 am
Not someone on the verge of collecting social security checks!
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:51 am
Sean
hmmmm no—-it was Nash and Amare.
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:51 am
I don’t think the Lakers have to go through the Hawks to get to the Finals!
Dre Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:51 am
Wrong Eddie, if the Suns wanted to play small ball they would not have traded for Shaq in the first place. They think he can keep up and help them on D, yeah right. Once Shaq gets forced to the bench when other teams go small they will be forced to play small ball but now they will be playing it without Marion.
So basically the Suns will still be playing the same game, without their third best player and Shaq will be watching.
That means they pretty much traded Marion for nothing.
Chad Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:53 am
Your right, but he still has to learn how to play with them. The reason why the win 45-50 games is because of they’re small ball advantage. When Shaq comes he eliminates that. You cant just switch what you’ve been doing for 82 and then expect to win it all in the post-season.
Right Eddie?
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:53 am
Come on Eddie, don’t discredit what Marion did for your franchise.. Marion is an all-star and argueably could have won the DPOY award the last couple of seasons! Not to mention he is a freak of nature!
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:53 am
Dre
We will see—you read the article my man. Now watch and see.
Chad Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:54 am
And eddie , it was marion
Chad Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:00 pm
And Koly, I understand the had to do something, but for marion don’t you think the could have just gotten a dominant defensive force.If if thats what they wanted the could have kept k. Thomas. Shaq has never been that. They would be better off with Dalembert. Its not just this year thats the problem Shaq has done 3 things to them
1. He may have made them worse
2. He has single handedly closed nash’s window with the suns after this year.
3. He has buried the suns for next year in cap.
Sean Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:01 pm
Eddie,
As far as your article goes, I don’t think Portland will be a serious threat for a championship for at least 3-5 years. By that time, Nash & Kazaam will be sipping pina coladas at a Sands resort in Cabo.
Vincent allen Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:03 pm
Although I agree with 90% of what Eddie had to say, I still believe that the other dominate teams will guard Shaq straight up and make him prove that he can still play at a high level. That being said the Sun have a two year window at best and defensively if opposing teams ie Laker, Spurs, Dallas and even the Hornet make Nash and Shaq beat them there a strong possibility that the Suns will faulter because the other players will have to do things out of character that they have not been ask to do in the past 3 years in their offense. As a reader of this posting you can probably tell that I root for another team and your right I’m a Laker Fan for life however I won’t discount or devalue Eddie’s opinion I’ll just simply say this trade has the making of a very entertaining NBA playoff this year. The true winner may be Boston or Detroit (If they make the Finals) since the winner of the western conference will be beatup trying to simply make it out of the western conference. Parity in sports is nice but most fans really like their team to be dominate and now we have several dominate teams Suns, Spurs, Dallas, Lakers, Boston, Detroit and possibly the Hornets and even Cleveland (Mike Bibby or Andre Miller included), it all depends on seeding and which of these teams is hot during the playoffs.
mariaton Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:13 pm
Hi Eddie
I agree this was a good step for Phoenix. Basically, they will probably get all or nothing. With Marion they would probably finish somewhere between.
However, where do you see Phoenix in two years? Assuming Phoenix will/won’t win the title this/next year, what should Steve Kerr do next year/year after?
Thanks
Chad Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
Headline: Missin’ Marion
Last Night
Suns 130 to 132 loss to Hornets. Not significant.
What is. It went into Double OT
The Suns had 1 steal in the entire game, because no pressure on the ball.
Nash was abused once again by a point guard( 42 by chris paul) and lost the game on defense.
Also when Nash is the leading scorer on his team they usually lose and the other point guard on the team has a great game.
Oh and Eddie No bad blood man. It was an excellent article, I just see marion leaving hurting more than helping, but if shaq comes back like you say, they can make some noise.
but until then……………………………………………. KOBE!
Fernando Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:24 pm
Eddie,
I understand why you wrote the article but unfortunately Sun’s fans are delusional if they think that Shaq is still the dominant force he used to be. Let me be very clear, Shaq was one of the greatest players of all time but the key word there is was. I do not think that the Suns will slow down on purpose but that will be inevitable when Shaq will not keep up. Marion gave that team a legitamate third scorer and Shaq will not. You are quick to say that Miami did not have the role players anymore and that may be why they did not make the playoffs but it seems to me that a Shaq and Wade combo would be enough to keep them out of the cellar. That was not the case though. Good luck Suns you’ll need it.
Fernando
mariaton Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:25 pm
Eddie,
Yet one more question. What do you think this will bring for Boris Diaw. It’s being said that he was losing with Amare, but I think they recently managed to co/work on the court and Boris was rather losing due to Grant ans Shawn (at least because of similar positions/though different roles and skills/ and playing time).
Jax Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:33 pm
Hi Eddie, I would just like to add another reason why this trade is a GOOD trade. To think that Shawn really wants out, and he has the option to opt out of his contract next year… it is really a great deal pulled off here by Steve Kerr - imagine getting a Shaq in return for the Matrix instead of nothing - assuming Marion opts out next year.
Jax Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:40 pm
P.S. i don’t think the Suns will miss Marion much… they still have Diaw and Hill in there to provide the slack.
dodie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
i think shaq is good forthe suns for one reason amare will be in jail killing some people named POWER FORWARD!!! PEACE OUT
KOLY TENGUELA Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
Chad,
Shaq has never been a great defensive player because he never put too much effort on that end of the court but anytime he choose too he was very good. Remember those spurs-lakers battle, a lot of times Shaq was on Duncan in the fourth and he was doing a good job on him . Yes, he’s no more the same player but he doesn’t have the same load to carry on his shoulders also and i absolutely believe that if healthy, he can do a better job on Duncan than Kurt Thomas.
“1. He may have made them worse”
he may make them better come playoff time, no one know. Time will tell.
“2. He has single handedly closed nash’s window with the suns after this year.”
There’s no window for Nash after this year or at the best next year with or without Shaq.
“3. He has buried the suns for next year in cap.”
Giving a max contract to an unhappy Marion would have buried them for many years, he’s 30, can’t give them the title and don’t want to be there.
Ultimately, this is a desperate trade and usually , those are not the ones that give the better results but at least for this year, i don’t think they will be that much worst like you think but next year with no draft picks, no salary cap and aging players they are going to pay a terrible price for this.
Jax Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
i just cant take this… i was checking out the other comments and saw a “Marion” is the most important player of the Suns not Nash… wtf?!?
Jorel Jenious Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:21 pm
what is with this “small ball” garbage? It puts butts in seats, hoorah. But when the Celtics, Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, Spurs, Lakers, and Heat have won championships (all the teams since I’ve been following the game) NONE of them played this ridiculous small ball garbage. If Nellie had Yao Ming in Golden State, they would play inside out, Nellie’s style is an offensive one, but he doesn’t have quality bigs in Golden State.
If Phoenix had Chandler or Dwight Howard, they would start at center, they play the best five, that’s their only advantage because they didn’t have a true 5. Their tough guy for a few years was a 6′9 260lb. Kurt Thomas. And you guys are acting like Shaq will hurt. They took 40million, OVER 2 years, so in 2 if BOTH Shaq and Steve are gone, how much will they have in cap space, with an in his prime Amare, Barbosa, and Diaw. Let’s be real. If not this year, they’ll be hell next year.
Michael kukich Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
“And for Michael K. The suns only play 7 players in the rotation.Hill has already begun his injuries for this year, shaq will begin. Don’t be so quick to give the Suns staff credit for keeping people in shape. It not that hard to keep a 34 year old Nash in shape. He doesn’t play defense and has zero athletic ability. And he’s also the worst mvp in history and will prove it by being the only one to never see the nba finals. Its a shame if he needs old shaq to do it for him.”
OK I’ll bite Chad, what is your point about the seven man rotation? I made no reference to it. DJ has a chance to make it eight but I certainly didn’t make any point about it.
The Suns medical and training staff are currently reconized as the best in the league, that includes Mike Clark, president of the National Academy of Sports Medicine. Steve Nash has benefitted because of his chronic back condition, spondylolsis which causes him back pain or pain in his hamstrings if he trys to compensate for the back pain. It has nothing to do with the level of defense he plays or how much athletic ability he has. Staying in shape and playing professional sports is extremely difficult with that condition, if not impossible.
Grant Hill’s injuries have begun? He has a surgically rebuilt ankle that has endured I think about five surgeries that has held up just fine this year. He had an emergency appendectomy that required surgery and then he came back too soon and injured his back while compensating for the incision in his abdomen that hadn’t healed all the way yet. I hardly see any correlation. The Staff has done a great job of restoring Hill’s confidence in the rebuilt ankle.
Antonio McDyess was traded by New York because McDyess couldn’t come remotely close to his old-self after breaking his kneecap. After the Suns medical and training staff got through with him he had moved into the starting center position and played so well that the Piston’s offered him more money then the Suns were willing to pay him.
Then you have Amare, who has the most successful return of any professional athlete from the dreaded and often career-ending microfracture surgery. Amare’s comeback alone gives the Suns medical and training staff the utmost credibility as being the best in the Nation but in conjunction with the other players I mentioned they are simply miracle workers!
This same staff has examined Shaq has concluded they could help him regain some mobilty and explosiveness so whose opinion carries more weight, the ones of the college educated athletic trainer Aaron Nelson and Mike Clark or you?
Why is it such a shame that Nash, a point guard, needs a center to win a title? Is there an asterick next to Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili’s name because they had Tim Duncan? Is there an asterick next to the Heat’s players because they had Shaq? Detroit because they had five-time DPOY center Ben Wallace? You want a closer comparison? Even Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen had true centers on their rosters, Bill Cartwright, Scott Williams, Bill Wennington, Luc Longley, Will Perdue, Stacey King, etc…they might not have been HOFs and played by commitee but the fact remains they had true centers playing center, not two converted PFs.
As far as Nash being the worst MVP in history in what context? Most Valuable is NOT synonmous with most unstoppable or dominant, or else Kobe would have won several by now. MVP goes to who is most valuable to his winning team and its a popularity contest also. Nash and the Suns style were very successful and Nash was the most vauluable to that success and popularity. The Suns were the leagues biggest road draw, so Nash was most vaulable for bringing the fans to the games. Worst? Yeah, that is why he beat out both Shaq and Kobe. So the 123 sportscasters and broadcasters around the nation who do nothing but watch every game are all idiots and your opinion is more valuable than theirs?
Jorel Jenious Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:27 pm
For all the “small ball” fans, what happened to Phoenix and Golden State in the playoffs in the second round?
They got beat in the Paint by Timmy D / Oberto and Boozer / Okur respectively.
For as special as “small ball” looks in the regular season the only team that’s sniff the finals without a solid 7 footer was the Ben Wallace led Pistons, also anchored by near 7 foot Rashed Wallace.
And the suns don’t need Shaq. Look at the last 10 seasons of Finals basketball.
nashty Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:34 pm
All you laker fans get off this post. Seriously coming on here and damming the trade is pathetic. Just shows you are scared. Also how pretentious are you guys (Phil Jackson included) thinking its just a reaction to Pau Gasol trade. Its nearing trade deadline. These things happen all the time this time of year. I must admit im skeptical but im a suns fan & have trust in Phoenix managment, coching, Traning staff and the core group that remains.
Hey EDDIE are you going to jump onboard and win a tital too. After all you could score 10 points a game still. Just like what u said when reggie was coming back to celtics. You might move into the 20,000 point club & then you will have even more ammo to talk yourself up.
nashty Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
Eddie. Couple questions. All these injuries to Shaq that are meant to magically dissapear. How did they happen? was there one incident or is this just/tear & old age catching up with him. A change of scenery cant cure that. What evidence do you have he can get back to fitness if there nothing they can relate these injuries back to.
Ron Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:41 pm
As a Miami Heat fan, I agree Mr. Johnson. Shaq gives a team all those advantages, but you’ll NEVER see them on the stat sheet.
His years in Miami are greatly thanked, and like he said in his press conference, I’m glad he’s found an unselfish team like Phoenix to contend once again. His presence alone cogs up the lane, and I LOVE the way you put it; Horry wont lay another finger on Nash as long as Shaq is a Sun…cant wait till this year’s playoffs…hopefully he’l play the Lakers and the Spurs/Mavs. I just wanna see Dirk get raped again. After this trade, I’m also a Suns fan just because I wanna see Shaq get another ring, and although I love my Heat, i dont see them doing anything this year(hopefully get Rose in the draft!). THANK YOU SHAQ FOR 2006…MIAMI LOVES YOU!!!
rv2843 Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:42 pm
It looks like a good deal on PAPER. Time will tell. But I think this is a very bad trade for two reasons:
1: it changes a team’s identity which has been built for past three years. Can anyone on Suns defend? No, this team is not a defensive team. It wins by scoring, not by holding down opoenent’s scoring numbers.
2: It disrupt the team’s chemistry. Now who is the team’s #1, #2 or #3? Amare won’t be happy behind Shaq, and I don’t think Shaq will be happy other way around.
Eduardo's Way Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:43 pm
Not only do I agree with Eddie Johnson, I think his numbers will improve drastically because of the extra possessions. Even if Shaq does not block a shot, teams will not be able to penetrate at will like most teams take advantage of. At times San Antoinio takes advantage of Phoenix’s bad posterior defense. I think Phoenix will win the Championship. People didn’t think it would work with Miami and it did. If Shaq is able to win a championship in Phoenix this in opinion will make him one of the greatest champions in NBA history. Seriously, I think of him like Bill Parcells of the NBA only because he makes the team better immediately. Phoenix will be in the conference finals at the very least.
George J Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:46 pm
Eddie, fantastic article. Although I had some disagreements with your opinion of the Noah situation in the last one, I never ever doubted your basketball IQ and it shows again. I think the Matrix is a fantastic player but Miami and D Wade, as much as I respect him, are in for a rude awakening to a life without Shaq and I would love to read your comments on the Miami side of the deal. The Suns will go places with Shaq and it only made sense for them because in the long run they are so dependent on Nash that they cannot really look beyond the next two-three years when he nears retirement. Thank you again.
anthony Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:51 pm
The suns just got really old today.
sure Shaq can help ignite the fastbreak. But who is gonna be on the wing? Hill is likely to have another injury soon. Amare and Diaw on the wing? Their run n’ gun style’s energy level just dropped a few notches.
Too many if’s. But then again, like most are saying. They had to do something because they didn’t have a team built to win a championship.
Xan Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:54 pm
This is very very exciting indeed. What a great article.
You’ve actually brought up a lot of points that Shaq himself has talked about in the press conference this morning: making Amare, Raja, Grant, Steve better! Much better.
Sure Shawn is a talented player and brought great energy, but Shaq is a completely different beast and with his injuries, this is a risky move, but one of those risks that this team Had to take it order to overcome and succeed.
Western Conference now has gotten much better, again, and more exciting.
Can’t wait for the play-offs.
LBJ Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:55 pm
Small ball is fun to watch but when you’re getting out rebounded and your opponent is getting more shot attempts then you are. It’s tough to win at any level. Let’s face it….it doesn’t matter if your center is Ben Wallace or Bill Cartwright. You have to have rebounding, shot altering if not blocking and toughness inside. You may have to do it by commitee rather than relying on two individuals but you have to have it come from somewhere.
Look at the Pistons of the late 80’s that won back to back titles. Dennis Rodman wasn’t a star wild man at that point. He never scored much but he rebounded and helped protect the lane. Lambeer, Mahorn, and Sally did the same thing. None of them were great individual players but they did what they could to handle the middle. Even if it was just a hard foul….which they did often ask Pippen. Or even Eddie. Every championship team in hoops at any level has to protect the paint.
tayshaun Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
I think Miami got the better of the deal. But then again, Shaq was not motivated to help a team out of the cellar.
BRockin25 Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 2:23 pm
Shaq may average single digit pts and rebounds, as well as low 50% shooting…and the trade will still be worth it.
joseph nolan fowler Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 2:38 pm
thats gonna be crazy seein big deisle, amare, nash, hill, diaw, barbosa and bell thats how I spell championship! Nice article… oh yea darold M is a fat dih! Darold is shaqs bro… Ryan L. chubby dih
gooz Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 3:09 pm
Don’t talk smack to Eddie, he’ll make you look like a fool.
From all the message boards i’ve read, about 90% of the negative comments and negative opinion on the trade I see are coming from Lakers fans… interesting..
Javier Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 3:25 pm
Eddie, huge article. I’ve only seen so far criticism of this trade, while it brings huge things to the Suns. I’m a Magic fan who really liked the Suns until they started flopping their ways to defend Dwight. Now I like the Suns even more, with Shaq there. I’ve always liked Shaq, and I think one of the main reasons of his demise (despite the other is being old) is Pat Riley’s way of coaching.
You forgot another thing why this trade could work: have we ever seen Shaq playing with a top-tier, pass-first point guard? Not since the Magic days… I’m very excited to see the competition on the West, and would love to face you guys in the Finals, though first we have to defeat Boston & Detroit.
Let’s sit, watch and enjoy! Cheers!
AB40 Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 3:49 pm
Man this is what I say all the time to my friends, including that shaq with nash could still get 15 and 8 or9. Shaq having an open shot at the basket… when was the last time that happened. Amare Hill and nash getting passes from shaq? that’s a kiiller combination. I never liked phoenix. I still think they’re weak on the defensive end even including shaq. The lakers also but they are just big. My money is still on the spurs when tony parker comes back. But the defensive matchup game that is the playoffs will be more fun to watch(in the west, the east once the bottem 4 get out so Orlando, Detroit, Cleveland and Boston can duke it out.
Balin Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
Eddie great article and it was exactly what I have been discussing with friends. Everybody is expecting Shaq is going put some big numbers up and change everything and that is how the Suns are going to play. Shaq is going to be the big distraction that will enable Amare and Nash to go off. PF are going to be guarding Amare with no double team on the pick and roll. How do you stop that? Shaq is old but if you give him the ball in the paint he will still finish it. On defense Shaq will take up space and as he’s always done, change shots and make player pay for coming into the lane. Remember Shaq wont be guarding the paint by himself, Amare will be in there with him and probably to match up with the lakers, Diaw will be in there too. The main risk on taking Shaq is if he is Healthy to play. Remember Brian Skinner has looked good playing around Nash, so dont think Nash cant make the big daddy look good again.
cd135 Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:09 pm
Uhm…of course Eddie is going to be biast and talk a good game about this trade having a positive effect on the suns, HE WORKS FOR THEM! lol so it’s his job to talk positive about the whole situation, if he said “horrible trade, it’s won’t work because, etc.” he’d be canned. Great article Ed, but I’m not buying it. Too many negatives way out the positive outlook on this matter.
And also you said to one individual “your a laker fan so you must hate the trade”, well, I’m a laker fan, and I LOVE IT! =)
And the whole losing to the hawks thing, big deal, haven’t the suns lost to any horrible teams this year? Most importantly their record against top teams in the west?
Chad Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:18 pm
Michael K
All I’m saying is that Marion hasn’t been happy for years and they still got to the Western Conference Finals. With this trade, they risk they’re short term and long term future.Its a huge gamble!Even If they keep Nash healthy for .. 2 more years.I see you have done your research on the training staff by the way lol, but I dont care how good the Staff is Shaq is good for one more solid season, before he just begins to take up space. So far yes statistically and defensively, Nash is the worst M.V.P. ever. And the only two-time that has never been to the finals. And he has had the help, but to get there you need defensive stops and Nash could never do that. He is not the leader on both sides of the ball.
This trade also made them older, even after this year you have the other top five teams in the west, that play more people in there bench and are younger. And the Suns tend to run out of gas come round 2 of the playoffs. I just dont see shaq keeping up. Like I said before, the win 45-50 games because of they’re style. It will be changed now, in midseason. Its a big gamble. If it works Kerr is a genious, if it doesnt well
Not to Michael
Marion was the most important, because he can lead and finish the break and four out of the last five years led in rebs,blocks,steals,minutes played and he was close in 3 pointers and points. He is also they’re most versatile defender.
BullsNut Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:22 pm
Hmmm this sounds familiar.
Just like how the Bulls were going to compete for 1-seed this season right?
Shaq can’t finish at the basket like he used to. He’ll sometimes not even go up for dunk, instead he’ll miss a layup. He’s hurt and that’s obvious. This is a big risk which could end up good for Phoenix, but I am not counting out the beasts in L.A. Kobe Bryant owns every player in the NBA and we’ll just see how well the three beasts work together.
Eddie you can’t help but be excited. I would be too. Maybe if Shaq doesn’t win one in Phoenix, he’ll come teach Ben Wallace how to shoot freethrows.
hop drop Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:25 pm
am I missing something? I have only seen about a half dozen HEAT games this season, but Shaq DOES look like a shell of himself.
I haven’t seen an explosive dunk from him in quite some time. With that big body, he gets his points in the paint, but he has only got one power move that goes through the defender.
I admit, he will give you a good whack on the defensive end and is still intimidating. But, his defense is lazy and he gets alot of fouls.
maybe he was just dogging it and can really flip the switch. it will be interesting to see.
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:32 pm
Sean
thanks –why dont you write articles for now on. you know more than everyone. good job. you probably thought Shaq would not win one in miami?
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:38 pm
Michael kukich
that was excellent! great post
anthony Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:39 pm
HEADLINE:
STEVE NASH AND AMARE LOOK TO EX LAKER TO HELP THEM DO SOMETHING THEY COULDN’T ON THEIR OWN!
Deshaun Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:49 pm
Great Article. I think this trade benefits both teams. The heat become an athletic team with Wade and Marion, and will start rebuilding next year with the help of a top draft pick. The Suns couldn’t get to that next level with the team they had, so they needed a change. In Shaq, they get the true center that they have been missing, and can move Stoudemire back to the 4. Even though Shaq has slowed down, he still has that defensive presence in the paint that they could use. He still commands double teams, and can kick it out to the Suns shooters. Also, like Eddie said, Nash won’t always have to do everything for the team on offense. Another thing for the Suns, D’Anotoni needs to play more players and make the team deeper. They could also maybe use another pure shooter on team.
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:49 pm
Anthony
headline, Kobe ask Memphis to send them Gasol, Ariza and bring back Fisher. I wonder what would have happened if the Phoenix Suns did not send them Robert Horry?
be quiet! lol
CFatz Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:06 pm
Hi Eddie,
Good writing, but this time I have three reasons to disagree.
1) Shaq’s hip
2) Shaq’s knees
3) Shaq’s back (not Shaq is back but the back of Shaq)
Shaquille is not healthy and that’s for real. His injuries aren’t of the phony Belichick variety (”My quarterback has a bad eh, ankle yeah a bad ankle). If Shaq can’t get on the floor, he can’t play, if he can’t play he can’t help the Suns win games. The only way Shaq can help the Suns in his current state is to heal and be the beast that he was in 2002 and earlier for the full run of the playoffs. For him to expend his health before then and pull up lame for the playoffs makes this trade a bad one for the Suns.
Steve Kerr has to know this. For this reason I see a different reason for the Suns agreeing to this swap. They are trying to put the Heat in debt. In the next couple of years the free agent class will include LeBron James, Andre Iguodala, Kobe Bryant, Emeka Okafor, Andrew Bynum, Elton Brand, Antawn Jamison, Gil Arenas, and yes Shawn Marion and their own Steve Nash, plus Chris Paul. It could be difficult to be a serious player in the free agent market as their salary payout is structured over the next couple of years, but now if the Suns had someone who owed them a favor…someone who could eat a contract or serve as a clearing house for unneeded players while they make a play for a big-name big-talent free agent, well things might go a lot better for them.
I don’t see Shaq in his current state helping Phoenix on the floor, I believe they sent the more valuable Matrix to Miami while the Diesel finishes his days in the comforts of the dry heat in the desert.
CF
:0)
Kemal Budak Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:12 pm
Everybod is talking about the pros and cons of this trade from the angle of Suns. But when we look at Heat. They at least have a kind of warranty to keep Wade in the team. D-Wade, Marion and a player coming from one of the top picks in the draft and other solid role players like Haslem will make the Heat a playoff team again next year. The contender? I think we gotta wait for the maturity of the player who will be coming out of the draft (if nothing goes wrong…)
David Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:12 pm
The biggest winner here is Shaq. He gets to go from zero to hero. He gets to leave a team that would struggle to get 20 wins this year and with no future to speak of, to a team that already had a legitimate shot (I said legitimate, not sure) to get to the finals. What more could he ask for (besides the 40M left n his contract)? He was starting to look like Ewing when he played for the Sonics. Now he can come save the day where he is an obvious fit…a good team with no center.
The Suns will miss Marion, but he had 1 foot out the door anyway, so props to Kerr for pulling the trigger.
Eric J Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:23 pm
The “Suns win 45-50 games because of their style?”
More like 60-63. Where you been since 2004-5?
BullsNut Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:32 pm
Dreaming about courtside Bulls tickets….
Eric J Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:40 pm
Hey Eddie. I’m from Phoenix but living in Israel for 6 months due to my girlfriend’s job in research. It’s painful knowing I’m going to miss the games, especially now (!), until April. You have always been my favorite commentator when watching local broadcasts.
Some interesting moments with you have been when I’d watch the ESPN/TNT broadcasts for once, Suns give up a lead, commentators pick Suns style apart, I go crazy and put it back on you guys, I hear you confident as can be about the Suns, Suns regain lead and win big. Believe it or not it’s happened on multiple occasions. There’s nothing like hearing complaints about my Suns, switching to my45 and hearing you say something like “They better watch out for Amare right here” right before Amare dunks on peoples heads consecutive trips down the court, and the Suns regaining control.
I was relaying this story about you to my ex-coworker before I left for Israel, and he said “Yeah he’s a great guy!” Turns out he goes to your church. His name is John Pirtle and used to go by J.P. at work. If you see him tell him I was thinking about him.
Anyways, your confidence has literally taken control before as shown on my TV screen so it comes with much relief to read your article, especially since I’m so damn emotionally invested in these Suns. Thank you.
sage Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:42 pm
Wow, I can’t help but be awed by Pat Riley. He knew shaq had at least 1 title run in him and deposed of him when he (best evaluator of shaq’s current status) was given Shawn Marion and another player as a reward for his creativity. This year and last year Shaq has been so much injured and getting paid $20 million, 1 mil for 20 games, 500k for 40 games this year. Riley said so this is what the downside is…must bailout soon! People just don’t become healthy and play like a 30 year old. He is not a 35 y/o pro specimen but a 40 year old pro specimen with his aversion to hard work. He will breakdown.He will try….get betrayed by his body and…. get injured again. He has a low pain tolerance and will skip games for the smallest reasons… and will have surgery on company time… His mindset is also a problem. Ask Pat Riley. He was spiraling downhill after he had given Miami a championship, back to his old ways as a Laker. Did you see his games this year? without Mourning playing defense…he was exposed more.
Thanks Pat Riley for the assist. Shawn Marion has been a thorn all these years, guarding the best players and putitng up clutch points, always the first guy on the fastbreak, young and injury free. i wont miss him a bit…
Phoenix….thanks for getting Shaq instead of Dallas because he would have been a better fit there and more problems.
Trash that smells good is still trash….its up to you to RECYCLE!!!
Fran Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:47 pm
I like the way you write, why don’t you write more? bye
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:53 pm
“Finally, Shaq will protect Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire from physical play. Players are physically afraid of him and he will punish you if you take shots at his teammates. I would love to see Robert Horry throw Nash to the floor with Shaq around to punish Parker or Duncan.”
I’m still laughing. Suns now have another fool who will enter to court and get 1 game automatic ban.
Michael kukich Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 5:54 pm
Here is Shaq’s injury history the last couple of years.
04-05: missed 3 games due to sprained left knee.
05-06: missed 18 games due to sprained right ankle.
missed 2 games due to hyperextended left knee.
missed 1 game due to sprained right thumb.
06-07: missed 42 games due to surgery to repair small tear in menicus cartilage in right knee.
07-08: tendinitis in knee during training camp and inflamation in left hip and quadriceps muscle.
Shaq hurt the quadricep muscle diving for a loose ball and the hip inflamation is simply a result of compensating for the pain or possibly from tendinitis in the knee.
The Suns medical and training staff excel at these types of compensation injuries. They will allow the injury to heal and the put Shaq on a regimen of special excercises that will stop the compensation by changing the use of different muscles and strengthening under-used ones. I think a lot of people will be shocked to see how much shaq can offer after the Suns staff gets through with him. they wouldn’t risk so much if they weren’t completely confident they could help Shaq get healthier than he has been since 04-05. Sarver bet that extra $20 million he will owe Shaq in 09-10 on it and we all know how frugal he is.
2DecadesOfSunsMiseryOver? Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 6:01 pm
Not sure why, but Eddie’s comments have made me post my first ever Basketball comment ! As an eternal but quiet suffering ( … all of sudden vocal) Suns fan who had to go through pains worse than puberty, I too initially was very sceptical and apprehensive. But the more I analyzed it and read just about every article about this trade on the net, in my opinion Eddie’s article just nails it like a Nash No look lob to Amare (or Marion … god bless and good luck to the unsung hero).
Despite whatever happens in the playoffs, no one can argue that this trade hasn’t added a lot of intrigue and excitement into what is already turning out to be a milestone year for the NBA.
Suns Basketball is ultimately about entertaining the fans on their quest to the becoming champions, and the sheer audacity and bravado they’ve shown yesterday is a Champion in motion.
ERnie Williams Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 6:08 pm
Eddie,
First, a comment about what has happened to the Sun this year. The league has caught up to them. Every team in the west can score on the same plane as the Sun now, so they don’t have the edge they used to have. Getting Shaq will not solve that problem, and may cause their scoring to come down.
You are very optimistic about the Shaq trade but not very realistic. I guess as a Sun fan you have to look at the potential bright side. You seem to think that Shaq will get double-teamed, and I say, or what? How much can he score these days if you don’t double him? Shaq is a brute. He has no basketball skills worthy of his status. The refs don’t let him run over people anymore, so he is a shadow of his former self.
If he is so good why is Miami the worse team in the league? He had D. Wade, one of the top ten players in the NBA and couldn’t deliver.
I am a Lakers fan and respect what the Sun has done to us the past two years. They were favored to beat us in the playoffs because they were better they us. But we no longer have the talent deficiencies we had then. We are simply better that the Sun now, and will prove it if we meet in the play-offs this year.
What the Suns lost from Marion
1. Great defense (he guarded Kobe better than anyone else in the league)
2. Speed
3. Finishing capability
4. Flexibility on offense and especially on defense
5. 3 point shooting
6. Rebounding
What they gain with Shaq
1. Foul prone
2. Slow
3. Cumbersome on offense and defense
4. Terrible free throw shooting
5. Average passer from the post
6. No 3-point shooting
7. No game past 10 feet of the basket
8. Fumbles passes, and turnover prone
9. Never been a good rebounder
10. He can still dunk an offensive rebound
Ronny Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 6:11 pm
Hi Eddie, I can only agree to what Fredd from France said: “I like when I read a deep article like this” (2nd seed) — thanks and greets, from Germany.
sage Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 6:37 pm
I guess the Phoenix medical staff is better than the Heat then when they say they can rehab shaq and make him the shaq of 2 years ago even. Its worth a try! Not!
..but the pro human body is the same whoever orthopedist sees it and medicine has not changed.MRIs dont lie, meniscal tears, hip and spinal degenerative tissues don’t lie..how much cartilage in his knee does he have left…..its all there to see. it wont go away..its part of aging!!! Thats why people who are more athletic pro players who took care of their bodies still retire at this age…..more so him, who didn’t take care of himself.
I bet the Heat management, medical team knew exactly what they were doing when they unloaded the garbage! They bluffed and the first call they got, they pushed all in!!!!!
Pat Riley, you fooled the Lakers when you dumped garbage on them for Shaq and now you’re still dumping garbage and getting an all-star in return. A real hustler!!!!!
Shaq is not a “player” ….but a PRAYER…….miracles do happen!!!
Just ask the Giants and the Tyree pass!
Rashidi Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 6:47 pm
The more I thought about the deal, the more I liked it. Amare really needed to get back to PF. His jumper is much improved to the point where I think he’s probably as good a shooter as Marion. And the truth is the Suns were never going to beat the Spurs with Marion guarding Duncan.
That said the big fella isn’t going to get anymore minutes than he’s getting now, if anything he’s only gonna be playing half the game. If anything this opens up more PT for Boris Diaw to do his thing.
The Suns need a backup PG now, in case something happens to Nash or Barbosa. I think the best option available right now would be the Glove, Gary Payton. He has 3 years of experience playing with Shaq, and he brings something to the table that guys like Nash and Barbosa (and former free agents Damon Stoudamire and Earl Boykins) don’t - a defensive mentality. Truth be told, GP is basically an older, cheaper version of Marcus Banks right now. He isn’t as good a defender anymore, but he won’t be a turnover machine like Banks is running the offense. He’d be a good candidate for spot duty, he doesn’t need too many minutes in the rotation.
jn Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 6:59 pm
Oh, yes, I forgot how much Shaq enjoys “special exercises” and his aversion to missing games.
Rone Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 7:15 pm
Isn’t SHAQ the same guy that said something along the lines of..
Nash did NOT DESERVE the MVP Trophies???IM just saying..
LJ Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 7:22 pm
Suns are desperate….a very disappointing move. They just opened the door to the basket. Bell is the only decent defender on the perimeter so everybody else is going to go straight to the rim. Amare’s not a smart defender and Shaq doesnt move laterally at all and racks up fouls much quicker now. Players don’t fear him like they used to. They shouldve kept Kurt Thomas. Sarver blew it…again. Oh well…our Suns will just have to wait another decade for a shot.
enrique Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 7:44 pm
Very funny.this article makes sense……………..if this was 5 years ago when shaq was putting up around 28ppg and 12rpg.
What was the suns GM thinking, now its safe to say its
lakers vs. celtics in the finals.
Lakers make a perfect move in getting Gasol, Celtics make a great move in getting KG and Allen and Spurs make a smart and descent move in signing
Damon Stoudamire. Its not to late for the Mavs to get J.KIDD…but SHAQ for MARION and BANKS trade, c’mon eddie.
Michael Bennett Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 8:13 pm
*Lakers made their move first — decent pick-up in flimsy Gasol.
* Phoenix got Shaq — front-runners for the ring now.
* When will Dallas deal for Kidd? CAN they deal for Kidd?
* And, sorry Spurs fans, Damon Stoudemire won’t cut it — The Spurs are a long ways away from a repeat.
* In the East, LeBron, no matter who he’s grouped with, is dominating the court — e’s the MVP/Best Player in the World.
* Boston is slipping, but that’s because Garnett’s tummy hurts — Come back soon, KG!
* Detroit is rockin’ and rollin’, but are they past their prime?
I’m very scared of the Suns. They are really going to be special now. Shaq is such a game changer. He allows the Suns to beat every team two different ways on offense — half court demolition, or run you out of the building. Steve Nash will get his first ring, Shaq his fifth this year. GuaranSHEED.
Michael kukich Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 8:18 pm
Oh, yes, I forgot how much Shaq enjoys “special exercises” and his aversion to missing games.
Maybe on a losing Heat team but with Suns he will be practicing significantly less than while he was playing for Pat Riley. He has made the verbal commitment to abide by whatever plans the training/medical staff has for him, based partly on what Hill has told him and the results of their work on Nash, Amare & Hill. This is a highly motivated Shaq looking to prove fans like yourself wrong. History is on his side.
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 8:23 pm
CFatz
Shaqs knees checked out
shaqs back checked out
shaqs hip checked out
shaq has 11percent body fat and weighs a career low 312
now what?
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 8:24 pm
Onur
no he will wait till later!
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 8:26 pm
Rashidi
i have finally agreed with you. what is thios world coming too. lol
Melvin Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 8:32 pm
I think finally the Phoenix feel they dont need to run anymore..
now eddie? what is going to happen to HEat?
http://basketballnonsense.blogspot.com/2008/02/shaq-attacks-west-coast.html
Melvin Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 8:34 pm
Anyway I lkie this article…
djhott Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:24 pm
phoenix got what they where missing, a 71 center to defend, and dunk
play 28mins, that still gives phoenix 20 mins to run&gun , maybe just good for this year, and next, but phoenix &la make it real hard for the spurs to 2peat, and nash’s defense is and never will be great, as is shaqs free throws. but amare&shaq inside, with the best passer nash, the best defender bell, and hall of famer ghill,6th man of year barbosa, and diaw, nuff said.
get article eddie
and jokim noah should still shutup
djhott Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:32 pm
michael bennett, kidd is going to cleveland, for drew gooden,d.jones, &d.gibson
and the trade works for marion
miami will get d.rose& sign elton brand
randy Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:46 pm
omg…what are the suns going to do next…??? Steve Kerr will leave his GM job and sign with SUNS and Eddie Johnson will come out retirement…who else??? Tom Chambers and Charles Barkley…Phoenix should change their name from SUNS to SENIORS citizens…
nashty Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:32 pm
Hey Eddie you didnt answer my question. Do you think you can help their chance by coming off the bench for 10 points a game? i figure if boston didnt give u a call the sons may be intersted. I think your ego compells you to do so. Also on the 10 points you claim you could score, how do you think you could score them? I doubt it if you played 48 mins. Also are you pissed you didnt reach 20,000 point club?
nashty Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:34 pm
suns^^^ derr
MC Welk Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:43 pm
Yo Eddie, no mention of the Jazz? They seem to match up pretty well with the Suns.
tdawg Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:53 pm
Hey Michael Bennett…how exactly does this make sense?:
Kobe needs solid role players around him, NOT another almost All-Star.
what the hell? That’s what Kobe has had for the last 3 yrs…solid role players around him…where did that get him? First round exits to the SUNS
Now that he FINALLY has a legit all star in Pau, a solid ROLE PLAYER in Lamar (yes, he’s a role player who COULD be an all star) and budding all stars in Farmar and Bynum…and then role players in fisher, radmanovic, ariza, and turiaf…
I think your forgetting the Suns are not very deep…they have nash, bell, diaw, amare, shaq, hill, barbosa and skinner…solid 8…but the lakers go 12 DEEP…
Face it, Lakers are DEEPER, YOUNGER, MORE ATHLETIC and just flat out BETTER than the suns…you took a chance with shaq, lets hope you dont end up like the Miami Heat of this year in 2 yrs…cuz thats your window..its CLOSING…while the Lakers window JUST opened…
Have fun with yet another disappointing season…and at least you’ll finally know how us LAKER fans felt when Shaq took time off on company time….
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:54 pm
nashty
basketball is a younger than me game—heck i played till 40. that was enough. watch me All Star saturday night in New Orleans.
eddie Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:55 pm
tdawg
what are you basing that on? i hope not the last two years when you went on vacation!
tdawg Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:57 pm
eddie, lakers losing to the hawks? is that really your basis? that was on the 2nd night of a back to back mind you and KOBE had a dislocated finger…dont try to back up your claims with “lakers keep losing to the hawks”…get out of here with that crap!don’t be sucha suns homer when you talk…I think this trade helped the Suns but they’re still not better than the Lakers…at least i can admit that
tdawg Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 10:58 pm
and i was basing that on the 2 games we played against you guys earlier this year with Bynum…
tdawg Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:00 pm
not to mention the Suns play their starters HEAVY minutes and even their 6th man Barbosa a ton of minutes…you dnt think that’ll catch up to the suns? ESP Shaq? Now your iron man Marion is gone…Hill more minutes? Not sure thats a good idea….your hope can be Diaw going back to playing like he did before he got paid
Ken Ralph Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:16 pm
I thought Shaq would slow the Suns down, but after reading your comments i can see the positives alot clearer. I guess it’s a matter of time before Shaq brings another championship to a new team.
Dave Said,
February 7, 2008 @ 11:41 pm
This deal would have been great IF SHAQ WERE AN EXPIRING CONTRACT, allowing this year to be a good run at the championship.
They lose Marion who never played well beside Diaw when Stoudemire returned and the two went from Diaw C and Marion PF to Diaw PF and Marion SF…the Suns instead of this should have pushed more for Garnett, the league MVP right now and the team would be going to beat the bulls single season win title of 72…Garnett has the athletcism suns need….and is great defender and shot blocker..
Who knows if fast-breaks uns will work with Shaq….if they this will be last year of Shaq dominance…guy is clearly breaking down…plays barefly half the game…7 rebounds and 12 points is nothing…..his scoring is can still be good for his limited minutes…rebounds and defense are poor….and 2 more years and 40 million will kill the Suns…guy is approaching 38…2 more years are ridiculous really for his age and body condition….next two years he will not play more than 60 games either season, if that….and who knows if he will be injured in post-season……This is a short term solution but not a long term one……I assumed in this trade part of it was the Suns buying out remainder of Shaq’s contract and it was just a buyout……this is just ridiculous…Shaq is too often injured…..there is a reason he won’t be an all-star this year.
A guy that is a far cry from an all star THIS YEAR who is approaching 38, and body is disintegrating/falling apart with 2 more years 40M$ (as opposed to Marion who is expiring) is a nightmare for any team….Also as Suns don’t want to pay luxury tax as a team, if Shaq goes down or his play level lessens this sucks for the Suns as they will have no money to sign anyone even for mid-level to replace him.
Kerr should have instead been more aggressive with Garnett…..talked Marion into it, why it would make sense for him…got Garnett excited about it….this was his biggest failure not reaching out to Garnett….Marion does all the little things Suns need…and if Grant Hill making NBA welfare (min sal) if Hill retires which is always possible at seasons end, what will Suns do? Another thing Marion got more rebounds AS A SMALL FORWARD than Shaq AS A CENTER…50% more…..they will lose rebounds at forward and at center have someone who is a poor rebounder…Shaq is not the player he once was…Getting rebounds is a key to a fast break offense.
Nashty Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 12:02 am
hey eddie. was just watching bulls V Warriors. Someone sent in questions commentators couldnt answer. Lets say shaq got voted in by fans for all star game what would happen now hes been traded to west???? ps bulls suck
Jason Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 12:10 am
Chad,
Their is a possessive. Ex. Their ball or their house, etc.
They’re is short for They are. They are in trouble or They’re in trouble.
There is used for an adverb, pronoun, etc. There are 5 lights. There is another way.
While we are on the topic.
Two is numerical.
Too is an adjective. As in too much. They have a center too.
To is a preposition. As in to Shaq or not to Shaq. That is the question.
eddie Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 12:32 am
tdawg
what are u basing that on? last two years they went home. you should worry if Bynum can make it back and that Kobe does not get hurt. my point is it’s all conjecture pal.
let’s wait and see because last i heard LA fans did not think Shaq could win another title.
Anthony Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 12:35 am
Eddie,
I love your Suns and I am from Canada,
I think this deal is a DOUBLE EDGED SWORD DEAL, if Shaq gets to know the playbook and his spots on the court, the suns will dominate!! BUT if Shaq gets injured for 2 months, they are DONE FOR!!! and they will drop to the 5th SEED LIKE A ROCK and lose to anyone in the 1st round! Shaq should be playing more inspired because he has nash and great 3pt shooting ppl around him. If they need to go slower, they shoul imply the Rick ADelman 2-man Game ala Divac and Webber.
sunsdotcom Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 12:48 am
i want the suns to play fast, but not small anymore. we had to play small ball because of the personnel we had back then. if there’s a chance to go bigger, then get it done. i’d personally sacrifice some speed to get bigger.
and marion may be fast, but he’s such a poor ball handler. He’s a great finisher, but not a great open court player. there’s a difference there. manu’s a great open court player, shawn’s not.
and to further explain the thinking behind the trade, here’s what i wrote a few days before the big trade.
============
tdawg Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 12:50 am
just like your saying that we should hope Bynum gets back…dont worry about him…he will be back…Mitch came on AM570 this morning and confirmed that bynum is lookin really good as if he was not even injured…
but what YOU should be worrying about is whether shaq can stay healthy or not…he’s been up and down the last 2 yrs or so…and please Shaq’s title was a fluke anybody in their right mind knows Dwade got ridiculous calls in crucial moments of those games…but whatever look what happened to Miami…they rented their ring for a year and then 2 yrs later they are the laughing stock of the league…they got out of that quickly by trading Shaq…u better hope suns dont fall into a blunder…
you keep going back to the lakers going home the last 2 yrs…u keep forgetting how much more improved our roster is this year compared to the last 2…i can name a couple: Derek Fisher, Jordan Farmar, Trevor Ariza, Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum….granted we had bynum and farmar last year….adding fisher, ariza and pau improves both offense AND defense in areas we lacked last year…u forgot we had smush FRICKIN PARKER as our starting PG….and KWAMAYYYY BROWN as our starting center!!!!
Thats my basis, is our IMPROVEMENT and our absolute domination over the suns in BOTH games when we had our full team…dont keep using last 2 yrs as your basis cause we dont even have the same team…
I agree the Suns will benefit from the Shaq trade in the size department cause thats what they lacked most…but i dont believe they will be able to handle us in the playoffs…you forgot we have the best player in the WORLD and the best coach in the world still…to go along with Lamar, Pau and Bynum…..i would LOVE to see amare play some defense on Pau or Bynum…or better yet…lets see what SHaq has left on the defensive end…see you in may
tdawg Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 12:54 am
and you didnt answer my question about the suns key players playing HEAVY minutes….doesn’t that have any affect on how they will perform in the playoffs? I think the Lakers key players will be fresher than Suns key players…which could end up being the difference in a game 6 or 7…
sunsdotcom Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 1:00 am
btw eddie, i loved your comment about boris after he sashayed his way for an easy finger roll against jannero pargo.
lol. the problem with boris is that he hesitates too much when he should be attacking the mismatch inside. he lacks the killer instinct to punish small defenders like chris paul and pargo in the post.
KOLY TENGUELA Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 1:47 am
Once again, i am surprised by how quick people are to write off the mavs and spurs.In order to win a championship, you need 5 things: experience, defense, chemistry, stability and some luck.
On most of those criterias, mavs and spurs seems to be ahead of the suns and lakers.
Just try to forget all the hype and be objective and make a comparison between those 4 teams, you are going to be surprised.
As usual, it will come down to matchups ( remember GSW-MAVS) and which team is hottest.
In the east, also everyone’s talking about the celtics but i am not convinced at all they are going to beat the pistons and cavs in the playoffs.
It’s human to be excited on the new thing but mavs and spurs are still ahead of the suns and lakers in my opinion. Time will tell
sonnydelite Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 2:15 am
Shaq to the suns for Marion??? Are you kidding me?? Worst trade ever!! Marion was the man on the Suns. He was the energizer buddy and did all the work! Suns got screwed! Suns will be a bunch of grumpy old men just like Eddie. People are living in the past. Shaq can’t even play yet until maybe after the allstar break. Your mind can only go so far to trick the body that it can still play until the body realizes its time to hang them up. There are too many SHAQ as@ kissers. Maybe you guys go his parties and he pays you off with women, or maybe you guys are too scared to say anything bad about him. Shaq is no role model. He has tons of kids with different women. You think he is the man? He is an overpaid waste. He is worth what Andrew Bynum is making now maybe less. I hope the lakers never retire his jersey.
Marion got the hell out of there because his coach is the biggest cry baby sissy I have ever seen. The Suns are a bunch of soft sissies. Also, Dywane Wade sucks as well. They barely won the title and who the hell voted him as 50th most beautiful people that one year?? What a joke and all this commerials are a joke. What an over rated joke.
Anyway, they gave Marion away and he was the key reason of Suns success. He rebounded, defended, scored, and brought energy to the team. They should have traded Moses. His knees will not last for long.
Is this the best Stern can do to save the NBA??
LeBron is King
Kobe is God
Gasol is still the Spanish Fly
B-right Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 2:56 am
Chad
Are you an only chid?
Vincent Warren Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 3:03 am
I think Kerr shows a lot of guts in making this trade. I”m not privy to the goings on in the Suns locker room, but if Marion wasn’t getting along with the team (as was rumored) and it looked like he wouldn’t re-sign after this season, then it makes sense to get something substantial rather than letting him get away for nothing.
My doubts about Shaq, though, are similar to the doubts I had about Ben Wallace when the Bulls signed him. In the last 4 years Shaq’s points per game totals have been 22.9/20.0/17.3/14.2. That’s a drop-off of 3 ppg a year three years in a row; his rpg have been 10.4/9.2/7.4/7.8. It’s been my experience watching the NBA that when a guy’s numbers decrease steadily for a four year period that there’s no turning back. Shaq is nearly 36. It’s reasonable to expect his numbers next year to be around 12 & 6. If the Suns win it this year, it’ll have been worth it, but if not, they are paying 20 million to a guy with numbers that are less impressive than those of Bogut or Ilgauskas.
KChamp13 Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 3:04 am
The national guys are making this sound bad for the Suns and I can’t blame them … because they don’t know as much about the Suns as those of us who watch them three times a week!
Okay, so all the national guys want to criticize the suns for trading Marion and two major reasons they cite are his rebounding and his speed on the fast break. They say Marion was better than Shaq at both of these - and they’re probably right.
However, there is a contradiction in their concern. Marion was either leading the break or rebounding. He couldn’t do both at the same time right? So, that means if he was sneaking out on the break he was leaving Amare as the only rebounder. Or, if he was rebounding … wait a minute … there must have been someone else leading the break!!!
Oh my! Could it be that if Shaq stays back to rebound with Amare the Suns might actually gather more rebounds? And, if there was someone else leading the break when Marion was gathering rebounds, could it be that the Suns’ fast break won’t die now that Marion is gone?
Like I said, the national guys’ arguments make sense - but only from the perspective of someone who doesn’t watch the Suns play three times a week.
KChamp13 Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 3:05 am
SUNY-D you should read my last post.
Kingsblade Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 3:51 am
Chad:
I’m curious…do you the consider Dirk to be a good defensive player? What about Larry Bird for that matter?
Concerning statistics….that is a pretty dubious methodology for determining importance (hence value) to a team. It is also a dubious argument to claim he is the worst statistical mvp. As far as I can remember the only other point guard mvps were Magic and Cousy. (Someone please corrent this if I am wrong…no Iverson does NOT count as a PG) While statistically he definitely fell short of Magic (most other mvps do as well) he had a bit better stats than Cousy did.
Comparing him to other positions as mvp is pointless.
Kingsblade Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 4:01 am
sonnydelite:
You are one crazy dude. I don’t even know what you are talking about in most of that. I do have one question though…what is the energizer buddy? Is it anything like the bunny?
I also think it is pretty naive to call all of the Suns players soft. Stoudemire has proven that he is not. Bell has proven that he is not. Even Nash cannot be called soft. He can be called significantly smaller than a lot of players, so he has difficulty at times matching up physically, but that is not at all the same thing as being soft. (ie: the bleeding head incident) I actually very much considered Marion one of the soft ones. He competed hard and worked hard, but when things got too tough he disappeared. That is the epitome of soft.
Ithink that it is accurate that the Suns have some soft players, I just don’t think it’s accurate to paint them all with that brush.
joey Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 5:02 am
As a Laker fan, I like the trade for 2 reasons:
1. Kobe vs Shaq never gets old. And now the rivalry is on steroids!
2. Marion really killed the Lakers on both ends of the floor. Nice to see him go.
Suns owner likes this trade for one huge reason:
1. SHAQ IS A MARKETING MONSTER. Ticket sales will increase, and merchandise will fly off the shelves.
BTW: Wade and Marion look like a Jordan and Pippen combo. Watch out for the Heat.
dre Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 7:29 am
“So it’s absurd to judge Shaq on what he has done this year. He deserves to be judged on what he can bring to the Suns.”
correction: what YOU think he can bring to the suns
“Finally, Shaq will protect Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire from physical play. Players are physically afraid of him and he will punish you if you take shots at his teammates. I would love to see Robert Horry throw Nash to the floor with Shaq around to punish Parker or Duncan.”
I think there’s a difference between the suns being more physical and opponents being less physical out of fear of shaq.
“Now couple that with better confidence with your defensive rebounding – thus allowing Nash, Barbosa, Hill and Bell to run out earlier. The Suns could be even more potent. Also throw in Amare running more because of not having to fight and box out big centers.”
IF shaq can get boards. he’s lost lift and quickness which made him a good rebounder (along with his size of course)
Also you can’t forget about shaq’s health concerns. everything you said in the article won’t mean jack if shaq can’t keep healthy.
for me, the trade doesn’t really make that much sense (aside from everyone in the suns organization). they couldv’e gotten a younger, more defensive center who could have helped with their problems in the middle, but they went with shaq who had a $20M price tag. it was a deperate move by steve.
eddiesucks Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 7:54 am
shaq is tough ei then why did he protect dwade from ben wallace and rasheed spurs are not dirty as what you think total crap article
djhott Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 8:16 am
UMM YOU GUYS PREDICTIONS ARE NOTHING, DID ANYONE PREDICT THE GIANTS WINNING IT IN FOOTBALL?
NOW KOBE WILL BE SHAQS REAL ARCH RIVAL, HAVING TO GO THROUGHT THEM IN THE PLAYOFFS
MARION WANTED TO LEAVE,AND THE SUNS GOT A 7FOOTER, SINCE AMARE CANT EVEN STOP AL JEFFERSON
SHAQ IS A FAKER, BUT IN THIS CASE GOOD FOR PHOENIX
HE WONT BE HURT AND MISSING LAYUPS LIKE THIS YEAR IN MIAMI
AND RODNEY CARNEY DUNKED ON WADE LAST NIGHT
AND WADE GOT HIM BACK
I WOULDNT BET NO MONEY IN THIS YEARS PLAYOFFS,BECAUSE IT WILL BE GREAT
ELITE 5
1.PHOENIX
2.LAKERS
3.SAN ANTONIO
4.BOSTON
5.DETROIT
CFatz Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 9:04 am
312 pounds? For real? That’s pretty good. But I’m still not sold. A team doctor under special instructions can overlook a lot of anomalies in someones checkup.
Hey I hope this worx 4 the Suns. I’m not skeptical not about what Shaq potentially brings to the team, IF HEALTHY. This trade is super for the Suns your post made that clear. BUT can his body really endure 25 - 30 minutes through Feb and March AND the Playoffs too? I think the best medicine really is for Shaq to sit until the second week in April. Even then it’s dicey
CF
CFatz Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 9:05 am
Oh Yeah, between now and 2010 let’s see if Miami gives Phoenix some kind of sweetheart deal, maybe even in a three way (no kinkiness intended) I do think this is a you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours kind of trade
CF
Howard in Chandler, AZ Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 10:15 am
Although obvious now, I never considered teams taking more jump shots against us, that should start a few fast breaks too…
Nice take, I’m glad you are here in Phoenix commenting on this team. Who do I need to talk to to get you a raise?
derek Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 10:29 am
The first time I heard about the trade, I know that the Suns made a very good move. Shaq doesn’t need to run, he will be the diesel powering the SUns much faster this time around. Although we would not see a Nash rebound and alley-oop pass to Marion in 1 second, but the benefits of having Shaq on the paint would really ease the burden on Amare and Nash. Besides, Did the critics ever thought that the Suns rely heavily on proper spacing, and talking about space, Shaq occupies large space in the middle which will allow the Suns to Spread it and open it with the shooters it has (Nash, Bell, Barbosa, Hill, Piatkowski)… I hope that Amare will use this opportunity to stop commiting useless fouls. If he can manage his fouls well, then they would be ok in the playoffs…
Mark (Phoenix) Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 10:30 am
Eddie,
Once again you nailed it on the head. My only concern is that Shaq be healthy in the next 2 years. I really beleive that we can get 2-3 rings in the next 3 years. A couple of key draft picks (the Atlanta Pick next year) and we can continue to fill holes as our team gets older. No one does a better job at the color analysis then you. You definitely do a great job of explaining common basketball idiology and the inside scoop on players. Keep it up. Go Suns!!!!
lander Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 10:51 am
will see, old man shaq can’t do the things he used to any more. that’s why pat let him go
bballer Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 10:56 am
eddie, you did it again. that was a great breakdown. when i first heard the trade i thought it was ridiculous. by the shaq press conference, i realized that the trade was great. shaq will be to stoudemire what haslem did for him. shaq will cover the big men, be the 2nd scoring option and be a large presence on defense. shaq can focus on rebounding and starting the fast break by giving great outlet passes to nash.
i also remembered that post jordan, aside from one year, either a duncan or shaq led team won it all. neither will win this year, but next year either one will be raising the larry o’brien trophy for the last time. after next year, the west will be led by utah, portland, the lakers and new orleans. the passing of the torch is in process. this trade, along with the pick up of grant hill will create the urgency needed for this team to win a championship for the 2 time mvp. without the trade, phx would lose to either lal, saspurs or even dallas. the loss to new orleans justified the trade. the losses to minny made the need for a trade apparent. losing once to minny is an exception, twice is a trend.
bear in mind eddie, most posters aren’t fans of basketball. they are fans of three point shooting, dunks and entertaining basketball. basketball fans appreciate those aspects plus solid defense, positional rebounding and the intricacies of the game. the intricacies appreciates the style played by detroit and san antonio and recognizes the beauty in those games. basketball is simple. dominant big, scoring wing, defensive big and win, pass first point guard, well rounded bench. phx just filled out the missing pieces.
David Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 11:49 am
C’mon Eddie…you agree with Rashidi and now you’re talking out of both sides of your face. You have always criticized the Spurs for being “old” — those old men did OK last year. Now you bring on Shaq — still a good player but old and far from dominant. Now you agree with Rashidi to bring in Gary Payton, who is 5 years away from Social Security, to play alongside Grant Hill, who btw I like bunches and wish THAT old man had decided to come to the Spurs. Better hope HE doesn’t get hurt!
Sean Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 11:49 am
Does anybody here really know what Shaq has left in the tank? NO! I don’t even think Shaq knows. We will have to wait and see. Maybe a follow article in a month Eddie. Until then, nobody knows how the trade will shake out. I will agree the Suns could not win a championship with their current squad so a change was needed. Is Shaq the answer? We will have to see… I think the recent trades just show how dominating and great Tim Duncan is! Everyone is looking for an answer to the “Big Fundamental”.
eddie Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 11:50 am
ERnie
how good would Bynum be this year without Kobe? How good would Z be without Lebron?
How good would Shaq be with the best passer in the game setting him up in Steve Nash?
thats why he struggled in Miami —-no passer—and this is the best point guard he has ever played with.
so i disagree.
eddie Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 11:54 am
tdawg
who said you were improved? none of those guys have playoff experience other than Fisher. including Bynum or Gasol.
Chris Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 11:57 am
This trade goes right along the lines of Ewing to the Sonics and Olajuwon to the Raptors. Shaq just has nothing left, and this article is wishful thinking.
sage Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 11:58 am
Phoenix………..watch out the closing door might hit you on your way out. You’re rotation is so thin, you are one injury away from the door….oops I forgot you added grandpa shaqy….he was brought only to play the lakers….he can rest the rest of the year! what desperation!
if he was 100% now and passed the physical, why not play the next game and why wait for feb 20 to play…who else…the lakers..hehehe
korver, webber, gasol, kwame played and marion, banks will play right away
Nationwide pool: 71% said it was a good trade for Pat Riley ONLY. Wow!
If I was a betting man, I would put some meat on this stat…these are good odds…considering all factors! Again Pat Riley is a HUSTLER!!
webber (younger, 33) on a fast team……….4 points, 1 assist! An obvious sign………you can’t put an old horse in a thoroughbred race!
Endurance is the key!!!! Mother nature is coming to get you…
Greatest probability for an injury…….shaq(35)-already injured, hill(35), nash(34) and stoudemire(25)..in that order.
Don’t disregard the obvious signs of wear and tear and medical history of these people….this team boasts of a great medical team(?)…they will be very busy indeed and they love to get poor medical risk players!
one injury away……i don’t wish it but just stating the obvious!!!!
phoenix oldies but goodies….PHOENIX RETRO-has been TEAM
Even Barkley last night at TNT who is not all that good said, ” that is why old people need Viagra!” Again you know what he meant!
THE SUN SETS IN THE WEST SOON!
sonnydelite Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 12:06 pm
That is what basketball is all about… Getting the basketball in the hoop and with style. It is an art that we like to see. That is why the people like to see the Suns play. Amare is the real cancer on the team. Should have traded him. Marion was fine until he came back from injury. He also got Joe Johnson lto leave too. I met Steve Nash 2 years ago in Tahiti and he is a class act, the real deal and a very nice guy. He deserves a lot of things but not a Shaq. Shaq is a fake.
Do you think the last few nba finals had good ratings?? No, because the Spurs are a boring team. Detriot another boring team. People make basketball to be such a smart sport. It looks complicated because most NBA players are so dumb. Shaq just knocks the average down even more. Do you know that most of the NBA players are uneducated with maybe a few years of college at most? Do you know that 60% of nba players go broke after they leave the nba? I love basketball and I would pay an NBA tax just to see some good entertainig games. If I want it to be boring I would go see it at the YMCA or play it myself. With all the money we are paying and yes we as fans are playing their salaries that they better have the ability to do all the things that normal fans like me can not do.
Marion, opt out of your contract and come to the Lakers. They appreciate people who hustle and do whatever it takes to win. I like your hustle even though you have an ugly shot. At times I would think that Marion is on Steriods because the energy he brings to the game. Why did you do it Suns why?? Just accept the spanking from the Lakers when the Bynomite comes back. I sent Shaq some WD40 so he can spray on his hip. Hope that helps!
eddie Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 12:12 pm
sage
how old are you? let me remind you 35 in the NBA is 26 in real life. If you don’t play the game you have no clue the type of shape these guys are in.
you should because at 34 Steve Nash exerts more energy than anyone in the league.
dont compare how you feel at your age to these world class athletes.
eddie Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 12:15 pm
sonnydelite
stick to guessing. you have no clue——–the Suns locker room was great. Shawn and Amare got along great. —–dag how would i know? sorry—-im only around them all the time. stop yapping and stick with the article.
geo Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 12:29 pm
Great article…Need bigs and role players to win championship, w/c they have… I salute Steve Kerr and D’Antoni for doing the right move..Shaq will show everyone that he can still dominate…
Frank Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 12:44 pm
Suddenly all the Suns’ fans have forgotten their nonstop criticisms of the Spurs for being too old, and are celebrating the arrival of a former all-star who will soon turn 36. Maybe you guys can pick up an Argentinian too! Eddie: “the Spurs have shown signs of wear and tear.” If anyone’s showing signs of wear and tear, it’s Shaq and his personal all time low scoring and rebounding averages. If the Spurs had made this trade, Eddie would have written an article talking about how the Spurs just got older and how Shaq isn’t nearly the force he used to be and that this desperation move marks the end of the era of San Antonio dominance.
I’ll say this for Steve Kerr: having played with Duncan, he realized that the no-interior-defense Suns would again not get past the Spurs in the playoffs, and that’s the reason this trade was made.
Jas- Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 12:56 pm
Everyone said Nash isn’t durable. So far, they were wrong. Everyone said Amare would never return from the microfracture, wrong again. Everyone said Grant Hill was finished, lets see, still wrong. Now Shaq is used up, broke down, old, slow….. Whatever. I’m pretty convinced the Suns trainers and med staff have a clue what they are doing.
Shaq Diesel Express in June!
Peter D. Rumm MD Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 1:17 pm
So the Spurs have never won back to back championships - big friggin deal, they are still by far the most complete and savy team in the W and can play any style.
They did not repeat in 2000 due only to loss of Duncan and had the sublime 0.4 shot by Fisher. They also had to face Shaq and Kobe together for several years and no one in West as strong as that combo when Shaq was truly Shaq.
Spurs per Burns of SI still the creme of crop in West and the gap may be greater than a lot of analysts think and next year have 13 million coming off cap and add a great defending big man in Tiago Splitter - better for their system than Gasol.
chievous Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
When Shaq came to the Heat he was still a dominant force but on the downside. To his ultimate credit, he created the Dwayne Wade “Flash” legend and, from the day he arrived, he deferred to Flash. While Wade showed promise in his early NBA career, the credit goes to Shaq for igniting the Flash! Personally, when he gushed over Wade’s ability, I thought he was just getting back at Kobe for their falling out, but Shaq knows a superstar when he sees one, and he called it first. Sadly but naturally, Shaq’s skills have eroded and he no longer can dominate. Unfortunately, the Diesel’s descent happened too fast and on the same team that regarded him as a superstar. In short, he could not adjust his game to his drop in ability. He was a ball hog on offense, but his assist to turnover ratio was horrible. Other than dunks and layups, Shaq can’t shoot. We know about his free throw woes. All this doesn’t matter, if Shaq can leave his ego in Miami and Los Angeles and simply play some “D”! That was the most disappointing thing about Shaq in Miami: he wouldn’t play “D”! Yeah he would have his stretches here or there and in the playoff ’s a little, but overall he became a defensive liability. If he can reinvent and rejuvenate himself and play some defense (which he is still capable of doing) then the Suns are a winner in this trade and a championship is withing reach. If he comes to the Suns only wanting to hog the ball on offense and not play “D”, it is a bad trade.
Brandon Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 2:50 pm
It’s amazing to me how many basketball fans don’t actually know basketball. It’s like listening to vegetarians argue about the best steakhouses.
If teams go small against the Suns, it’ll still be in our favor, even without Marion. our small game works because we have great skill players. Yes, Marion was one, but he was only ONE. Go small — I’ll still take the combo of Nash, Barbosa, Bell, Diaw, and STAT over any other team’s small lineup. And I HATE Boris Diaw, so for me to say that is extreme.
And losing a perimeter defender in Marion doesn’t hurt as much as adding perimeter girth in Shaquille HELPS. And for that whole “won’t be able to run” thing — I think Mike D summed it up best. First people said we can’t win by running, now we add Shaq and we can’t win this way, either. Which is it? They say the Suns need to be able to slow it down and now we can. And if anything, look out for a fresher Nash in the 4th. And getting abused while Nash is on the bench? There goes that idea again.
Shaq may or may not be better than 14 and 8. I tend to think he is, but if someone else doesn’t I understand. But that 14 and 8 with intimidation and eating up space is all we need. Anything more than that us a bonus.
I want to know who Tim Duncan is going to guard — he’s always hated matching up with Shaq (who is as much as reason for Tim being a PF and not a center as David Robinson) and Amare can get him into foul trouble as easily as he does it to Amare.
And now Amare has the big man coach he’s been needing. Look for his back-to-the-basket game to be much better this time next season.
And Eddie, blocks shots ARE an overrated stat. The best shotblockers CHANGE way more shots than they block. It’s like the best corners in football are the ones who don’t get thrown at — not the one with 12ints. That guy is getting picked on.
HoopsMcCann Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
Great article Eddie!
Especially the part about Shaq not slowing down the break but actually speeding it up.
2 of your posters also made great points nobody seems to be taking into account.
One, that 8 of the last nine trophys were won by the teams that had either Shaq or Duncan. And amazingly, it should be nine in a row if Kobe hadn’t gone missing in action against Detroit in 2004!
Two, paying Shaq 20 mil is nothing compared to Marion’s 17 because Shaq brings so much more entertainment value and extra money to the Suns and the NBA via TV ratings, etc., MANY more times than Marion can. He EARNS his salary.
And I will add that the Suns had no choice. I’m a Laker fan and I believe the Suns were going nowhere in the playoffs with their existing team. All the teams in the West have improved over the past year. I hope Shaq proves all the naysayers wrong AGAIN!
frank Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 3:32 pm
nice article eddie. don’t wholeheartedly agree with you but a nice one nonetheless.
i’m still gonna hold judgment on shaq’s arrival to the suns. my problem is that, not only you, but everyone seems to be comparing shaq to kareem in the latter stages of their careers. kareem was a finesse center, who never banged like shaq did and he lasted 19(fact check?) years in the league due to that. so we don’t really know how healthy shaq is, in the middle of his 15th(?) year. all that banging puts a toll on a guy his size. but then again, he is shaq… so we’ll just have to wait and see.
and for everyone saying the suns got worst for making this deal…
NO TEAM CAN WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP WITHOUT A DOMINATING PRESENCE IN THE POST.
the spurs had duncan and robinson. the lakers and heat had shaq. the pistons had the wallace boys. the rockets had hakeem.
of the previous championships won in the last 15 years, only mj and the bulls are the exception to that rule.
and i would take mj, scottie and rodman/grant over marion, nash, and amare any day of the week… and twice on sundays.
Frank Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 3:33 pm
Eddie– Your blanket statement that 35 in the NBA is 26 in real life is ridiculous. Each case is different and obviously a 35 year old NBAer who has gone through years of wear and tear and possibly some knee surgeries is most definitely not the same as a typical 26 year old in decent condition. Jonathan Bender retired at age 25 because his knees were so bad and caused him nonstop pain every time he tried to play.
frank Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 3:43 pm
another thing…
of the TRUE centers in the league right now, he’s still a top 3 center, and i would still only take yao and dwight howard over shaq. and if we’re going with just low post players, he’s still top 10.
1. kg
2. duncan
3. howard
4. yao
5. amare
6. bosh
7. boozer
8. gasol
9. shaq
10. bynum
George Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 3:43 pm
I love the nay sayers. “Fantasy” game players need to get their head out of where the sun doesn’t shine and watch some bball games. I clearly remember two years ago when in the finals Shaq Daddy was averaging like 9 and 7 or something and despite everything that D Wade did and the Finals MVP, everyone on the Dallas team kept talking about the Daddy and how that was all they were concerned about and how he made the difference etc. Shaq has always made people better at any age. And if you look the last 10 years or so the veteran teams have won. The Spurs, the Heat, the Pistons, the Bulls, even the Lakers had a bunch of old geezers like Rice and Harper and Grant and Horry. You need some youth but in the end, come play off time, the game is slow, it comes down to execution and while some athleticism is great, experience is paramount. Mind you the Suns still have Amare and Barbosa who are as athletic as they come in their top 6 player rotation, so they are not exactly that old. Then you add Diaw who is 25-26 himself and you have a good mixture of youth and experience. They have one more big buddy in Skinner who is serviceable back up and another great 3-point shooter on the bench to boot. I wonder if the Daddy wins another ring for yet another Franchise if people will finally appreciate him more.
Laker Ted Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 4:14 pm
Wait til the Suns figure out that Shaq is foul prone and that they can’t use this “force” in the middle during the last 5 minutes of the games cause he can’t shoot free throws.
Jojo Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 4:52 pm
at first i thought this trade suck for the suns tooo
for me it was a wild bet with the age of shaq,nash,hill,
then i read this article
Really great Article
K.M.E Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 5:10 pm
This article is awesome. I think Shaq doesn’t match with the suns. He is slow and the suns are fast. Shaq has to work hard to fit in with this team.
Reg G Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 5:21 pm
Only a Suns’ fan could come up with the “criticism” that the Spurs haven’t won back to back titles. Talk about desperately trying to manipulate the facts! The Spurs have won 4 titles in 9 years, more than any other team during that period. They’ve won 3 of the last five, meaning that over a half decade period, they’ve won 60% of the nba championships. If the Spurs are old and declining and don’t have the fortitude it takes to win back to back, then it would seem that destiny is telling us that they don’t have a shot this year. And yet the Suns, with the best record in the West, still make this deal! Why did they do this? It’s simple: fear of the Spurs.
Another fact that can’t be fudged: Four (the number of Spur titles) is better than zero (the number of Sun titles).
Surya Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 6:44 pm
Riley didn’t really “mess up” the Heat, it was their owner who signed off on Shaq’s contract but conveniently decided that he didn’t want to pay for a competitive team to avoid the luxury tax. If you have Shaq and Wade’s contract eating up your cap, I don’t see how blaming Riley for this makes any sense if he is not allowed to offer good contracts to good players. If anything, he deserves an award for getting rid of Antoine Walker and Shaq’s contract to afford the Heat the chance to rebuild quickly. As a Heat fan, I have seen the reality of Shaq’s game right now and I hate to break it to you but the Lakers are still the team to beat. It’s not going to work out as perfectly as Eddie describes it. It might work in a video game simulation but this ain’t NBA Live. Shaq can’t jump or stay healthy. That’s the reality.
eddie Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 8:15 pm
Frank
good job –way to use one example—-Bender just had bad knees—- how are you using someone that never played a bad season—-so silly
Nashty Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 8:25 pm
frank. here are some better players than shaq in his current state and arguablby when hes healthy.
*Kaman. Quicker post moves. More rebounds, blocks & points. Just looks like freddy krugar
*Camby (should have made all star) 14rb 4 blocks 9.8pts. Still can run the floor and better athlete. Better defender by far not a post up player though. good passer.
*tyson chandler. Relentless on the boards, decent defender & far better athlete. Lil skinny
*jermaine oneal - despite the poor health he still vetter than oneal. Hes only 29 and can still move unlike shaq. better defender, rteounder & scorer.
People think just causes his fat ass will clog up the lane its a good thing. Guys will take rebounds over him & he will clog up lane for nash. Sure hes decent passer but hes playing diff system now. its not the triangle. Im sure he thinks hes can still run, but foer how long?
eddie Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 8:35 pm
Nashty
why are you being so personal? it’s ok calm down. sounds like you are angry——-oh must be a Laker or Spur fan. —now we understand.
George Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 8:57 pm
Nashty, just out of curiosity, since you are so good with stats, do you know how many rings these players that are “arguably better” have?
Nashty Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 9:03 pm
actually im raging suns fan. My favourite player of all time is steve nash. I love the suns. I just dont know about this trade. I know the suns ,medical/training team is best in league. Grant hill & nash examples of this & rajas injury in playoffs couple years ago. As much as i hated shawns attitude he did a lot for them. Ive actually got playoff tickets reserved for playoffs this year, Im an aussie. Shaq is a lazy rebounder. im just concerned cause i want them to get title so bad especially for steve nash.
George Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 9:04 pm
…P.S. Better yet. Tell me how many players that played with the above “arguably better” guys came in as journeymen and left with fat contracts as “solid” role players? I can give you the long list of players that Shaq made better, but then you are good with stats and should know better.
Nashty Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 9:40 pm
your a tool. derr shit he has got 4 rings and experience. He WAS a great player back then and i have much respect for him and one of the greatest of all time. hes 35 years old. He gets his shit blocked all the time now and can barely move. I think he will improve in Phoenix but not the way people think. stop living in the past. your all dellusional. Id love to be optimistic but im being real about this. EDDIE by the way i hate the spurs. Duncan cause of his boring play, whining and eyes bulging out of his headf every call. Bruce bown for being the dirtiest player in the league & ginobli for his flopping and that ridiculous bald spot. maybe he should get some tips from pop on how do do a comb over. also dislike kobe to the extreme. he acts like a spoilt child.
Nashty Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 9:45 pm
lets get bull russell out there. hes won 11 rings.
Nashty Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 9:46 pm
bill^
Nashty Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 9:50 pm
also how many minutes are you people thinking shaq can play???? Also late in games are you wary oif the hack a shaq. The hack a shaq used to be not a big deal cause of his production but now it really makes him a liability.
Nikkiboy Said,
February 8, 2008 @ 11:32 pm
Suns acquiring Shaq is a disaster for the league. Imagine teams trying to outrun the Suns to prevent fastbreaks and if successful, face Shaq and Amare in the block, scary. Shaq don’t have to run, anyway. Besides the loss of marion is ok for there are still Diaw and Hill. Taking away nothing from Marion, he disappears from in the playoffs specially against SAn Antonio. Diaw,given playing time, is a clutch and consistent playoff player.
Reg G Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 12:01 am
George:
Please stop referring to Shaq as “the daddy.” That’s really weird.
Michael Bennett Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 12:11 am
Eddie — You might want to give Shaq your shooting video; leave it at his locker as a joke and say “For free throw… Welcome to the Suns, big brother”.
In all seriousness, you should really try and capitalize on this move. For the rest of the season, the national basketball cameras will be in Phoenix. You should ask Barkley for a favor — have him talk to TNT, and for everyone’s sake, try and REPLACE REGGIE MILLER ON THE BROADCAST!!! Use this as an opportunity to move up and work for the best broadcast in Sports since NBA on NBC (thank you John Tesh for the best sport’s music ever).
M.A. Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 12:26 am
The last 4 seasons of Hakeem Olajuwon’s career:
18.9 ppg/ 9.6 rpg (15th season in league)
10.3 ppg/ 6.2 rpg (16th)
11.9 ppg/ 7.4 rpg (17th)
7.1 ppg/ 6.0 rpg (18th)
Last 4 seasons for David Robinson:
17.8 ppg/ 9.6 rpg (11th season in league)
14.4 ppg/ 8.6 rpg (12th)
12.2 ppg/ 8.3 rpg (13th)
8.5 ppg/ 7.9 rpg (14th)
Last 4 seasons for Shaq:
22.9 ppg/ 10.4 rpg (13th season in league)
20 ppg / 9.2 rpg (14th)
17.3 ppg/ 7.4 rpg (15th)
14.2 ppg/ 7.8 rpg (16th season– this year so far)
David Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 2:26 am
The Suns bet the house on Shaq’s health. It may work, but it proves Kerr messed up this summer by not trading amare for KG.
Melissa Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 4:02 am
That trade will backfire because:
1) Shaq may be the biggest factor but he’s still not the only factor. It’s still up to Nash and Stoudemire to step up their game and deliver like some of the true greats have, so if Shaq doesn’t resemble the Shaq of yesteryear, even more pressure will be on and even more will be required of Nash and Stoudemire.
2) He will be injured most of the time, making them worse off than not having Marion. Even if he plays, he’s no longer a player who could play heavy minutes, as someone said.
3) They’re a team that has to have home court advantage in every round to even make it to the finals (can they win enough games before he actually starts playing for them?). The only round that will be easy for them will be the first, especially if all teams are healthy by then because people are counting out the Spurs way too early.
4) They thrive off fast breaks but that will wear him out by first quarter’s end. Furthermore, they won’t even get to play an uptempo game in the playoffs making them worse and thanks to the defensive 3 second rule, he can’t park himself in the paint. Also, analysts greatly overestimate the need for teams to double team him.
5) The trade deadline hasn’t passed yet. San Antonio or Dallas could still make a similar trade to play spoiler in the playoffs. Without any further trades, there are already 6 teams (4 in the west) with a legitimate chance of beating them, as pointed out in your article.
M.A. Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 4:33 am
David– They bet the house on his health, but also on their own image of what Shaq has been in the past. I’ve always liked Shaq a lot, and have nothing bad at all to say about him, but time catches up with every player eventually. His numbers have declined for four consecutive seasons, and it’s been my experience that when that happens it almost never reverses itself. I thought the same about Ben Wallace.
jeff Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 4:39 am
i think the suns will still lose to either the mavs or the lakers.
shaq will change the style of the phoenix suns, they will become slow, and the suns is not a good defensive team, you take out marion, who is probably the best defensive player on that team, they will definitely go down.
Sabo Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 6:02 am
Honestly, I think shawn Marion was a bigger threat for the suns than Shaq will be.
Marion was younger, rebounded extremely well, ran the floor, and could do a little bit of everything.
You can’t blame Pat Riley for Shaqs failure the last two years, because he isn’t even close to the player he was when he played for the magic and lakers.
I’ve watched Shaq a lot during th eyears, and of course he’s much older, and therefore not so smooth, quick etc.
And look at his rebounding stats nowadays, almost the same as Shawn, but we’ll see.
I just don’t think the trade will improve the suns.
djhott Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 6:12 am
marion to portland
for g-.jack,t.outlaw,j.prizbilla-d.miles
miami goes
g-jack g-m.banks
g-wade g-d.cook
f-outlaw f-d.wright
f-haslem f-d.miles
c-prizbilla c-m.blount
then they draft mike beasley at the 4/3
portland09
g-blake g-rodriguez
g-b.roy g-t.green
f-marion f-m.webster
f-aldrige f c-frye
c-oden c-j.mcroberts
with the 13pick the trailblazers draft-chase budinger
son
djhott Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 10:26 am
who really though webber could still do anything?
if that was the case for a minimum contract he would have been signed with a team before GS
djhott Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 10:26 am
who really though webber could still do anything?
if that was the case for a minimum contract he would have been signed with a team before GS
eddie Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 10:27 am
who really though webber could still do anything?
if that was the case for a minimum contract he would have been signed with a team before GS
javaman Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 10:57 am
bravo! spoken like a true house man. imagine this! shaq undulates in no mans land trying to defend a pick & roll and repeatedly fails to return to cover his man slipping into the basket. sounds familiar? how about the sight of the most dominant manatee ever sitting at the end of the bench while the game is being decided by a freethrow.
bballer Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 11:14 am
So if any of you guys played basketball, you would know that the presence of a big man usually alters your shot whether he blocks you or not. a big man like shaq is an intimidating force. you remember the ferrari and the brick wall comment shaq used with kobe?! that is his affect. amare is a great weak side shot blocker. this will allow him to roam a lot more on defense. shaq in the low blocks on offense is a force to be reckoned with. he is hard to move away from his sweet spot. so here is the dilemma. do you double team him and allow the great phx shooters get open shots. or do you allow single coverage and allow shaq to go off for 40 +. pick your poison. listen, i’m a spurs fan. they are by far my favourite team since duncan entered the league. even i can admit the impact shaq will make.
as for entertaining basketball. the problem is, it creates false hope. entertaining may be good for ratings, but it doesn’t win championships. just as the high scoring patriots. the giants defense stopped them and then what - one of the biggest upsets in sport history. in all team sports, defense wins championships. offense just entertains.
Grigoris Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
Hello from Greece,
The west is so tough this year and the playoffs matchups so hard, that it might take 12 matches for the Suns to reach the Conference finals.
And my question is, are we sure that Shaq will be durable enough to make an impact then??
PS. We always remember your days as a player here, especially now that Olympiakos is struggling.
Mo 8 for ever!
Petro Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Sage said:
“Nationwide pool: 71% said it was a good trade for Pat Riley ONLY. Wow!
If I was a betting man, I would put some meat on this stat…these are good odds…considering all factors!”
It you are a betting man then look at Vegas not some ragtag group of no nothings that have access to a computer. What is Vegas saying about the Suns now?
KOLY TENGUELA Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 5:49 pm
I don’t care about what hype, polls or vegas said for determining team’s chances to win a title.I watch basketball games and try to be as objective than possible using the five criterias that i talk about before ( or at least 4 of them since no one know for luck). Since 1995, i can remember only two teams that have won an nba title after making a big midseason trade: the rockets when they acquire Drexler and the pistons with R.Wallace. Let’s examine why those teams succeed:
-Houston Rockets
After Jordan’s first retirement, the title was up for grabs and no player was more dominant than olajuwon who destroyed everyone during two consecutive playoffs run. Drexler add his talent and experience but i believe that Hakeem was so great during that time that even without the glide, he would have lead his team to the title.In those two seasons, he schooled any and every nba center ( Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, you could go on and on). No player in today’s nba is as dominant than Hakeem was at that time (Lebron is not far but he’s not there yet, his time will come).
-Detroit Pistons
The pistons make two conference finals before Joe D. fleeced Billy Knight and got Wallace. For this experienced, solid, disciplined squad, sheed was the perfect complement giving the team the talent she needed for getting over the hump. The result: a big upset against the lakers who destroyed themselves cause of chemistry problems.
The actual suns and lakers don’t have that guy who can dominate eveyone like Hakeem was doing neither than the solidity and defensive intensity of the pistons.
Once again look at those teams objectively and you will see that they are no better than mavs and spurs but i like the shaq trade because it gave the suns more experience and defense for playoffs time ( granted shaq’s healthy) if they face again the big boring and i like the gasol trade for the lakers because with the run they will make in this year’s playoff (experience) and bynum’s improvement, they will be the favorites in the west for next year. This year is just not yet the time even if the hype seemingly push everyoneto think otherwise. Can’t wait for the playoffs.
Non Eddie Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 6:37 pm
>Proof lays
“lie” and “lay” are different words
javaman Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 7:56 pm
what if you’re not a gambler and just a baketball enthusiast? then you come here and have some fun talking about it with rest of us no nothing figures who have access to computer. why is it that the “FAT CAT” too hurt to play the riley SLOWDRAG but healthy enough to play the RUN & GUN di antoni style? something is wrong with this picture… first orlando,then l.a.,miami, the latest is phoenix. hmmm! what is next? the clippers? by the way, there is always an explanation for his departure but it’s never his fault.
eddie Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 8:17 pm
Alert
we have a person on here using my name. don’t pay attention to the last Eddie as me.
EJ
Surya Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 10:01 pm
bballer,
Are you for real? Put down that pipe, buddy. Shaq is not going for 40+ in ANY game! You apparently haven’t seen Shaq play in 4 or 5 years. You also haven’t seen any Heat games this year. A lot of teams were going single coverage on Shaq and he didn’t torture them for 40+. Not by a long shot. Which reminds me, he can’t jump so it kind of makes it hard for him to shoot anymore. It also means his shots get blocked too.
I know you badly want the Suns to win, EJ, but Shaq isn’t the answer. Maybe 4 years ago when the Heat got him but now it’s too late. Hell, you might as well have traded for Ben Wallace if you needed some rebounds and blocked shots. At least he might have been a pleasant surprise instead of this fantasy that Shaq will be dominant.
javaman Said,
February 9, 2008 @ 11:12 pm
who is going to be the PHOENIX SUNS all time king of buffet dinner tournament - OLIVER MILLER, BARKLEY, O’NEAL, or the rapidly rising in weight future star BORIS DIAW?
rich Said,
February 10, 2008 @ 2:51 am
Hey Eddie,
Nice article man. Also, please let me say that I am one of your fans especially when you played with Houston, remember the last shot/buzzer beater against the Jazz? That was awesome!
Anyway, maybe you can let MARC STIEN of ESPN read your article so he can just stop what he has been doing the past few years - to discredit Shaq and again be humiliated by his performance, he was one who said Miami will never win against Dallas, but he was humiliated again! but again great article because you are always subjective and keep up the good work. Maybe you can email me next time thanks man.
Melissa Said,
February 10, 2008 @ 3:44 am
Shaq won’t score 30 let alone 40 and that’s if he’s even healthy to play. No one will need to double team him except maybe Chris Webber.
Reno Said,
February 10, 2008 @ 4:11 am
Still referring to Shaq as “The most dominant player…” In which category is Shaq dominating, I wonder? The only one that comes to mind is … resting. Last season, you can probably get a good game out of Shaq in every 10 games; this season, your odds of getting a good game out of him is more like 1 in 20.
I want this to work, but looking forward to next season, a healthy Shaq will probably be a 10/5 guy at best, and to get his 10/5 he’ll end up giving up 20/10 to opposing centers. And he still can’t shoot freethrows and remain a liability in close games. If he stays healthy all year, he’ll have two really good games. And that’s a maybe.
So this trade has to work now and get the Suns to the Promised Land. Sure, the Suns could get dazzlingly lucky and get out of the West, and then … Nah!
nikkiboy Said,
February 10, 2008 @ 5:27 am
shaq can score 40+ points given if he has a powerful team. why? simple. in Miami this season his only wade is a threat. In the suns, if pick and roll (shaq and nash) and every post up by amare or shaq then the opponent chose to single cover (to avoid the threes from raja and barbosa and nash and the slash by diaw or amare or hill) shaq he will have a big big night.
y do we always count shaq out? he may not be dominant as he was before but if you put him in an atmosphere like phoenix where everybody is a constant threat…well good luck to the world.
sunsrthebest Said,
February 10, 2008 @ 9:34 am
Good article, Eddie. This is a roll of the dice for sure (Marion brings so much to the table), but I would have done the same. Two points to add:
1) The Suns medical staff enjoys a sterling reputation around the league. Kerr and D’Antoni both mentioned this, and Antonio McDyess has too, referring to when he played here. The fact that Nash is not declining at age 34 says a lot, not only about his work ethic, but about the training staff. The staff expressed confidence that they would be able to whip Shaq into shape and help him avoid injuries.
2) While Shaq has undisputably declined as a player, very few people grab rebounds over him or block his shot, as some of the comments above suggest. He is not even playing 30 minutes a game this year, and he is still putting up solid numbers. If he were washed up, one would expect his field goal percentage to drop significantly, but it’s a sparkling 58%. Plus, he will not get doubled on the Suns half as much, because there is no one to double off of.
The one concern I have is Dallas. Marion does a geat job on Dirk. But the threat of getting pounded by the Lakers, Spurs, and the Jazz makes this trade worth it.
Surya Said,
February 10, 2008 @ 10:56 am
No, he won’t score 40+…never again.
It’s simply impossible for him to sustain that kind of production for an entire game. This isn’t even counting the fact that he is always in foul trouble. Stop dreaming and wake up!
nikkiboy Said,
February 10, 2008 @ 9:45 pm
I said he “can” not he “will”. I am talking about his capability to score and the threat around him making him “capable” of scoring 40. Why are you hating on Shaq people when in this decade he had 4 championships beside it was not just his ability that was needed by Suns, his experience and the motivation factor and the likes.
Larvi Jerrick Said,
February 10, 2008 @ 11:39 pm
Fantastic stuff! I think the insight in this article is phenomenal. You’re probably one of the few experts who see it the way Suns GM Steve Kerr does. When I saw the words “Improve the running game”, I thought, Eddie must be kidding. But I like the arguments. The only stumbling block is whether or not Shaq will actually settle for making those long outlet passes, because they essentially mean he’ll get lesser touches. But if he really is serious about winning that fifth title, then that shouldn’t be a problem, should it?
-LJB
Brad Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 12:41 am
Good article. Proof of the pudding that you are right. Shaq’s shooting percentage was not down this year. His minues and thus stats were, but shooting percentage was the same as usual. He still drew the double team.
chantana Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 12:52 am
this was a great trade for the suns, u got shaq holding down the paint and a monster on both ends in amare…BUT they’re still not the team to beat. Shaq lost a few steps in his game with all the injuries comin into the season, u can just tell by how many times hes fouled out in games. In the west u got teams like the Mavs, Lakers, San Antonio, and even Denver who can match up to shaq and STAT with their big men. The match up to watch for is with the Lakers, how can ppl doubt Pau Gasol makes them better?? Just listen to this..who’s gonna guard lamar odom when shaq and STAT are busy with Bynum and Gasol?? im sure grant hill can shut down Odom..NOT!! and i dont even have to mention who raja bell’s guarding. STOP HATIN ON THEM LAKERS!!
et Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 1:03 am
the shaq in phoenix will work,
phoenix has never been able to defeat tim duncan down low
and this season they are 1-2 against the lakers
the only reason they were able to beat the lakers is beacuse of bynums absence. this trade will work because shaq brings them post presence even thought he won’t be able to play big minutes he will bring half court offense to the suns
able to slow things down when the suns take a big lead. and the suns don’t particularly have a scorer in there team like shaq had in miami with wade. so there will be more ball movement and with shaq i mean is there anyone as big as he is in the nba. yeah he’s old but he still can play he just dosnt have the freedom to do that in miami i mean when they play thier are like. wright haslem wade williams. only williams is the most potent option outside. in phoenix he will dominate the paint because they have great three point shooters. i mean really is there anyone in the leauge who can stop shaq 1 on 1 common thats absurd.
MarioLeo Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 2:34 am
Yes,
It was very good post.
I was one of the guys that got scared with this trade. I really can start to think that it could work.
But I still have to ashly see it working. Shaq still has to be healthy, And has to adapte himself to the fast brake.
Just remember when Pat ewing went to the fast brake of sonics?
It was a mess, he was always late on the court…
I hope this doesn’t happen with shaq….
RL8136 Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 3:14 am
Nikkiboy, pick and roll with Shaq n Nash? Last I checked the suns ran a set of high pick n rolls, which turned into pick n POPS, unless Amare was dashing to the hoop. With that being Shaq can’t shoot, more so cut to the rim at a fast pace w/o picking up a charge, so in reality, there isn’t no such thing as a pick and roll involving Shaq n Nash. What were you thinking?
CFatz Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 9:06 am
Has it come to this? Are people so desperate to have their post read that they are forging the blogmasters signature?
C’mon guys it’s only a game, but let’s respect the game.
Oh yes I think Portland is coming out of the west (if Oden can recuperate in time for the playoffs)
Adrian Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 2:41 pm
Eddie I must say I have followed you for years and I enjoy your blog. I don’t agree with you sometimes but you are so on-point with your statements about this trade you are making me shake in my chair. No offense to the THE MATRIX this guy was a real stat stuffer and he helped the SUNS do their thing but let me start by saying this. Shaq has never had the caliber perimeter players that he has right now. In Orlando he has 3-D, Penny, Nick and B-Shaw. The only triple threat out of that bunch was Little Penny. For those of you reading that doesnt know what a triple threat is, that’s a guy with the ability to shoot, pass or drive on any given possesion. In LA he only had KOBE and in Miami he only had Wade and during that Championship run, don’t laugh but Antoine Walker was instrumental in that area because he was able to pass the ball into Shaq, shoot the 3 or drive….That’s what actually took Miami over the top along with Dwayne Wade heroics. With the SUNS he has Barbosa, Nash, Grant Hill, Diaw, Raja Bell. Now if you look at each one of these guys they can penetrate and kick. These guys are great passers and why would one think they would have an issue with making a simple entry pass to Shaq? When Nash penetrates off the pick and roll with Amare how can someone come help with Shaq taking up space underneath? Will they leave Shaq? At 14ppg how many Centers are giving you that production? Andres Biendris is up I hear for a 10 mil plus extension with Golden St and he’s giving you 9ppg and 10rpgs and 45% free throw shooting. Eddie has it right the SUNS made a great move, simply because when the games slow down they have options and lets not forget Shaq is unselfish and a deft passer. D-WADE will see now that she shouldn’t believe the hype, it will be much tougher to get those 25pts. Pat Riley/Micky Arison are the real culprits here because they were thinking $$$$ and cents. This summer they should have re-signed Kapono and Posey and used their mid-level on a player and made a trade with the expiring contracts they had to re-shape that team for the future. Instead they rolled the dice and came up craps. Jerry Buss did something similar in LA by not using the mid-level to add talent to the roster and standing pat. The Suns are as Mulit-dimensional as I have ever seen. A 36 year-old Shaq will still demand attention, with the internet age and so much available to you for those of you who doubt what I say. Download a few games this year of Shaq when he scored 15-20pts and look at why that happened. Also look at the games when he didnt and it was just because of foul trouble. He would go 4-5 times up the court and not get a touch. He was essentially phased out of the offense. When they fed it to him when he had good position he succeeded at a pretty good rate. Is it hard to imagine Shaq giving you 16ppg 8rpg 60% fg with the SUNS. I tell you what I am putting Dallas and Spurs on notice. With Pau and Shaq with contenders they are my favorites barring injury. DID you guys see Gasols court awarness & saavy? Shaq has it like that plus he can still throw one down on someones neck. I simply can’t wait. Either Shaq is going to have several 20pt games or Bell, Hill, Nash are going to set a record from behind the ARC.
surya Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 2:46 pm
wow, thanks for the news flash that shaq is “capable” of scoring 40+. I think anyone good enough to play in the NBA is capable. I am a Miami fan so i will always appreciate what he did for our franchise. But I’m also a realist so I was ecstatic we got Marion. I think everyone, including EJ, is underestimating how much they will miss Marion’s game. Makes sense, they didnt appreciate him before either.
MrGQ Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 2:49 pm
Good Article.
Maybe the SUNS can pull this off. Nash always has the ability to make normal players look like all stars. The only problem is can Shaq finish off of Nash’s assists?? He might have the energy and motivation for a few games but I am sure all that will wear off. Shaq does not have the work ethic or motivation. He is all about the money as stated. Besides, Shaq only shows up during the playoffs. He has surgery on company time and misses games during the regular season. Shaq has a bad hip. Nash has a bad back. Hill has bad ankles. Amre has a bad knee. Bell and Diaw are lovers. I like Steve Nash and if he can get Shaq to be better he should definitely be MVP again this year.
Thanks Eddie for a well thought out article.
George Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
Reg G,
The Daddy, The Big Fella, The Diesel, Superman, Shaqzilla…. Shaq’s been called all these. I use the one that best fits the flow of the sentence. Nothing weird goign on, other than I apreciate what he brings to the game and how scary good he actualy is.
Nashty, Shaq is 35 years young. And no I will not bring up Bill Russell because he is retired. Also Shaq won a ring less than 2 years ago when he was 33 and everyone thought he was slowing down. People think that because of the crappy system that Pat Riley put him in this year and the things Riley asked of him (cehck an earlier article by EJ) brought down his stats, he is far from where he was. Let me remind you that last year when Flash went out, the Heat went on a tear with Shaqzilla puttring up tremendous numbers. I know a year makes a big difference but usually when you turn 40, not 34. When you build a team around Shaq with a couple of shooters ala Kapono, a good weak side rebounder like Haslem, and a penetrate and dish PG, you win. The Suns have a lot more of these plus a slasher to boot. If they run their offense through Shaq and play Nash off-the-ball more they will win a title. And Shaq does require a lot of attention because he takes so much space on the floor and because if he does not get double teamed and his teammates give him the ball enough, he will get 30 on you, and more importantly he will put your entire front line in foul trouble while doing it, which will in turn open up the lane and allow the rest of your teammates to penetrate and shoot free throws when they get fouled for large chunks of time in each quarter. Last but not least, people underestimate how intelligent Shaq actually is and how unselfish Nash is. Nash will feed Shaq in the post a lot more than that Miami, stat padding team did or D Wade did last year.
lilman Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 5:04 pm
the suns need shaq cause there main problem is offensive rebounding.
nikkiboy Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 7:39 pm
can collins/swift/biedrins score 40 in an NBA game? no. not all can. not all would. phoenix will miss marion but i think they are better of without him and having shaq on the team. my opinion.
LBJ Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 8:24 pm
I think in a Laker matchup you have to figure you’ll see Boris mathing up with Odom and maybe Hill from time to time. But it will be a good matchup. Marion always had trouble with Odom. But when Odom is on his game he like many other NBA players can give anyone trouble. He’s 6ft 10 and left handed, and can do a lot of things well.
But for those that have not really had a chance to watch Marion much think about his game offensively. Marion is a great third or fourth option because he can “score without the ball” and with out plays being called for him. He can be disruptive in the passing lanes, blocked shots and ignite the fast break. But with Shaq he’s going to help the Suns get into the penalty more often. His 15 points will be more of a problem for opponents than say Marion scoring 20 would be. Most of the time Shawn scores it’s without much resistance. He’s in the open floor or sneaking in for a quick put back. The Suns spread teams out with good outside shooters. Marion is not the type to try to dunk in a guys face or drive and draw a foul. He’s a good FT shooter but he hardly goes to the line. Because he’s not a good ball handler. He’s a finisher. His game is not a one on one game. That’s why he’s never gotten the pub he’s wanted. He’s not a guy with crossover moves or dunking over everyone’s center. He’ll block his shot but he kind of stays awayt from the high risk stuff. He’s always played with guys who could and would find him. Marbury’s assist numbers where good when he was here in Phx. Kidd’s are always high and the same for Nash. Wade and Ricky Davis don’t play that way. They like to create there own shots by dribbling and shooting out of isolations. Marion is good in a spread open type offense with good continuity.
dj hott Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 9:03 pm
lamar odom doesnt shoot over 12 shots ever
bynum and gasol are a nice 4/5 kobe, and a 610 versitale unselfish lefty who cna time n and out get u 10 rebs, is great, with the best player kobe, and clutch veteran fisher&young farmar-
shaq indeed has to bring his a game, and I believe he will find away
but the lakers are looking great, and marion will be missed but shaq will be loved
Surya Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 9:07 pm
nikkiboy,
Sure they could. If the offense focused on one given player then I don’t see why they couldn’t score at least 30 or more points. Okay, maybe not Ben Wallace or a couple of other guys. The bigger issue is that Shaq USED to be capable of that and with a charming press conference and his big smile he’s able to convince the majority of fans and media that Miami was the reason for his decline and not his body. The absurdity of the Suns brass claiming they got Shaq for his defense and his rebounding also points to the fact that even THEY don’t really believe he can score like that anymore. You want an aging center who can still rebound and defend and commands a ridiculous salary? Go for Ben Wallace then. Hell, I think David Robinson is probably more fit to play than Shaq.
dj hott Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 10:01 pm
surya why u hatin on shaq?
he put up 15pts 8rebs this season hurt, going through divorce,and with no pointguard or bigman scorer to relieve double teams,
in phoenix he moves, has nash and amare, likes dantonio,perfect combination,
and um phoenix was going to get ben wallace, but not for marion
it was a boris diaw marcus banks for ben wallace
but they got get of marion instead
shaq is 7′1 325, he is going to alter shots,
hes going to give nash easy assist, he better
shaq may get roger clemens ex trainers number and pump up some more, ha ha
BritAnn Said,
February 11, 2008 @ 11:57 pm
Yeah this article sounds good, reads good but I want to see it done and I think the total opposite of this article and yes I give the Suns some love for trying but I think this trade makes them worst…WHY?? well offense ain’t everything it’s the defense that will count for the Suns and the most part that the Suns will have to pay alot of attention to…WHY?? because I wouldn’t even run a halfcourt offensive when Shaq is in the game I would play small ball and run all day Phonix style while Shaq is in the game and if I was to fall into a half court game I would pick and roll all night with Shaq and make their team fouls go up and ultimately run Shaq off the court and now what you would be left with is a Marion-less Suns with no defense and Teams should win when Shaq is out so I think it will hurt the Suns more then help. Forget jump shooting I would attack the paint so much I wouldn’t pay Shaq no attention and I would play 5 on 4 when Shaq is in the game because that is just what Phonix is going to give you with Shaq on the floor and teams should make no adjustments and just play Shaq 1 on 1 like they have been playing him this year.
idris ishrak Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 12:44 am
FINALLY, an article in the media which is positive about this great trade for the Suns!
I got so sick of trying to talk sense into my friends who talk hoops with me, but never seem to get it!
As a Bucks fan, I can tell you that the Suns were going nowhere fast if they were expecting Amare Stoudamire to be their muscle inside. In the MIL@PHX game, Andrew Bogut’s only missed FG (out of 16 attempts) was from a missed tip in.
I’m afraid any team that lives and dies by a high paced running attack will always fail in the playoffs if the opposing big man shoots 70%.
Shaq immediately solves that problem, and, as you pointed out, actually gives PHX even more opportunities for quality fast breaks. People may focus on the finishing aspect of fast breaks, but unless you can consistently stop the other team’s half court game and get the board, you aren’t going to get many attempts.
Shaq also helps the Suns play in a half court when Nash goes to the bench. Perhaps Barbosa (worst shot selection in the NBA) can be controlled a little bit with Shaq manning the block when Nash is resting his legs.
Great article, Eddie! Thanks for writing well thought out and interesting articles about the NBA! It’s a great change up from the swill that’s published on ESPN , FSN, and CBS Sports.
nikkiboy Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 1:19 am
I do think he can help in defense. In Miami he was always in foul trouble because he has to help EVERYTIME. Nash is the only person incapable of keeping his matchup glide. Diaw, Hill and of course Raja has the capability of keeping afront. Marion is a supplemental player and he thrives in D’Antoni’s system very well but in the last few years he wasn’t effective, like San Antonio, he fades. While Shaq may be aging no other team can offer enough relief of pressure than the Suns. I don’t know either. We can’t conclude until he plays. Likewise, LET US WAIT! GO!
David Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 8:17 am
Nikkiboy,
“San Antonio fades” ???? I’m here in Vegas (on business) and let me quote you their odds for the NBA Championship (posted before SA won and Dallas lost last night).
Boston 4 - 1
Lakers 4 - 1
Suns 5 - 1
Detroit 6 - 1
Spurs 6 - 1
Mavs 7 - 1
I hardly call that “fading”. Spurs (and Suns) have as good a chance as anyone. the regular season ain’t playoff basketball.
AdrianW Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 9:19 am
Eddie I must say I have followed you for years and I enjoy your blog. I don’t agree with you sometimes but you are so on-point with your statements about this trade you are making me shake in my chair. No offense to the THE MATRIX this guy was a real stat stuffer and he helped the SUNS do their thing but let me start by saying this. Shaq has never had the caliber perimeter players that he has right now. In Orlando he has 3-D, Penny, Nick and B-Shaw. The only triple threat out of that bunch was Little Penny. For those of you reading that doesnt know what a triple threat is, that’s a guy with the ability to shoot, pass or drive on any given possesion. In LA he only had KOBE and in Miami he only had Wade and during that Championship run, don’t laugh but Antoine Walker was instrumental in that area because he was able to pass the ball into Shaq, shoot the 3 or drive….That’s what actually took Miami over the top along with Dwayne Wade heroics. With the SUNS he has Barbosa, Nash, Grant Hill, Diaw, Raja Bell. Now if you look at each one of these guys they can penetrate and kick. These guys are great passers and why would one think they would have an issue with making a simple entry pass to Shaq? When Nash penetrates off the pick and roll with Amare how can someone come help with Shaq taking up space underneath? Will they leave Shaq? At 14ppg how many Centers are giving you that production? Andres Biendris is up I hear for a 10 mil plus extension with Golden St and he’s giving you 9ppg and 10rpgs and 45% free throw shooting. Eddie has it right the SUNS made a great move, simply because when the games slow down they have options and lets not forget Shaq is unselfish and a deft passer. D-WADE will see now that she shouldn’t believe the hype, it will be much tougher to get those 25pts. Pat Riley/Micky Arison are the real culprits here because they were thinking $$$$ and cents. This summer they should have re-signed Kapono and Posey and used their mid-level on a player and made a trade with the expiring contracts they had to re-shape that team for the future. Instead they rolled the dice and came up craps. Jerry Buss did something similar in LA by not using the mid-level to add talent to the roster and standing pat. The Suns are as Mulit-dimensional as I have ever seen. A 36 year-old Shaq will still demand attention, with the internet age and so much available to you for those of you who doubt what I say. Download a few games this year of Shaq when he scored 15-20pts and look at why that happened. Also look at the games when he didnt and it was just because of foul trouble. He would go 4-5 times up the court and not get a touch. He was essentially phased out of the offense. When they fed it to him when he had good position he succeeded at a pretty good rate. Is it hard to imagine Shaq giving you 16ppg 8rpg 60% fg with the SUNS. I tell you what I am putting Dallas and Spurs on notice. With Pau and Shaq with contenders they are my favorites barring injury. DID you guys see Gasols court awarness & saavy? Shaq has it like that plus he can still throw one down on someones neck. I simply can’t wait. Either Shaq is going to have several 20pt games or Bell, Hill, Nash are going to set a record from behind the ARC.
Adrian3245 Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 9:25 am
Eddie, great article as usual, The SUNS just made “THE” move. With Marion it made the SUNS a great regular season team. The need to make some noise and get to the finals period. If Shaq debuts and give you something like 17pts 7reb and 4 assists and they win by 14 you may Dirt’s name in trade rumors, Josh Howard, Boozer, lol because everyone knows if they want to win a ring they better make a move!
iceman Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 9:28 am
great move for the suns, i have to wait and see how shaq can fit in and if he does i expect to see the west make or should i say scramble to make moves to compensate
Dre Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 9:28 am
I think he was saying Marion faded against San Antonio, not that San Antonio fades. Reading is fundamental.
ieatshit Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 9:37 am
the suns should at least get a back up center!
Adrian Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 9:45 am
Skinner is all they need, SUNS will change the SPURS , MAVS and Jazz. Poor CUBAN
David Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 9:47 am
Dre…on second thought (read) I think you’re right….and I pride myself on speaking several languages…lol
Sorry, but I still think posting the odds shows just how tight a race it is this year. I guess I keep a little grudge due to Eddie’s continuous writing off of the Spurs around this time of year. The Suns, however, did not. That’s why they made the deal. a suivre…..
bballer Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 10:01 am
ok, you guys are crazy. i’m not saying that shaq will score 40 +. that is irrelevant. what i was stating is how coaches will approach playing phx. the reality is, phx will always have a low post player on the floor with either shaq or stoudemire. that will be the focal point of the offense when nash sits.
instead of having to create their own shots, the second unit will just dump the ball down low to stoudemire or to shaq. this will allow nash to sit longer and not have to worry about losing a lead. in addition, phx will always have a player that can create their own shot in barbosa or grant hill. the addition of shaq brings a lot more balance to phx and gives d’antoni more options with how they choose to play. watching the suns lose to the lakers and the spurs this year made anyone realize something needed to be done.
despite a lower offensive production, shaq is still a force to be reckoned with. playing with a superior pg enhances his game. wondering why shaq played poorly with the heat this year, one just had to watch how jwills played against the lakers on sunday. a 4 on 1 and he jacked up a 3 pointer? that is just frustrating. phx plays a smarter game than that. shaq will avg 15/8 and that is all they need. phx, houston, lal, utah and dallas has the most balanced teams in the west. they all have at least 2 scoring bigs. plus, all five teams have starting and bench wing men who can score. they also have strong defensive bigs and wing men. finally they get above avg pg guard play. any of these 5 teams can easily make the nba finals. (ok i don’t trust rafer leading any team).
unless the spurs get another scoring big to come off the bench, the spurs will struggle when duncan sits. thus, they will not repeat. so people, stop reading stats or playing fantasy bball and watch the games. shaq will do well with the suns. if they lose it is b/c the west is so well balanced. trading for shaq was the best thing for them to do.
Quentin Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 10:44 am
I would stil be concerned that Shaq will clog the paint and we all know that teams love to run the pick and roll agasint him as Shaq continues to get into foul trouble. A Nash Shaq defense guarding the pick in roll does not sound all to great. But surrounding Shaq with shooters should be a positive
erich Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 1:17 pm
More great content from the best analyst nobody has ever heard of. Keep up the great work, Eddie.
e
David G Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 2:45 pm
I am a Miami Heat fan living in Miami. I am not happy to see Shaq go, but I am happy to get 20 million off the cap for just sitting on the bench nad doing nothing (unproductive for the past year and a half) The Matrix and Flash will be the center pieces of many years to come. Shaq has only a few yrs left, we got a championship out of it (and well worth it) But dont think Riles will not make any offseason moves. Next year will be WHITE HOTTTT AGAIN!!!!!!!!
Bodzilla Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 5:29 pm
The Suns will now play with the same players they have had all season, but without Shawn Marion, so their rotation just got smaller. When was the last time Shaq stayed healthy? You think he will all of a sudden start playing 75 games a year? They’ll be lucky to get him into 75% of the games.
Shaq is done physically. He has broken down, it is a shame as well, he WAS the best.
Deshaun Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 10:31 pm
One more thing about shaq-people and basketball “experts” are talking about his health and age and alll that. All those negative remarks are fueling him and his hunger to go out and prove the doubters wrong. The Diesel is motivated to work hard and take Phoenix to the next level-especially if it means knocking out Kobe and the Lakers.
Deshaun Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 10:53 pm
There was no reason for Shaq to waste his energy playing in Miami. Pat Riley did a horrible job surronding Shaq and Wade with role players over the summer, he just lost all the players that helped them win a ring: Posey, Kapono, Walker, Payton, etc. People are still expecting Shaq to take the load and lead the team, and are blaming him for the mess. At his age, he shouldn’t have to be carrying the team, although he is still puttin up decent numbers. At the end of Kareem’s career, he had Magic, Worthy, Byron, Coop, etc. around him. Besides Wade, Riley provided Shaq with Joel Anthony, Earl Barron, and Mark Blount. Now with Nash, Stoudemire and the rest of the Suns Shaq has found his motivation to play again, and I don’t blame him for that-why should he have wasted the last years of his career and worked hard if the front office in Miami wasn’t doing the same?
mb Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 11:07 pm
good article. fresh perspective. shaq has embarrassed himslef on the court as of late. maybe it’s the team, who knows. that’s gone… but if jay will can win a championship with shaq, maybe my grandma can. nash and shaq with amare is silly. gasol going to the lake show is a blockuster move. it has people forgetting about those celtics. kg is hungry.
finally the nba is an interesting place.
dj hott Said,
February 13, 2008 @ 12:55 am
KIDD HAS JUST BEEN TRADED TO ORLANDO FOR J.NELSON,JJ,REDICK,B.COOK,P.GARRITY&PICK
KIDD
BOGANS
LEWIS
TURK
HOWARD
Pepe Said,
February 13, 2008 @ 4:50 am
You truly disappointed me with this one Eddie. This is clearly one of the dummest trades NBA has ever seen, no matter how many reasons you write here. I agree something had to be done and Marion is most likely the one to go but hell, not for Shaq. Shaq might not even make it past this season, he’s way way beyond his best days and his physical cannot be omitted guys. His size was once his biggest asset but now it will continually slow him down, you can’t fool the nature. There’s no way he can keep the pace with today’s league, soon he won’t even be able to get back down the court in time. I truly don’t understand those high expectations you all have from him. He pretty much vanished in Miami and it’s silly to believe we will suddenly see the old Shaq now in Phoenix. He’s out of shape and he ain’t got that “hunger” no more, that’s just the way it is and you all know it. Everybody let’s face it, Shaq’s days are over, maybe he’ll shine a bit here and there this year, considering he’ll be able to play at all, but he’s definitely no dominant force anymore.
This is what I believe will happen - Shaq won’t make no considerable impact this year, his injuries will plague him more and more in the seasons to come and - if he finishes his career with the Suns - he’ll be waived in 2 seasons at the latest. He’s lucky to be still getting all those money, should his salary truly reflect his value he would already retire last year I believe. His non-Laker title with the Heat was seemingly his final piece of motivation, I’d also like to see a little more from him but let’s stop being naive and let’s rather remember the true good old Shaq, not what remained from him now.
nikkiboy Said,
February 13, 2008 @ 5:40 am
dre was right. I was talking about Marion fading against San Antonio. I have a lot of respect at San Antonio that is why I made that statement. I think the only team that hinders the Suns from getting to the Finals as always has been, San Antonio. Still, Lakers and Dallas are threats.
Pepe Said,
February 13, 2008 @ 5:44 am
One more thing Eddie - in all your articles you always used some solid reasoning and viewed things from more perspectives. This article has got an incredibly weak reasoning and is strongly one-sided. You didn’t tell us nothing new, you just summarized the best-case scenario and added a couple of overstatements, including that he’ll help Nash finally win a title and he’ll even improve the Suns running game. It’s more like for some reason you want to believe in the Suns getting better and you try to come up with all possible and impossible reasons to support this theory and convice us all, although some reasons are pointless to say the least. There’s no “what if” point of view in this article, you don’t even consider the possibility of Shaq not playing at all. You claim everything will get better with Marion gone and Shaq in, which makes me wonder - wouldn’t you say exactly the same if the trade happened vice-versa?
doctorb Said,
February 13, 2008 @ 8:43 am
sorry, suns fans, Shaq is not what you think (or he says) he is anymore. He is plodding, out of shape, huffin and puffin, doesnt defend the pick and roll at all, not the shot deterrer he once was, and is generally lazy;
YOur GM should have waited on a more economical big, who isnt going to be injury plagued, i.e. zack randolph…
the “big aristotle” will soon be called the “big mistake” by you suns fans. We in Miami are in the know about this one…
Usually its rare to get back equal value when the “star” is traded. In this case, Marion is a much better player.
Watch a one and done in the playoffs..the only space shaq will take up will be at the buffet table.
doctorb Said,
February 13, 2008 @ 8:45 am
#
ieatshit Said,
February 12, 2008 @ 9:37 am
the suns should at least get a back up center!
———————————————————-
Soon, you will need a starting center..
doctorb Said,
February 13, 2008 @ 8:48 am
Whatever post game you gain with Shaq, you will lose with the defense of marion, and one less player who can hit the 3 ball.
its going to be a wash, in the end.
The only thing Shaq is good in 2008, is ticket sales, and team revenues for merchandise.
Shaq is not going to help in the long run. Yes, he will start off strong, but after a couple games, you all will see how done he is..
CFatz Said,
February 13, 2008 @ 9:10 am
I think it’s time for a new thread, we’ve just about exhausted the variations on the same agreements and disagreements with this one
CF
:0)
space_ Said,
February 13, 2008 @ 9:27 am
i agree with the trade simply because phoenix never had the beef to make it anywhere in the post season. no disrespect kurt thomas but he is a power forward playing center. shaq is not the defensive beast that he used to be but again they miami system and the riley ways were destructive to his game.
even worse was the fact that riley let everyone who could score get away as free agents - eddie jones, james posey, antoine walker [trade], jason kapono and assumed he had a championship calibur team. granted even i could not have predicted the freefall to last place but whoa. shaq ran the floor on the offensive breaks in LaLa laker land if anyone remembers. the free-balling [no jokes please] loose style makes every player salivate. i can bet that the refs are going to start being more fee and supportive of shaq and the calls now that he is on a winning team. i love marion and he started off doing exactly what i thought he would but i WANT to see how shaq plays with the suns.
*note to shaq: that sun will rise in phoenix crap? never again will ya? you kill me with the one-liners.
doctorb Said,
February 13, 2008 @ 9:59 am
suns fans! YOU ARENT GETTING “THE OLD SHAQ” JUST… “AN OLD SHAQ”
BunchofLunch Said,
February 13, 2008 @ 11:34 pm
This is a GREAT article. There is a lot of truth and a lot of people will be surprised at how true it is when they finally see Shaq in the court. YEA!
Omar Aberilla Said,
February 14, 2008 @ 3:04 am
Couldn’t have written it any better Eddie. I’m hoping Kidd reunites with the Mavs. Are there other means to close the deal without involving George and at the same time shunning the luxury tax, which Cuban reportedly is not inclined to pay? Them against the Suns, should they meet in the playoffs, would bring elements of a great rivalry and a great series.
joe Said,
February 14, 2008 @ 3:17 am
Eddie;
You wonder…your mind wAnders…
CFatz Said,
February 14, 2008 @ 8:51 am
Eddie, Here’s one for discussion.
Why would teams give a no-star like Devean George a no-trade clause in his contract. He HAS to know that this trade is not about him. He is a salary-cap filler, a throw away figure, a footnote. Kind of makes you long for the good old days when talented athletes acted spoiled. Now, the UNTALENTED athletes are acting spoiled too.
CF
:0)
Ed Said,
February 14, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
Hey Eddie
I always loved you as a player but I have to take you on the Shaq deal. Unless he can change something he has not gone after a rebound in two years. He can’t or won’t get chase them like Amare or Marion. Next and it is a big “butt”, he is singularly the worse defender on the pick and role among all starting centers with more than 2 years in the league! This will leave Amare back there by himself. So Amare is still under pressure of fouling except on those times when Shaq will defend the pick and role by putting his knee in the cutter and getting the foul first. The Lakers, Spurs, and the Kidd Mavs will have him in foul trouble by the first half. Last and really least; no one is afraid of Shaq. If you have seen him this year and last anyone and everyone is going right at him and that is why he is in foul trouble so much. I don’t think Kobe will be worried about him since he postered Shaq the first time they met when Shaq still had a full tank. The playoffs will see Shaq missing free throws alot until he sits down for the last two minutes. Having said this I still think the Suns are right there because they were right there before the trade and could have won it with Marion. Lakers built for 5 years and Suns now have one year left. Ed in Miami
gren nathan Said,
February 14, 2008 @ 9:04 pm
EDDIE, i AM A LITLE SURPRISED AT YOUR ANALYSIS. YOU NEVER ADDRESS THE DECREASED ATHLETICISM GOING FROM MARION TO SHAQ. I KNOW, I KNOW… THIS IS TYPICAL OF A FORMER ATHLETE- HATING TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE AGING FACTOR. I HAVE SEEN SHAQ FIRST HAND OVER THE YEARS. THE SHAQ THAT WE NOW SEE IS A MERE SHADOW OF HIMSELF. HIS DEFENSIVE REBOUNDING IS VERY SUSPECT BECAUSE HE HAS ZERO MOBILITY. HE WAS ALWAYS THE WORST CENTER IN THE LEAGUE AT DEFENDING THE PICK AND ROLL AS HE DID NOT LIKE TO JUMP OUT OR COVER SMALL GUARDS. AND I HAVE SEEN THESE GUARDS GAVE THE GAUK TO FLASH BY HIM FOR AN EASY UNCONTESTED LAY UP MORE AND MORE OFTEN AS HIS SKILL SET HAS DISINTEGRATED. HE HAS NO LIFT AND CAN BARELY DUNK. AS FOR YOUR LAKER DAY COMPARISONS- MAGIC WAS A YOUNG STUD WHILE KAREEM WAS AN OLDER IN SHAPE VETERAN WHO HAD A CASTE OF THOROUGHBREDS TO PKAY WITH. SHAQ IS A FAR CRY FROM A MUCH THINNER, MORE AGILE, MORE NIMBLE KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR’S WANING DAYS. AS PHIL JACKSON HAS SAID, SHAQ IS A HUGE MAN AND HAVING ALL THE STRESS AND STRAIN OF 320 POUNDS OVER 14 SEASONS (ADD AN ADDITIONAL 198 PLAYOFF GAMES) BEARING DOWN ON HIS HIPS, KNEES, ANKLES AND FEET WE ARE LEFT WITH A SAD REMAINDER OF A ONCE GLORIOUS ATHLETE WHO IS ON THE VERGE OF EMBARRASSING AN ILLUSTRIOUS CAREER. SHAQ HAS MISSED AN AVERAGE OF 26 GAMES A SEASON SINCE 2000-01 SEASON.
ryan Said,
February 14, 2008 @ 9:46 pm
yo eddie…kerr has the right idea but in reality his plans wont work..6 reasons why kerr isa horrible GM….1# in the offseason he let kthomas(who is a better player than brian skinner), and james jones(3 point threat) go for beans 2# he signed a banged up grant hill instead of a big man(im suprised hills body made it this far in the season) 3#his draft choices he made suck!(again no big man) 4#resigned eric P(white boy is done) 5# got rid of marion who fits in the suns system really good(who is argubly the quickest pf ever) 6# made the trade for shaq(need i say more)hahaha he might be slower than brian skinners grandma
Ivan Said,
February 15, 2008 @ 3:33 am
Surya said, “Hell, I think David Robinson is probably more fit to play than Shaq.”
OF COURSE David Robinson is more fit to play than Shaq! David Robinson is still very fit and was one of the most fit athletes of all time. He’s athleticism was his greatest strength.
You DO realize David Robinson only 42, right? You make it seem like he’s Bill Russell’s age…
Surya Said,
February 15, 2008 @ 11:18 am
CFatz,
George wasn’t “given” a no-trade clause by his team. He is given that right by NBA rules because he has a one-year contract. I think it’s a bit more complicated than just that but I just wanted to clarify that he wasn’t given that right by the Mavs or anything. As far as I know, only Kobe has a no-trade clause in his contract.
John Hayden Said,
February 16, 2008 @ 6:05 pm
The analysis is excellent. I would also remind fans about the Lakers when Chamberlain decided rebounds, blocks and ( believe it or not ) assists were important to winning. Chamberlain either led or was close to leading the league in assists that year and the Lakers established the best all time record in the NBA at the time 69-13. This stood up until Jordan’s Bulls erased it I believe.
Michael Bennett Said,
February 17, 2008 @ 11:07 am
Hey Eddie! That was great seeing you in the Shooting Stars competition! Well done.
You should’ve posted that on here so we knew ahead of time (and so we could’ve challenged you). Either way, well done.
What was your favorite part of the night? D Howard’s superman cape? Or, Kapono on fire?
Remi Said,
February 17, 2008 @ 1:13 pm
Eddie great showing at the all star saturday night festivities, you missed only like five 15-foot jump shots in a row, it really made me want to buy ur instructional shooting video…..
jay Said,
March 6, 2008 @ 11:33 pm
Eddie, you were right on the money - unfortunately, we’re talking pesos, here. The Suns look horrible and Shaq has been brutal. Shaq is not the kind of player you bring into your team in mid-season, and least of all, to the Suns. Well, Phx just wasted another year off Nash’s narrowing window, not to mention squandering a prime trading asset in Marion.
Age is a slippery slope, and Shaq-a-sauras will be another year older, declining faster and faster as each month goes on. Oh, and nevermind that the salary cap has been obliterated for a few years. Steve Kerr - idiot or genius? You make the call.
Vito Said,
March 12, 2008 @ 4:19 pm
Stever Kerr: Idiot
BullsNut Said,
March 21, 2008 @ 8:01 am
Eddie:
You are just a fan like the rest of us ; optamistic but not realistic all the time.
vinnychase Said,
March 26, 2008 @ 1:10 am
Looks like the Shaq trade has been working out of late. Sure, they recently lost an overtime game to Detroit, but 7 in a row against some top-notch teams (Spurs, Rockets, etc.) is nothing to overlook.
Will be interesting to see what happens against some of the elite East team games coming up. Suns-Celtics is certainly a potential Finals preview.
As for Shaq’s take on the trade: http://www.shaqquotes.com
The trio of Nash, Shaq, and Amare is one of the most potent in the league…