Marion should want to stay in Phoenix
NBA training camps are about to open and this is the time when positive attitudes and thoughts of making the playoffs and winning championships for every team are on equal footing. I know we can say certain teams have no hope, but after watching the New York Mets choke away a seven- game lead with 17 games left in the season and the Colorado Rockies win almost every game to force a one-game playoff with San Diego, I say everyone has a chance before any season.
The process of getting to the Finals and winning the championship with all the parameters a team deals with is the key. To win consistently a team must have very good players, good health, very good reserves, great coaching, great fan environment… But, most importantly, great chemistry.
Bad chemistry can not only destroy the team, but eventually hurt the individual player. The biggest chemistry story going on now is the unhappiness of Shawn Marion with the Suns.
Marion is the most versatile player in the NBA. He can guard four positions, he scores over 18 points a game, grabs double figure rebounds and usually is among the leaders in steals and dunks. And Marion does all this virtually without any plays being called for him. Marion probably is the most unique basketball player I have ever seen. He has endless energy and plays every game like it’s his last. I have never seen him take a night off. I can only say that about a few players. Karl Malone, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson or Isiah Thomas come to mind.
Marion has made the All-Star team four straight years, he is a member of USA Basketball. He is featured in Nike Basketball advertisements with all the other excellent players in the league. He is widely regarded as one of the most exciting players in the league. But yet he has grown tired of the constant trade rumors involving him over the last few years.
Marion is no different than a lot of players past and present that believe they did not get their “just due” in terms of respect from their current team.
This is a no-win situation for the Suns and Marion.
The Suns need Marion because he provides them with stats they don’t need to manufacture to go along with great defense and rebounding. Shawn needs the Suns because they give him an environment to be extremely productive, being surrounded by two great players in Amare Stoudemire and Steve Nash and playing in a tailored-made offensive system for him.
Once a player retires, he can look back on a decision he made or forced and undoubtedly admit, “I wish I had not done that or asked for that.”
I recall the time I asked George Karl to trade me when I was a member of the Seattle SuperSonics because he was diminishing my role. Ricky Pierce and I had been the go-to scorers on a team that was winning 50 to 55 games a year and yet I had a difficult time understanding why he wanted to change and reduce my minutes and role.
I knew Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp and Derrick McKey were becoming the main options. Why? Because I helped groom them to be. But ego and pride got in the way and two years later, after being traded to a young team in Charlotte, the Sonics went to the Finals and I was spending a year in Greece saying, “What if I didn’t ask for the trade?”
I came back to the league, but never made the Finals.
Marion is facing that same scenario, He does not have to look far to see how difficult it can be when you leave a successful team and take residence somewhere else. He just needs to call Joe Johnson, who made the decision to leave Phoenix and sign with Atlanta and now is trying his hardest to just make the playoffs with a very young and inexperienced team.
Marion’s agent should be showing him all the positives of wanting to stay and finish something he has been a major part of instead of wanting to leave and quite possibly getting great stats, but failing to win at the rate he has with the Suns.
Shawn’s argument will undoubtedly fall back on the fact the Suns were interested in trading him for Garnett this past summer, but being traded for Garnett is not disrespect. Now being traded for Luke Walton, James Posey or Ricky Davis would be a whole different thing. Being traded for Garnett? That in itself is ultimate respect!
The NBA is a business and if Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Oscar Robertson, Wilt Chamberlain and Shaq can be traded then anyone can. Heck, we can in essence say the greatest player of all time was traded indirectly and that’s Michael Jordan to the Wizards.
Marion’s Agent and friends should be laying it out like this.
Shawn,
What’s the most important stat to a player? Minutes. OK, you played over 3,000 and led the team in that category.
What’s the second most important stat? Field goal attempts? OK, you took the second most shots on the team.
What’s the one individual award players like in the regular season? All-Star status. Well, you have made it four straight years.
What’s the newest individual award players feel proud of? USA Basketball. Well, you are a member.
What’s the two most important aspects of playing the game of basketball? Winning a championship and money. Well, you are the highest-paid player on the Suns and one the highest-paid in the league.
The question Marion has to continue to ask himself is how does he keep “myself” in position to win a championship and how can he overcome and learn to understand that basketball is a business and no matter how good you are someone might think the other player could be a little bit better. That’s the business of athletics in general and historically this has been the hardest part for prideful athletes to deal with. But after listing all the positives, there is no doubt he should want to stay a Phoenix Sun and his agent and friends should be screaming this to him daily, because when it is all said and done the Suns could be his best chance to win a title and add one more positive to an already fantastic and a potential Hall of Fame career.
david Said,
October 1, 2007 @ 3:46 pm
Great article, Eddie. You laid it out with all respect for Shawn (something I have been unable to do on Dee Brown’s blog).
The shame is that if he stays, and is unhappy still deep down, that could do the Suns a lot more harm. I guess as a Spurs fan, that’s not a bad idea. Honestly, the Suns are sooooooooooo close, and that should be crystal clear to Marion.
Leowiz Said,
October 1, 2007 @ 4:20 pm
If he gets traded, we need a new player to replace him and I really can’t see a good available fit right now.
Also, Marion is sick of the way the management treats him. Just coz he is quiet does not mean he can’t speak. Hopefully this is all just a way for Marion to show his dis-content. I am a big suns fan and Marion is my fav player. I don’t wanna see him go.
trevor Said,
October 1, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
eddie,
as usual your comments are deadly accurate, like your shot. keep up the good fight helping the NBA. I love all of your articles. I would love to know your thoughts on charging calls. I remember an article of yours way back, (off topic a bit…) so do you think the NBA would be more exciting if the defensive player was aloud to have contact with the offensive player if both players were in the air? so it would essentially be a joust in the air, offense vs. defense? I would rather see two athletic players spar in the air, then see guys set there feet and take charges. why did they eliminate incidental contact in the air?
Kingsblade Said,
October 1, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
hmmm…I think you must have been reading my comments on Dee Brown’s blog.
Mihajlo Said,
October 1, 2007 @ 7:12 pm
Sorry Eddie, I love your stuff but you simplified Marion’s issue a little too much. There is more going on than just “being tired of hearing the trade rumors”. You know that Sarver & Kerr knew about Marion’s wish to be traded early in the summer, before this summers trade rumors. Even Marion realizes teams always talk & they inquire about the good players. If Marion wanted out so bad he could have went to Boston who was willing to give him his extension but he turned it down.
I think it’s a combination of a few things such as Marion believes he is every bit as valuable to the Suns as Nash & Amare but he’s feeling slighted in the recognition department. He is doing everything that is asked of him and putting up great stats w/o any plays being called for him but yet both D’Antoni & Nash have called him out for needing to provide more energy & desire. The coaching staff have “caught” Marion taking a few possessions off after watching game film & have said something. I’m sure he finds these issues much more disrespectful than trade rumors.
The reality of it is Marion has been portrayed as the bad guy in the media and instead of getting into a war of words just decided management didn’t respect him enough and decided to let it be known publically he wanted to leave instead of giving the Suns management the only voice. Remember he said he didn’t like the Suns trying “to force his hand” with the Boston trade. If it was just about money he would have taken the deal and left. He was hurt the Suns were willing to mortgage the future for Garnett now but aren’t willing to negotiate an extension for him now.
He has a bit of the Joe Johnson “woe is me” syndrome but when asked by the media if he would like a similar situation, Marion quickly qualified it with a ” we’d be in the playoffs, right?” Bottom line is that this is the wrong year for Phoenix to make a major tweak like replacing Marion. Nash & the rest of the team knows it. They will circle the wagons and make Marion feel loved again and he will perform like usual. There isn’t any team out there that will have the cap flexibility to give Marion a Lewis type of max. extension. Marion will make the most money by staying with Phoenix the next two years.
If Marion decides to walk after that, does it really matter? Hopefully we will have won a title or two & if we lose him to free-agency w/o getting anybody in return, it isn’t really such a horrible thing. The Suns lose his $17 million off the cap and the team gains an immense amount of salary flexibility to invest into possibly a high #1 from Alanta, possibly extending Tucker & Strawberry if they develop, & free-agents. Sometimes it just isn’t in the best interest of the team to make sure they get an equal talent in return before losing a great player to free-agency. Great players cost money and that would give Marion all the respect his sensitive ego desires if they were willing to pay someone else.
elie Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 12:16 am
The Suns wanna get rid of his huge salary by portray him as the bad guy to make themselves looked good. Sad that guys are easy to manipulate.
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 6:09 am
You’ve wrote that:
“Shawn needs the Suns because they give him an environment to be extremely productive, being surrounded by two great players in Amare Stoudemire and Steve Nash and playing in a tailored-made offensive system for him.”
- Incorrect: Amare’s presence isn’t an advantage for Marion, he boosted his statistics in 2006 while Amare was injured.
I’m going to explain what Marion doesn’t want
- He doesn’t want to be 3rd man in his team. He’s very right about that.
Let’s read what Eddie wrote:
“Marion is the most versatile player in the NBA. He can guard four positions, he scores over 18 points a game, grabs double figure rebounds and usually is among the leaders in steals and dunks. And Marion does all this virtually without any plays being called for him. Marion probably is the most unique basketball player I have ever seen. He has endless energy and plays every game like it’s his last. I have never seen him take a night off.”
And this guy is 3rd man in his team. NAsh and Amare is getting all the credit and very few guys remembers Marion while talking about success.
MARION WANTS TO BE STAR OF HIS TEAM. He is so talented and we should understand his wishes.
Josh Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 7:12 am
Marion is going nowhere. Mark my words. He’ll be back, but he’ll have to come back with a better attitude. If Marion is really getting all this direspect behind the scenes, then the whole team needs to calm him down. Each player, as a team that should care, should take the time to go to him and talk. Tell him how important he is to their team, offense and defense. He’s expected to grab all the boards that Amare doesn’t get, take some steals on defense, along with stop the other teams best offensive player. He should be called STAT. Either way, I really hope this will settle down because I think this is their year. They’re missing 2 pieces. A better shooter at shooting guard, and one more big swing man. Keith Van Horn would be perfect for the offense to play both forward positions. And shooting guard… I don’t know Pavlovic maybe…or Micheal Pietrus is he does hold out on his Warrior contract. Either way. This is the year of the Suns. Seriously though, how many times can a team get into the playoffs and not finish?
Dylan Gadwa Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 7:54 am
In response to Onur’s comments: “And this guy is 3rd man in his team. NAsh and Amare is getting all the credit and very few guys remembers Marion while talking about success.”
Onur, did you and I read the same article?? Sure, Amare has been in the papers LOTS …mostly to see when he’s coming back from surgery.
Yeah, Nash won MVP, but who in their right minds is gonna say that he didn’t deserve it or that Marion deserved it in his place?? Matrix is a great player - no doubt - but there is no way he’s gonna maintain his stat line with Jordan Farmar running the point.
I agree completely with Eddie’s assessment of the right way to move forward thru this. But let me play “bad cop” for a minute by saying that I am REALLY SICK of these prima-donna players “demanding” to be traded. As with Marion, I don’t care how they try and smooth the fans over with all the talk about how much they love the town, they love the fans etc.
I think that there is a big paralell between the modern day Suns and the Stockton/Malone era Jazz. Both are Championship-caliber teams and a good call to make the Finals any given year. They both took a few years to mature and rise to the peak of their abilities. Coincidentally, they were both RIPPED OFF BY THE LEAGUE and had a Title that should be theirs sitting in somebody else’s trophy case. YES, I am STILL BITTER.
My POINT is that you never heard Stockton whine - nor will you hear Nash whine either. Malone used to crab a bit here and there - just like Marion. Time will tell if - like Malone - he can MAN UP and put his money where his mouth is about being “professional” and loving the city and it’s fans the way he says he does. …and time will tell if UNlike the Jazz, the League will stop meddling and let the BEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE do what they should have done last year and TAKE THE CHAMPIONSHIP HOME.
BTW, if his demands continue and they ARE successful, there would be no greater justice than seeing Marion with that PUNK, Kobe Bryant. “Greatest Baller Of The Modern Day” or not, he is still a *PUNK* and going OUT like a punk AGAIN this year!!
Dylan Gadwa Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 8:00 am
…and sorry Onur - just wanted to clarify by saying that Eddie’s piece was lavish with praises on Matrix. I didn’t see how anyone could think he was forgotten after reading it.
I DO love his game and I REALLY hope he stays. But if the Suns can’t get equal value for him, FORGET about a trade.
I live in Toronto and it just blew my mind how our IDIOT GM at the time let that WANK, Vince Carter go for a bag of rocks, a kick in the ass and that blow-hard, Alonzo Mourning who took money from a team but never even bothered to show his face in town. …whata PUNK!!
Jacob Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 8:45 am
trade him phx please… so the celts can get a cake walk for the ring.
jp, i always loved marion… we even have people demanding to trade for marion.
david Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 9:06 am
Onur,
When it becomes all about the “me”, the team concept goes out the window. That’s why the Suns will never win — they are too worried about who gets the credit. I said it before — when Popovich brings in a new player the first thing he does is “to help him get over himself”. Please argue with that success.
key Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 9:06 am
It doesn’t matter if shawn marion wants to be the star of his team…….marion is a top 10 player but cant even create his own shot he is too easily shut down when it matters, we have all seen what bruce bowen did to him in the playoffs. He’s a perfect fit for where he is now the 3rd banana.
Mihajlo Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 9:25 am
“MARION WANTS TO BE STAR OF HIS TEAM.” It’s really not quite that either. Marion would be happy in Phoenix playing with Amare & Nash if he was getting what he felt was an equal amount of respect & recognition as they do. He said he would love to play with Kobe, which means that Marion doesn’t need to be the “man”. In Marion’s mind he is already just as much the “man” or “star” as Nash & Amare but he feels management doesn’t give him they same respect. Many NBA players translate money into respect. The Suns refusal to negotiate an extension is quite disrespectful to Marion. This is where people like Rashard Lewis getting over-paid by Orlando throws all the salaries out of perspective. Now you have players that know they are better than Lewis demanding more money than Lewis for the respect that they believe it brings them.
It’s an insane perception. Gilbert Arenas is going to walk away from $12,800,000 because he wants more money. Baron Davis will be at $17,100,000 next year and had already demanded an extension. Remember Latrell Sprewell’s famous “I have kids to feed” when he was seeking some ungodly number? Here is my favorate example, the Boston Celtics: Their salary cap has been reached with just three players, Garnett, Pierce, & Allen! The next three years it will cost Boston around $55 million per year for three players! They owe Garnett like $100 million, Pierce $75 million & Allen $50 million!
It has really made me sick with the level of selfishness that these stars are at. Why does one player need $20 million per year? I’d be thrilled to death with $500,000 per year! Haven’t they heard of investing their money? Has anybody ever thought about how hard it would actually be to spend that kind of money? Teams need three stars to have a chance to win a title but cannot afford three. What is the best attribute of the big three in S.A., Duncan, Parker, & Ginobili? they didn’t try & break the bank when it came time to get paid!
Matt r Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 10:22 am
Great article, hope Marion realizes it.
Kingsblade Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 10:27 am
@Onur Tuncaboylu:
He will not be the star of any team. He is a utility player. A great one perhaps, but he does not have the tools to carry a team.
@Mihajlo
I’m not sure if you realize this but Duncan is owed more than 60 million over the next three years.
david Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 10:34 am
Kingsblade,
Duncan is worth it, don’t you think? Without him the Spurs are .500 at best. Mihajlo’s point was valid — Parker and Ginoboli are well paid, but they didn’t break the bank and the Spurs are still in good shape.
(although I think Tony did “hold out” for an extra 2M)
Kingsblade Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 11:45 am
Oh I don’t have a problem with Duncan’s salary. He is one of very few who seems to earn it. I was just pointing out that Duncan is a very highly paid player, so to try and make it sound almost like he took a discount or something is completely wrong.
As for Parker and Ginobili, you have to look at the situation they were in when they signed. Neither one was in a position to get more than they got, so to try and use them as an example of players who took less money than they could have gotten is just not a good example.
It is almost as ridiculous as using LeBron James as an example, because he is only getting about 13 million this year.
Are the Spurs lucky to have three players as good as that for what they pay? Yes.
Is it because those players took less than they could have demanded? Hell no.
Back to the point though….
Marion gets as much credit now as he is ever going to get. He has even been mentioned as an MVP candidate. Does he actually think that by leaving he will take it to the next level and WIN the MVP? Not likely, so what is it he wants? He seems to be demanding some sort of verbal affirmation or something since every other sign of respect is already present.
Maybe they need to send him flowers every week or something, with a card that tells him that he is good enough, he is talented enough, and gosh darn it, people like him.
Mihajlo Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 11:51 am
Well yeah, but he is part of the big three & collectively they don’t break the bank. The Spurs model of success is to pay one max. contract & work around it. Kerr is trying to emulate that in Phoenix. This is where the current problem arises, Marion has the high contract and when it’s all said & done, it will be Amare. Nash’s contract is reasonable considering his worth to the Suns success.
For Marion to remain a Sun he will have to be willing to accept around $12 million, nowhere near the $18-$20 he is seeking.
Detriot follows the same model, their big guns are well paid but they average between $9.5 to$13.5 for their top four players. Orlando & Boston do not follow that model & will have problems adding quality around their huge contracts. Look at Philly when they tried to build around Iverson, can you really tie-up so much money around a guard like Arenas & Davis? Denver has some pretty hefty contracts and does anyone think they are title contenders this year?
Lakers have one huge contract but Kobe is worth it in L.A. But they still can’t acquire that third star, ironically they had one & traded him for Kwame Brown (Caron Butler).
beyjee Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
Mihajlo,
Regrding this:
‘It has really made me sick with the level of selfishness that these stars are at. Why does one player need $20 million per year? I’d be thrilled to death with $500,000 per year! ”
These players do not want more money because they need all the money, they demand it because of market value. The whole league is built around market value, it is capitalism baby!
The dynamics will always be the same whether you make 20 million or 20 thousand a year - you will always hold out for more if your market value dictates it.
Besides, the whole NBA would be in shambles if the Garnetts, the Shaqs and the Duncans would suddenly hold-off to play for $500,000 per year!
peace.
Mihajlo Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 12:04 pm
Kingblade that is a very interesting point about Marion. I wish I was a fly on the wall in some of those meetings between him & management. In todays Paul Coro’s column he says that nobody knows what was said behind closed doors.
My personal opinion based on everything I’ve ever read about Marion & my personal belief that Kerr is going to try and build the future Suns around one max. contract, is that Marion feels disrespected that it will not be him but Amare instead. I really think Marion’s “respect” issue would be solved if he was given his max. extension. Supposedly that issue is a point of discussion will potential trade partners such as the Lakers & Utah. Jerry Buss hasn’t been very enthusiatic about giving Marion that extension & we know Utah can’t afford to because they need some money to extend Deron Williams.
I think Marion has backed himself into a corner & thats why he doesn’t elaborate in the press conferences, there really isn’t anything he can say. He’s stuck & he knows it.
david Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
I think it is hard for management to give out huge contract extensions to players who have “peaked”. It really ties their hands for the future. This could happen in SA when Timmy’s contract is coming up, so we’ll see what happens there. Hopefully he’ll follow the lead David Robinson set up — enough to have “respect” but no to bankrupt the team.
When you think about it, how much money has Marion made up until now? 60M? 70M? How much more does he need?
I like Kingsblade’s idea of hiring Stuart Smalley…Marion can certainly afford it.
Jax Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
If Shawn and Andrei are both unhappy with their clubs… might as well switch places. I think it might work!
I think both teams are similar in some ways :
Nash is a great PG, so is Deron a good PG.
Amare is an inside threat, less the atheletism equals Boozer.
Both teams are playoff bound… so nothing much will be missed by Shawn.
Also, it might just work… Andrei’s a great ball player so is Shawn… both would add something new and make a positive impact on their new teams!
Brenda Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
I would take Kirilenko for Marion ANY DAY.
Marion is a stat stuffer who is over rated. Please trade him for Kirilenko! PLEAASE!!!
Mihajlo Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
I’ve always liked AK’s game and think the trade would be OK. There are only two small issues, Utah faces the prospect of losing Marion w/o compensation because they will not give him a max. extension. This might be alright with them because they seemed desperate to unload AK’s contract. AK’s game simply does not match Utah’s or Coach Sloans style, he would really excel in the Suns system or G.S.
The other issue is that Marion has been quite durable, you know he will show-up every night and give you an impressive stat line. AK hasn’t been quite as durable. Also taking on his contract only provides minor relief plus it’s two years longer than Marion’s .
Kingsblade Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
The best part about a potential trade to Utah would be waiting to see how hard Marion cries the first time Sloan gets on his ass about something.
If he doesn’t like playing third fiddle behind Nash and Stoudemire how much more upset would he be having to play the same position behind Williams and Boozer? Combine that with less fast break points and a few Jerry Sloan “pep talks” and Marion will be begging to go back to Phoenix.
Brenda Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 2:08 pm
Marion should kiss his agent’s feet every time he sees him for getting him that over-priced contract. Marion could not score the same amount of points if he were a go-to guy. He better get back in touch with reality and realize that he is a role player, and a good role player perfect for the Suns system.
I would take Odom over Marion too!
Adrian Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
Eddie that was a pretty good article, but I think you are missing some key things. See lets look at when you were with the Suns givin em 22ppg not the Sonics when you where clearly past your prime and your knees where no longer responding. No disrespect, but you were not a difference maker at that time and Shawn is. You have another very poor example in Joe Johnson, yes Mr Johnson was complaining about his role but they were trying to pay him like a mere 3rd or 4th option. He left for Atlanta for the $$$$$$$. Now here is where I find the real issue here. Marion wants and extension, which is more long term $$$. The Suns ain’t going to do it. It seems black athletes always have to kick and scream to get what they have earned. I look at the whole Lance Briggs deal with the Bears, Hinrich(why is this guy put on a pedestal like he is a great player? has he made the all-star game yet?) got his money from the Bull no questions asked. Tony Romo? Well we know he will get his money before his agent has to pick up the phone. Shawn Marion logs huge minutes hustles harder than anyone on the Suns team, somehow conjures up 18ppg and 11rpg yet you toss him in trade rumors not just Garnett and refuse and extension. Well in my book he plays hard leaves it on the court and he is also focused on the buisness side of things to. So Eddie let’s keep it real, it’s about winning but with the earning power he still has no one can blame him for trying to secure his future further financially.
anthony Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
Eddie,
How would you have felt if Sonics management was looking to trade you, after you gave your heart and hardwork to the teams future? A future that included going to the finals!
Your situation was different. You asked to be traded. SHAWN MARION PUT A STOP TO BEING TRADED TO THE CELTICS. You asked to leave, he was told he was gonna leave! How would you feel about that???
Sure he gets paid alot of money. He has put alot of sweat on the court during career. A career with very few games missed. Amare missed a season and he gets mad props for not taking his team any farther. How would you feel about that????
Steve Nash is the MVP and he is a below average defender. A player should be judged on his defense also considering it is half a players GAME. Marion is a tough defender and often called upon to guard players much bigger and out of his position. Amare is an average defender with alot of hype. How would you feel about that???
The suns want to rid themselves of Marion to save money. Fans complain that he makes more than Nash. Should they complain that Nash should make more. The suns agreed to his contract. He puts in 100% and then he hears his name being shopped. Boris Diaw is making $9,000,000 per season. Sun fans should look to save money there (ooops can’t trade him because he is ACTUALLY overpaid, market determines your value). How would you feel about that????
Suns will miss matrix more than matrix will miss them.
I am sure he will be fine elsewhere with a new contract extension and a team that sticks behind him! suns have alot of hype to live up to!
TAMPON Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
marion sux he gets paid the most and took the most shots, and is on a team with the assist leader, he should want to stay, and or they should trade him imediately
Rick Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
For the record Marion’s numbers have remained the same since about his second year in the league. Regardless of the point guard situation (Kidd, Marbury, Barbosa, Nash). He continues to find ways to answer the call on both ends of the floor. There are not many players in the league who are as productive on both ends and log as many minutes as Marion. Here’s a guy that plays both forward spots and made the absence of Amare for a whole year seem like not such a big deal. Please don’t forget that he’s been assigned to guard everyone from Duncan, Brand and Nowitzki to Rashard Lewis, Paul Peirce and T-Mac.
I am not a Marion lover but I do feel in sports today people feel athletes should just shut up and accept what they are given, People also feel money is a cure all.
I think Marion and guys like him are concerned with their personal sports legacy as well as team success and when a player tries to establish his or her personal mark on the game they are seen as selfish a-holes.
Society applauds the players who will ‘fill their role’ and ‘do their part’ for teams and never strive to be the absolute best at what they do. T-Mac and Joe Johnson are just a couple of players that come to mind who had the choice to be a 2nd, 3rd or 4th option on a team but decided to step out and lead a team themselves. Now they have not won rings but neither have the teams they left. They have become All-Stars, made a lot of money and will be a bigger part of their team and NBA history. On the flip side they receive more criticism and media pressure but that’s part of the game.
In Phoenix today, nobody discusses the consistency and impact of Marion on a constant basis. It’s always ‘Is Nash MVP worthy again?’ ‘Will Amare be the same?’ ‘Is Nash’s back ok?’ “Is Nash the best point guard ever?’ ‘Will Amare improve defensively?’
Marion’s saying ‘I’m a great player, one of the best forwards in the game, rarely miss a game, and Nash and Stat get all the love!’ He’s been branded as a one dimensional player that is only as successful as his point guard. How can you fault him for wanting to shake that? D’Antoni is not going to change the game plan so the Matrix can display his ball handling and shot creativity.
Marion is not asking for a franchise tag. He just wants to be respected for his work and get out from under Nash and Stoudemire’s shadow. He’s thinking LA is big enough for he and Kobe which may be right considering he’s not a Shaq-sized personality.
I ain’t mad at that. Do you Shawn! ‘Cause nobody else will look out for you.
Jeremy Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 8:37 pm
The ironic thing is that Marion benefits from the Phoenix system and the fact that Marion doesn’t need plays called for him. He’s the #1 fantasy player as long as I’ve done it. Good points, boards, steals, rebounds, percentages, TO’s. There’s not many, if any teams, where he’d be the #1 option like he wants to be. I think he’s the perfect fit for Phoenix and how they operate. Can you imagine if they still had JJ? Anyways, I hope he wises up. Ak47 would be okay to replace him, but whatever, Marion needs to figure things out. He doesn’t get the credit he deserves. But WTF. Take your money and be happy.
Steven Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 8:46 pm
I think its pretty obvious that Marion is nothing more than third fiddle to Nash and Amare. Marion will never be a franchise player for any team cuz he’s not that guy. He’s a hustle guy who like eddie said doesn’t need plays called for him to be effective. He scores off broken plays/dunks and tip ins.
Although he is not “The Guy” he is a guy that every team needs or wants. He should check himself.
If Amare’s knee shows more damage than they think he’ll move up to 2nd fiddle and Phoenix should hold on to Marion for dear life.
SVP Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 8:58 pm
A little information regarding that whole Spurs salary situations…. Both Parker and Manu were in a position to get more than what they received.
Manu actually could have earned more money. The Nuggets were offering him 1 or 2 million more than San Antonio on a per year basis, and to top it off, Manu could have signed that offer sheet to force San Antonio to match (or let him walk). He quite simply took some time to deliberate, just enough to worry Spurs fans, and chose to sign a lower offer sheet from San Antonio.
Likewise, Parker was holding out for an additional 2 million, after San Antonio management was met with scrutiny for failing to agree to terms with an up and coming PG, the two magically came to an agreement settling in the middle of both offers.
As for Duncan, he is one of the top 10 highest paid players in the NBA, but people often fail to realise he took a 3 year deal in 2000 which combined with the salary cut David Robinson agreed to take (prior to all those injuries) gave San Antonio the flexibility they needed to work a roster into 4 time champions.
That set a a trend in SA that had players take less money to be in San Antonio; Brent Barry took a good deal from the Spurs despite being offered more money for a couple other teams (I believe one deal gave him a ridiculous $8 mill per year, he took $6/). Robert Horry is another one who took pay cuts (as low as under 3 mill per year) to be in San An. Don’t quote me on this, but i believe he declined a player option for the full mle in order to sign a two year tender that barely paid him more than the mle. Another player that comes to mind is Michael Finley.
It is the attitude of the Stars in San An that allow them to build a championship contender. If Duncan, Ginobili and Parker are willing to give management cap flexibility, however significant it is, than the rest of the players will follow suit, and have. You have one guy bitch about a contract, you have to realize other players will follow suit.
freddy Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 1:26 am
I think that marion needs to understand that by staying with the suns he has the best chance at wining a ship and thats the bottom line.The only thing that should matter to him is that his teamates respect him and want him to stay in phx.
CFatz Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 7:43 am
Hi Eddie,
Excellent article.
but Shawn Marion wants his ” Just Due” not “just do”.
Hey, I’m an English major who loves sports
CF
Michael Bennett Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 8:37 am
Eddie — How are you? I’m impartial to THIS article, but I think you should write an article about Isiah Thomas and the current situation. You were very even-handed in this Marion article, and it’s tough to argue someone who covers all bases. But, the Isiah article, including your views on whether or not he should be fired, what the NBA’s repercussions should be, and your general thoughts would start a firestorm.
In the past, you’ve made mention to Isiah… as a competitor and a peer, but also (I think) a friend. So, I think I can speak for all of us in wanting to know what your thoughts were about this…
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 9:12 am
Kingsblade Said
He will not be the star of any team. He is a utility player. A great one perhaps, but he does not have the tools to carry a team.
Hey dude, don’t you think that Marion would be the go-to-guy player in a team like Sacramento or New Orleans. The main problem of Shawn is unable to create his own shot. But he can do perfect everything else. If he can’t find a shooting touch, he can drive inside.
david Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 9:06 am
When it becomes all about the “me”, the team concept goes out the window.
You are right David, but every player wants to have enough credit in success.
Spurs is a perfect team as you said, but the players are taking the credit nearly equal. Duncan %40, Manu %30, Parker %30)
But in Suns, Amare and NAsh is getting nearly 90 percent of attention. I see 2 times MVP Nash and monster Amare anywhere. And a small addition: Consistent Marion.
I think that Marion would like to be 2nd guy of his team at worst. If money would be a problem, he wouldn’t want his trade and would leave Susn next summer.
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 9:22 am
Steven Said,
October 2, 2007 @ 8:46 pm
I think its pretty obvious that Marion is nothing more than third fiddle to Nash and Amare. Marion will never be a franchise player for any team cuz he’s not that guy.
But he was. I’m really surprised how most of you forgot the past.
Check that pages while Amare wasn’t a monster and Nash wasn’t in the town:
http://www.nba.com/suns/stats/2000/index.html
http://www.nba.com/suns/stats/2001/index.html
http://www.nba.com/suns/stats/2002/index.html
Marion was the main of this team with Starbury. You are underrating Marion too much.
And last year:
http://www.nba.com/suns/stats/2005/index.html
He was the go to guy of the team with Nash while Amare was injured.
david Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 9:26 am
SVP, great clarification on the Spurs’ salary situation. The tone for all that was set by David Ribonson. His initial contract with the Spurs (after fulfilling his 2 year naval requirement) was to have the average of the top 2 salaries in the legue. Thus he would always be the 2nd highest paid player in the league and his $$ would go up as others renegotiated their own deals. That sort of contract is now illeagal in the NBA. Robinson tore it up on his own volition and signed a 50M deal right when Shaq was signing his 100M deal.
Furthermore, when Duncan came on board, Robinson was there not only to “coach” him, but also to let him know that it was Duncan’s team, and he graciously took a back seat.
What a tone that set for the franchise. Now contrast this to the Suns. “Who gets to be the man?” “WHo gets more money?”
Mihajlo Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 9:39 am
Adrian you are sadly mistaken with this quote about Joe Johnson:
“You have another very poor example in Joe Johnson, yes Mr Johnson was complaining about his role but they were trying to pay him like a mere 3rd or 4th option. He left for Atlanta for the $$$$$$$.”
Sarver was willing to pay him the maximum allowable extension that was about $65 million I believe. How that fit into option ranking is irrelevent. Joe wasn’t happy in Phoenix for several reasons, they didn’t give him an extension the previous year, the signing of quentin Richardson who played the same position and he also had issues with Amare at the time. Joe BEGGED Sarver not to match Alanta’s contract offer. his leaving had absolutely NOTHING to do with money.
Kingsblade Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 10:10 am
@Onur Tuncaboylu
No I don’t think he would be the go to guy anywhere because he would do exactly the same thing he has done every years he’s been in the league. He is great at what he does, but it is not leading a team. He is a top notch athlete and hustle player, but how can a guy be the go to if he cannot get his own shot? It is laughable that you say he can “drive inside” immediately after saying has cannot get his own shot. He would be behind Bibby and Martin in Sac and he would be behind Paul in NO.
To me that says it all about what kind of guy Marion is. For some guys it is about money, at least they have a tangible reason for requesting trades, even if it is difficult to respect. Marion actually wants to leave a winning team who pays him well because he wants to be a bigger star. In other words he wants to leave for no other reason (and this based on his own reasoning laughably) than to feed his ego. Way to go Shawn. Imagine how much it will hurt when he does go to a bad team and somehow he still doesn’t magically turn into Kobe Bryant.
The guy has been the exact same player his whole career, whether his pg was a Marbury or a Nash. The funny thing is he is getting much more credit now then he ever did before Nash came, but somehow he is blind to that fact.
The you comment on how he only gets a small amount of attention compared to the other two but the truth of the matter is that when people talk about Phoenix they talk about all three, and the fact that his trade request is getting so much press should clue you in to how much credit he receives. If nobody though he was important then nobody would care about his request.
Maybe this whole thing was a big cry for attention so he could have some extra spotlight time. Do you think he feels loved yet?
eddie Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 11:31 am
Adrian
i am glad you know when i was past my prime. what the heck did that have to do with my article. i swear i need to do a clinic after i write an article for some of you guys.
Adrian Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 11:44 am
Eddie the reason I stated you were past your prime was the comparison you made between your asked to be traded and Marion. You were not a key component at the time and Marion is and further more the last few years his name has been hot and heavy in trade rumors even though he left it all on the court. I am not a big Marion fan as I’m a die-hard Laker guy. I just think you used poor examples of Joe Johnson and Marion, those guys and most NBA guys would give up winning for 60-90million extension and I think you would also. So yes sure they would miss the playoffs and all that stuff but I stand by Marion’s request and my statements. 9.9 times out of 10 your opinions are as on point as that sweet jump shot you had I just offered I slightly different perspective.
Mihajlo Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 11:46 am
Yeah! You tell him Eddie! In his mind your role diminished paralleled with the deterioration of your knees, not whether you could still fill it up every night. As you said, the point you were making was that you were still in a great situation for you as a player but you took the change of roles personally and asked to be traded. Reading is fundamental! Don’t worry Eddie, the majority of the people understand your stuff just fine!
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 11:47 am
Kingsblade Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 10:10 am
The you comment on how he only gets a small amount of attention compared to the other two but the truth of the matter is that when people talk about Phoenix they talk about all three, and the fact that his trade request is getting so much press should clue you in to how much credit he receives. If nobody though he was important then nobody would care about his request.
—
Dude, the source of this attention against trade request isn’t only Marion, The main reason is Phoenix i my opinion.
Phoenix is 3rd power of the league and Marion is a valuable membe of this team. That’s why a trade request can change the balance of the west.
————————
You’ve added this:
The guy has been the exact same player his whole career, whether his pg was a Marbury or a Nash. The funny thing is he is getting much more credit now then he ever did before Nash came, but somehow he is blind to that fact.
—
Is being same player in his whole career a bad thing? Duncan is also same player in his whole career, consistent and solid. Moreover, being same player with Marbury and Nash is a hard thing at all. Nash is much more unselfish player than Marbury and people are saying that Marion is good because of Nash. But Marion was good while playing with Marbury.
Mihajlo Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 11:59 am
Ouch! Now Adrian that was just rude & still irrelevent to Eddie’s point. Yes He had a lesser role than Marion but he certainly had a significant role. He was instant offense off the bench his last year in Seattle, I think he averaged about 23 minutes & 14 points a game. That would put him contention for 6th man of the year award. Still has nothing to do with his point, neither he or Marion were/are happy with their roles and wanted to leave an ideal situation for their respective abilities. Whether they had the same impact on their teams is again irrelevent to his point.
Again, I will repeat for you once more that Sarver was willing to match Alanta’s contract offer that was a max. extension for Joe. Joe didn’t want to play in Phoenix & he PLEADED with Sarver not to match the offer. Joe Johnson could have still made the EXACT SAME MONEY in Phoenix that he is making in Alanta, simple enough for you? That means the Joe Johnson example was right on point & relevent!
anthony Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
Steve Kerr has done a poor job handling Marion. It is clear that the suns made the initiative to trade him.
Suns fans would have been happy to see marion in boston and garnett in phoenix. Marion nixed that trade and suns fans are sour about it. Marion did not want to go to boston and play with that mess of a team. Who here would blame him for that?
Oh, but the suns expect him to act like the proposed trade didn’t happen. What are you waiting for Steve Kerr, for Marion to get on his hands and knees and thank you?
Now that Marion says: fine you don’t want me, trade me to the Lakers. You think that is unreasonable? Come on.
Marion is a “hustle” player and will excell with any team. Trust me, Laker and Jazz fans/players will appreciate that.
Mihajlo Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
Sorry Anthony, but I disagree on several of your points. It has came out in the media recently that Marion requested a trade earlier this summer, so of course they were going to explore any trade proposals.
So why would they expect Marion to act like the proposed trade didn’t happen? He had requested one but with his ability to opt out next year he has a lot of input on where he wanted to be traded to. He wanted to go to a contender that played in the West and wanted the new team to give him a max. extension. Problem was/is there aren’t any takers under those conditions & still keep Phoenix a contender.
Jerry Buss of the Lakers hasn’t/wouldn’t approve a max. extension for Marion and neither would Utah. I like Lamar Odom and his game would flourish in Phoenix but he has a history of injuries, so yes, that trade is a bit unreasonable for Phoenix.
Marion’s game does not translate well with all teams. AK & Utah are the perfect example of why it doesn’t. AK & Marion are very similar players. Both are natural SF who are more productive at the PF spot because they are quicker than almost every PF in the league. AK’s struggles in Utah are due to the fact that Sloan runs a very regimented & deliberate system in Utah that takes away from AK’s best attributes, to free-lance & run the floor. How would Marion fare any better? He would be at the 3, his weaker position because Boozer is at the 4. Not only that, with out decent ball-handling or a reliable shot he drops to the 4th option in Utah just like AK, how is that going to make Marion happy?
Conversely, AK is a taller & longer Marion who can block shots at the rim as opposed to Marion’s weak-side blocks. A big advantage for Phoenix plus Ak has superior ball-handling skills another plus for Phoenix as they want more players who can handle the ball to relieve Nash of getting doubled & tripled teamed during the playoffs. Enter Grant Hill. Again the downside for Phoenix is AK isn’t as durable as Marion & he has two more years than Marion on a larger contract.
I’m sorry but it comes down to Marion wanting a max. extension & he is unhappy he isn’t getting one. So yes, as of today, it is unreasonable to accommodate Marion’s trade request. Phoenix needs him for their title run & any current deal lessens their chances. Marion is under contract for two more years so he needs to swallow his pride and just help Phoenix go & get a ring or two. Poor Shawn! He has to earn his $16 million starting on the most desirable team in the league who are title contenders. To have such problems!
Kingsblade Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 1:44 pm
@Onur Tuncaboylu
You always seem to miss the point. At what point did I say that it was bad to be consistent? That being said a guy who has been the same player year in and year out is not suddenly going to become different. (Especially when they do not work on their game in the off-season and rely strictly on their otherworldly athletic ability)
You seem to think that I do not like Marion as a player, and you are very wrong on that account. I love Marion’s game, and he would be an amazing UTILITY PLAYER ON ANY TEAM HE PLAYS FOR. His problem is that he wants to be, as you put it yourself, the go-to guy somewhere. Why will he suddenly make the jump from regular all-star to MVP? What new things will he do to make himself the man? Nothing, because he has nothing new to give.
As for the trade talks….what kind of idiot is upset and offended because he was offered for Kevin Garnett?? Who cares if Phoenix initiated the talks. Does he really see himself as worth more than Garnett?
I don’t doubt that Marion will play well wherever he goes, but he will not find a playing situation as good as he has it here, and he will not get any more credit and/or respect than he already has here.
What he needs is a lesson on how to recognize when you’ve got it good. I coached a high school girls basketball team for one year. The reason I quit so soon? The girls on that team took everything that happened personally and would cry during games and practices because of it. Very frustrating. Marion somehow reminds me exactly of those girls.
He needs to man up and realize that it is both a game, and a business, and that he looks like a fool for taking either one personally. After all, is he a professional athlete or a 16 year old girl?
**Eddie I would trade your shot for Marion any day**
TAMPON Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
MARION TO, BOSTON, FOR R.RHONDO,KEN PERKINS,TONY ALLEN,GLEN DAVIS, AND 2 FUTURE 1ST RD PICKS, HA,
HE DIDNT WANT TO GO, NOW HE GOES, AND FOR CRAP,
G-EDDIE HOUSEG-GABE PRUITT
G-RAY ALLEN J.POSEY
F-P.PIERCE F-B.SCALABRINE
F-S.MARION FLEON POWE
C-K.GARNETT C-SCOT POLLARD
TAMPON Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
EDDIE JOHNSON VS JEFF HORNACEK
SHAWN MARION VS KEANU REEVES
TAMPON Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 6:49 pm
marion &banks to seattle for robert swift,w.zerbiak,earl watson 09 pick
seattle
g-ridnour m.banks
g-durant g-d.west
f-green f-g.mickael
f-marion f-n.collison
c-c.wilcox c=j.petro
loose a few games on purpose, then draft derrick rose,
and in 09 make playoffs for many years
TAMPON Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
derrick rose,roy hibbert,or deandre jordan
TAMPON Said,
October 3, 2007 @ 6:55 pm
and what about a marion for richard jefferson&sean williams
or marion for david lee ,nate james, and jerome james
stay and see him play less intense than last year, or make a trade
LBJ Said,
October 4, 2007 @ 1:20 am
Eddie you made a great point!! And it is very simple….whats most important to you is the question Shawn has to ask himself. Just like Joe Johnson did. Imagine what the Suns could’ve had with Joe with this current team….Granted we’d be minus Boris and some of the draft picks.
But for me I look at great teams like the Pistons, Celtics, Lakers they all had numerous players that could score and carry the team. It wasn’t all about one or two guys. Those teams had 5 guys that could score 15 or more on any given night. Maybe 3-4 that could go 20+ on any night. That makes you a tough team to beat. Shawn wake up man!! Win games we all know what you bring to the table.
TAMPON Said,
October 4, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
since MCGRADY SAID IT WAS ON HIM IF THEY LOST IHOW BOUT TRADING HIM FOR MARION
TAMPON Said,
October 4, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
G-MIKE JAMES G-R.ALSTON
G-S.FRANCIS G-L.HEAD
F-S.MARION F-B.WELLS
F-SCOLA F-S.BATTIER
C-YAO C-MUTOMBO
PHOENIX
G-NASH G-M.BANKS
G.R.BELL G-BARBOSA
F-T.MCGRADY F-G.HILL
F-B.DIAW F-A.TUCKER
C-AMARE C-B.SKINNER
anthony Said,
October 4, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
AK is half the player that Shawn Marion is.
Shawn Marion’s natural position is SF. He excels at power forward because he is an all around good player and because phoenix has not had a protoypical power forward for some time now. He plays power forward because amare & thomas play center. the suns have no one else. diaw gets less than 5 boards and plays over 30 minutes, he is not a PF. kobe would be the best small forward in the league if he was moved to that position, that doesn’t change the fact he is a guard.
I am sure Marion would fit in with the jazz because he hustles. Sloan will appreciate that and he will get up to speed with their system quickly. marion would make the jazz a more balanced team. Marion wouldn’t have to contend with Brand, Garnett, Duncan, Nowitzki, … because Boozer would be battling them. That alone would open up his game tremendously. don’t think he would not get shot opportunites in Utah, williams will get him the ball, don’t worry about that (sloan will make sure of that, if not williams will be on the bench)
I don’t buy that shawn can’t do better elsewhere because the suns provide the best situation. i don’t see the suns any better this year. steve nash has peaked, and so has that team.
The suns have changed around him and he has been consistent. If anyone has been the backbone of that team the last eight years its him. He can do great things elsewhere. Steve Kerr - trade him and let see what happens, he is already spoiled goods.
Mihajlo Said,
October 4, 2007 @ 7:38 pm
“He excels at power forward because he is an all around good player and because phoenix has not had a protoypical power forward for some time now.”
You do not excel at another position because there isn’t another player to play at that spot. What kind of nonsense is that? Marion excels at power forward because he is a freakish athlete that has the quickest 1st & 2nd leap to the ball in the league & that in comination with the Suns fast tempo makes it virtually impossible for a PF to keep Marion off the boards. If Marion played PF or even SF in a slow grind it out half-court game he wouldn’t be nearly as effective because he loses his quickness & speed advantage & does not possess a shot or mid-range game. Sloan runs a very deliberate & regimented style of play, not Marion’s strong suit. What shots are going to be open for Marion? He only makes one-third of his wide-open 3-pt shots as it is. Sloan does not have AK standing at the 3 pt line waiting for the ball & he certainly isn’t going to change that for Marion. Playing SF for Utah, the opposing SF only has to stay between Marion and the rim to render him useless (see Bruce Bowen play him in the playoffs). Do you think they will move Utah’s favorite play, the Williams to Boozer PnR to Marion? Not as long as Sloan is coaching.
Just because you are the prototypical size of a particular position that doesn’t automatically make you a natural at that position. Marion does not possess the ballhandling, shot or mid-range game of a SF. A prototypical SF today would be Carmelo Anthony who is almost the same size as Marion but with a totally superior skill set. Lebron James is built like many undersized PF like Udonis Haslem and Carlos Boozer but according to your flawed logic his natural position is SF so if he played PF, and made All-NBA as PF it would mean nothing because according to you he is a SF.
Lets use Amare as another example, because he is the size of a prototypical PF but yet has played virtually his whole career as a center, made the All-Star team as a center, All-NBA 1st team as a center, made the USA team as a center but yet you are going to call him a PF because he is built like a PF? Sorry but that is completely senseless.
If Kobe played his the rest of his career at SF & he has played there before & he is still the best player in the league, by simple logical reasoning, “that doesn’t change the fact he is a guard”, is an invalid arguement. What governing body has made the determination that Kobe can only be classified as a guard?
Joe Johnson is 6′-7″ and 235#, the same size as Marion but plays SG so according to you Marion should actually be a SG. Or is Johnson really a natural SF just masquerading as a SG? Why can Johnson play SG while being the same size as Marion but Marion cannot? Because like Melo & Kobe, Johnson is a more complete ballplayer.
I guess you simply do not understand D’Antoni’s system, he puts his five best all-around athletes on the floor and lets them loose. He doesn’t abide by your old-school postion determinates. Their frontline thrives in the mismatches. Diaw isn’t a natural PF? You cannot classify Diaw with old-school labeling. He plays every position but physically he is similar to Udonis Haslem, an under-sized PF but with superior all-around skills. Diaw doesn’t possess the quickness to play point guard but passes like one. He doesn’t have the range on his shot to be a natural SF but can guard them. He is too small to over power centers & PF but has a solid post game. So according to your logic Diaw shouldn’t be playing in the league because you can’t label him . How about the term ball-player?
The Lakers/Jackson have just recently come out and said they prefer Odom to Marion in their triangle offense, imagine that. Utah has just brought on ex-Sun Jeff Hornacek to be AK’s personal coach, so they aren’t to thrilled with replacing him with Marion. Boston came out recently & declared they weren’t too thrilled about taking on Marion.
Marion the backbone of the Suns the last eight years? Hardly. Why haven’t the Suns built around him? He has always been a complimentary player to Jason Kidd, Stephon Marbury, Steve Nash & when Amare came on board in 02-03 that was it, he would forever be relegated to 3rd option.
Zei Said,
October 5, 2007 @ 3:10 am
It’s really more about the way someone plays that determines what position he plays. That said, in Phoenix’s system, Shawn is a bit of a mix between PF and SF. He plays a lot of minutes in both spots and puts up better stats at the PF spot, but… so does whoever he is guarding on the other end at the PF spot, unless they decide to go small. (Never a good thing against Phoenix, unless you already play that way.)
Shawn has a hard time playing SF because a lot of SF’s are actually quick enough to keep up with him. Shawn has a hard time playing PF because he’s no where near large enough to guard PF’s. He gets away with all of this though because he hustles, gives 100% on the court, and has a unique blend of athleticism and skill set that makes him effective, at least in this system. (Yes, I know he was good pre-Nash. He has always had an awesome point guard though, with the exception of a stretch when Leandro was starting after Marbury got traded.)
That said: Joe Johnson is a guard because he plays like a guard. He’s a ball handler who makes plays and looks for his own shot. He doesn’t bang, he doesn’t hit the glass hard, he doesn’t play in the post at all, so there’s really no way to legitimately call him a SF, he’s just big enough that he *could*. It’s really the same reason I’ve always considered LeBron to be a SG. He plays like a SF on occasion, but not nearly enough. You’ll find that he’s playing his best when he’s using his supreme size and athleticism advantages on whoever is guarding him down in the post or when taking an entry pass instead of creating from the arc… but he rarely does. The “He rarely does” part is why I have a hard time classifying him as a SF, same way one would have a hard time classifying Kobe, Vince, Joe Johnson and Tracy McCrady as SF’s. I mean sure, they are big enough and physically gifted enough to play like a SF… but they don’t. They play like SG’s.
Ronald Said,
October 5, 2007 @ 9:55 am
I read a lot, but not all, of the comments posted to this board. And, a lot of them are full of crap. Marion is a great ahtlete, but he’s benefited greatly from the system he’s played in, as well as the players he’s played with. and, let’s be real. He’s not a Hall of Fame player!
anthony Said,
October 5, 2007 @ 10:03 am
read what I wrote, I NEVER SAID ONE WORD ABOUT SIZE?
Marion has a tough time with Duncan, Garnett, Odom, Brand, and many other power forwads in the league ( i checked with the secret governing body that determines a position of a player and they confirmed that the above are PF’s, they also confirmed Kobe was a guard). If you can’t guard at PF, HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU A PF? Marion is more affective guarding small forwards (the suns are always quick to forget about defense). What about guarding at your position??? What about defense??? Defense is 50% of a players game!
No, utah won’t stop using the pick and roll. But, I understand that utah has two other plays additional to the pick and roll. I’m sure sloan would use them if he had a talented player that can execute. The suns system is not the be all - end all of basketball. The system is great. Well, up until crunch time in the playoffs, when poise and defense are key!
Nodack Said,
October 8, 2007 @ 8:31 pm
I love Marion and what he brings to the table. He is great, but he does have his weaknesses. He is the highest player on the Suns and now wants even more money. He isn’t worth 20 million a year and that’s what he has demanded. There is no way the Suns are going to pay that and I can’t blame them one bit. He makes almost three million more than Amare and five million more than Nash and Nash was the MVP of the league. Sorry Marion, but your agent is feeding you a bunch of crap because HE wants more money.
Marion wants to be “the guy” on a team instead of the third guy on the totem pole he is with the Suns. Ask Joe Johnson how that has worked out. Joe has the ability to create his own shot where Marion does not. I’ve seen what happens when Marion tries to be the man. His shooting % goes way down because he is forcing things and doing things he isn’t used to doing.
Shawn is perfect for the Suns and the Suns need him. Shawn had his fragile ego bruised and he wants to take his ball and go elsewhere where they will respect him. Sorry Shawn but I have no pity for you. You have everything a guy could ever want and yet you aren’t happy. Maybe he needs to visit a few third world countries to get his priorities straight.
Carpe Diem Said,
October 8, 2007 @ 8:51 pm
I say give him one more year, then replace him. Good article though eddie. Didn’t seem like the fans at the suns practice in tucson had any problems with him, it was like he didn’t miss a beat.
Hey Eddie, how do you feel about DJ strawberry????? Seemed like at the practice in tucson he was D’ing up everbody up.
Keep up the good writing
EDDIES INTERN Said,
October 9, 2007 @ 3:46 pm
DJ STRAWBERRY DID NICE IN THE SUMMER, CAN PLAY 2 OR 1, BUT HONESTLY HE WILL HAVE TIME TO LEARN AND MATURE, HE WILL HAVE TO BEING BEHIND NASH,BELL,BARBOSA,BANKS,AND MAYBE A.TUCKER, HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BOVE TO THE 2ND GUARD OFF BENCH, AND MAYBE BE LIKE A BRANDON ROY TYPE OF PLAYER, LESS ABILITY, BUT ON A WEST CONTENDER
THE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR WILL BE KEVIN DURANT 21PPG 7.5REBS 43%2′S 35%3′S–MEMPHIS IS IN A 3 WAY BATTLE FOR THE STARTING POINTGUARD SPOT-STOUDAMIRE WANTS OUT,LOWRY WANTS MINUTES,AND M.CONLEY IS THE MOST LIKELY TO SUCCEED- AND A BATTLE IN CHICAGO FOR THE PF SPOT-IT WILL BE ROUGH, THERE IS A 3WAY BATTLE BETWEEN-JOE SMITH,TYRUS THOMAS,AND JOKIM NOAH, BUT ALSO NOCIONI SCORED 13 AN 7 WITH MOST MINUTES AT THE 4 LAST YEAR, JOKIM CAN GET ABOUT 13 MINUTES AT C-7AT PF-JOE SMITH GETS 23AT PF-THOMAS GETS 14 MINS AT PF NOCIONI GETS 4MINS AT PF,15AT SF BUT I THINK CHICAGO IS A TRADE AWAY FROM A RING, BUT REAL GOOD, THERE PROBLEM IS THEY NEED A JERMAINE ONEAL, TYPE OF PLAYER NEXT TO B.WALLACE-IF BEN GORDON WANTS 70 MIL-SIGN N TRADE HIM TO INDIANA, ALONG WITH TYRUS THOMAS-FOR JERMAINE ONEAL THEN CHICAGO CAN GO
G-K.HINRICH 16.8PPG 7.0STS G-J.CURRY
G-C.DUHON-7.8PPG 6.0ASTS G-.THABO
F-L.DENG-21.6PPG 7.4REBS F-NOCIONI
F-J.ONEAL 20.6 11.2REBS F-J.NOAH
C-B.WALLACE 5.8PPG 13.2REBS C-A.GRAY
THEN THEY CAN GET A ANOTHER SG- LIKE RONALD MURRY
AND GORDON AND THOMAS ARE YOUNG, AND HAVE MORE MONEY AT ATTENTION TO GET IN INDY-AND THE BULLS GET A RING OR A FINALS VISIT OR 2
EDDIES INTERN Said,
October 9, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
THATS GIVING UP ALOT FOR J.ONEAL, BUT INDIANA WANTS ALOT IN RETURN, AND CHICAGO, MAY NOT WANT TO WAIT,
AND MARION WILL STAY IN PHOENIX, HE WILL JUST TRY TO SHOT MORE, YES MARION IS BETTER ON OFFENSE AT THE 4 WITH A HEAD FAKE, QUICK STEP DUNK, OR SHOT, AND CANT AT 6′7 215 HE CANT DEFEND-DUNCAN,OBERTO,GARNETT,L.ODOM,E.BRAND,C.BOSH,Z.RANDOLPH-BUT CAN DEFEND AT THE 3,AND -HE IS A ENERGY PLAYER, THAT CAN SNEAK IN THE LANE AT GET U 10REBS,OVER ANYBODY, HE PLAYS SMART, AND IF HE WASNT WHINING HE WOULD BE A GREAT TEAMMATE, I DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE HE CAN ASK FOR, U DO HAVE NASH AS THE POINT,I BELIEVE HE WOULD SETTLE TO AVERAGE 14 PPG AND 14ASTS, IF GIVING MARION THE BALL MORE, WOULDN’T MAKE HIM MAD, THE ANSWER IS WHAT CAN HE DO WITH THE EXTRA ATTENTION, HE WASN’T CRAMP ANYTIME HE PLAYED FOR TEAM USA, IT IS HARD TO MAKE A POINT BECAUSE, HONESTLY HE DEFINES TWEENER BECAUSE IF HE IS A ALLSTAR-BUT IF U RATED PF’S-THEIRS MANY AHEAD OF HIM
1.DUNCAN2.GARNETT3.NOWITZKI4.C.BOOZER5.J.ONEAL6.C.BOSH,E.BRAND.
Z.RANDOLPH9.A.JAMISON AND AT SF U HAVE 1.LEBRON2.C.ANTHONY3.P.PIERCE4T.MCGRADY 5.MARION 6.R.LEWIS7.LOUL DENG8.R.JEFFERSON9.JOSH HOWARD10.T.PRINCE
EDDIES INTERN Said,
October 11, 2007 @ 8:55 am
marion needs to buy to copies of eddie johnsons shooting tape
so maybe then he can get the credit he thinks he deserves
because if he can average 20 pts for the suns with a weak ugly ass jumper
if he bought the tape he may could average 25 and be considered a top 12 nba player
EDDIES INTERN Said,
October 11, 2007 @ 8:56 am
2copies, error, eddie don’t fire me
Michael Bennett Said,
October 14, 2007 @ 3:59 pm
Eddie — You have to comment on this:
In the AKRON BEACON JOURNAL, Brian Windhorst writes “LeBron James … showed up to training camp in the best shape of his career. He’s getting to practices early, he’s staying late, and his most popular flaw, his jumper, never has looked better after a summer of diligent work. ‘LeBron is at the center of everything we do,’ Cavs coach Mike Brown said. ‘No one on the team works harder than him, and it sets a great example for the other guys.”’
I’ll guarantee this is his first of five MVP seasons (Kobe = 0).
Aqvhplgj Said,
January 17, 2008 @ 1:11 pm
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