Shaq or Duncan?
Who is the best player of the last decade? I can only think of two players that merit the debate: Shaquile O’Neal and Tim Duncan. But who is better and why? Each player has their favorable traits, assets and abilities that make them stand out. Both are dominant and with Duncan’s championship this year each has four rings. The MVPs, the All Star selections, the individual accolades and the team success are all there for both players… So who’s the choice?
A few years ago Shaq would have been everybody’s answer. In the post-Jordan era, he has clearly been one of the league’s most colorful characters and personalities as well as one of the most dominant, if not the most dominant player in the league. His size and skill set is enormous. Shaq is in the Wilt Chamberlain and Moses Malone mold – straight power. There is no finesse about his game. He anchored the Lakers teams that won three championships. Everything was run through him and he could explode for 40 points and 20 rebounds whenever he put his mind to it. He won his fourth championship with the Heat in 2006, but clearly he played second fiddle to Dwyane Wade. His star is still bright, but it’s fading. The wear and tear to his massive frame is showing. Shaq can’t even make it through a season anymore. Can he win another title, or more likely is he through?
Tim Duncan on the other hand seems to still be in his prime, although his individual explosions never met the heights of Shaq’s. His steadiness year in and year out has matched it. Duncan is the silent assassin. The best power forward to ever play the game. He is more of a finesse player than Shaq. More Kareem to Shaq’s Wilt. More McHale to Shaq’s Malone. But is he better? Is he the more dominant player of the last decade?
Their supporting casts have to be looked at too and both have played with a multitude of prime-time players and superstars. Shaq with Kobe Bryant, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry and Wade and Duncan with David Robinson, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker. Could the 2007 Spurs beat the champion Heat from a year ago? I believe so. Could the 2007 Spurs beat the Shaq/Kobe Lakers? I’m not so sure about that, but probably.
So when it comes down to it, we have to look at the body of work. Shaq was more explosive and his star shined brighter for a shorter period of time, but Duncan’s steady burn keeps going and going and going. Can we see a fifth and sixth ring for Duncan? If the Big Three of the Spurs stay healthy, they obviously can accomplish that.
What about Shaq? I don’t think he will see another ring with the Heat, but can he attach himself to some other potential champion like Dallas? Who knows? But as it looks right now if we are talking about a player of the decade and that decade is the first of the third millenuim, I’d have to give the nod to Tim Duncan.
Jay Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 9:20 am
id say shaq over duncan just because of his overwhelming power, and the fact that when he sets his mind to it he can beat any defense without even breaking a sweat…
Mike Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 9:42 am
I would take Duncan because he is more consistent on the defensive end and a better free throw shooter.
Agee Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 9:46 am
Off course it’s shaq!! Yes Tim D, is still in his prime, but he entered the league 5 years after shaq. All the arguments is about that tim is a better player now, well he is much younger too! (more than 4 years)Where were shaq five years ago.. winning championships and was with out a doubt the most dominant player in the league. In 5 years from now Tim will propably be where shap is now, a good player, but not a great one anymore.
Shaq is the conseseus nr. 1, in the post jordan era!!!
john cruz Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 9:47 am
I don’t agree with you giving the nod to Tim Duncan. He came in the league where it’s Michael Jordan’s last the last two season of his career (still a prime Jordan). Shaq came to the league where Mike had just finish-off of the ‘92 Portland Trailblazer and the start of Bulls dynasty. 2007 Spurs Championship team can’t even win against the ‘92 Portland Trailblazer team in a 7-game series. The only year that I believe they really won the championship is in 2005 where they their opponent is a healthy Detroit Team. 1999 - no Patrick Ewing; 2003 - past the Lakers due to injury of key players; 2007 - young and inexperience Cavs just like ‘94 Magic being swept by a veteran and experienced Houston Rockets Team.
Shaq is Shaq. He swipe-off Duncan-Robinson tandem in his prime. Two giant against one. During their Lakers dynasty (1999-2003) Bryant still not the Bryant of today. Besides the supporting cast of Spurs (1999-2003) is even better than of the Lakers during their run. Shaq’s body already forbid him doing what his doing before on the court. He’s body is too old to his age. I believe its no about conditioning, its the fatigue that slows him down. Kevin Willis for instance, his body is always in condition but does can he do his old thing on the court when he reach the age of 33? David Robinson is always in great condition but why he is prone to injury and can’t do he’s thing on the court after reaching 30? He didn’t even a productive 10-year career.
Duncan might surpass the Championship ring of Shaq but still Shaq (though past his prime) is the player of the decade.
Rico Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:07 am
I say Duncan consistent member of all defensive team.his stats will show how dominat he is..he play both ends of the floor ..A very good team leader on the court and off the court..He inspired his teamates to play better and get the W.
Carlo Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:15 am
If you’re talking about consistency over an entire career, Duncan gets the advantage here. If you’re talking about who was more dominant at his apex in a span of 2 or 3 years, it’s Shaq hands down. In the end, I favor Duncan because of his overall consistency, his versatility, his defense, and his reputation as a great teammate.
Jeff Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:22 am
The lakers and spurs met 5 times in a 6 year span in the playoffs, with the lakers winning 3 of them, including 3 of 4 with phil jackson as coach. The title winning years of the lakers from 2000-2002 destroyed the spurs those years, winning 8 of 9 playoff games. I’ve gotta go with the diesel on that one.
xavier Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:34 am
This is ridiculous,
shaq is a far better player and would be drafted before duncan were they in the same lottery. His dominance is off the sharts, in fact the nba had to change the rules so that he wouldn’t overpower his opponents any more like he was. Tim Duncan is a great player, don’t get me wrong, but he shouldn’t be in the same class as shaq! TD fell in the best situation possible in sa where he could learn a lot from david robinson and didn’t have to be the number 1 option all the time. We also have to take into account the lack of quality big guys in this era. Had TD played in the early ’90s he wouldn’t be so succesful. Shaq is an entertainer, who was litterally unstoppable and still would be without the change of rules.
Zane from London Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:38 am
Right now, I would have to say Shaquille, because of his pure dominance in the paint. The Hack-A-Shaq theory was the only way to keep him from scoring at will.
He doesn’t quite have the all-around game that Duncan does, but his dominance in the paint was so overwhelming particularly in the Lakers era, you can’t overlook that.
It might be a little premature to make this decision however. Shaq may well be injured for the rest of his career, and Duncan has a great cast around his talents which may bring more rings. We’ll see.
space Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:44 am
since shaq has gotten older, heavier and less interested in the regular season people seem to have forgotten how much of a game changer he was. sure he was a brute but completely unstoppable. maybe the league should be saying thank you that he DID NOT hit his free throws. he went to the line sometimes 20 times and hit less than half. imagine 7 more points per game to his season and career average. WHOA! duncan is great, but more a strong piece of a team, shaq was THE BEAST. shaq could drop to 290 pounds and be the #1 center again for another 2-3 years [but sadly he won't]. shaq on almost ANY squad in the entire NBA during those years would have made them instant contenders. duncan? —no. i like his game a lot but for all his skills shaq won 3 straight. and more finals appearences then duncan has rings.
do this: go find an old shaq video [yes i said video] and press play. your jaw will drop. we forgot. we were all witnesses, we just forgot.
Jerry Maine Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:46 am
Duncan is probably the better player over their careers, but Shaq peaked higher, was utterly unstoppable during the early part of the decade.
Chris Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:49 am
I’d still take Olajuwon over both of them.
Matt Atwood Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:58 am
Shaq and its not even a quetion. Shag in his prime was a 28 PPG, 13 RPG guy. Duncan is a 23. 12 guy that would get dominated by Shaqs offense.
Lamont Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:07 am
This is tough. Duncan has that bank shot that he never misses, and sees the floor really well. Shaq is a great passer, has so much power, and can pretty much score whenever he wants.
It is close, but I am going to go with Shaq. It is very close though.
Shaun Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:09 am
Its Shaq, 1) He beat these spurs and tim duncan everytime when he was in the west 2) the lakers were a dynasty , the spurs have NEVER repeated as champions, Shaq and the lakers won 3 in a row and went to the finals 4 years in a row not 4 times in ten years…….booo NBA broadcasters trying to hype up the spurs hoping they can get some news over the summer
Cameron Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:10 am
Duncan for sure, he is more skilled and although Shaq is an underrated defender, Duncan is superior in that category as well.
Dervin Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:22 am
I’d go Shaq over Duncan as well.
In head to head playoff meetings is 3-2 favor of Shaq.
No back to back titles.
And Tim Duncan and the Spurs just seem to be missing something, they never really give you that perception of dominance. You don’t expect them to win the NBA title, but you aren’t shocked when they do. They are always one of the favorites, but they are never “THE Favorite.”
Chad Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:27 am
I would say Duncan as he was the more important cornerstone to his franchise. Could you ever foresee the day the Spurs run Duncan out of town to appease Parker? Also, Duncan is set to surpass Shaq’s championship total in the coming years and be an imprortant part of doing so, whereas Shaq has become more of a role player to Wade.
aaron Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:42 am
I would go shaq. What we take as steadiness for duncan is just that. I couldn’t see duncan averaging 30 plus points a night. No knock but he is at a high point 25ppg. Shaqs shelf life is different due to his girth so duncan will be able to last longer. However if we take into consideration that every team shaq has been on has at least went to the finals, shaq’s best has ran circles around duncan’s I have to go with shaq. Its akin to a guy averaging 18-20 pts for 15 years or a guy averaging 25 for 10. longevity is good but it doesn’t equate to better.
Ryan Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:42 am
I would take Duncan over Shaq, and I don’t think it is even close. Shaq was only good because of his brute stregth and athelitic ability, but he doesn’t possess much skill to his game. Duncan, on the other hand, is so fundamentaly sound. The only big man ever with close to as much fundamentals to his game is Olajowon. I really appreciate the way Duncan plays the game on both sides of the floor. A thinking man’s champion.
Wouter Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:45 am
What is it with all these “let’s compare Duncan to everything divine” since he won that last title? Let’s face it, had it not been for those Phoenix suspensions, or had Dallas gone to the Finals again, we wouldn’t be having these kind of dicussions. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE Duncan, I think he’s the best PF of all-time.. but the best player in the post-Jordan era clearly has been Shaq. I just think the media is just overdoing it the past few days. He’s gone from underappreciated to overappreciated in like 5 days.
faaf Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:47 am
Honestly it’s hard to choose. Just like you said, Seth: Shaq was more dominant for a shorter period of time, but when he was, he was absolutely unstoppable. Lakers team during 2000-2002 period with Shaq were completely and without a doubt the best team in the NBA of that time. But we can look at it from the other side: When it comes to winning…Duncan is probably better. He, just like you said, is more regular in it. And what’s more important he is and was a leader of a team he is/was playing. Parker got the MVP of The Finals, but without Duncan (who was some kind of a base from which Parker could jump for MVP) he wouldn’t get anything. I must confess that I’m a Laker fan, and I loved team with Shaq and those championships (now it is much harder, but it’s not a topic of this post), but still I would pick Duncan, because of his silent perfection and consistent high-level performances.
Dr.Hibbert Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:48 am
In a hypotetical draft with Duncan and Shaq, knowing that both of them would reach their full potential, I would pick Duncan.
I know that Shaq at his best is better than Tim…I think that “Shaq at his best” was the best bigmen ever…but it’s quite difficult to have “Shaq at his best”; you have to put him in the perfect situation (coach and complementary players), keep him motivated (not so easy over a long period of time), and hope he takes care of himself well enough to stay healthy (weight…).
With Duncan everything would be easier: you can build different teams around him (1999 Spurs were different from 2003 Spurs and different from 2005/2007 Spurs), and you have to worry less about his motivation level.
In the 10 years after the draft I would probably lose in those 2-3 seasons in which Shaq would just destroy everything in his path…but I would be more successful throughout the decade.
Joe Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:52 am
and the fact that you can pretty much put any 4 players on the court with Shaq and they would be much more succesful than playing with TD. holla
Joaquin Valent Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:07 pm
Duncan is better player and a team player.
Duncan is the San Antonio Spurs.
So I says, I Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
Shaq. And I’m not sure it’s close. Forget the rings, because that argument is unfair to so many greats that never won a championship. they both have 4, yes. Forget the brighter but shorter trope…because Shaq was really, really good before Kobe arrived. And I think the Lakers during the 3-peat would have beaten any champion Spurs team at least 60-70% of the time in a 7 game series. Anyway, whatever. You think what you want. What does Michelle think?
MTL Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
It has to be Shaq hands down. U can find another Tim Duncan, i believe KG has it all except for the rings. Chris Bosh has the potential, Jermaine O”Neal could’ve been. But to find another Shaq…
Matt Sans Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:25 pm
I got a lotta respect for both there games but i gotta go with shaq because if it wasnt for all the stupid drama he would still be in L.A. collecting rings with kobe. And even thow im a laker fan if d wade gets back healthy the heat can make another run. And look at all the times the spurs and lakers played when shaq was out west they were always wars but the lakers usually won them. And they are both gettin older so there success is dependent on there star teamates aka Dwyane Wade and Tony Parker
mike johnson Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
I think duncan is top 5 best palyer of all time
Doublequad Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:52 pm
Shaq is clearly the more dominent player. “Experts and basketball “pundents” all say Ducan is the greatest PF ever. Well i’ll submit that Duncan isn’t even a PF…he’s a CENTER! The reason he plays PF is that (1) when he was drafted, SA allready had a HOF center in David Robinson. And (2) the last thing SA wanted was a young Duncan getting killed by a younger Shaq in the west. Interestingly enough Duncan NEVER guarded Shaq at any time. But Shaq consistantly guarded Duncon and held his own. The ONLY Center Shaq had a problem guarding (and he openly admits to this) Was H. Olajuwon
LBJ Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
I have to go with Shaq too! I mean if they were the same age it’s a clear choice for me. Shaq changes the game at both ends so much. Duncan does have the type of game that will allow him to be an effective scorer for a longer period though. Tim never had great running or leaping ability so he developed the skills to play without it.
Noah Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
Duncan has been around for 10 great years, and arguably been the best player in the NBA for about the past 7 of them. Shaq had 12 great years (i.e., every year before the past 2) and was arguably the best player in the league for each of those except the first. And Shaq one one ring post-his prime. So, I think it’s hard to argue that Duncan kept it up for longer, at least to this point. I think he will reach that accomplishment over the next few years. Duncan wins for star brightness and longevity.
The only real argument for Duncan being better than Shaq thus far is that, no offense to Tony Parker, Kobe Bryant is by far the best player either of them has played with. Replace Tony Parker with a slightly above average PG, do the Spurs still win championships? Maybe. Replace Kobe (or D-Wade) with a slightly above average wing guard, do the Lakers (or Heat)? No chance. Then again, the Spurs have more good players and better defenders than the Lakers or Heat did.
My conclusion: to this point, Shaq has hands down had the better career. Duncan will likely pass him soon. Of course, if you discount the 1990s (i.e., most of Shaq’s best years), as Ferranti has done, Duncan is better. But, I mean, if you compare Mike James (or anybody) to Oscar Robertson based on what they’ve done in the 2000s, well, Mike James wins. But that obviously doesn’t mean anything.
Noah Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
I meant: Shaq wins for star brightness and longevity!
JR Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
I’d give it to Shaq as San Antonio has been blessed with some quality talent as role players over the years such as Udrih, Finley, Barry, Van Exel, Horry… not to mention Duncan had Robinson to guide him in the early years. I think the Lakers 3-peat was built similar to the Bulls where you have the 2 stars and then not much else.
Besides, have you ever heard of Hack-A-Duncan?
beltu Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
no doubt, it’s duncan. all around player. He’s been a consistent member of the All Defensive and Mythical team.
duncan > basketball player than shaq
shaq > star than duncan
Darkwaters Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 1:32 pm
Shaq and Duncan have both had amazing careers. Both players have been All-Stars every year they’ve been in the league and have lead their teams to 4 titles (albeit, Shaq didn’t really LEAD in the last one, that was Wade). But both have been great players.
Offensively, Duncan is a very good player, but Shaq is downright dominant. The guy was able to do anything he wanted down low and made teams around the league rethink who would play in the post for them. Hence, offensively speaking: Shaq > Duncan
On defense, however, Duncan clearly is the better player. Not only do the Spurs play better team defense than any of Shaq’s teams ever did, but Duncan is the heart of that entire effort. Let me put it this way, Duncan has been all defensive first team 10 times. Shaq has never once in his career even made the All-Defensive 3rd team. Duncan > Shaq in terms of defense (and its not even close).
The final issue to consider is intangibles. Both players have been leaders for their team (as indicated by their handful of rings) but Duncan clearly has been the better teammate. Shaq has consistently took half-seasons off because of being perennially overweight and out of shape. Duncan, on the other hand, is always ready to play and never complains or tears his team apart (see the 2002/2003 Lakers). Duncan > Shaq
All and all, both players are amazing. But it is obvious that Duncan is the better player. Duncan is a very good offensive player while Shaq is downright dominant. But Duncan’s game is far more complete and his effort and team mentality unbalance the scale. I’d rather have the guy that plays both ends of the floor than a constantly out of shape, feuding ego like Shaq.
Sam Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
I think Tim is better. Shaq played in big city and he has more media coverage and people like him but Tim is more fundamental and pure basketball.
kd Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
I with SHAQ, see wat people forget is three straight championships that is hard to do. UR team is th e hunted evry night, Duncan has never repeated at all. The Spurs werent even the best team from 1999-2003. HOw r they a dynasty. Shaq swpt them then came and beat them n five. The SPurs only beat them because shaq didnt get his surgery early.
NOw back to lecture at hand DUncan has been consistent but has he really been dominant or SHAQ dominant. Im with SHAQ he took three franchises to the finals. He has been to six finals that is remarkable. The spurs have been good i dont know great they get players to buy into the system . BUt if i taking somebody IM going Shaq.
If the spurs r a dynasty why r people questioning them, i never here no one question jordans bulls, bill russells celtics, magics lakers, george mikan lakers, and larry birds celtics. THat makes me scracth my head and hmmm.
Jay Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
hey eddie, havin a little change of heart big guy..think of it this way.. both players in their prime, you take the most dominant player ever in Shaq, or the little crybaby in duncan..not even close..
Scott F Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
Shaq was more dominant cause his size and strength.I”ll give you that.But if you look at the overall picture Tim Duncan beats him just look at everything . Shaq has the scoring average by far but tim has rebounds,more double doubles, assists average,more first team all defense,more first team all nba and plays less minutes throughout his career just in 10year span. Than Shaq 10year span. Stats don’t lie! I just want to bring up Shaq had Kobe and Tim had D. Robinson,Manu,and Tony P. D.Robinson was at the end of his career for the 2003 championship. T.Parker was rookie and a no/show in the playoffs.Manu is one that stepped up. Kobe is a hall of famer right now if he retired. Can you say that about Tony.p and Manu right now or even ever when their careers are over? And who puts ego aside for the team? Tim hands down one franchise and Shaq couldn’t get along with penny hardaway and kobe.
Mike Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 3:04 pm
Tim Duncan has done more with less talent until recently. Shaq won championships with former stars turned role players Ron Harper, Rick Fox, Glen Rice, Eddie Jones, Antoine Walker, Alonzo Mourning, Gary Payton and others. Thats not even mentioning playing with the best perimeter players of the league in Kobe and D-Wade. Former all stars Tim Duncan has won championships with include David Robinson, Michael Finley, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili. Shaq has always been a star surrounded by stars even head coach Phil Jackson. Tim Duncan has won with more anonymous teams and has repeatedly destroyed Shaquille O’Neal in the playoffs. Tim has always been the better player and anyone that would choose Shaq ahead of him must already have a team of stars and is not interested in being competitive for a long period of time.
oatmeal Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 3:26 pm
The media has managed to come up with a rather convenient way to compare these two legends in the game and in my view in a way intended to benefit Duncan. The “post Jordan era” coincides with Tim’s career as his first year (98) was MJs last, whereas Shaq was dominating since his rookie year making the Finals and All NBA over a period that cannot count under the post Jordan view.
If you compare entire careers…..Shaq wins. If you compare peaks - Shaq in 2000 and Duncan in 2003 (imho)Shaq wins. If you compare their 1st 10 years in the league Shaq wins (even though Tim would have 1 more ring). If use Shaq’s best 10 years and Duncan’s 10 best….Shaq wins.
To date over the past 30 years only Shaq and MJ have had the mental effect of crippling teams before a minute of a game was even played (and that is not to say that Shaq is in the MJ, Magic or Bird class)but dominance (physical and mental) Shaq wins here too.
If you compare overall impact on the game….Shaq wins.
Oh and: Mutombo, David Robinson, Mourning……all “big men” who don’t have as many All Defense selections as Timmy….but of course…he was a “power forward” while they were competing against each other AT CENTER.
This is an internet blog….poll the coaches and GMs of the past decade or those who have coached or ran teams during both careers and I guarantee you it would not be close.
oatmeal Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 3:35 pm
Mike: Its quite interesting that no one else saw Duncan “repeatedly destroying” Shaq in the playoffs since they played 5 times with Shaq winning 3 going against 2 7 footers in Duncan and Robinson. And since you are mentioning former “stars” like Rick Fox, don’t you think that world beaters like Sean Elliott, Mario Ellie and Avery Johnson should be mentioned too?
xavier Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
Hey Mike, that’s BS! The spurs are the best team when you look at how it is structured: you have 1 superstar (TD), 2 stars (TP and manu) and all the other players are role players who are the best in what they do: defense(bruce), 3point(brent barry, finley and cheap shot rob), big guy who doesn’t create anything(oberto), … The front office of sa is by far the best in the nba in assembling all the pieces and pop is one of the best to make them play organised TEAM bball. What happened with shaq is a lot of players wanted to play in his team but had to change the way they played(jones, walker, payton) in a matter that they weren’t necessarely the missing pieces but miami wasn’t gonna refuse them because they’re good. Guess what: that doesn’t work! And during the threepeat of the lakers who destroyed who?
Shaq is a supersuperstar that was way better in his prime and that’s all that matters. The only thing is shaq has some serious injury problems but don’t forget how poorly TD played last year with his foot. So when both healthy Shaq ’s the man!
David Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
Look at the stats everybody! Even with Shaq declining in the last two years he still has a career average of 25.9 PPG and 11.6 RPG with a field goal percentage of 58%. He also averages 2.4 blocks a game.
Now Duncan, averages 21.8 PPG 11.9 RPG, 2.4 Blocks per game with a field goal percentage of about 51%. So… looking purely at stats, Shaq was more dominant and Shaq was better! There intangibles are both great, but Shaq has been more dominant on points and field goal percentage and is just too big of a force to stop.
Shaq is clearly the winner by 4 full points a season.
Alan Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
I think the majority of commenters have it correct in choosing Shaq as the best player over the last decade. I remember watching Shaq at LSU, and his brute physicality overwhelmed the boys on the college level. This soon translated to the NBA, so much so that the league didn’t know how to officiate the man (and they really didn’t give him half the calls he deserved)! I never saw Wilt play, but from what I hear the likes of Shaq echoed the things I heard about him. Shaq is in another class of greatness. Maybe by the time Timmy retires I will change my tune, but for now Shaq’s last 10 have been better than Tim’s hands down.
And if Shaq wins another title that would lock him in for the ages for me.
Bryan D Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
Duncan without a doubt. Best skilled big man to ever play the game. And as for Ferranti’s comment on individual achievements….Timmy has more than Shaq! Not only has he been an MVP twice, but he has been named All NBA Teams(both regular and defense) every year since entering the league. Not only this, he has been a first Team allstar for every year of his career, a feat conqured by no other player today. Do your research next time please. Also In Shaq’s first three championships, he also had another superstar with him. And People forget his dominance is limited to 8 feet away from the basket (If that). Ducan all the way.
gmoney Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 4:26 pm
First lets take care of the jordan bs. The bulls never beat a team as good as shaqs lakers or duncans spurs in their chmpionship years! So we can stop the post jordan i luv Nike and Gatorade crap. These guys are both better than mj cause they are bigs. Shaq was an absolute monter for about 5-6 years and no one could handle him. Duncan has consistantly been great on both ends of the floor and anchors what is one of the great defenses of all time. Duncan is the better rebounder and defender while shaq simply had no one that could come close to checking him including Duncan. If Duncan can keep up his level of play he will pass shaq in career importance in a couple of years especially if he wins again.
Snakebite Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 4:31 pm
I cant believe this is even a conversation, I can name off the top of my head 10 players who had a similar affect on the game as Tim Duncan. Unfortunetly they wernt blessed with entering the league on a team with 1 of the 50 greatest players of all time, or a brilliant GM, and what i would assume to be great international scouting.
Shaq on the other hand was unguardable in his prime not by 1,2 or 3 players. He did have decent suporting casts in both miami and LA but how many of these players after leaving shaq -led teams went on to win anything>>>? Robert horry, and he road the coattales of more talented players
in closing shaqs a monster.. you cant make a comparison to a player of similar size and athletic ability
and as for duncan.. he is great but you can make arguements that players such as Karl Malone and Kevin Garnett are of equal Dominence.
Aaron Ray Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 4:31 pm
Shaq and Tim play two different positions but…Shaq of course is the more dominant player….offensively. When he set his mind to it he could block shots and grab 20 rebounds…but how often was that even in his prime. Shaq’s great I’m not taking anything away from him, but his defense at times was suspect. Had he stayed with the Lakers, they would have one 3 more championships after their loss to the Detroit Pistons. Tim Duncan can be considered one of the greatest forwards of all time. Many won’t agree because he’s fundamental over flashy, but for the amount of minutes he plays, he is one of the most efficient players of all time. Every year his minutes pg decrease and his production stays the same. He’s not a go to player…I take that back, he chooses not to play like a go to player, but when needed, he can pretty much score at will, if his free throw shooting hadn’t dropped of, then he would have probably averaged 4 or 5 more points a game in the past few seasons. Tim Duncan is consistently on first team all nba and first team all defense…..who else can say that??? Kobe Bryant….T-Mac is another possibility but he’s been injured lately so he’s over looked. So for those who say that Shaq didn’t lead the way to the finals with the Heat and that it was Wade….in no way would the Heat have been there without Shaq…he doesn’t have to be the dominant player that he was to win, he let Wade do it. Also one player can do it alone, as we saw this year with the Heat with Wade being injured. Oh and Jay smartin up, Eddie didn’t write this Blog….Seth Ferranti did…..know your facts.
andrew Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
two points hinger this shaq duncan argument. one is that shaq is a solid 6 or so years older than duncan and really is from a different era. this means the question is flawed. who is the greatest post-jordan era player? shaq played half of his career in the jordan era, so the question inherently favors the younger duncan.
second, part of your pro-duncan argument is that he could very well end up winning up to 5 or 6 rings. that is pure speculation. although it sounds reasonable considering they are a relative dynasty, just a season ago people we murmuring that perhaps the 31 year old duncan has passed the peak of his prime with a subpar showing in 2006, only to bounce back in 07. what if he gets content again and has a subpar 2008 and 2009. now you are talking about 33 and 34 year old tim duncan who just isn’t the same tim duncan anymore. duncan winning 1 or 2 or 3 more titles is pure speculation of course and can’t be taken into account. speculation aside, shaq wins the argument of shaq v. duncan.
Hooty B Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
You have to be a moron to think that duncan has had a better career…
Best season comparison:
Shaq:
Pts-29.7
reb-13.6
ass-3.8
blk-3
shooting 57.4% from the field (dont need to be a good free throw shooter)
lets not forget what he has done in the playoffs (look at the Stats)
Duncan:
pts-25.5
reb-12.7
ass-3.7
blk-2.5
shooting 50.8% from the field
sure duncan hasnt gone up and down, but Duncan’s “up” is not even close to what shaq is and duncan still cant stop shaq’s “down”
scott Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 5:10 pm
Shaq in his prime is better than Duncan in his prime. Don’t let the twilight of Shaq’s career be the lasting impression. This isn’t to say that Shaq’s game is more complete than Duncan’s, it isn’t. But, why does it have to be? Shaq could pound it down low whenever he wanted and get an easy bucket or draw double and triple teams and set up teammates. Duncan has more weapons than Shaq on offense but it doesn’t matter. Shaq could score whenever he wanted to. Shaq>Duncan.
Daris Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
Shaq is the best big of all time. We shouldn’t even be having this debate. http://logan-logsblog.blogspot.com/
jay Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
I’d take Shaq. You can’t use championships because for the 1st half of Shaqs career, he was playing during the Jordan era. Duncan didn’t have to go through that.
Gary Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
if we are talking of the decade, it means the last 10 years, right?
so for the last 10 years we have seen one of them in 8 of the last 10 champions, so that shows their status as mega-superstars…
but… Shaq is 5 or 6 years older than timmy, that means his time to shine as a leader has passed away(just look at he ‘06 Heat), but Duncan is at his prime…
taking into consideration how good Shaq was when he was 30, there’s no doubt Shaq wins this argument… although i has never been a fan os the great Shaquille O’Neal
Mike Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
Let say this from an owner point of view. Who you want on your team? Shaq or TD?
Obviously both Shaq and TD has the potential to win 5 or 6 championship with a good supporting cast. (Shaq 4 out of 6 in winning championship and TD 4 for 4 so far) but with Shaq a victory is also a victory in business where everyone just wants to see Shaq pulls the rim down. And with TD, you get the lowest NBA Final viewing ratings in history (Spurs vs Cavs, Nets, and Pistons all lowest rating).
Therefore Shaq is my man. Not because I am saying he is a better ball player than Duncan. I am saying he is much more dominant over Duncan in all other aspects.
Jeremy Martin Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 7:17 pm
I’d take Shaq 8 days of the week over Duncan. In Shaq’s prime he could have been placed on any NBA team and made them a legit Title contender.
If you could pick any player in NBA history to start your franchise with you could make an arguement for Shaq. I don’t know if Duncan would be in the top 10.
Peter A Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 7:31 pm
First off let me say, i hate everything about Tim Duncan and the Spurs. But i do agree that he is the best power forward ever. But to the question, if i had to pick a player when they were at their absolute best, i would pick shaq hands down. But when it came to building a franchise around, i would pick Timmy D. Shaqs game is gonna break him down and whether it’s this year or next, he will not be effective. Tims game is going to last him a lot longer. Shaq relied on dunks, tim relies on gay little hooks and short jumpers. With age you lose hops, but you never lose your touch.
dg Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
dont forget shaq taking orlando to the finals. SHAQ!!! in his prime vs Duncan in his prime all day.
Miles Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 8:17 pm
The question was who was more dominant in their prime. The answer has to be Shaq. In his prime running for championships he was more unstoppable. Averaging close to 30ppg-15rpg, also for the guy who said he played no defense, he’s been on three-all defensive(2nd to be fair) teams.
Who would I rather have? That would be Tim Duncan. He is less than a diva, less pricey, guaranteed to come to camp ready, doesn’t put off surgery to the last minute, and easy to manage in general. Sure he whines on the court but it can be over-looked.
Also comparing Jordan to these guys is illogical, he is somewhat over-rated and needed more help. He is a product of hype established by Nike & Gatorade. He needed a fellow superstar(Scottie Pippen), and another all-star(Grant-for 1st dynasty, Rodman- 2nd). Also his 2nd dynasty was not impressive, in a weak era caused by over-expansion and before the increasing of talent thanks to international players. To me Shaq could do more with less, pair him with one Superstar(Kobe, Wade), and that’s usually all you needed when he was younger. Glen Rice?! Are you kidding me, was not that third star made out to be in this blog, he was a former star reduced to a role player.
I could go more in depth, and in fact I will when it comes to de-structuring Jordan in a article, easily top 10, but not GOAT. Based on accolades, it seems GOAT but trust me on this one. Well like I said Shaq=better than TD, but rather have TD due to easier to handle.
paHwLhowBhoy Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
Oh man, it’s obviously Shaq!… Duncan is great, but Shaq is greater…
The most dominant in this post-Jordan era… Shaq takes a ton of beating every game he plays, but still manage to came up winning 4 championship..
But now, the more dominant is Duncan… Shaq’s prime is over and we gonna miss it… And Duncan’s dominance, we will see it next playoffs… not this coming season.. you feel me..
Hooty B Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:32 pm
About Tim Duncan being the best Power Forward of all time… hahahahahahahahahahahahaha… I can keep going… hahahahahahahahahaahah…
Hes not even the best PF playing right now. Kevin Garnett (his team sucks) is better than duncan not by much but he is better all the way accross the board. Oh and lets not forget about a guy named Karl Malone (played when jordan was taking all the rings), man people have short memories. Titles are great but that doesnt mean you can call robert horry the best (an exaggerated example)…
malones best year
29 pts
12 rebs
3.5 asst
and he had a “FEW” year close to that
Hooty B Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:39 pm
hahhahahah ask duncan who he thinks is better…
James R Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:52 pm
Shaq is the ultimate 7 footer. By saying this, I mean he can’t hit a shot beyond 7 feet, not that he’s a great 7 foot tall center. Tim Duncan is a much better player because he can shoot the bank shot and does better at the free throw line. Shaq only scored a lot of points because he was big and took easy shots.
Richard Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:07 pm
Most people in my estimation would probably pick Shaq and I have absolutely no problem with that, I’d consider it myself but in retrospect if I could put Tim on the Orlando Magic back when Penny, Nick & Horace were there, I’d take Tim over Shaq simply because I personally believe Tim would have been a better fit and that team could have really won a title. That being said they still were considered the new team of the future.
You jsut can’t go wrong in choosing wither at your center spot. It’s a useless debate, they both dominated in the paint, just differently.
Kowtz Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:12 pm
Who’s the better player? talent wise? SHAQ….
Team wise? SHAQ….
But who’s the wiser? TD!!!!!!!!
TD went champs on odd years… 99, 02, 05, 07…. wait, what happened with 01?
Oh yeah, shaq was busy doing his thing…
peace… ;D
amcdo12 Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
shaq hands down shaq changed the game enough said
they had to create a new strategy for him hack a shaq
Rashidi Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:48 pm
1. Malone had Stockton feeding him the ball.
2. Malone NEVER impacted the game on defense anywhere close to the way Duncan does.
3. Malone never won a championship. The biggest reason is the previous one.
anil Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:50 pm
Duncan over Shaq anyday .. Unlike Shaq , Duncan stayed in a team and took it to heights .. His numbers r down when compared to Shaq cos he always tried to make those around him better .. Guys like Tony and Manu and even Bruce Bowen and Fab Oberto scores a lot of points these days and Timmy is the reason for that .. Duncan is a much better defender .. No Doubt Shaq is a beast and one heck of a player but Duncan is the best ..
And yes .. Duncan is the greatest power forward to ever play the game .. It came from Charles Barkleys and Jerry Sloans mouth ..
Rashidi Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:52 pm
“speculation aside, shaq wins the argument of shaq v. duncan.”
Duncan is YOUNGER and has accomplished more than Shaq has. This means that when Shaq was the same age Duncan is now, Duncan STILL had accomplished more.
Speculation aside? Look, Tim Duncan isn’t going to transform into a scrub overnight. The Spurs may not be absolute locks to win a championship in the next five years (who else would you bet on to win at least one title over the next five years though?), but it’s incredibly likely. It’s incredibly likely Duncan continues doing what he’s been doing his whole career. This isn’t speculation - it’s common sense.
Shaq was dominant mostly due to physical talents as well as moves that took advantage of those talents (most of which were illegal and now get him into foul trouble).
Duncan is a highly intelligent player who knows how to play the game of basketball. He is versatile on offense, affects the game on defense. More importantly, he is a great athlete who has proven himself capable of playing through lingering injuries. Barring some sort of catastrophic injury, he’ll age like an Olajuwon or Malone, playing at a high level into his thirties. Is this guaranteed? No. Is it common sense? Yes.
Shaq has missed 208 games in his career, mostly due to injuries. That’s an average of 13.8 per year (wonder why he only has 1 MVP?). Over the last 6 seasons he has missed an average of 20 games per year. His body is not holding up to the NBA grind, and it’s obvious his game will continue breaking down along with it.
Tim Duncan has missed 42 games in his whole career. Shaq missed that many this year alone.
It doesn’t help that Shaq never worked on an outside game. His free throw shooting has gone from bad to downright abyssmal. Even when you’re strong as an ox, scoring inside in the NBA requires more than strength; it requires quickness - the ability to go around the defense rather than plowing through every time. Shaq’s quickness has rapidly faded, and with no face up game, his offensive game is rather limited.
Duncan on the other hand, you might have noticed hit around half of his mid-range shots in the NBA Finals. That’s a weapon he’ll carry with him as he ages, like Malone did, like Hakeem did, like Barkley, Horace Grant, Cliff Robinson, Eddie Johnson, Steve Kerr, Reggie Miller, John Stockton, Michael Jordan, and any other player running around in their old age - they all can shoot. When he can no longer rise above defenders. Players who got by on mostly physical talents?
As Shaq has aged, his defense has gone from “average depending on who you ask” to poor. Aside from the occasional shotblock and being immovable in the post, he is just abused by the growing number of quicker versatile centers. He is slow out there and offers even less help defense than he did in his prime, also he’s a bit foul prone with the new rules. His rebound range is not good, and without a great rebounding teammate he gets abused on the defensive glass. There is a reason Zo looks so great out there when he comes in for Shaq. He brings energy and intimidation that is not simply present when Shaq is in the game. He isn’t content getting beat on the defensive end. When Shaq was capable of outscoring his man every night, this wasn’t a problem.
And it won’t ever be for Duncan. If it weren’t for a guy named Ben Wallace, Duncan would have multiple defensive player of the year awards in addition to those MVPs, rings, all-nba first team selections, etc.
Dracul Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:55 pm
If we took Tim, in his absolute prime, duplicated him, and had BOTH Timmys try to guard Shaq in his absolute prime, Shaq would still go through them, foul or not.
So if we took Shaq, duplicated him, and put them on guarding Tim, would Tim go through the Shaqs?
Yeah, my point exactly. I’M PICKING SHAQ ALL THE WAY.
Eric Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 12:16 am
Well if shaq was so MONSTROUS how come he diddnt plough through the bulls weak interior during Jordan’s era????How did Olajuwon take him to school????How did he make the finals only once when the great centers ewing olajuwon were in their prime???Shaq’s dominance is exaggerated because his dominance came when Olajuwon,Ewing,Robinson were all on the decline.Dude he even had a hard time going through malone and Ostertaq………But I would say he is more dominant than Duncan, though not quite the unstoppable monster some have portrayed him to be.
the czar Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 12:54 am
for anyone that doesn’t believe that tim duncan is not the best power forward ever, i laugh at you and feel sorry for your stupidity when it comes to basketball. kg doesn’t even compare. it’s like comparing shawn marion to lebron james. stat machines don’t constitute greatness. and when it comes to “i can’t play a lick of defense” karl malone — let’s not even begin to think what tim could’ve done if he played with john stockton for his entire career.
now to the question at hand…
if i had to win a championship and i had the choice of either the diesel or the big fundamental, i would pick shaq any day of the week and twice on sunday. just answer me this. if you needed a basket? or a rebound? or a blocked shot? what is stopping a 300 lb. beast from getting you that? and let’s not go the free throw route because you would have to be a moron if you wanted either of them to shoot charity buckets in the waning minutes of a tied game. i know tim has had a hall of fame career and he rates in my top 5 for best big men of all-time(in case you wanted to know it goes kareem, bill russell, wilt, shaq, tim), but let’s get one thing clear, shaq is the most dominant force the association has ever come across. what mj did with skill– shaq does with sheer will.
Rashidi Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 12:57 am
“I’d take Shaq 8 days of the week over Duncan. In Shaq’s prime he could have been placed on any NBA team and made them a legit Title contender.”
Considering Shaq is a liability with the game on the line, this is not likely. He has mostly played for stacked teams. Orlando owes it’s NBA Finals appearance to REALLY good luck or the lottery being rigged (i.e. the drafting of Penny). Shaq was not going to take that group to the Finals by himself.
When he went to LA, they already had Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Elden Campbell, and had just drafted Kobe. This was not some bum team he signed with. They won 56 games when he joined the team - only 3 more than they won the previous year without him. Lest we not forget the Hall of Fame lineup that Lakers were strutting out his final year.
Shaq has played with three teammates better than anyone Duncan has ever played with - Kobe, Wade, and Penny. And yes, that includes Mr. Robinson who was only a shell of himself thanks to the injury that allowed Duncan to be drafted by the Spurs. Duncan’s top teammates include the fading Admiral, Parker, Ginobili, and Sean Elliott. These guys belong on a list with Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Glen Rice, and Elden Campbell, along with past prime stars Payton and Malone. Duncan has never played with another elite NBA talent. Shaq has played with three.
Bryan D Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 1:08 am
A couple of points higher on stats don’t mean a damn thing. Stats are the most deceiving measurements in basketball which is why Bowen has never won defensive player of the year (when he should have one three straight). People who use statistics to base their opinion on basketball are taking the easy way out and are not basketball purists. To even put Malone and Garnett in the same breath as Timmy is ludacris. Malone and Garnett have never anchored a defense like Duncan has regardless of how many blocks/rebounds they have. More importantly, Garnett and Malone aren’t proven winners, even with stockton or a deep ‘04 team. As far as people not watching the finals this year, they missed out on some great defensive basketball, an artform that “fans” of basketball never appreciate. And Timmy’s San Antonio Spurs are one of the best teams of all time, if not the best team to play the defensive end of the court.
In conclusion, in an all around basketball arsenal, Timmy has Shaq beat, making him the best big man to play the game since BIll Russell. This shouldnt even be an arguement. Anyone who thinks differently just doesn’t know basketball.
simon Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 3:44 am
Shaq over Timmy, despite being a great Spurs fan
Greetings from Milan, Italy
Nick Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 3:44 am
Hands down, Shaq is the most DOMINANT player. Duncan is to much of a team-player to be dominant, but in the long run, as stated in the article, his style is the one that wins more championships.
the czar Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 4:28 am
i love this cause it’s a matter of opinion. you either want an offensive juggernaut or a silent assassin. and you build teams around them that compliment their strengths and hide their weaknesses.
the only way you can really measure who had a better career will be by the amounts of rings they will retire with. i do think the spurs could repeat next year. but only if the wonderful world of free agency doesn’t create a stir. kobe could be traded or finally get some help. and what if lebron could get a legitimate 2nd option to take some of the pressure off. and imagine kg teaming up with steve nash. that’s malone-stockton revolutionized. nash is quicker than stockton and kg plays d.
if tim can do it next year. he sways my vote.
on a side note: i forgot to rate the dream just under wilt with shaq and tim tied at fifth. yes i’m that big of a dork.
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:14 am
john cruz Said, 1999 - no Patrick Ewing; 2003 - past the Lakers due to injury of key players;
How did Spurs reached to NBA finals in 1999? Swept Lakers(with Shaq) and swept Portland. So who cares the opponent in the finals, Spurs were awesome in that series.
Which key players of Lakers were injured in 2003? Shaq? Kobe? Horry? Fisher? No none of them. There were no injury in 2003 for Lakers.
Let’s count the Shaq’s victories:
Beat Indiana 4-2 by the helps of Glen Rice and Kobe.
Beat Phila 4-1. A nice victory against Mutombo
Beat New Jersey 4-0. Beat Sacramento the previous round by a miracle triple by Horry.
Beat Dallas 4-2 by the helps of Wade.
So what will you say?
Pepe Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:18 am
Hm Shaq or TD… I say Kobe, no question about that. Shaq benefits from his size, TD is very efficient but Kobe is the ultimate weapon, if we’re talking about the most dominant player in the post-MJ era. He is the most complete package there is, enough said.
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:31 am
Shaun you wrote that Shaq and the lakers won 3 in a row and went to the finals 4 years in a row not 4 times in ten years…….
Check your memory again and if you’re not Alzheimer you can remember thatLakers couldn’t reach finals after 3 peat. Spurs beat Lakers in 4th year.
After that Lakers regroup by Payton and Malone and beat Spurs by 0.4 seond shot of Fisher
Hey man PAYTON and MALONE.
Some are still saying Duncan has a better cast. Are you kidding me guys? Shaq always played with (at least) a superstar(Kobe, Wade) next of him. Between 2000-2002 Shaq were playing with Kobe, Horry, Harper. Duncan was playing with old Steve Smith and Robinson, rookie Parker and undrafted Bowen. Are you kidding guys? KIDDING? Who has a better cast in his whole life?
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:42 am
Hoooty B, don’t laugh too much. And don’t ask it to Duncan, because he wouldn’t accept he’s best. He’s hunmble, do you know what it is?
Ask to Malone who is better. He will tell you who is better, him or Duncan.
How can you compare both players, i really couldn’t understand. Your brian and logic is working a little different.
hoopgod Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 7:07 am
i agree w/ bryan d.
ask bill rusell who the better big man is. most people tend to sway toward shaq’s power and personality. but i don’t see shaq anchoring the D the way td has. it’s the same reason td is the greatest pf ever, and anybody who thinks otherwise doesn’t understand the game.
and for all the love shaw is getting, he couldn’t stay in shape, he was a main reason that the lakers blew up their team, and just 3 good years compared to TD’s 8? C’mon.
oatmeal Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 8:17 am
Let’s face it Shaq is a lightning rod and whereas he has his supporters he has an equal amount of persons that will just never “like to see” the physical nature of his game. But sometimes one has to give the devil his due. Shaq is the only player in the HISTORY of the NBA with 13 straight years of over 20 points and over 10 rebounds….the only one!!!!!!! So the idea that Tim has done ANYTHING for a longer period than Shaq is just bogus. Shaq went up against Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Mourning and Mutombo in the regular season for the first seven years of his career and made the All NBA team EVERY YEAR meaning he was considered among the top 3 bigs in the league out of that group….none of the others can say that. During the 90s only twice was Shaq eliminated by any of the big men and only Dream gets true credit because it took Duncan and the Admiral to do it in 99. So the “Shaq wasn’t dominant when the great centers played” argument is also bogus.Everyone wants to point to Kobe Wade and Penny………but what about Dennis Scott, Nick Anderson,Damon Jones, Udonis Haslem, Rick Fox, Bryan Shaw, Donald Royal….we saw all these guys play with and without Shaq….you tell me what they did the years without Shaq.
Like I said….I am a fan of Duncan’s greatness and his consistency but when considering the best I don’t think that its about “Who looks better/ smoother doing it”…..Shaq was the game changer, Shaq was the coach’s headache, Shaq was the one that there was no answer for. 04 and 05 the exact same Detroit team managed to slow down Tim and conceded that they had no answer for Shaq (and Shaq was already past his prime in 2004)……If Shaq was as “humble” as Timmy, this debate never gets started.
Mike Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 8:25 am
Tim Duncan is the man. Any body that knows basketball will take Duncan over Shaq. The thing that sets them a side is Duncan plays defense all the time and Shaq is very inconsistent with his defense. Shaq is a better offensive player but Duncan is a better all around player.
RedWhiteNBrown Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 8:45 am
OF COURSE Shaq is the better player. Not only is he the better player, but since the Michael Jordan era, Shaq is the BEST player. He is absolutely UNSTOPPABLE. Ducan is good, yet, he just doesnt have the energy to get a crowd going. His numbers are there, but Shaq’s numbers are better and his actions on the court gets the crowd going. Thats what great players do, they get their teammates and fans involved. Shaq is a GREAT player. And only an idiot would even consider that SHAQ and Duncan are in the same category. Shaq is THE BEST big man to ever play the game.
E.J. Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 8:50 am
Although i’m an avid Spurs fan..i have to go as of today with Shaq…but Timmy has 4-5 more good years on him so lets see.
Bill P Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 9:10 am
Shaq in his prime is more dominant than Duncan in his. And Shaq makes other guys better, and doesn’t get enough credit for his passing. The real difference is Popovich, who has done a fantastic job at keeping a good group of guys around their star and coaching them to be winners. Even if the Kobe-Shaq pair stayed together, I am not sure the Lakers would have been able to maintain the supporting cast. Pop has done that over nine years. So take Shaq over Dunc, but Pop over Phil Jackson and Mitch Kupchak.
Tony from France Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 9:16 am
Hi guys, I would say SHAQ. He miss at least a 70% from the Free Throw line to overpass Duncan, but he’s so powerfull that even Duncan has to admitt that he will let a stronger image in the NBA history than himself.
Duncan is a great player of course but SHAQ is SHAQ. Once they will be retired, we will more remember about Shaq than Tim by the next 20 years.
Jeremy Martin Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 10:22 am
For those of you that say Malone wasn’t a defender are just flat out wrong. Just take a look at the playoffs in Malone’s LA run where 41 yr old Malone completely frustrated Duncan the entire series. I can’t even count the number of times Duncan would try facing up Malone and have the ball stripped out of his hands by Karl, not to mention Malone’s famous “pulling the chair” move.
Shaq is/was a player like we’ve never seen in NBA history. He was double-triple teamed and could still put up 35 and 20, while Duncan still has trouble with stronger defensive players (I.E. Kurt Thomas). While people suggest that Duncan plays with a bunch of scrubs I assume they forget Manu could score 28ppg for about any other team in the NBA and experts continually say that Parker is a top 5 point guard in the NBA and last but not least the best perimeter defender in the NBA Bruce Bowen. Not to mention they are probably the deepest team in the NBA.
Fact is if you replaced Ducan with Garnett the Spurs may not miss a beat. Shaq is just a player that you can’t duplicate.
rob Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 11:05 am
duncans career rebounding is slightly better, but shaq would have explosions where he would make it impossible for the other team to win, call that a tie. duncan is clearly better defensively, don’t even think about arguing that one he’s made defenseive first team every year of his career and holds the finals record for blocks, he’s a monster easily the best defensive player at his position ever, i can’t believe he doesn’t have a DPOY. now shaq though is arguably the greatest pure scorer ever, forgetting the should-be-illegal hack-a-shaq strategy, no defense could ever stop him remotely without fouling the crap out of him, but they did foul the crap out of him and he couldn’t hit free throws to save his life, whereas duncan was at least decent and scored almost as much as shaq. so whats left? duncan has more mvp’s, more first teams, has been healthier, hasn’t played with kobe and d-wade, and never caused issues or controversy on his team, kobe or not. so basically their playoff performance has been identical in production and success, but tims regualar season performance has been much more successful than shaqs (mvp’s injuries, wins, all postseason awards), even though he scored a little less. the final thing is that TD has a few great years left whereas shaq is a role player playing at all-star reserve level who can’t stay healthy, so in 3~ years, TD should be the unquestionable best post-jordan player
albo Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 11:12 am
Right now, I would say Tim Duncan, just because i dont think Shaq can carry a team by himself like Duncan can. But if you’re talking about 4-5 years ago then thats another story because there was not one player that you could say can stop Shaq one on one. But now for Duncan you got guys like KG and Bosh that can take him one on one without any defensive help. And Duncan has always had a better supporting cast than Shaq.
Zane from London Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 11:42 am
Pepe, please don’t put Kobe ahead of Shaq or Duncan. That’s nothing but an insult to both, and the game, considering the title of the post.
Kobe has done absolutely nothing without Shaq, except fill out his own stat book, line his own pockets, and put the Lakers in impossible situations. Shaq won a championship without Kobe, not the other way around.
Kobe may be remembered as the premadonna of the post-Jordan era, and the guy that made the Lakers a lottery team for half-a-dozen years.
Shaquille is the most dominant player over the last decade, hands down. Duncan might be the most consistent player of the last decade, but who’s going to remember that 20 years from now?
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
Jeremy Martin:
Malone’s defense against Duncan was so overrated in 2004 series. He didn’t much more than Horry did against Duncan the year before. Moreover Shaq defended Duncan in the most important parts of the game. Remember who was the defender when Duncan scores before Fisher’s 0.4 second miracle.
Plus, Duncan and Malone are faced many times before that year and Duncan is completely outplayed Malone in each time.(Except 1998)
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
Let’s check Malone’s excellent(!) defense against Duncan in 2004:
G1: Duncan: 30 pts(13-18FG) 11 rebs - Malone: 11 rebs 0 block
G2: Duncan: 24 pts(7-13FG) 7 rebs - Malone: 9 rebs 1 block
G3: Duncan: 10 pts (4-14FG) 13 rebs - Malone: 6 rebs 0 block
G4: Duncan: 19 pts (5-13FG) 10 rebs - Malone: 7 rebs 0 block
G5: Duncan: 21 pts (7-15FG) 21 rebs - Malone: 12 rebs 0 block
G6: Duncan: 20 pts (7-18FG) 11 rebs - Malone: 3 rebs 0 block
Vanlang Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 12:35 pm
I say tim duncan… aside from those two years shaq had (1999-2000 & 2000-2001) tim duncan has been a bigger presence. he makes his teammates around him better… parker and ginobili (not to take anything away from them) benefit from playing with a guy who knows how too pass out of the double team at the right time, thus giving them a chance to create of the dribble.
and the argument about michael jordan in his prime… yeah jordan’s team was awesome… but it wasn’t invincible… a good 1/5 or 1/4 combination could’ve beat them (this also furthers the argument that duncan is better than malone)… no one on those teams can guard the skills duncan has on both ends of the court (no one has the size)
i mean think about it, 2 seconds and the spurs could’ve been winners of 5 straight titles… .4 seconds left derek fihser drains a game winning shot changing the tide of the series (SA could’ve smoked DET) and last year manu’s dumb foul (again SA could’ve smoked MIA… DAL has no defender like Bruce Bowen)
Brandon Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
To the guy above me, No way the Spurs would have smoked Detroit in 2004. Look at the record books. Opponents held under 70 points record went from 3 games in one season to 11, including a streak of 5 in a row that only ended after New Jersey kept fouling to prevent becoming number 6…and then NJ acted like they accomplished something that game even though they still lost the game by 20 points.
But back to the issue, here is my question. If kobe gets traded to a contender and wins next year, will there be a Kobe, Shaq, or Tim debate?
There is no debate. Shaq wins. He made Penny, Kobe, & Wade.
Tim is not even #2. That spot belongs to Kobe.
Best team since Jordan–2004 Pistons!!!
Sergio Castañeda Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
My friends, I didnt like Shaq when he entered the league, he was cocky arrogant, and didnt care much about the team, he cared about commercials, stats, an endorsements, then by his third season he realized that basketball is all about winning, and when he realized it he was swept in the finals, in 95, swept by the bulls in 96, swept by the jazz in 97, almost swept by the jazz in 98, swept by the spurs in 99, and then phil jackson told him he had to be a TEAM player and then he (with a good supporting cast, Kobe, Rice, Fox, Horry and veterans Harper and Green) went on to win MVP honors (truly deserved) and 3 straight championships, But of course DUNCAN is a better TEAM player, he (like the great ones) won a championship in only his second season (lets not forget that the west is truly a wild conference) and then received harsh lessons from the Lakers, but then again like the great ones , stood up and became MVP, and mouch more important champions three more years, he doest (maybe he could do it) do the individual things that Shaq did, but he is the best team player since the days of Russell, and he won 11 championships, so my friends i think its a techincal tie in the individual part but for th e eam part is DUNCAN
Paul M Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 1:54 pm
Shaq: 25.5ppg, 12.1 rpg, 2.8apg, 0.6 spg, 2.2bpg, and 3.11to
Duncan: 23.8ppg, 12.5 rpg, 3.5apg, 0.7spg, 2.8bpg and 3.17 to
Shaq has had a more dominant span, AND more consisten over his career. Obviously his numbers are slipping now, but that’s because he’s old. The same will happen to Duncan too. Shaq’s numbers in his prime will always be better than TD’s. Although TD will probably end up with more rings, that’s not always the be-all, end-all of a players worth. Does this mean Horry is better than Duncan? Malone? Garnett? No. Shaq will always be considered better than Duncan, regardless of how many rings TD gets. Shaq had to try and get past Jordan’s Bulls for the first 5 or 6 years of his career and after that he started winning rings. Who knows if he could have gotten 2 or 3 more had the Jordan Bulls never existed. Duncan has not had to deal with dynasty teams in his way other than Shaq’s Lakers. That’s why the Spurs win every 2-3 years.
Sergio Castañeda Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 1:55 pm
Just one more thing to mr Bryan D, you really know basketball, this is not because we share oppinions about Bowen’s defense or team defense, but for your uderstanding of the game, Great comments
Shawn Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
I cant stand the Spurs, but I have to give the nod to Duncan. Shaq only plays half a season every year. Shaq shoots like 45% from the line. And Shaq doesnt play the kind of defense Tim does. He does play D, but not like Duncan. Shaq was dominant with LA for a few years. Now he is just overpaid…and Duncan will finish with 5 or 6 rings and Shaw will have 4.
Ross Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
I can’t believe people would think Duncan, Of course its Shaq hands down!! Shaq was a wrecking machine when he was drafted, duncan was great but you gotta remember one of those Championships the spurs have i dont consider it being a true title with the lockout on the 1st title. If you put Shaq in his prime on the spurs team he would have a lot more rings than 4!!! Duncan is a great consistent player but he plays power forward and Center is a hard position to fill. Shaq went up against monsters. Duncan is going up against undersized power forwards. Garnett his only threat and Amare Stoudamire in the west, being true power forwards. I am not taking anything away from Duncan but Shaq has the advantage on this debate!!! THE DIESEL!!
Hugh Morris Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
This is a no-brainer situation here. Like HONESTLY :S Shaq or Duncan? Its all about the Diesel baby. Shaq can single handedly take teams to finals and create superstars amongst his team, Duncan on the other hand, is a key player, he too can create superstars amongst his team, but he can never be in the same class as Shaq, its just impossible :S, screw this “its too close” to decide. If these two were put into the same draft pick, Shaq would clearly be picked first. Duncan can have all the rings…but he can’t cover the fact that Shaq’s the better player…inside AND outside the court (Officer Shaq? lol)
BlameBrianShaw Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
You young folks forget that only ONE team beat Michael Jordan’s Bulls in the playoffs during MJ’s prime–Shaq’s Orlando Magic. Yeah, MJ was barely ready, but they did do it.
Shaq brought three entirely different teams to the Finals and dominated both conferences. This one is easy. TD is a fine, fine player. But you’re looking too closely at this year. He sometimes stumbles. Even in 2005, when the Spurs beat the Pistons, did you see how many shots Timmy missed in Game 7? (A John Starks number: 17.) Shaq has over 5000 playoff points to Timmy’s 3200. At this point, it’s not close.
Carnell Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
I think the key word his is dominant. With that being said, you have to go with SHAQ. Until recent years this guy has been unguardable. He’s been to the Finals with 3 different teams, has four titles. I don’t think it’s even close. Duncan a great big man, has many accomplishments as well, but overall….you have to lean towards SHAQ!
Juan Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
Tim Duncan hands down! Shaq is lazy and has no heart. He missed a total of 1 and 1/2 seasons with the Lakers with “injuries” If he has any heart and will to win this would not be a conversation we would be talking about Shaq’s 8th straight ring, but he is heartless and if it wasn’t for Kobe and D-Wade he wouldn’t have a single ring. I’ll take a guy who WANTS to live up to his potential over an overhyped lazy walking minstrel show any day of the week. Shaq’s response? Uh I am da man and uh I think I am diesel uh it’s all about the jewelry uh pay me uh i only get hurt on company time uh me no want work.
LBJ Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 2:51 pm
Didn’t Malone come into the NBA in the 1985 Draft? While Duncan was drafted in 1997. Malone had a lot of miles on him by then so that really would be an unfair matchup. Karl was great at stripping the ball away while players had it low. He was never a big shot blocker.
Rudy Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 3:19 pm
Shaq no doubt. Why? He single handedly made the league change their rules. HE is the reason they are playing zone in the NBA now. Not because of Duncan. Even in this day and age with Shaq being up in years if you have to single cover him one on one he will still kill you for 20+ points. If you can wrap a triangle of defenders around him yes you can limit his effectiveness because he is just not quick enough anymore to move around them. Parker and Ginobli and Duncans supporting cast is way better balanced than any that the laker’s had during their run. The Spurs are a very solid team with great teamwork but one on one nobody was able to stop Shaq and David Stern was forced to change the rules to even up the sides. That can be argued.
Boston Weed Head Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 3:21 pm
You Guys Come On Now…..Shaq Is clearly the better Player post jordan era…Duncan May get more rings in his career an probably have Better Stats but Shaq Was a beast who could take a team to the finals all by himself…Duncan Isnt a bad player an i Like Duncan better than Shaq but i gotta be real here Its The Diesel….
Tim Adkins Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
This truly is Wilt v. Kareem.
And two things come to mind in dealing with this question:
1) What has been different about their contracts and the way they have pursued the business of the game?
2) In terms of pure dominance, who has done a better job of stamping his presence on the game?
To the first question, Duncan seems to be a smarter, more pragmatic businessman while Shaq seems to be driven by his own ego. That difference is the reason Duncan is still a Spur and Shaq is on his third team this career.
To the second question, never during Duncan’s career has an entire conference or an entire league spent its offseasons retooling simply so they could compete on semi-equal footing with him. He’s the quiet assasin for a reason and, to me, that implies that “dominant” is simply the wrong word to describe his accomplishments.
Further, I look at their head-to-head matchups circa 2000-2004. That’s really when they were on as equal footing as possible and Shaq’s teams owned Duncan’s teams. Individually, Phil Jackson made it a habit to have Shaq guard Duncan in the 4th quarter and that, in part, is why Shaq’s Lakers owned Duncan’s Spurs.
If I had the pick in this ficticious draft, I take Shaq everytime. I know that I run the risk of losing him should I fail to build a capable team around him. But I also know that he makes me a team that everyone else has to respond to immediately. Old or young. Healthy or not. He’s simply that dominant.
Mike Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
There really is no argument… it’s Duncan. Shaq has always had superior teams than Duncan.. i.e, Penny Hardway, Dennis Scott, Nick Anderson at Orlando, Koby Bryant, Fisher, Horry at L.A., D. Wade, A. Walker, Jason Williams, A. Mourning at Miami, but Duncan has done more in less time with less talent than Shaq. Shaq wasn’t even the best rebounder in his years in the league… ie D. Rodman, K. Garnett, D. Robinson, T. Duncan, H. Olajuwon, Mutombo … neither was he the best scoring center ever (Wilt, Hakeem, Moses Malone, Kareem were all better with more range in their game). Shaq is the biggest guy we have ever seen, but stats don’t lie… and he is far from the most dominate ever… in this era, and in antiquity.
Brian Boytono Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
This is a pointless debate. If you wanna talk dominant big man look no further than Bryant Big Country Reeves. This man had his prime stollen away from him, and had it not been for that clearly we could all see the grizzlies with atleast 7 or 8 titles. Could you imagine a Bryant Reeves Paul Gasol Hakim warrick Front line? Pure domination. I was talking to shaq after one of my figure Skating events and I said “shaq baby, who is the toughtest person for you to guard? Brian, he said there isnt a more dominant big in the league then Bryant Reeves. So as i have said with “nsider”information if it not for Bryant Reeves having his prime stolen from him, we would be debating whos the 2nd best post jordan era player.
EJ Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
Give me a break. Shaq can’t make a shot if its not within 10 feet of the basket. Just because he is able to bully his way to the basket does not make him a great basketball player. Tim Duncan is far more skilled on both ends of the floor no matter what stats say. TD plays the game the way it should be played.
wiZo Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
I hate Shaq….but it’s not even close. People now look at Duncan and say he’s better and that he’s the best PF of all time now. The phrase “out of sight, out of mind” is so true with many sports fans. Anyone that has followed basketball closely for the last decade knows HOW DOMINANT Shaq was. In fact, Duncan is very lucky to be playing with David Robinson (who was better defensively than Duncan)…because when Duncan actually had to matchup against Shaq on various possessions, Shaq would abuse him on BOTH ends of the floor. If D-Rob didn’t get injured then Duncan would be a CENTER on another team and have to matchup with Shaq more often.
Duncan is a great player no doubt, but its just obvious that Shaq in his prime was a far far far more dominant player.
Ray Moon Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
There are 2 differents situations here i think. If we talk about the Post Jordan era, i’d take Shaq, he’s been in the league a little longer than Duncan and he had to deal with some of the best centers in NBA history. Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing and now teammate Zo were his rivals for many years and at the end he dominated, and surpassed them all. Timmy just had a few good years of Karl Malone and KG, and lately Amaré,some could say Dirk too, but he’s allergic to the paint and is more a forward than a power-forward. So the competition isn’t equal. So, if we’re talking post Jordan, like i was saying, i pick Shaq, if we talk about 2000-2007, then yeah, i’ll pick Duncan.
Hooty B Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:02 pm
good point LBJ took the words right out of my mouth… as for you Onur Tuncaboylu you dumb turk. listen and listen carefully, Duncan has more skill i know that… and if shaq was 6 feet tall he would be in the nba but hes not hes 7′1 and he couldnt be stopped for the majority of his career… shoot he still cant be stopped becsause he is stopping himself (age). The time lakers lost to the spurs was because they were in shambles same with detroit, the team wasnt getting along and if you play ball you would understand that its hard to win when you dont like your teammates. i dont even know why people say duncan is a better defender, name played that have had shaq number (NOBODY) but shaq gives it to everybody. oh and i can name a few players that give it to duncan… kevin garnett, amare stoudemire, pau gasol, yao, dirk, zach randolf oh and carlos boozer… sure duncan has good games against them too but rarely players had good games against shaq. nobody has ever dunked on shaq… oh but hes not a good defender ahahhaahahahahaha and i will keep laughing dumbass turk.
Hooty B Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
you want to talk about the lucky shot fisher made… go ahead but if you were watching the game you would know that duncans fall to the ground 20 footer was pretty lucky too… so if you want to make those a wash, then lakers still win with kobes shot.
Hooty B Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:08 pm
oh i forgot about elton brand (he also gives it to duncan)
Hooty B Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:10 pm
garnett is better than duncan…
chris Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:30 pm
Has to be Shaq hands down, took a horrible orlando team his rookie year from a 20 win season to 41 and barely missed the playoffs in the eastern conference,that still had the boston with a very competitive led bird, mchale,parrish and lewis, indiana with, reggie, chuck person, detlef, rik smits in their prime, hornets team, with a young alonzo,grand mama, dell curry, nets with drago, “DC” and kenny anderson, the great knicks team, the “unbeatable bulls” and the up and coming heat with glen rics steve smith and rony seikly. He played the first half of his career, in the Jordan era, mix olajuwon’s superior rockets team, he played against competition, where there we’ren’t only quality big men but also dominat big men just check the list, olajuwon,robinson,ewing, 2nd teir,rik smits,rony seikly,vlade divac,kevin duckworth, kevin willis,alozo,and brad duaghterhy. Head-to-head in the playoffs its basically a wash, both swept each other once on their way to a championship. shaq has had an massive impact on evryteam he’s played for, turned the heat into an instant contender, not just on paper but in actual play, every power forward to play with him has all thier key statistical across the board increased, won a championships with, an 40 y.o. A.C. Green,ditto for Horace Grant And Samalki Walker as his starting power Forward in the west with the murders row P.F.’s in rasheed, Chris webber in his Prime, Duncan, at all times must be doubled team even when doubled teamed scores 40 pulls down 20.
Hooty B Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:39 pm
Onur Tuncaboylu dont down play Duncans supporting cast…
David Robinson - he was an ok player last time i checked (toward the end of his career but still very good)
Manu Ginobili - 6th man of the year but a legit starter and a pretty damn good one
Tony Parker - best penetrating point guard (and he finishes)
Bruce Bowen- yeah he was undrafted but who cares hes become the best defensive player… and kobe said it (the best offensive player)
you mentioned the lakers had a better supporting cast and added names like this had kobe, horry, and harper.
I’ll add a few more:
Derek Fisher (solid point guard)
Rick Fox (good)
Payton (old) should’nt have started over fisher, only did cuz of his name
Malone (old)
glen rice (wheel chair)
Mitch richmond (barely played)
JR rider (too busy getting faded)
nobody does it on his own and Duncan def. didnt do it on his own, and if you replace duncan with garnett on the wolves he would be in the same position garnett is in right now, and garnett would be in the same position duncans in.
lys Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 7:12 pm
You would think after watching the value of a 7-footer shooting J’s (Dirk N) folks would realize the obvious. You want & need the big man to dominant the paint! That’s how you shot 55+ % as Shaq has done in every NBA final he’s played in, thus forcing the double team. Oh, and for the haters he dominated Detroit in the Conference finals last year too. That’s why things were so open for D-Wade! Dallas made a clear decision to have the youngster proof it, instead of the letting Shaq be his usual dominating self! I love TD but Shaq made Dennis Scoot & Nick anderson look like budding all stars. Hell, he made Damon Jones look so good, Cleveland is stuck overpaying him!
Jason Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
I got to go with Duncan because he could change a franchise. Let’s face it, if that ref didn’t call that foul on Ginobli against the Mavericks, the Spurs would have beaten the Heat and Shaq would have three and Duncan with 5. The Spurs would have won in 2005, 2006, and 2007. Duncan also better defender.
Rashidi Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
Glen Rice (wheel chair)
LMAO
Rice was still playing at an all-star level as a 3rd option with the Lakers, he didn’t fall apart until he got plantar faciaitis with the Knicks.
Don’t downplay the Lakers supporting cast. They were very deep particularly when they had Rice. As time went on bench guys like Horry, Fox, and Fisher were forced to fill roles and only then did the lineup get thinner. And then as we all know, the Lakers picked up Payton and Malone to send them back to the bench.
Unfortunately none of those Spurs players you mention was a superstar like Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, or even Penny pre-injuries. They are fringe all-stars who excel because they play with a superstar.
Who would you rather have?
Ginobili, Parker, Bowen
OR
Kobe, Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones
Next question.
Carlo Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 8:55 pm
I think it’s shaq. let’s not forget that it was shaq’s lakers that steam-rolled over the spurs on consecutive playoffs. It’s still the diesel.
John Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 8:56 pm
Duncan has beat the Lakers’ Shaq and Kobe combination in the past. However, Shaq and Kobe at its prime in the combination is a more fun game to watch than Duncan’s game.
Hooty B Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 8:57 pm
Tim Duncan is overrated. He’s very good (not great) but everybody makes him out to be god… and HE’S NOT!!!
Deal with it Ra-SHITTY
Lets not campare GREAT (Shaq) with GOOD (Duncan)
letscompare duncan to lets saaaaayyyyyy……… mmmmmm
OH I KNOW Mehmet Okur… hahahahahahahahahah
Onur Tuncaboylu will like that one (Dumb Turk)
James Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
Shaq’s Lakers had the makings of a team that I believe would have beaten San Antonio. They always had veteran leadership at the point- Shaw, Harper, Lindsey Hunter, and Lue/Fisher should have been able to slow Parker somewhat. Rick Fox was a very underrated player if you consider his role in the triangle (spreading defense, ball rotation) and his defense. The Samaki Walkers, Greg Fosters, and such were big bodies to throw at Duncan and the Spurs’ bigs. Horry and (Horace) Grant from 15-20 would spread the floor enough to force 1-on-1 coverage of Shaq. Sean Elliott, Bruce Bowen, Avery, Kerr, etc. were good, but the Lakers would have won. Had Robinson played alongside Ginobili and Parker, we might have a different story.
João Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 9:28 pm
TD best playoff years, 01 - 27 ppg 14 rpb 5 apg
SO best playoff years, 01 - 30 ppg 15 rpg 3 apg
The thing is, Shaq has 3 years with 30 ppg plus entire playoffs years and 15 rpg plus over another 3 entire playoffs years …
TD second e thid best years was 25 and 10 , 24 and 15 …. Another thing is that Shaq went to the finals with 3 diferent teams … If this is not an impact, I dont now what it is ,,, And another thing is that TD sometimes is guard 2 on 1, Shaq without the ball is always guarded 2 on 1 and with the ball 3 on 1 … So I would like to see TD post 30 plus a game with 3 guys on him every single possession … Shaq hands down, all the way from São Paulo Brazil … I´m out like Lebron …
Harold "Mista H" Wilson Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
Anyone who thinks Wade carried Shaq in ‘06 is wrong. That’s like saying Tony Parker carried Duncan this year, when it was obvious Mr. Longoria capitalized on a great matchup (i.e. a team without a true point guard and an injured Larry Hughes moonlighting as PG) while a savvy veteran in O’Neal stepped back last year.
Remember, Shaq was All-NBA First Team just last year in ‘06, while Wade wasn’t (even though he should’ve been, but I’ll leave that for another day). A healthy Shaq, who averaged 20.0 ppg adn 9.2 rpg in 05-06, could’ve repeated this year as a first-teamer, looking at Amare’s averages (20.4 ppg, 9.6 rpg) for 06-07.
Another note, for you saying Shaq is declining,take a look at his field goal percentage, a category in which he ranks I believe second all-time (.588). Actually, since coming to Miami Shaq’s been a better “shooter” the last four seasons, shooting .601 (04-05), .600 (05-06) and .591 (06-07) in his three years with the Heat. That represents three of the best four seasons of his career, with the exception of 93-94 when he shot .599.
So during his “prime” averaged over 20 and 10 each. And the year’s he supposedly “declined” he takes a struggling franchise and turns them into champions in two years while allowing Wade the chance to blossom by taking fewer shots (leading to a higher percentage). Sounds more Duncan-like to me than Duncan…
Except for the fact that Shaq blows away Duncan in head-to-head stats, which have been well-state above.
Don’t let it be forgotten either that Shaq — and only Shaq — took out Jordan’s Bulls during their dynasty years from 1991-1998, with MJ’s retirement in 93-94 being the lone other year Chicago failed to win.
And for those using the supporting cast argument, remember Little Penny fizzled after Shaq bailed for L.A. and Kobe is still trying to get out of the first round without Shaq. And as good as Wade is, did you watch those guys at the beginning when the then-reigning Finals MVP was trying to carry the team.
With all that said, I vote for Shaq. He’s tied with Duncan in titles, but holds the edge when it comes to Finals apperances (six) and average-wise in points, rebounds and field-goal percentage. And as bad as some of you say his defense is, he still averages 2.4 blocks per game over his career. And, don’t forget, the best defense sometimes is a good offense.
Stephen Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 11:26 pm
I think with out a doubt its mike Bibby.. he can spot upand shoot from anywhere and he has never had free throw troubles like Shaq or Duncan..
First Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 11:34 pm
First 10 yrs PLAYOFFS
Duncan 92-46 .667
Shaq 77-47 .621
Duncan 23.8ppg 12.5rbd 3.5ast 2.75blk
Shaq 28.2ppg 12.7rbd 3.2ast 2.25blk
Duncan 4 rings
Shaq 3 rings
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 3:03 am
Hooty B, some word to you?
What i’m saying.
Let’s talk about 2003 championshiop. You moron, read it now:
Parker is penetrating guard NOW. But he wasn’t, He was 21 and 2nd year in the league.
Manu: He was rookie and coming off the bench most 12 pts every game.
D-Rob: It was his last year, he couldn’t get eevn double-bouble average in 2003
S-Jackson: Did you hear his name before 2003?
Bowen: He proved nothing bedore 2003.
He made that team champions you birdbrain. Would Shaq win with those guys? I don’t think so.
You are still talking about Garnett. Garnett was a good player but he wasn’t alone whole his life. He played with Marbury, Billups, Wally, Ricky Pierce and most of talent. But he failed. He couldn’t reach to ring with Rasho, but Duncan did.
Use your brain a little after that.
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 3:10 am
Hooty D, you need to learn more about Turks. Not all of them are dumbs. You can ask your mother.
You are the dumbest person in this blog. I don’t know why you are trying to underrate Duncan by saying Elton Brand and Garnett better. Maybe i should ask it to your mother.
You wrote that “nobody has ever dunked on shaq…” You moron, you stupid. Lots of guys dunk on Mutombo. Now is Shaq better defender than Mutombo?
How do this kind of idiots are writing to blog. If i would be as stupid and idiot as Hooty, i would afraid to write here. Even the Turks ahve learned how idiot he is.
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 3:22 am
Hooty says
David Robinson - he was an ok player last time i checked (toward the end of his career but still very good)
Yes , you remember. you can’t even remember your name, you moron.
I would remind you:
D-Rob’s average in regular season of 2003: 8.5 pts 7.90 rebs
D-Rob’s average in play-offs of 2003: 7.8 pts 6.6 rebs
Duncan beat Lakers with those guys:
Parker: 2nd year 21 years old guard.
S-Jax: Never proved anything before 2003
Bowen: Nice defensive player, but was not better overall player than Rick Fox (who Shaq have.)
D-Rob: Read above.
Manu: First year in NBA and couldn’t adjust exactly in 2003.
Duncan beat Shaq with that cast. Shaq was playing with Kobe, Fisher, Horry, George (all of them have much more experience.)
After that year Malone and Payton joined to Shaq. Spurs lost S-Jax and D-Rob and could bring Hedo(or He doesn’t) and Rasho.
Shaq could beat Duncan barely that year. By the help of luck, Fisher and incredible show by Kobe.
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 3:27 am
D-Rob’s average in regular season of 2003: 8.5 pts 7.90 rebs
D-Rob’s average in play-offs of 2003: 7.8 pts 6.6 rebs
Manu’s average in regular season of 2003: 7.6 pts 2.3 rebs
Manu’s average in play-offs of 2003: 9.4 pts 3.8 rebs
Hope you can remember something after that you Hooty “The Dumbest USA citizen in the world” B.
I’m pretty happy not being from same country with you.
nino Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 4:47 am
TD all the way!
Shaq has won with the most dominant guards in the post MJ era.
Penny, Kobe, Wade
Come on! Can you find any better guards than those guys in the past 10 years? Plus he was with them during their best years!
Shaq is the most physically gifted player in history! But he doesnt play any D unless really motivated. I wouldnt call that a great quality.
TD plays both ends of the court with far less athleticism and size and does well due to his work ethic and intelligence. Never a head case and rarely injured. Shaq even fakes injuries to avoid practice and some regular season games.
Hes more entertaining though!
The decade is not over yet but by 2010 it will be clearly TD’s decade when he wins at least 1 more title with defense and lesser stars.
Plus I love the fact that TD will always be a Spur and will share the limelight with his teammates unlike the Big Wanderer who will mope and dump his teams when the going gets tough! Thats Greatness?
Lastly, Shaq cant make free throws and never really bothered to improve on his foul shooting. Td still has free throw problems but has clearly worked hard to improve on this shooting as evidenced by his latest championship!
Kuestmaster Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 5:59 am
we can make a poll about who can we think is better, shaq or timmy
my vote goes to duncan
duncan 1
shaq 0
Kuestmaster Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 6:01 am
sorry I wanted to say about who we think is better.
Bajan Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 9:13 am
Duncan has never had anyone of Kobe’s skills to play with or even Hardaway’s before his injuries.
Robinson was at the end of the line an Kobe is a top 10 all time player and who has Duncan have of that caliber?
Shaq just pushed people around but really does he have any skills, he can’t even hit a free throw or make three dribbles in a row
la fan Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 10:27 am
Duncan over Shaq anytime, I’d love to see Tim in LA. Tim is a better player under the basket. In LA shaq’s toe hurt or the stomach thing, remember what Pat said to him before the season
Rashidi Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
“Anyone who thinks Wade carried Shaq in ‘06 is wrong. That’s like saying Tony Parker carried Duncan this year”
LOL not in the slightest.
2006 First Round
Wade: 24.7 ppg
Shaq: 19.8 ppg, 4.17 tpg, 4.2 fpg, .405 FT%
2006 Second Round
Wade: 27.8 ppg
Shaq: 18.6 ppg, 3.0 tpg, 3.6 fpg, .386 FT%
2006 Conference Finals
Wade: 26.7 ppg
Shaq: 21.7 ppg, 4.3 tpg, 3.2 fpg, .417 FT%
2006 Finals
Wade: 34.7 ppg
Shaq: 13.7 ppg, 3.1 tpg, 3.7 fpg, .290 FT%
Shaq just took a back seat? He wasn’t even in the same vehicle! To say his free throw shooting was a liability would be the understatement of the year, he turned the ball over like crazy, and his foul rate was such that he couldn’t stay on the court. Wade averaged 41.7 mpg in the playoffs. Shaq only averaged 33 minutes. How did Wade NOT carry them?
MattE. Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 12:31 pm
its been just over 10 years since Jordan was a playoff destoyer. i would say its even right now with shaq and Duncan. the first 5 years to shaq and since then its been all Duncan. if the Spurs repeat… then i would for sure say tim Duncan is the most domianate since Jordan. remember duncan is still in the West with better competetion.
Rashidi Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 12:41 pm
How does someone average 21 more points than the next player on his team and NOT be considered carrying them? Tony Parker averaged a whopping 6 more points than Duncan and you think there’s a comparison!?
“A healthy Shaq, who averaged 20.0 ppg adn 9.2 rpg in 05-06, could’ve repeated this year as a first-teamer, looking at Amare’s averages (20.4 ppg, 9.6 rpg) for 06-07.”
Except going by rhetoricals like that, a healthy Yao would have been the first team selection. And even if Shaq were healthy (which he has seldom been over his career anyway), what makes you think those numbers would have stayed the same when he is in the decline phase of his career?
“Another note, for you saying Shaq is declining,take a look at his field goal percentage. Since coming to Miami Shaq’s been a better “shooter” the last four seasons, shooting .601 (04-05), .600 (05-06) and .591 (06-07) in his three years with the Heat. That represents three of the best four seasons of his career, with the exception of 93-94 when he shot .599.”
Gee, it couldn’t POSSIBLY be because he’s taking easier shots now that he’s second fiddle. No, that couldn’t be it. The fact that he’s facing smaller competition out east? Naw that couldn’t be it either.
Of course, as you laud his FG%, it seems you ignore his FT% which has been at career lows and comically bad since he joined the Heat. 42% last year.
“So during his “prime” averaged over 20 and 10 each. And the year’s he supposedly “declined” he takes a struggling franchise and turns them into champions in two years while allowing Wade the chance to blossom by taking fewer shots”
1. The east sucks.
2. The Heat were pretty good before Shaq showed up. Thanks for proving Shaq is better than Lamar Odom.
3. The Heat added a lot more than Shaq.
4. How did they do in the playoffs this year?
“Except for the fact that Shaq blows away Duncan in head-to-head stats, which have been well-state above.”
It’s funny that you have only mentioned offensive stats. Shaq is a poor defender nowadays and was only average during his prime. Duncan controls a game on defense. Shaq was an offensive player who was really good at one thing (scoring in the paint). Duncan can score in a greater variety of ways that will aid him as he ages, and he is a top 3 defensive player in the league his entire career, something Shaq has NEVER been.
“Don’t let it be forgotten either that Shaq — and only Shaq — took out Jordan’s Bulls during their dynasty years from 1991-1998″
Oh please. He took out a rusty Jordan on the comeback trail, averaging 26 ppg and shooting 41% from the field (compared with 30 ppg and 49% shooting the following year) . The Bulls were not a championship level team that year. Shaq got swept by a 6th seed in the Finals anyway so what does that prove? (and what happened the following year when Jordan was back in playing form?)
Rashidi Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
“And for those using the supporting cast argument, remember Little Penny fizzled after Shaq bailed for L.A.”
Yeah, I’m sure Shaq told him on his way out that he should get 3-5 major surgeries for the fun of it.
“and Kobe is still trying to get out of the first round without Shaq.”
Shaq: Traded for Odom, Brian Grant, and Butler. Butler later traded with Chucky Atkins for KWAME BROWN.
Malone: Retired
Payton: Traded for Chucky Atkins and Chris Mihm
Atkins: Traded for Kwame, replaced with SMUSH PARKER
Mihm: Injured
Fisher: Signed with Warriors
Horace Grant: Retired
So the Lakers got Kwame Brown for Shaq, Malone, and Payton (3/5 of their 2005 starters) combined. Gee, I really wonder why they haven’t gotten out of the first round.
“And as good as Wade is, did you watch those guys at the beginning when the then-reigning Finals MVP was trying to carry the team.”
LOL so Shaq gets excuses up the wazoo for playing hurt, but Wade playing hurt, what a travesty
“With all that said, I vote for Shaq. He’s tied with Duncan in titles, but holds the edge when it comes to Finals apperances (six)”
When Duncan is a 15 year pro, he’ll have 6 Finals appearances (possibly even more). 6 in 15 years is not the same as 4 in 10. Just like 4 rings in 10 years is not the same as 4 rings in 15 years.
“and average-wise in points, rebounds and field-goal percentage. And as bad as some of you say his defense is, he still averages 2.4 blocks per game over his career. And, don’t forget, the best defense sometimes is a good offense.”
LOL, defense is A LOT more than blocking shots, just ask Mr. Bowen. Or perhaps, Shawn Bradley. To downplay the humongous advantage Duncan has on defense over Shaq, is well, MADNESS.
Reg Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 1:46 pm
Whether we’re talking about dominant or most consitent…in the end we’re trying to find out who’s better. If you’re starting a team tomorrow, which player would you choose first based on their careers as a whole. You’d have to choose Shaq. When Shaq was at his best you knew the Lakers were going to win the title. Nobody thought the Spurs could beat the Suns or the Mavs this year. I’m not so sure the Spurs would beat either of them in a 7 game series. I wouldn’t bet against them, but it’s not a guarantee they’d win either. If you transplant 2000 Shaq on this years Spurs team, the odds of them winning it all would go through the roof.
Gilt Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
SHAQ….
Duncan is consistent and has more of a fire than most peolpe credit him with. But Head to head and AND if they did match Prime Years to Prime Years Timmy would have a hard time denting the Diesel. I get real tired of people using the out ” SHAQ is no good he is just bigger and stronger”. Who cares. It is not a fould to be that big and there are plenty of other dudes in the league that would size up in his neighborhood as for Height and maaaaaybe weight. But guess what. They collect a check and wash out in a few years because there is more to the diesels game then power. His motivation and drive is what seperated him from Stanley Roberts, Benoit, Mark West, Armon Gilliam, Do I need to go on, all big powerful bodies with no Drive. The big man carried what 5 teams to the Title Series?????
I respect Tim and think he is going to keep you in the game but if not for a collapse by Irk Nowitki we are not even talking about this.
Shaun Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 4:01 pm
For any of you people who think Duncan is better than Shaq please open up your eyes. You seem to be forgetting that Shaq is 4 and a half years older than Duncan. Do you not remember when Shaq was his age the Lakers won 3 in a row. Shaq averaged 38 ppg and 17 rpg in the 2000 season, the 36ppg and 16 rpg in 2001, with 34 ppg and 16 rpg in 2002. Duncan never came close to this as he was put in a great position playing with Ginoibili , Parker, Robionson, Ellie and Horry who won them the 2005 championship verse Detroit. Although people say Duncan ismore consiostent, that is not even true. Shaq has been averaging over 25 ppg from the 94-95 season up until the 02-03 season where as Duncan has only had 1 season with 25 or more ppg. When Shaq was in his prime he was playing against the likes of Jordan, Olajuwon, Malone, Barkley. If Shaq was in hios prime right now he would have a minumum of 3 MVP awards. Please Seth Ferranti, you don’t know shit about basketball. Get your shit staright, aight buddy.
Shaun Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
For any of you people who think Duncan is better than Shaq please open up your eyes. You seem to be forgetting that Shaq is 4 and a half years older than Duncan. Do you not remember when Shaq was his age the Lakers won 3 in a row. Shaq averaged 38 ppg and 17 rpg in the 2000 championships, then 36ppg and 16 rpg in 2001 championships, with 34 ppg and 16 rpg in 2002 championships . Duncan never came close to this as he was put in a great position playing with Ginoibili , Parker, Robionson, Ellie and Horry who won them the 2005 championship verse Detroit. Although people say Duncan ismore consiostent, that is not even true. Shaq has been averaging over 25 ppg from the 94-95 season up until the 02-03 season where as Duncan has only had 1 season with 25 or more ppg. When Shaq was in his prime he was playing against the likes of Jordan, Olajuwon, Malone, Barkley. If Shaq was in hios prime right now he would have a minumum of 3 MVP awards. Please Seth Ferranti, you don’t know shit about basketball. Get your shit staright, aight buddy.
Shaun Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
For any of you people who think Duncan is better than Shaq please open up your eyes. You seem to be forgetting that Shaq is 4 and a half years older than Duncan. Do you not remember when Shaq was his age the Lakers won 3 in a row. Shaq averaged 38 ppg and 17 rpg in the 2000 championships, then 36ppg and 16 rpg in 2001 championships, with 34 ppg and 16 rpg in 2002 championships . Duncan never came close to this as he was put in a great position playing with Ginoibili , Parker, Robionson, Ellie and Horry who won them the 2005 championship verse Detroit. Although people say Duncan ismore consiostent, that is not even true. Shaq has been averaging over 25 ppg from the 94-95 season up until the 02-03 season where as Duncan has only had 1 season with 25 or more ppg. When Shaq was in his prime he was playing against the likes of Jordan, Olajuwon, Malone, Barkley. If Shaq was in hios prime right now he would have a minumum of 3 MVP awards. Please Seth Ferranti, you don’t know shit about basketball. Get your shit staright, aight buddy.
Look at this video: PLEASE!!!!!!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fw4_2bD6V4Q or go to youtube search Shaq living prroof, and click on the first video
Anthony Pearson Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 4:29 pm
Shaq has difinitely been better. Remember Shaq has the cornerstone no matter where he was. Shaq never had another Hall of Famer on the block him in his prime or not. Shaq has been to the Finals 6 times and won 4 rings. Shaq has also taken a beating does not get those calls you saw that Duncan received in the playoffs. Final is the reason for zone defense a wider lane. The two minute rule and countless other rules that effect the game. Most Dominat and the best are based on Winning and effect on game. Other than AI no one has effected the game more in the last 20 years then Shaq.
Mihajlo Moncilovich Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 6:30 pm
It’s a definitional issue. The question is “Who is the best player of the past decade?” Best player, not most dominant or unstoppable, does that mean better all-around skills or who has the better stats? What years are you using to define last decade? The previous ten or the ninety’s vs. 2000’s?
To keep it simple, their career stats are virtually identical, so regardless of how they achieved them, power vs, finesse, they both have the stats. Obviously Timmy is still in his prime and Shaq is on the downside but Shaq’s stats are consistent over the last fourteen years compared to Duncans nine. I don’t really see a distinction between the two other than their respective styles.
I’m sure if they came out of the same draft Shaq would have gone #1 but do you think the team drafting # 2 would have had any complaints?
tim Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 6:37 pm
shaq is also the most swept player in nba history. and hes fat.
Pishenis Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 7:05 pm
Both are the two most dominant players of the post-jordan era. I dont care who is better between both, whats important its that they are better than the rest of the league. If you want a title look for Shaq or Duncan (or surprise the world like the lone Piston title in 04)
sunny Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 8:33 pm
SHAQ = CRAZIEST PLAYER EVER ALIVE
ENOUGH SAID
Jax Said,
June 20, 2007 @ 9:45 pm
I would go for Shaq… to put it in an simple argument, Timmy had a better supporting cast compared to Shaq. It’s like Shaq did it all literally for his team to win Championships, Timmy had all the help he needed. When compared both in their prime, Timmy is not even close to the Diesel.
nino Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 1:08 am
Shaw is definitely more gifted but less devoted to his game.
Timmy is no shrimp at 260 lbs. 7 ft. either but does not have Shaq’s freaky athletism. But he makes up for it in timing, balance, and patience. My guess is that he would never have put up Shaq’s numbers even in his best years. But his consistency and refinement of his game will probably get him more titles because he is less demanding and will share the glory with other deserving players.
I’ll take the titles where his teams have been perfect in the finals. Superman got swept in the finals against Olajowon and looked meek against Ben Wallace. I guess those guys found his kryptonite.
Mr Highriser Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 1:32 am
we match the players with each other. this is wrong. what is important here is to compare their success. between 2000 and 2002 kobe was still kobe even though he wasn’t the best kobe but he was a still 25-5-5 guy. is there a 25-5-5 player in Spurs that can help TD? if i pick a player from the lottery considering the post-Jordan era, I’d pick either TD or Lebron. TD is an absolutely a winner and he can make any team a contender. Shaq could also make any team contender in his prime but he is not a winner as much as TD. as for personal stats, Shaq is surely better. but we all know that TD doesn’t care for the stats. if he cared for the stats he would definitely be a 25-15 guy every year. Look at his stats in the playoffs. He is in full throttle there. We should also consider that TD has a better defensive game and played far more regular season games. remember Shaq used to miss almost 20-30 games in regular season so that (probably) he could be ready for the playoffs but TD never escaped from the regular season. Shaq is more injury-prone, but I do have a respect for Shaq. Nobody can deny his accomplishments. all in all, in terms of team success TD is more dominant but in terms of personal stats Shaq get the node.
Hooty B Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 2:27 am
duncans a better defender huh?……
wow that is really amazing to hear. nobody in the history of basketball has had more players fear going up against an opponent more than shaq has (yes even jordan) and thats on both ends of the floor. like i mentioned earlier there are a lot of players that really fillup the stat sheets going up against duncan. duncan is a good defender but he doesnt shut his man out. very rarely do you get players that shut their man out but shaq has done it the majority of his career. oh and lets not forget to mention the times shaq was gaurding duncan hahahahahahaha duncan was lost. id like to see duncan guard shaq it would really be funny to see.
Hooty B Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 2:42 am
Onur Tuncaboylu dont get angry cuz you’re a dumb turk and your race is know for being dumb… you can talk about my mom all you want if thats what makes you happy… but back on the subject you are a moron and i can tell by your writing that your english is horrible so stop coming to american sites and go to your countries sports sites
you know like:
Sheep Racing
Rolling Tires down hills
Pin the dick on Onur Tuncaboylu’s face
etc.
so leave the subject of basketball to people that undersatnd what “D” stands for… and know its not dumbass “your middle name” its Defense, you know the thing that shaq is better at than duncan, among many other things.
Shaq will shit on duncans face if you matched them up in there primes… so for you guys that predict the future and say that duncan is going to continue to improve and never fade than lets all agree that that is speculation. (everybody fades)
inluding Onur Tuncaboylu’s brain cells when he tries to read in english.
Stupid Turk hahahahahaha
#1 Spurs Fan Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 2:54 am
I am a huge spurs fan and im so sorry but this is rediculous…
Duncan’s best years and moments do not come close to Shaqs. Duncan is awesome but he is definetely NO Shaquille Oneal and i have a tough time beleiving he ever will be.
Oh and Onur Tuncaboylu, Hooty B was right i read some of the things you wrote above and you really are an idiot.
Ivan Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 3:05 am
kd said:
“The Spurs werent even the best team from 1999-2003. HOw r they a dynasty. Shaq swpt them then came and beat them n five. The SPurs only beat them because shaq didnt get his surgery early.”
What?!?!?!? The Spurs were clearly the better team in 1999, sweeping the shit out of the Lakers. In 2000, I guess we’ll never know since Duncan was out injured. In 2001 and 2002, the Lakers really took it to the Spurs, but in 2003, the Spurs had enough of their drama and bookended that “so-called” dynasty.
Shaq didn’t get his surgery early?!?!? BULLSHIT. That was in October/November. We’re talking May when the Spurs humiliated the Lakers in 6. That was a Lakers team that had at least six players from the 3-peat (Shaq, Kobe, Fisher, Horry, Fox, and George). The fact is, in 2003, the Spurs were the better team and the hungrier team, and in 1999, the Spurs were THE DOMINANT team of the league, running roughshod over the competition to a 15-2 playoff mark, one of the greatest in league history.
If Tim Duncan wasn’t so unselfish and really wanted to, he could easily average 30 points and 15 rebounds. Anybody remember a 52-point performance he had against and up-and-coming Dallas team in 2000? If Duncan were on the Hawks, 30 ppg easy. But he doesn’t do it b/c he doesn’t have to. He’s in a unique position to win championships every year and has been blessed with great teammates in his time.
And for all those crybabies that whine about the ‘99 championship because of a shorter season, here’s this to ponder. The Spurs have had the best record in the NBA in these years:
1994-95: 62-20
1998-99: 37-13 (6-8 to start the season!)
2000-01: 58-24
2002-03: 60-22
So, as you can see, if you guys want to go by regular season stats, we’d be four-time champions just the same. Four times in nine years, ironically! HA!
Excuses are for losers. Whiners…
Hooty B Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 3:37 am
finally a smart man in the house…
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 4:58 am
Hooty B(What does B means, birdbrain?) check all the comments.
You are the only one who claims Shaq is better defender then Duncan.
All of these guys are wrong and you are the only one knows the truth. What a moron…
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 4:59 am
Sorry Hooty, but i should admit you something. You have semi Turk blood dude…
I tried not to say, because i promised your mother. But i couldn’t hide the truth anymore.
Me and your mother know each other very well. Your mother arrived to Turkey for vacation and we did something wrong…
Sorry dude, but i’m your father…
Son, i want to hug you…
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 5:44 am
By the way Hooty, my Englis is improving day to day. But what about you? You can learn English but you can’t get a new brain. And that’s what you need.
Francis Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 7:50 am
Let’s do this sytematically (during their primes)
Strength- Advantage Shaq. Fitness- Duncan. Speed and footwork- Duncan. Points- Shaq. Rebounds- Even. Steals- Duncan. Blocks- Even. Team Defense- Duncan. FT- Duncan. 3FG- Duncan. Inside Shot- Shaq. Mid-Range shot- Duncan. Clutch- Duncan. Team mentality- Duncan. MVP’s- 2 to 1 (Duncan). Finals MVP- 3 each. All Star MVP’s- 2 to 1 (Shaq). Agility- Duncan. Championships- 4 each.
Conclusion: Tim Duncan is the better player. Has never missed out on an All defenseive team selection, an all star game selection, All NBA team selection and never missed the playoffs since being with the Spurs, also being the foundation of the team with the best record of any professional American teams. Shaq is still an awesome player and there will surely be no one to eveer replace the Diesel. He’s a freak of an athlete for a man his size
Jason Newman Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 9:49 am
I’m taking exception with the very first post on this thread. Whether or not Shaq was a better player than Tim, he doesn’t do anything “without breaking a sweat.”
space Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 10:07 am
duncan looks better only because he is fresh off a championship. this really shouldn’t be a debate because duncan is NOT a center. the years that he did play at center he started getting hurt a lot.
shaq is a true center, and may have faced more double & triple teams than any player in league history. he got injured during his career from carrying extra weight and getting hacked night in and night out. duncan cannot say that.
and ONUR
comparing a 35 year old malone playoff line to duncan’s 27 year old in his prime is just plain wrong. malone was not even considered the 3rd offensive option eventhough he still had firepower, was in a new system in LA LA and had a significant injury throughout the playoffs. i’m disappointed guy. compare malone’s UTAH days to duncan if you do actually go there.
on garnett- always a bad coach, never good complimentary lineup, +marbury & wally are NBA team poison. the best lineup for garnett got him to the
oatmeal Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 11:49 am
The point about their defensive capabilities is actually pretty interesting. In Shaq’s first 10 years in the league he averaged over 2.8 blocks per game 5 times including two occasions with 3 and 3.5 per game. Timmy in his 10 years has surpassed 2.8 blocks per game only once (2.9) and never over 3. Thus the notion that Duncan is the better defender is somewhat spurious. Matched against Shaq,Garnett, Amare or even Nowitski he hardly seemed to “stop” any of them.
What Tim is on defense (just like offense) is fundamentally sound (positioning, footwork, rebounding) but if you factor in that Shaq blocked shots at a higher rate comparitively (in their first 10 years) and further factor that the intimidation factor TO THIS DAY is still heavily in Shaq’s favour then the obvious difference might not be that “obvious”.
As for the all defense team selections - tell me how many in a row Timmy would have strung together if he was listed as a center and not a forward. I think that since 98 names like Mourning, Mutombo and Wallace might have had something to say about that. Point being that because of his play in the post stats like blocks and rebounding would always favour him more over other “forwards”.
If some of you would look at the actual impact and effect of these players instead of how they looked getting that impact I am sure that this debate would have ended a long time ago.
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 11:59 am
Space, I couldn’t talk about my opinion about Ducan and Shaq, because of stupid Hooty.
I love Duncan too much, he is my favorite basketball player and idol. But i should say that, Shaq is more dominant guy than TD in offense. He has unbelievable phsyical advantage against Duncan. He’s 65 lbs hevier and more athletic than Duncan. He can dunk from baseline.
Despite of this fact, if i would make long term plan; i would choose Duncan. Why?
First reason is allegiance. He was Spur, he’s Spur and he will be Spur. But O’neal was Magic, then become Laker and now Heat. I would prefer Duncan as a franchise guy.
Second reason is being humble. Shaq has a great ego like his body. But we all know Duncan. Duncan doesn’t causes problem against his coach and teammates. But Shaq can.
And the last one: Longevity. Some guys are saying Shaq is playing long time in the league. Correct. But Shaq’s condition is about to finish, not much left in his tank. He’s 36 and he can’t keep his form more than 1 year. But if injuriries wouldn’t occur, Duncan can play until he’s 40. Because he’s a very smart guy and uses his energy very economical. He can score points without spending much energy and also he’s defending with basic moves. That’s why Shaq played 14 efficent years but Duncan can play 18.
I will not count defense as a reason. Despite Duncan is a better defender, Shaq can defend nearly as good as Duncan in play-offs. A 7-1 foot and 325 lbs body can defend anybody when he concentrate.
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
And SPACE answer to Malone and Garnett comparision of Duncan.
When i compare Duncan’s and Malone’s primes, Duncan is still one step ahead. Malone was a beast in the painted area, one of the best shooter from 15 feet. But not enough to catch Duncan. Duncan has much more bb IQ than Malone. He has a great court vision and he’s a better defender than Malone.
And Garnett. As i said before. Duncan played with unproved S-Jax, undrafted Bowen, rookie French point guard and a rookie Argentinian in 2003. This cast wasn’t worse than what Garnett have. Coachibng is a factor, agreed. But Billups couldn’t be a star while he was playing with Garnett. But Parker became Finals MVP while playing with Duncan. We all know that Billups can outplay Parker in one-on-one.
Could you get my point?
Hammond Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 12:59 pm
Very close call. if I had to pick 3 consecutive years of domination, I’d take Shaq. If I had to pick ten years of uninterrupted greatness, I’d go with duncan.
Shaq’s more entertaining, but also more prone to trouble. He couldn’t get along with Hardaway, and the relationship with Kobe is well documented. Duncan’s had to deal with a very volatile Stephen Jackson, a slightly out of control rookie In Ginobili, a young point guard Parker who didn’t like to pass, etc– and we’ve Never heard of a single problem or negative comment from Timmy’s mouth. That’s a decade of patience.
Duncan has never lost in the finals. Shaq got swept by Hakeem and shocked by Detroit. The same Detroit team lost to Duncan’s Spurs the following year.
i love Shaq, but I do feel that he underachieved. During the Laker threepeat, Shaq had arguably the best perimeter player in the league in Kobe as his teammate. Duncan’s never had that. His best teammate David Robinson was at the end of his career and past his prime. Duncan’s never had a D Wade.
Shaq was famous for starting the nba season out of shape and working himself into shape as the season progressed. I dunno– if your employer is paying you 15 million a year, the least you could do is stay in shape. Shaq’s excess weight has probably contributed to his numerous injury problems.
Shaq has 4 rings in 12 years, Duncan has 4 rings in 10.
Close call. Who’s more likely to win next year? Gotta say Duncan, and so I’ll say overall career edge to Duncan.
Patrick Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
It has to be Shaq. Those three years of pure dominance were at the expense of Duncan and his “dynasty.” The Lakers owned the Spurs when Shaq was at his strongest. Duncan has never owned anyone the way Shaq owned the entire NBA while he ran the Lakers.
Jacob Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 2:27 pm
its duncan… first off shaq has had more years to win more rings but they are equal. and if the spurs aren’t flashy enough to dominate, go take a look at the patriots and tell me they aren’t dominating even tho they won 3 superbowls of a combined 9 points(or something around there)
this is rediculous we are praising the what ifs of shaq, duncan works hard all the time where as shaq is now becoming the roger clemens of basketball…
duncan can do more like shoot, pass, defend instead of just using a 300 lb frame to toss people. thats not basketball its wrestling
reveline Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 3:00 pm
I say Shaq, because he dominated his opponents. And, like another writer said, he demolished Tim and Duncan when they played in the Western Conference Finals when he was in LA. Plus, although he only has 4 rings let’s not forget that he took a young, “rag tag”, inexperienced bunch to the NBA Final in Orlando that lost, and also the Karl Malone, Gary Payton team that linked into the Finals against the Pistons in 2004. That makes Shaq 4-2 in NBA Finals. Tim still needs to make it there 2 more times to get consideration.
reveline Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
To be honest, this comparison is almost disrespectful to Shaq. His numbers are so much better than Duncan’s. Shaq has been in the league 5 years longer than Duncan, but has played in only 3 season’s more games (approx. 240). However, his numbers are 5 seasons greater than Duncan’s. And, let’s not forget that when he was young he was playing against Hakeem, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Alonzo Mourning, Dikembe Mutombo, Arvydas Sabonis, Sam Perkins, Kevin Willis and Brad Daugherty.
space Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
true enough Onur. if i were looking for instant success and a big ticket draw i would take shaq, but over a longer haul i might go for tim for a stability and team continuity sake. its a great debate. apples and oranges though.
LordHavMercy Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 4:59 pm
SHAQUILLE ONEAL Hands down. Simply because they had to change the rules in order for you to defend him. They put the Zone in the league because of his dominance. In addition, Shaq is absolutely the toughest player in NBA history to officiate. The guy makes ordinary moves and huge men are barrelled over and is called for offensive fouls as a result. Ben Wallace is allowed to literally push the guy off of the block and there is no foul called. I would like to see Big Ben play Duncan as physical as he does Shaq. He would foul out by the first tv time out.
Head to Head I think that shaq has the upper hand. I guess all you can go by are numbers and in the finals Shaq’s numbers are extraordinary. Duncans are very solid but Shaq can roll outta bed and get 40 and 20 in a finals game.
LordHavMercy Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 5:02 pm
Why is Duncan considered a power foward anyway? Is it because when he came into the league he played next to David Robinson. Tim Duncan is a center. 7 feet and usually the biggest guy on the court if not on the court on his team and they consider him a power forward. Why??
Hammond Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 6:42 pm
You guys are forgetting something in this analysis. The Spurs won their first title in 1999, but in 2000, Duncan didn’t play in the playoffs because of a knee injury. Phoenix beat the spurs in the first round 3-1. In 2001, the Lakers swept the Spurs, dominating them. In 2002, the lakers beat them again, but Duncan scored more points and pulled down more rebounds than Shaq in this series. In 2003, The Spurs beat the Lakers 4-2, including a game 6 rout.. Since this time, Shaq’s gotten one more ring and Duncan’s gotten two. Shaq and the Lakers were clearly the best in 2001, but that’s it. Duncan, who’s most prolific teammate in 2002 was a young Stephan Jackson (compare that to Kobe), was statistically the strongest performer in the 2002 playoffs.
Hammond Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
And so if you think the Spurs deserve an asterisk for any of their titles, then you have to agree that the 2000 title for the lakers needs one too, since the best player on the defending champs was unavailable due to injury. Now, answer this: if Shaq gets injured and can’t play in the 2001 playoffs, do the Lakers repeat? No way! if that had been the case, then the Lakers would’ve had two titles and no repeats, much less impressive than the Spurs having four titles and no repeats.
Hammond Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
Numbers for the 2002 playoff series, in which Shaq “dominated” Duncan:
Shaq: 107 pts (21.4 per game) 61 rebounds (12.2 per game)
Duncan 145 pts (29 per game) 86 rebounds (17.2 per game)
Hammond Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
Numbers for the 2002 playoff series, in which Shaq “dominated” Duncan:
Shaq: 107 pts (21.4 per game) 61 rebounds (12.2 per game)
Duncan 145 pts (29 per game) 86 rebounds (17.2 per game)
Hammond Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
Stats for 2003 L.A. vs San Antonio playoff series
Shaq: 152 pts (25.3 ppg) 86 rebounds (14.3 rpg)
Duncan 168 pts (28 ppg) 71 rebounds 10.8 rpg)
Dre Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 10:28 pm
Shaq had diffculties WINNING early in his career (series sweeps over his Magic and Lakers) while Timmy has pretty much been consistently giving the Spurs the W throughout the years, has always been a perennial favorite and made them the winningest team in the last few years in all major sports. One of Shaq’s first title came when Duncan was out for the lost series against the Suns that year and will always have an asterisk because of that.
Shaq dominated his defenders with his one-dimensional power moves early in his career and has had difficulties using the same moves the last two years because of lack of progression. TD has a wider array of moves which allows him to shoot from 17 feet. TD shoots the jumper AND can use two hands to do so. Has anybody seen Shaq shoot with two hands (especially the last 2 years) aside from the FT line?
Sha
Dre Said,
June 21, 2007 @ 10:35 pm
Shaq had diffculties WINNING early in his career (series sweeps over his Magic and Lakers) while Timmy has pretty much been consistently giving the Spurs the W throughout the years, has always been a perennial favorite and made them the winningest team in the last few years in all major sports. One of Shaq’s first title came when Duncan was out for the lost series against the Suns that year and will always have an asterisk because of that.
Shaq dominated his defenders with his one-dimensional power moves early in his career and has had difficulties using the same moves the last two years because of lack of progression. TD has a wider array of moves which allows him to shoot from 17 feet. TD shoots the jumper AND can use two hands to do so. Has anybody seen Shaq shoot with two hands (especially the last 2 years) aside from the FT line?
Shaq’s passing is overrated. He makes the pass when he is double teamed (which should be done afterall). TD’s passing is underrated since his passing actually creates a natural offensive flow and is part of the system.
During his title runs, Shaq had/has a dominant scorer wingman (Kobe and D-Wade). Tim MADE his TEAM dominant, making each player lethal in their respective position.
Shaq cant rebound, defend. Tim - 1st NBA All Defensive Team. Nuff said.
Individually, Shaq is the more dominant player, perhaps the best player in his position to score at will. Tim is the more dominant TEAM BASKETBALL player, doing more than just scoring.
But Shaq can rap better. I’ll give him that.
Eduardo's Way Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 12:37 am
I like both Shaq and Duncan. Of course both have four championship rings and three Finals MVP’s to themselves. Both has or had good supporting cast and take over guys like Wade and Parker respectively. Here is one thing that no one has brought up: what if Shaq didn’t have the drama with dealing with Kobe. I think Kobe by his immaturity and selfishness cost Shaq defintely two titles. I like Duncan but he benefits because of the guy in charge. Everybody knows that Gregg Popovich runs the show in San Antonio. To Duncan’s credit, Popovich has free reign to openly critize Duncan in front of everyone. What I am saying that Duncan is more coachable. Because of that I think Shaq on the other hand dealt with more drama because sometimes the Lakers didn’t know was really in charge. Basically Jerry Buss lets his son Jim Buss basically take over the team. In time Jerry West leaves because he doesn’t believe in the philosophy that Jim Buss employes. If you factor in that along with Kobe Bryant’s power struggle which is now coming back to haunt him. I don’t think that Tim Duncan could walk one mile in Shaq’s shoes. Because Shaq was the most dominant player in the NBA for a period of time and most feared while dealing with drama, Shaq wins this argument. Also at times it seemed like Duncan was imitidated by Shaq earlier in his career.
philwil Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 2:50 am
this is a joke!!! Shaq on his worst night!!! Dunkans #’s dont compare to Shaqs and shaq’s lakers beat dunkans spurs 3 out of 4 times they played in the playoffs.
Nappyone Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 4:24 am
Im sorry. But Shaq is the most feared player of this generation. He dominated everyone that tried to guard him. Teams had to focus on just slowing Shaq down. Teams dont focus on doing that to Duncan. They focus on stopping Parker and Ginobli. Duncan is one of the most fundamental players of all time. But who cares. Shaq made everyone around him better as well. He cant shoot free throws. but last time I checked, Duncan is sporatic. And as far as being the greatest PF of all-time. He’s a center playing PF. Give me a break. If he’s so great defensively. Why was Rasho Nesterovic guarding Shaq instead of the great Duncan. Even now, with Shaq in the twilight of his career. Duncan wants no part of him. Yet Shaq still guards him. I play ball. Usually thats a sign that a player is scared of his opponent. So Shaq is the man. Never again will we see someone who changed rules in the N.B.A. Hell just look at their career stats. Shaq has the edge. Record for F.G. % leader in consecutive seasons. Duncan isnt ever in the top 15. So id rather have a guy who makes 60% of his Fg. Duncan is great. But theres really no comparison. Hell i think i seen 6′7 Shawn Marion Guarding him on quite a few occasions. You didnt see him anywhere near Shaq. Shaq is the most dominant big man in history period. I would love to see him against Wilt. Its a fantasy but. I believe Shaq would put them thangs on him
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 7:09 am
philwil Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 2:50 am
this is a joke!!! Shaq on his worst night!!! Dunkans #’s dont compare to Shaqs and shaq’s lakers beat dunkans spurs 3 out of 4 times they played in the playoffs.
You’re wrong dude. Duncan swept Shaq in 1999 and beat 4-2 in 2003( After that he routed to the ring both of these years.)
Shaq swept Duncan in 2001, 4-1 in 2002 and 4-2 in 2004.
The score is 3-2 for Shaq. But the last one has an asterisk: He did it by the help of Payton, Kobe and Malone.
Nick Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 7:21 am
SHAQ for sure. The NBA was tougher back then. Spurs cruised this year. Only good team they played was suns and we all know the story there. screw you horry! + id like to add that duncan is an uncharasmatic bore. he is asuch a sook. whats the deal with his eys poppin out of his head every call. he also talks like a fag. Shaq is the man and would ABUSE duncan is his prime. Lakers would also probably beat Spurs 4-2 in a series. ps Bruce bowen is dirtiest player in NBA
Nick Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 7:23 am
also the spurs only had to beat Knicks the 8th seeds and this year only the cavs. not much competition you must admit. once again I HATE YOU DUNCAN. pansy ass turd
Air23 Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 7:40 am
The way I look at it is shaq won 3 rings in a row where tim only has won it one year at a time. So you could look at stats and they both shoot bad from the line they both shoot 50% or better from the field. The big thing is tha tim never got around banged like Shaq did You know the hack a shaq. So the 3 rings in a row Shaq by far.
oatmeal Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 9:12 am
This blog has become very repetitive mainly because persons are not addressing points made by others and just spewing opinion based on “who they preferred to see”. Offensively it wasn’t close so people want to quickly move to “defense”, however the DEFENSIVE IMPACT was practically the same regardless of Duncan’s All Defensive Selections which he garnered under the general catergory of “FORWARD”. Peak years goes to Shaq too….so we conveniently jump to team support. Not a single person has addressed the fact that in the last two of Duncan’s Championships he beat Ginobili by 1 vote for MVP in 2005 and Parker beat him out this year. Plus no one wants to address the fact that whereas Timmy was consistent he did have a “ceiling”….in the early part of this decade Shaq was making 40 and 20 games almost routine in the playoffs.
Useless talk about Shaq and his weight….during the 3peat he played in more games than Bryant regular season and playoffs. Even with foul trouble Shaq was among the league leaders in minutes played AND up till now has only missed 2 playoff games….2!!!!!
I challenge anyone on this board to name me one 7ft 350 pound player in NBA history that kept themselves in the so called “better condition” than Shaq. He is being compared to Jordan and Pippen and Kobe when none of you on this list have any idea what it even takes for a man of that size to play one NBA season much less 15. Where are all the better conditioned players from the 92 draft?
Somehow Shaq is to be discredited for his size advantage, but not Magic for his size advantage or Iverson for his speed advantage or Jordan for his leaping ability and athleticism.
I suppose Timmy was better than Kareem too since Kareem ONLY utilised the sky hook on offense and Timmy has an “array” of moves.
Lets face it in any other era…..Duncan (6ft 11in), Webber (6ft10in 250ponds), Garnett and Nowitski would all have been centers aiming to revolutionise the position…..but some how in this era none of them decided to bulk up and play in the post….coincidence…..I think not.
Virtually unstoppable players in NBA history: Wilt, MJ, Shaquille O’Neal…..you people need to respect history.
And finally for those with the nonsense about Shaq’s limited game you need ESPN classic and in a hurry….but if you don’t have the time just flip back one year and tell me who that was stealing a ball at midcourt from Richard Hamilton (a guard) and dribbling the length of the court for a layup in the ECF AT THE AGE OF 34!!!!!!
Wilt said it best “Nobody roots for Goliath” and just like Wilt…..Shaq will never be truly appreciated until he finally lays down the ball a few years from now and then without team bias, favourite player bias or style bias maybe folks would just look back and say: “Man we will never see anything like that again”.
josh liddy Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 10:16 am
this debate was clearly broken down a couple weeks ago via body of work and statistical domination…
the nod CLEARLY goes to shaquille…
duncan is great but you gotta be kidding me lol.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_22299.shtml
Hammond Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 11:22 am
oatmeal– you talk about “most unstoppable players” and don’t even mention Bill Russell! 11 rings! Offense is more mesmerizing, but defense has to be considered when talking about a championship player as Unstoppable. Advantage, Duncan.
I do not in any way deny Shaq’s greatness, but if you read my other posts, you will see by the numbers that Duncan outplayed shaq in the playoffs in 2002. Add to this the fact that everybody seems to be forgetting– Duncan sat out the 2000 playoffs with a knee injury– and my point is the only year Shaq arguably outplayed Duncan is 2001, a series where Kobe, not Shaq, led the Lakers in scoring. Do you remember the name of the small forward starting game one of the playoffs for the Spurs that year? Danny Ferry! The Spurs backcourt that year– a just about to retire Terry Porter and a young Antonio Daniels! Compare that to Derek Fisher in his prime and Kobe! Duncan’s very weak team was beaten by an extraordinaryly strong Laker team led by Shaq. Couple this with the fact that Duncan has played in a slow-down, low-scoring system his entire career which naturally lowers his scoring and rebound averages. Duncan has accomplished everything Shaq has, but he has done it in a shorter period of time and with less talent.
Another issue: weaknesses. Duncan’s greatest weakness is his free-throw shooting. His career FT% is 68%. Shaq’s is 52%. Shaq from outside of 6 ft is an offensive liability. Duncan’s 10 foot bank shot is virtually unstoppable.
Finally, this assertion I’ve read a few times in this blog that Shaq routinely had 40 pt/ 20 reb games in the playoffs is simply not true. i just went back and poured over the stats from 2001-2004. He had no games like that–zero– against the Spurs at all, and very few otherwise.
This debate will go on forever, just like Russell vs Wilt, Magic vs Bird, etc. I’m glad it will because it’s good for basketball.
Hammond Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
nappyone– Field goal percentage is one of the most suspect stats around– last year, Erick Dampier led the NBA in that catagory. Erick Dampier…
Jordan, Russell, Hakeem, Magic– none of these guys ever led the league in FG%. Shaq never shoots from outside of 6 feet, so of course his percentage is high. As the Spurs proved this year with their suffocation of LeBron, lack of outside shooting will always be a shortcoming.
When the Lakers lost to the Pistons in the finals, Shaq was primarily guarded by Ben Wallace, who is listed as 6′9″, and who badly outrebounded Shaq in that series. Pistons won decisively 4-1. The very next year, Duncan’s Spurs beat the same Piston Team 4-3 in a series which saw Duncan outrebound Big Ben 99-72.
Duncan’s best sidekick that year: Ginobili. Shaq’s: Kobe. In 2001 and 2002, basketball fans were debating wheather or not Kobe was the best player in the league and Shaq himself was saying Kobe should be MVP. Duncan never had a team-mate that was even under consideration for MVP. Robinson was in the early and mid 90s, but by the time Tim arrived he was past his prime.
Hammond Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 1:06 pm
reveline– My response to your points: Shaq’s 4-2 record in the Finals in more impressive than Duncan’s 4-0? I just don’t see it. As a young player, Shaq got swept by Houston while a young Duncan lead his team to a 4-1 victory over the Knicks. In 2004, Shaq’s lakers lose to the Pistons 4-1. The next year, Duncan leads the Spurs in defeating the exact same Piston team 4-3.
You list guys Shaq played against: Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Mutombo, Sabonis, Sam Perkins, Brad Daugherty, Kevin Willis…
Duncan’s opponents: Garnett, Nowitski, Yao, Malone, Webber(in his prime), Rasheed Wallace(in his prime)…. You know what? This one I agree with you on– Hakeem and the Admiral are a step up on Garnett and Dirk. But add in he fact that the young Duncan had to deal with the veteran Shaq and that evens things out a bit.
Totally Off Topic: Greatest Injustice Regarding Hall of Fame: No Artis Gilmore!
This is a crime. The A Train has to be in there.
reveline Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
First, Oatmeal your post gave me a lump in my throat thinking about the game without Shaq. You’re right. Wilt did say it best. “No one roots for Goliath.” Because of his size, nobody will give him the credit that he deserves. By all rights his numbers could have been much greater had he not had injuries that kept him out for 15-20 a season since 1999-2000. In 2000-01 he played in 74 games, and 2004-2005 he played in 73 games. But less than 70 games in all the rest of the years from 2000-2007.
Hammond I will concede the “head to head” numbers that you posted. And I will give you your off topic remarks about Artis Gilmore, because his numbers were great, too. However, when I compare these guys I don’t compare what they did (supposed) to each other when they played because Duncan rarely guarded Shaq. Shaq’s overall (career) regular season and playoff numbers dwarf those of Duncan. Shaq has been around 5 years longer than Duncan, but it will take Duncan another 8-10 years to achieve Shaq’s numbers.
The point that I was trying to make with my NBA Finals record post was the fact that Shaq has been there more times.
Another problem with the comparison is that people are comparing these guys based on where they both were now, 2, 3 or 4 years ago. That’s not a fair comparison. They should be compared in their primes, then complete career.
Since people like numbers, lets look at their best 5 regular seasons points and their worst 5.
Shaq - Best: 29.7, 29.3, 29.3, 28.7, 28.3 Avg. = 29.06
Duncan - Best: 25.3, 23.3, 23.2, 22.3, 22.2 Avg. = 23.26
Shaq - Worst: 17.3, 20.0, 21.5, 22.9, 23.4 Avg. = 21.02
Duncan - Worst: 18.6, 20.0, 20.3, 21.1, 21.7 Avg. = 20.34
Now lets look at their best 5 playoff points and their worst 5.
Shaq - Best: 30.7, 30.5, 30.4, 28.5, 27.0 Avg. = 29.42
Duncan- Best: 27.6, 25.8, 24.7, 24.4, 23.8 Avg. = 25.26
Shaq - Worst: 18.4, 18.8, 19.4, 20.7, 21.5 Avg. = 19.76
Duncan - Worst: 20.7, 22.1, 22.2, 23.2, 23.6 Avg. = 22.72
Shaq’s best regular seasons are much better than Duncan’s as are his best playoffs. But, even his worst regular seasons are better than Duncan’s worst. The only comparison that Duncan wins is worst playoffs. But even that’s not a completely accurate guage because there is a much smaller sampling for Duncan.
Since Duncan seemed to peak earlier than Shaq, let’s compare them at Duncan’s prime - ages 24, 25 and 26. (Based on playoff numbers)
Duncan’ Regular Season Averages: 22.2, 25.2, 23.3
Shaq’s Regular Season Averages: 26.2, 28.3, 26.3
Duncan’s Playoff Averages: 24.4, 27.6, 24.7
Shaq’s Playoff Averages: 26.9, 30.5, 26.6
This shows that at comparable ages Shaq’s numbers are better. Duncan seemed to peak early and his prime only lasted 3 years. Shaq peaked at 25 instead of 24, and his prime lasted 6 years instead of just 3. If we based Shaq’s peak on his regular season numbers, then Shaq basically came into the league at his peak and it lasted 10 years.
I’m sorry, but give me Shaq over Duncan. I don’t want to be condescending to the players were on Shaq’s Championship teams, but if Shaq had played his entire career in San Antonio and not have to deal with Penny Hardaway’s and Kobe’s drama he would have 10 rings instead of just 4.
I SAID IT! SO WHAT?
Theodoros Plakadopoulos Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
shaq dominated after all those great pivots retired
and duncan played against dominant shaq so those even out
Olajuwon vs Shaq
it showed skill is better than hitting the buffet
Young Duncan won, Young Shaq didn’t
give Duncan kobe or penny and call it a dynasty tplay
shaq’s last 2 years with the lakers: lost to duncan, lost to ben wallace
numbers change every year and you wouldn’t criticize Bill Russell, Magic, or Isiah for not scoring more would you?
If you want someone who will win an eating contest: Shaq
but an NBA Championship: Duncan by a mile(coincidentally, shaq’s waist measurement)
Any GM in the NBA Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
Here’s the thing that everyone that picked shaq doesnt realize…Its not about who did better head to head…Full length career wise it is no question Duncan…he is the perfect player even though I hate watching him, because he is too good at the rules of the game….he is a far better teammate, and probably easier to work with within the organization…If I am a GM and these 2 are in the same draft, knowing what I now know, I cant see how you would pick shaq if you are thinking about the next 15 years…not the best 5 year span within that 15 years
Becton D Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 6:24 pm
Everyone would agree that Duncan is more skilled than Shaq, however Shaq is an unstoppable force down low. No one man could stop Shaq in his hay day. I’d add Kobe to the debate, I think three players are alone at the top of the heap. But if I had to choose one guy to build a franchise around during their prime it would have to be Shaq.
Hammond Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 6:30 pm
reveline– That’s it man! Let’s go in the alley and fight!!
Your stats are all good and legit. Again, I want to repeat, i am not a Shaq hater. i love his game, his personality, his sense of humor,… everything about the guy is cool with me. Stats are great, but I’ll still take Russell over Wilt, Pippen over Dominique, and Duncan over Shaq. Plus, Shaq played on more up-tempo teams, so it makes sense that his stats are higher.
I’M EATING A GRILLED CHEEE SANDWICH RIGHT NOW! CHECK ME OUT!
Hammond Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 6:31 pm
Gotta commend you on the research though…
Eric Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 7:19 pm
Please get it straight, Duncan is not the best power forward of all-time. I know everybody is all hyped up after Duncan has just gotten a fourth championship, but let’s not throw Karl Malone and the other great 4’s off the ship…
Raheem Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 8:51 pm
In his prime Shaq was the most feared played of his time. Everyone is throwing out stats, but i think the thing that makes an NBA star into a legend is not numerical. It is the intangibles that truely make a star a legend. Duncan may be a great, consistent player, but does anyone fear duncan. Does anyone think twice before driving to the lane on Duncan? I know for a fact that player used to fear Shaq. The fact that you have a man that big and strong in the lane makes your team defense so much better than it should be. Thats point one: People feared Shaq.
Secondly, when shaq joined the lakers. In the first year upon his arrival, Kobe’s ppg went up 8 points as well.. And Shaq’s ppg did not drop. They rose. Wade’s numbers jump 8 points upon the arrival of Shaq. I think the shear presence of Shaq allowed his team makes to be so much better. I dont think a Tim duncan on the Lakers would have been as dominating of a team, same with Miami. Although Tim is a great player. Shaq is a legend. Shaq is in a league of his own. And Shaq may be on the slow down, but when does 17.3 ppg and 7.4 rpg count as declining. I mean for being in the league for 14 years, I have to say. That really isnt bad at all. That is better than most of the league. Duncan is great. Duncan is a star, but Shaq is a legend.
Ivan Said,
June 22, 2007 @ 9:54 pm
oatmeal said: “Where are all the better conditioned players from the 92 draft?”
Robert Horry is still going at it, as is Dikembe “I have eight total names” Mutombo!
Tommie Said,
June 23, 2007 @ 12:09 am
I say Shaq he would have more rings if not for Jordan where as Duncan in the non Jordan era has the same amount as Shaq. Shaq is the baddest man on the court and he will always be viewed as better then Duncan head to head. Duncan is great in his own right but Shaq is a little bit better.
Coleman, M Said,
June 23, 2007 @ 7:58 am
A head to head comparison of Shaq to Duncan is like comparing David Robinson to Shawn Kemp, or comparing Kareem Abdul Jabbar to Buck Williams, or comparing Otis Thorpe to Brad Daugherty, or comparing apples to oranges… or even comparing MIchael Jordan to Dominque Williams. It is foolish because they each play different positions which require different skill sets. Shaq is a pure center, and against other pure centers in his time he did not fair real well … ie. Hakeem Olajuwan, David Robinson, A. Sabonis, A. Mourning, Patrick Ewing… because he could never win a title when they were around. Now that the real centers are gone and all you have are power forwards playing the center position… yeah, he is the best center now. Duncan played power forward in college and in the pros along side David Robinson, Kevin McHale played power forward along side Robert Parish when he first came into the league, Big Wallace came into the league playing power forward and so on…. just because these player are versatile enough to play center now out of necessity, that does not mean they are a true centers. Jack Sigma and Amare Stoudamire have always played center, but anybody who know basketball should know that they were (Jack) and are (Amare) natural power forwards. And… if you think Jack and Amare played and plays a good center, I submit to you they would be unstoppable in their natural power forward position. Therefore, Shaq is the most dominate center now playing against power forwards in the low post, but when he had real centers to play against… they clobbered him every time for the championship trophy.
Kobesuxs Said,
June 23, 2007 @ 8:44 am
I just did a video on YouTube (my URL) about the Spurs. I love the Diesel, but Timmy D. is right there with him now. Guess we’ll have to see how their careers end up.
Kobesuxs Said,
June 23, 2007 @ 8:45 am
Oops. I guess you have to click on my name to see the video. My bad.
anonymous Said,
June 23, 2007 @ 8:54 am
SHAQ: 1) 7′ 1″, 370 lbs., slow, lazy, suspect work habits, dubious MBA degree, poor ft%- can’t close out games, no clue on how to defend pick and roll, relies on physical mass to dominate rather than skill level, no midrange game (DUNK,DUNK,and more DUNKS), friendly with media guys, provides material as fodder for sports talk programs consumption, and invites leeches and wannabes to his private parties.
DUNCAN: 1) 6′ 11″, 260 lbs., lean, relatively quick for a big man, excellent b-ball insticts, outstanding low post defender, relies on sheer skill and superior I.Q. to score in the low post, ultimate team player, does not ask for EDDIE JONES OR NICK VAN EXEL TO BE TRADED, MVP MVP MVP, ultimate team player, better husband, father and human being.
Coleman Said,
June 23, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
A head to head comparison of Shaq to Duncan is like comparing David Robinson to Shawn Kemp, or comparing Kareem Abdul Jabbar to Buck Williams, or comparing Otis Thorpe to Brad Daugherty, or comparing apples to oranges… or even comparing MIchael Jordan to Dominque Williams. It is foolish because they each play different positions which require different skill sets. Shaq is a pure center, and against other pure centers in his time he did not fair real well … ie. Hakeem Olajuwan, David Robinson, A. Sabonis, A. Mourning, Patrick Ewing… because he could never win a title when they were around. Now that the real centers are gone and all you have are power forwards playing the center position… yeah, he is the best center now. Duncan played power forward in college and in the pros along side David Robinson, Kevin McHale played power forward along side Robert Parish when he first came into the league, Big Wallace came into the league playing power forward and so on…. just because these player are versatile enough to play center now out of necessity, that does not mean they are a true centers. Jack Sigma and Amare Stoudamire have always played center, but anybody who know basketball should know that they were (Jack) and are (Amare) natural power forwards. And… if you think Jack and Amare played and plays a good center, I submit to you they would be unstoppable in their natural power forward position. Therefore, Shaq is the most dominate center now playing against power forwards in the low post, but when he had real centers to play against… they clobbered him every time for the championship trophy.
Nickjet Said,
June 23, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
Wow!! Shaq didn’t win anything while all those GREAT CENTERs played. The was not just great during Shaq’s era….BUT is right there in TOP 5 of “all Time” Russel, Will, Karem playmates. So lets check, Olajuwan won 2 rings, one against a young Shaq. BUT here’s the kicker both when that guy MJ was masquerading as BaseBaller.
No1 won anything during MJ’s reign…that not all on SHAQ. But even this those guys around he did make it the finals. Check Shaq numbers even in those days he was putting up numbers…simply ni1 stopped him. Defensively yeah, he got especially frm dream as much as he gaved and then some.
How many final DR went to without TD ? I think the MOST important “what if” is HOW MANY FINALS would Timmy get to without POP & that let’s face CHAMIONSHIP system in SA…Few GREAT big men would not win in that organisation. But in our time only ONE FREAK of a big man, has gotten it where ever he went. Some say he never played in one city….flip that, he took three cities to the big dance, none of them have returned ‘yet’ since he left, infact has any gotten out of the first round, take a bow Kobe…… that sometime Timmy will never have on his great great resume. And any crazy to think that TD would fair any better than Shaq did matched up with those centers….TD size is a clear advantage when listed as a PF, so lets not kid ourself, that he wouldn’t make all Def every yr if positioned as center. And while timmy was learning a thing or two frm David, Shaq was teaching us all..what a 7ft+ Monster and do & damn he did it well. Let compare the 2012 TD to the now shaq……different stories i bet.
Nickjet Said,
June 23, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
Wow!! Shaq didn’t win anything while all those GREAT CENTERs played. The DREAM was not just great during Shaq’s era….BUT is right there in TOP 5 of “all Time”. Russel, Wilt, Karem, they all playmates. So lets check, Olajuwan won 2 rings, one against a young Shaq. BUT here’s the kicker both when that guy MJ was masquerading as BaseBaller.
No1 won anything during MJ’s reign…that not all on SHAQ. But even with those guys around he did make it to the finals. Check Shaq numbers even in those days he was putting up numbers 20/10s…..simply no1 stopped him. Defensively, yeah he got especially frm d dream as much as he gave and then some.
How many finals DR went to without TD.so u are supposed to question how gr8 he was ? I think the MOST important “what if” is HOW MANY FINALS would Timmy get to without POP & let’s face it, that CHAMIONSHIP system in SA…Few GREAT big men would not win in that organisation and we all agree TD is a GREAT. But in our time only ONE FREAK of a big man, has gotten it done where ever he went. Some say he never played in one city….flip that, he took three cities to the big dance, none of them have returned ‘yet’ since he left, infact has any gotten out of the first round, take a bow Kobe…… that something Timmy will never have on his great great resume.
And any1 wud b crazy to think that TD would fair any better than Shaq did matched up with those centers….TD size is a clear advantage when listed as a PF, so lets not kid ourself, he wouldn’t make all Def every yr if positioned as center. And while timmy was learning a thing or two frm David, Shaq was teaching us all..what a 7ft+ Monster and do & damn he did it well. Let’s compare the 2012 TD to the now shaq……different stories i bet. Even without the fact that Shaq hd to get out of the blocks with MJ still in the house…
over & out.
anonymous Said,
June 23, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
IT’S WILKINS!
Ivan Said,
June 23, 2007 @ 10:52 pm
reveline said:
“Duncan seemed to peak early and his prime only lasted 3 years.”
WTF?!?!? Duncan is STILL in his prime. The problem is he’s too unselfish, and he now has two all-stars (Ginobili and Parker) beside him. OK, maybe TD has lost a step and doesn’t really contest shots the way he used to when he first came into the league, but he’s probably at the tail end of his prime. Considering Duncan won his first and second MVP trophies in his fifth and sixth years, respectively, he was at his prime for at least six years, not three. In all honesty, Duncan showed during this playoff run (minus the Cavs series) that he is the best all-around and low-post player in the game today. Last season, he was hobbled by plantar facsiitis, and he still got better as the playoffs went on, dropping 41 on Dallas in Game 7 of the Western Conference semifinals.
All in all, Duncan’s prime has lasted more than three years. To say otherwise is outrageous and rediculously stupid. Why do the fans STILL vote him in to the all-star game if he’s so passed his prime? Why is he a perennial MVP candidate each year? How is it he has made the All-NBA defensive team nine out of 10 years?
Nappyone Said,
June 24, 2007 @ 1:28 am
Yeah. Who just said he was slow? You need to watch a basketball game for once. Versatilty will never ever be better than dominance. There both unselfish. They both can score. Shaq doesnt need to develop anything outside of 5 feet. Why would he? He dominates period point blank. I dont think anyone could win during the Jordan/Olajuwan era. So shhhhhhh. Duncan can be slowed down easily in his prime. Shaq couldnt. 3 rings in a row and 4 final appearances is better than them being scattered. One more thing. Best all-around doesnt come close to most dominate. David Robinson was an all-around player as well. Couldnt hold Shaq’s jock strap.
anonymous Said,
June 24, 2007 @ 10:45 am
SHAQ: 2) calls a press conference whenever he does charity work or donations to promote his public image; PUBLICLY calls out the team owner with M-F BOMB EXPLETIVES with the intention to humiliate and pressure him to extend his underserved 30 MILLION A YEAR extension for another 3 years; the self proclaimed “MDE” sitting @ the end of the bench during waning moments of BIG playoff games because he cannot defend or make freethrows(pathetic).
DUNCAN: 2) like all authentic great players, does not call attention to themselves to inflate their true worth: shared the limelight with “THE ADMIRAL” without a smidgen of jelousy (see- PENNY, KB); consistently hits the 15ft BANKSHOT which in itself is a testament to his mastery of the game - impressive, for any NBA player, let alone for a big man.
Moe Said,
June 24, 2007 @ 1:06 pm
The answer is Shaq…with no hesitation.
Tim Duncan has to be the most boring NBA player I have ever watched in my entire life. I would rather watch an interview with Fabrizio Oberto in Spanish than to watch an interview with Duncan in English.
He banks his shot off the glass for gods sake! who does that!
If you want to look at statistics, fine, Duncan may be better than Shaq when it comes to FT%, but if it were up to me as a fan, I would rather watch one “Shaq attack” dunk, than to watch a million “off the backboard” game winners by Duncan.
Hammond Said,
June 25, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
Shaq is great, but the word “unstoppable” keeps coming up and that is simply not true. Jordan was more unstoppable because he did not have a single weakness that could be exploited on the basketball court. He could shoot from outside, he could post up, he could go left or right, etc.– no weakness on the offensive end, and totally fearless as a defender also.
Shaq had trouble defending Arvy Sabonis, who was 5 years and a couple of knee surgeries past his prime because Sabonis had an outside jump shot and was a great passer. One of Shaq’s weaknesses is his inability to defend away from the basket. No one could overcome his strength and bulk in the paint, but once you moved away or made him try to defend a high post pick and roll, he became vulnerable. In theory, the Lakers should have steamrolled a Kings team with Divac at center, but that was usually a very competitive rivalry.
The other obvious weakness is the free throw shooting. Some one on this blog said there’s no such thing as “hack-a-Duncan,” which is true, but that’s because even though free throws are Duncan’s greatest weakness, he is still far superior to Shaq in this catagory.
Shaq was swept by Hakeem, swept by a second year Duncan, and swept by the Baby Bulls this year. His greatness is undeniable, but he has been stopped more often than not. The only guy who can even begin to claim the unstoppable title is Bill Russell, who was stopped by opponents only 2 times in 13 tries over the course of his NBA career, and who doesn’t even have enough fingers on his hands to hold all of his rings. And, don’t forget, before Russell’s professional career even began, he won back to back NCAA titles and an Olympic Gold Medal. That, my friends, is “unstoppable.”
reveline Said,
June 25, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
i’ve been checking out this blog since it began, and after a week it is still going strong.
Hammond - you started the numbers game. So, I had to come back strong. You think I went a little overboard? lol Anyway, both are/were good at what they do/did. I have to admit that now it’s hard to watch Shaq place now, because time (and weight) has caught up with him. I’m a couple years older than Shaq, so I remember how quick and agile he was when he first came into the league. And, realistically as great as his numbers are and will be when he retires, they could have been even better if he had had a better work ethic. The young Shaq used to run the floor, rebound and block shots. Today’s Shaq only plays on the offensive end.
J Moussa Said,
June 25, 2007 @ 10:32 pm
Bajan, that was a really great evaluation.
“He cant even make 3 dribbles in a row”.
You should be a head coach!
Hammond Said,
June 26, 2007 @ 12:05 am
reveline– yeah, with basketball season over we’re reduced to debating hoops issues and throwing numbers at one another online!– a poor substitute for watching the greatest game in the world, don’t you think? It’s a good debate, and let’s be honest– if you’re a GM and you have a shot at landing anyone close to either one of these future hall of famers, you are ecstatic. Just wait for that really sad moment, when twenty years from now you’re in a bar watching a game and talking about how great the mighty Shaq was back in the day and some young punk looks you in the eye and says, “Who the hell is Shaq?” Then I’ll stand up and say, “he was Duncan’s toughest rival!” and the youngster will respond, “who the hell is Duncan?!”
Arizona Home Owner Insurance Said,
June 26, 2007 @ 11:38 pm
I’d take Shaq in his prime. Unstoppable. The ref’s gave him virtually every single call in the lane, even if the big guy simply ran over the poor slob trying to play honest defense.
reveline Said,
June 27, 2007 @ 8:40 am
Hammond - Ha! Ha! Ha!
I saw one of the funniest things ever last night. It was Shaq trying to get obese kids to lose weight. Isn’t that ironic? The biggest guy in the NBA who everybody has been calling fat for the past 5 years is going to help kids lose weight?
Shaq seems to love kids, but he’s not a weight lost guru.
Hammond Said,
June 27, 2007 @ 12:27 pm
Yeah– I saw that too reveline–
Shaq’s got an oversized belly and an oversized heart– a good guy for sure.
J Moussa Said,
June 28, 2007 @ 12:10 am
Garnett played with Ricky Pierce?
Imperial Moose Said,
July 10, 2007 @ 6:10 pm
Okay…
what swings it for me was watching the burnt out Shaq in the 2006 title series. The burnt out, defering to Wade Shaq. Who still, every time he stepped on the court, got double teamed. Hard. All of a sudden, there were jump shots galore for his teammates.
Now, Duncan is awesome, but I don’t know if he does that once he’s past his prime. Too early to tell. So at the moment, I still go with Shaq. You can call Wade the MVP of that series, but I say Shaq was the reason he could be so good. (Same goes for Tony Parker inthis last chip actually. So maybe Duncan will surpass.)
becca Said,
July 17, 2007 @ 2:26 pm
I think that people forget that Tim Duncan really isn’t a numbers kind of guy. He’s an unselfish player, who does the little things that help his team win. For example, he is great at making outlet passes, (they don’t show up on the stats but it frees his team for the open shots). Tim is also considered one of hte best at defending shots… In the sense that he will get players to change their shot, so that he doesn’t have to block them… All of these things about Duncan need to be considered.
I think that Shaq and Duncan are very different players.. However, I think that the difference is like comparing Wilt to Russell. Wilt was more dominant but Russell had more championships….And I think that Duncan will probably have more championships than Shaq will ever have.
Ronald Said,
July 19, 2007 @ 2:44 pm
Nicely said Becca.
Shaq does bring a “star quality” that Duncan doesn’t have nor does he want. They are simply different players and different people.
Joe Said,
August 1, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
Duncan is better, and it’s not even close. They may be even with 4 titles right now, but Duncan will have one or two more by the time he retires. He has faced harder competition than Shaq. In the 90’s Shaq proved that he can put up great numbers, but he couldn’t help his team win against great teams, led by guys like Jordan or Hakeem.
When Shaq won his first 3 titles, his toughest competition was a Kings team that didn’t play any defense whatsoever. It was a relatively easy time to win a championship. In the finals all he had to do was crush a pitiful Nets team. And for Shaq’s last title, yes he went through tougher teams, but he wasn’t even the one leading the team. Wade almost single-handedly beat Detroit and Dallas.
Even for Shaq’s first 3 titles, although he was dominant, he had Kobe to take over on offense when he needed the help. Duncan has never had a player like Kobe.
Duncan on the other hand has had incredibly hard roads to the title, every single year that they won it (except for maybe the 1999 season). Remember, the west is STACKED, yet Duncan consistantly leads his team past Dallas, Phoenix, and any othe team that gets in his path. Duncan has been his team’s anchor and MVP each of those years, on both offense and defense (Parker didn’t deserve the finals MVP this year). Duncan is much, much more valuable than Shaq.
PianoLinks Said,
September 7, 2007 @ 11:48 am
PianoLinks
[...] Megacool blog indeed. Thanks heaps for this! if anyone else has anything, it would be much appreciated.. Best Piano Links
Enjoy!