Shaq or Duncan?
Who is the best player of the last decade? I can only think of two players that merit the debate: Shaquile O’Neal and Tim Duncan. But who is better and why? Each player has their favorable traits, assets and abilities that make them stand out. Both are dominant and with Duncan’s championship this year each has four rings. The MVPs, the All Star selections, the individual accolades and the team success are all there for both players… So who’s the choice?
A few years ago Shaq would have been everybody’s answer. In the post-Jordan era, he has clearly been one of the league’s most colorful characters and personalities as well as one of the most dominant, if not the most dominant player in the league. His size and skill set is enormous. Shaq is in the Wilt Chamberlain and Moses Malone mold – straight power. There is no finesse about his game. He anchored the Lakers teams that won three championships. Everything was run through him and he could explode for 40 points and 20 rebounds whenever he put his mind to it. He won his fourth championship with the Heat in 2006, but clearly he played second fiddle to Dwyane Wade. His star is still bright, but it’s fading. The wear and tear to his massive frame is showing. Shaq can’t even make it through a season anymore. Can he win another title, or more likely is he through?
Tim Duncan on the other hand seems to still be in his prime, although his individual explosions never met the heights of Shaq’s. His steadiness year in and year out has matched it. Duncan is the silent assassin. The best power forward to ever play the game. He is more of a finesse player than Shaq. More Kareem to Shaq’s Wilt. More McHale to Shaq’s Malone. But is he better? Is he the more dominant player of the last decade?
Their supporting casts have to be looked at too and both have played with a multitude of prime-time players and superstars. Shaq with Kobe Bryant, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry and Wade and Duncan with David Robinson, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker. Could the 2007 Spurs beat the champion Heat from a year ago? I believe so. Could the 2007 Spurs beat the Shaq/Kobe Lakers? I’m not so sure about that, but probably.
So when it comes down to it, we have to look at the body of work. Shaq was more explosive and his star shined brighter for a shorter period of time, but Duncan’s steady burn keeps going and going and going. Can we see a fifth and sixth ring for Duncan? If the Big Three of the Spurs stay healthy, they obviously can accomplish that.
What about Shaq? I don’t think he will see another ring with the Heat, but can he attach himself to some other potential champion like Dallas? Who knows? But as it looks right now if we are talking about a player of the decade and that decade is the first of the third millenuim, I’d have to give the nod to Tim Duncan.
Jay Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 9:20 am
id say shaq over duncan just because of his overwhelming power, and the fact that when he sets his mind to it he can beat any defense without even breaking a sweat…
Mike Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 9:42 am
I would take Duncan because he is more consistent on the defensive end and a better free throw shooter.
Agee Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 9:46 am
Off course it’s shaq!! Yes Tim D, is still in his prime, but he entered the league 5 years after shaq. All the arguments is about that tim is a better player now, well he is much younger too! (more than 4 years)Where were shaq five years ago.. winning championships and was with out a doubt the most dominant player in the league. In 5 years from now Tim will propably be where shap is now, a good player, but not a great one anymore.
Shaq is the conseseus nr. 1, in the post jordan era!!!
john cruz Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 9:47 am
I don’t agree with you giving the nod to Tim Duncan. He came in the league where it’s Michael Jordan’s last the last two season of his career (still a prime Jordan). Shaq came to the league where Mike had just finish-off of the ‘92 Portland Trailblazer and the start of Bulls dynasty. 2007 Spurs Championship team can’t even win against the ‘92 Portland Trailblazer team in a 7-game series. The only year that I believe they really won the championship is in 2005 where they their opponent is a healthy Detroit Team. 1999 - no Patrick Ewing; 2003 - past the Lakers due to injury of key players; 2007 - young and inexperience Cavs just like ‘94 Magic being swept by a veteran and experienced Houston Rockets Team.
Shaq is Shaq. He swipe-off Duncan-Robinson tandem in his prime. Two giant against one. During their Lakers dynasty (1999-2003) Bryant still not the Bryant of today. Besides the supporting cast of Spurs (1999-2003) is even better than of the Lakers during their run. Shaq’s body already forbid him doing what his doing before on the court. He’s body is too old to his age. I believe its no about conditioning, its the fatigue that slows him down. Kevin Willis for instance, his body is always in condition but does can he do his old thing on the court when he reach the age of 33? David Robinson is always in great condition but why he is prone to injury and can’t do he’s thing on the court after reaching 30? He didn’t even a productive 10-year career.
Duncan might surpass the Championship ring of Shaq but still Shaq (though past his prime) is the player of the decade.
Rico Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:07 am
I say Duncan consistent member of all defensive team.his stats will show how dominat he is..he play both ends of the floor ..A very good team leader on the court and off the court..He inspired his teamates to play better and get the W.
Carlo Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:15 am
If you’re talking about consistency over an entire career, Duncan gets the advantage here. If you’re talking about who was more dominant at his apex in a span of 2 or 3 years, it’s Shaq hands down. In the end, I favor Duncan because of his overall consistency, his versatility, his defense, and his reputation as a great teammate.
Jeff Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:22 am
The lakers and spurs met 5 times in a 6 year span in the playoffs, with the lakers winning 3 of them, including 3 of 4 with phil jackson as coach. The title winning years of the lakers from 2000-2002 destroyed the spurs those years, winning 8 of 9 playoff games. I’ve gotta go with the diesel on that one.
xavier Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:34 am
This is ridiculous,
shaq is a far better player and would be drafted before duncan were they in the same lottery. His dominance is off the sharts, in fact the nba had to change the rules so that he wouldn’t overpower his opponents any more like he was. Tim Duncan is a great player, don’t get me wrong, but he shouldn’t be in the same class as shaq! TD fell in the best situation possible in sa where he could learn a lot from david robinson and didn’t have to be the number 1 option all the time. We also have to take into account the lack of quality big guys in this era. Had TD played in the early ’90s he wouldn’t be so succesful. Shaq is an entertainer, who was litterally unstoppable and still would be without the change of rules.
Zane from London Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:38 am
Right now, I would have to say Shaquille, because of his pure dominance in the paint. The Hack-A-Shaq theory was the only way to keep him from scoring at will.
He doesn’t quite have the all-around game that Duncan does, but his dominance in the paint was so overwhelming particularly in the Lakers era, you can’t overlook that.
It might be a little premature to make this decision however. Shaq may well be injured for the rest of his career, and Duncan has a great cast around his talents which may bring more rings. We’ll see.
space Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:44 am
since shaq has gotten older, heavier and less interested in the regular season people seem to have forgotten how much of a game changer he was. sure he was a brute but completely unstoppable. maybe the league should be saying thank you that he DID NOT hit his free throws. he went to the line sometimes 20 times and hit less than half. imagine 7 more points per game to his season and career average. WHOA! duncan is great, but more a strong piece of a team, shaq was THE BEAST. shaq could drop to 290 pounds and be the #1 center again for another 2-3 years [but sadly he won't]. shaq on almost ANY squad in the entire NBA during those years would have made them instant contenders. duncan? —no. i like his game a lot but for all his skills shaq won 3 straight. and more finals appearences then duncan has rings.
do this: go find an old shaq video [yes i said video] and press play. your jaw will drop. we forgot. we were all witnesses, we just forgot.
Jerry Maine Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:46 am
Duncan is probably the better player over their careers, but Shaq peaked higher, was utterly unstoppable during the early part of the decade.
Chris Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:49 am
I’d still take Olajuwon over both of them.
Matt Atwood Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:58 am
Shaq and its not even a quetion. Shag in his prime was a 28 PPG, 13 RPG guy. Duncan is a 23. 12 guy that would get dominated by Shaqs offense.
Lamont Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:07 am
This is tough. Duncan has that bank shot that he never misses, and sees the floor really well. Shaq is a great passer, has so much power, and can pretty much score whenever he wants.
It is close, but I am going to go with Shaq. It is very close though.
Shaun Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:09 am
Its Shaq, 1) He beat these spurs and tim duncan everytime when he was in the west 2) the lakers were a dynasty , the spurs have NEVER repeated as champions, Shaq and the lakers won 3 in a row and went to the finals 4 years in a row not 4 times in ten years…….booo NBA broadcasters trying to hype up the spurs hoping they can get some news over the summer
Cameron Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:10 am
Duncan for sure, he is more skilled and although Shaq is an underrated defender, Duncan is superior in that category as well.
Dervin Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:22 am
I’d go Shaq over Duncan as well.
In head to head playoff meetings is 3-2 favor of Shaq.
No back to back titles.
And Tim Duncan and the Spurs just seem to be missing something, they never really give you that perception of dominance. You don’t expect them to win the NBA title, but you aren’t shocked when they do. They are always one of the favorites, but they are never “THE Favorite.”
Chad Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:27 am
I would say Duncan as he was the more important cornerstone to his franchise. Could you ever foresee the day the Spurs run Duncan out of town to appease Parker? Also, Duncan is set to surpass Shaq’s championship total in the coming years and be an imprortant part of doing so, whereas Shaq has become more of a role player to Wade.
aaron Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:42 am
I would go shaq. What we take as steadiness for duncan is just that. I couldn’t see duncan averaging 30 plus points a night. No knock but he is at a high point 25ppg. Shaqs shelf life is different due to his girth so duncan will be able to last longer. However if we take into consideration that every team shaq has been on has at least went to the finals, shaq’s best has ran circles around duncan’s I have to go with shaq. Its akin to a guy averaging 18-20 pts for 15 years or a guy averaging 25 for 10. longevity is good but it doesn’t equate to better.
Ryan Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:42 am
I would take Duncan over Shaq, and I don’t think it is even close. Shaq was only good because of his brute stregth and athelitic ability, but he doesn’t possess much skill to his game. Duncan, on the other hand, is so fundamentaly sound. The only big man ever with close to as much fundamentals to his game is Olajowon. I really appreciate the way Duncan plays the game on both sides of the floor. A thinking man’s champion.
Wouter Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:45 am
What is it with all these “let’s compare Duncan to everything divine” since he won that last title? Let’s face it, had it not been for those Phoenix suspensions, or had Dallas gone to the Finals again, we wouldn’t be having these kind of dicussions. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE Duncan, I think he’s the best PF of all-time.. but the best player in the post-Jordan era clearly has been Shaq. I just think the media is just overdoing it the past few days. He’s gone from underappreciated to overappreciated in like 5 days.
faaf Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:47 am
Honestly it’s hard to choose. Just like you said, Seth: Shaq was more dominant for a shorter period of time, but when he was, he was absolutely unstoppable. Lakers team during 2000-2002 period with Shaq were completely and without a doubt the best team in the NBA of that time. But we can look at it from the other side: When it comes to winning…Duncan is probably better. He, just like you said, is more regular in it. And what’s more important he is and was a leader of a team he is/was playing. Parker got the MVP of The Finals, but without Duncan (who was some kind of a base from which Parker could jump for MVP) he wouldn’t get anything. I must confess that I’m a Laker fan, and I loved team with Shaq and those championships (now it is much harder, but it’s not a topic of this post), but still I would pick Duncan, because of his silent perfection and consistent high-level performances.
Dr.Hibbert Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:48 am
In a hypotetical draft with Duncan and Shaq, knowing that both of them would reach their full potential, I would pick Duncan.
I know that Shaq at his best is better than Tim…I think that “Shaq at his best” was the best bigmen ever…but it’s quite difficult to have “Shaq at his best”; you have to put him in the perfect situation (coach and complementary players), keep him motivated (not so easy over a long period of time), and hope he takes care of himself well enough to stay healthy (weight…).
With Duncan everything would be easier: you can build different teams around him (1999 Spurs were different from 2003 Spurs and different from 2005/2007 Spurs), and you have to worry less about his motivation level.
In the 10 years after the draft I would probably lose in those 2-3 seasons in which Shaq would just destroy everything in his path…but I would be more successful throughout the decade.
Joe Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:52 am
and the fact that you can pretty much put any 4 players on the court with Shaq and they would be much more succesful than playing with TD. holla
Joaquin Valent Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:07 pm
Duncan is better player and a team player.
Duncan is the San Antonio Spurs.
So I says, I Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
Shaq. And I’m not sure it’s close. Forget the rings, because that argument is unfair to so many greats that never won a championship. they both have 4, yes. Forget the brighter but shorter trope…because Shaq was really, really good before Kobe arrived. And I think the Lakers during the 3-peat would have beaten any champion Spurs team at least 60-70% of the time in a 7 game series. Anyway, whatever. You think what you want. What does Michelle think?
MTL Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
It has to be Shaq hands down. U can find another Tim Duncan, i believe KG has it all except for the rings. Chris Bosh has the potential, Jermaine O”Neal could’ve been. But to find another Shaq…
Matt Sans Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:25 pm
I got a lotta respect for both there games but i gotta go with shaq because if it wasnt for all the stupid drama he would still be in L.A. collecting rings with kobe. And even thow im a laker fan if d wade gets back healthy the heat can make another run. And look at all the times the spurs and lakers played when shaq was out west they were always wars but the lakers usually won them. And they are both gettin older so there success is dependent on there star teamates aka Dwyane Wade and Tony Parker
mike johnson Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
I think duncan is top 5 best palyer of all time
Doublequad Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:52 pm
Shaq is clearly the more dominent player. “Experts and basketball “pundents” all say Ducan is the greatest PF ever. Well i’ll submit that Duncan isn’t even a PF…he’s a CENTER! The reason he plays PF is that (1) when he was drafted, SA allready had a HOF center in David Robinson. And (2) the last thing SA wanted was a young Duncan getting killed by a younger Shaq in the west. Interestingly enough Duncan NEVER guarded Shaq at any time. But Shaq consistantly guarded Duncon and held his own. The ONLY Center Shaq had a problem guarding (and he openly admits to this) Was H. Olajuwon
LBJ Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
I have to go with Shaq too! I mean if they were the same age it’s a clear choice for me. Shaq changes the game at both ends so much. Duncan does have the type of game that will allow him to be an effective scorer for a longer period though. Tim never had great running or leaping ability so he developed the skills to play without it.
Noah Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
Duncan has been around for 10 great years, and arguably been the best player in the NBA for about the past 7 of them. Shaq had 12 great years (i.e., every year before the past 2) and was arguably the best player in the league for each of those except the first. And Shaq one one ring post-his prime. So, I think it’s hard to argue that Duncan kept it up for longer, at least to this point. I think he will reach that accomplishment over the next few years. Duncan wins for star brightness and longevity.
The only real argument for Duncan being better than Shaq thus far is that, no offense to Tony Parker, Kobe Bryant is by far the best player either of them has played with. Replace Tony Parker with a slightly above average PG, do the Spurs still win championships? Maybe. Replace Kobe (or D-Wade) with a slightly above average wing guard, do the Lakers (or Heat)? No chance. Then again, the Spurs have more good players and better defenders than the Lakers or Heat did.
My conclusion: to this point, Shaq has hands down had the better career. Duncan will likely pass him soon. Of course, if you discount the 1990s (i.e., most of Shaq’s best years), as Ferranti has done, Duncan is better. But, I mean, if you compare Mike James (or anybody) to Oscar Robertson based on what they’ve done in the 2000s, well, Mike James wins. But that obviously doesn’t mean anything.
Noah Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
I meant: Shaq wins for star brightness and longevity!
JR Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
I’d give it to Shaq as San Antonio has been blessed with some quality talent as role players over the years such as Udrih, Finley, Barry, Van Exel, Horry… not to mention Duncan had Robinson to guide him in the early years. I think the Lakers 3-peat was built similar to the Bulls where you have the 2 stars and then not much else.
Besides, have you ever heard of Hack-A-Duncan?
beltu Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
no doubt, it’s duncan. all around player. He’s been a consistent member of the All Defensive and Mythical team.
duncan > basketball player than shaq
shaq > star than duncan
Darkwaters Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 1:32 pm
Shaq and Duncan have both had amazing careers. Both players have been All-Stars every year they’ve been in the league and have lead their teams to 4 titles (albeit, Shaq didn’t really LEAD in the last one, that was Wade). But both have been great players.
Offensively, Duncan is a very good player, but Shaq is downright dominant. The guy was able to do anything he wanted down low and made teams around the league rethink who would play in the post for them. Hence, offensively speaking: Shaq > Duncan
On defense, however, Duncan clearly is the better player. Not only do the Spurs play better team defense than any of Shaq’s teams ever did, but Duncan is the heart of that entire effort. Let me put it this way, Duncan has been all defensive first team 10 times. Shaq has never once in his career even made the All-Defensive 3rd team. Duncan > Shaq in terms of defense (and its not even close).
The final issue to consider is intangibles. Both players have been leaders for their team (as indicated by their handful of rings) but Duncan clearly has been the better teammate. Shaq has consistently took half-seasons off because of being perennially overweight and out of shape. Duncan, on the other hand, is always ready to play and never complains or tears his team apart (see the 2002/2003 Lakers). Duncan > Shaq
All and all, both players are amazing. But it is obvious that Duncan is the better player. Duncan is a very good offensive player while Shaq is downright dominant. But Duncan’s game is far more complete and his effort and team mentality unbalance the scale. I’d rather have the guy that plays both ends of the floor than a constantly out of shape, feuding ego like Shaq.
Sam Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
I think Tim is better. Shaq played in big city and he has more media coverage and people like him but Tim is more fundamental and pure basketball.
kd Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
I with SHAQ, see wat people forget is three straight championships that is hard to do. UR team is th e hunted evry night, Duncan has never repeated at all. The Spurs werent even the best team from 1999-2003. HOw r they a dynasty. Shaq swpt them then came and beat them n five. The SPurs only beat them because shaq didnt get his surgery early.
NOw back to lecture at hand DUncan has been consistent but has he really been dominant or SHAQ dominant. Im with SHAQ he took three franchises to the finals. He has been to six finals that is remarkable. The spurs have been good i dont know great they get players to buy into the system . BUt if i taking somebody IM going Shaq.
If the spurs r a dynasty why r people questioning them, i never here no one question jordans bulls, bill russells celtics, magics lakers, george mikan lakers, and larry birds celtics. THat makes me scracth my head and hmmm.
Jay Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
hey eddie, havin a little change of heart big guy..think of it this way.. both players in their prime, you take the most dominant player ever in Shaq, or the little crybaby in duncan..not even close..
Scott F Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
Shaq was more dominant cause his size and strength.I”ll give you that.But if you look at the overall picture Tim Duncan beats him just look at everything . Shaq has the scoring average by far but tim has rebounds,more double doubles, assists average,more first team all defense,more first team all nba and plays less minutes throughout his career just in 10year span. Than Shaq 10year span. Stats don’t lie! I just want to bring up Shaq had Kobe and Tim had D. Robinson,Manu,and Tony P. D.Robinson was at the end of his career for the 2003 championship. T.Parker was rookie and a no/show in the playoffs.Manu is one that stepped up. Kobe is a hall of famer right now if he retired. Can you say that about Tony.p and Manu right now or even ever when their careers are over? And who puts ego aside for the team? Tim hands down one franchise and Shaq couldn’t get along with penny hardaway and kobe.
Mike Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 3:04 pm
Tim Duncan has done more with less talent until recently. Shaq won championships with former stars turned role players Ron Harper, Rick Fox, Glen Rice, Eddie Jones, Antoine Walker, Alonzo Mourning, Gary Payton and others. Thats not even mentioning playing with the best perimeter players of the league in Kobe and D-Wade. Former all stars Tim Duncan has won championships with include David Robinson, Michael Finley, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili. Shaq has always been a star surrounded by stars even head coach Phil Jackson. Tim Duncan has won with more anonymous teams and has repeatedly destroyed Shaquille O’Neal in the playoffs. Tim has always been the better player and anyone that would choose Shaq ahead of him must already have a team of stars and is not interested in being competitive for a long period of time.
oatmeal Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 3:26 pm
The media has managed to come up with a rather convenient way to compare these two legends in the game and in my view in a way intended to benefit Duncan. The “post Jordan era” coincides with Tim’s career as his first year (98) was MJs last, whereas Shaq was dominating since his rookie year making the Finals and All NBA over a period that cannot count under the post Jordan view.
If you compare entire careers…..Shaq wins. If you compare peaks - Shaq in 2000 and Duncan in 2003 (imho)Shaq wins. If you compare their 1st 10 years in the league Shaq wins (even though Tim would have 1 more ring). If use Shaq’s best 10 years and Duncan’s 10 best….Shaq wins.
To date over the past 30 years only Shaq and MJ have had the mental effect of crippling teams before a minute of a game was even played (and that is not to say that Shaq is in the MJ, Magic or Bird class)but dominance (physical and mental) Shaq wins here too.
If you compare overall impact on the game….Shaq wins.
Oh and: Mutombo, David Robinson, Mourning……all “big men” who don’t have as many All Defense selections as Timmy….but of course…he was a “power forward” while they were competing against each other AT CENTER.
This is an internet blog….poll the coaches and GMs of the past decade or those who have coached or ran teams during both careers and I guarantee you it would not be close.
oatmeal Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 3:35 pm
Mike: Its quite interesting that no one else saw Duncan “repeatedly destroying” Shaq in the playoffs since they played 5 times with Shaq winning 3 going against 2 7 footers in Duncan and Robinson. And since you are mentioning former “stars” like Rick Fox, don’t you think that world beaters like Sean Elliott, Mario Ellie and Avery Johnson should be mentioned too?
xavier Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
Hey Mike, that’s BS! The spurs are the best team when you look at how it is structured: you have 1 superstar (TD), 2 stars (TP and manu) and all the other players are role players who are the best in what they do: defense(bruce), 3point(brent barry, finley and cheap shot rob), big guy who doesn’t create anything(oberto), … The front office of sa is by far the best in the nba in assembling all the pieces and pop is one of the best to make them play organised TEAM bball. What happened with shaq is a lot of players wanted to play in his team but had to change the way they played(jones, walker, payton) in a matter that they weren’t necessarely the missing pieces but miami wasn’t gonna refuse them because they’re good. Guess what: that doesn’t work! And during the threepeat of the lakers who destroyed who?
Shaq is a supersuperstar that was way better in his prime and that’s all that matters. The only thing is shaq has some serious injury problems but don’t forget how poorly TD played last year with his foot. So when both healthy Shaq ’s the man!
David Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
Look at the stats everybody! Even with Shaq declining in the last two years he still has a career average of 25.9 PPG and 11.6 RPG with a field goal percentage of 58%. He also averages 2.4 blocks a game.
Now Duncan, averages 21.8 PPG 11.9 RPG, 2.4 Blocks per game with a field goal percentage of about 51%. So… looking purely at stats, Shaq was more dominant and Shaq was better! There intangibles are both great, but Shaq has been more dominant on points and field goal percentage and is just too big of a force to stop.
Shaq is clearly the winner by 4 full points a season.
Alan Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
I think the majority of commenters have it correct in choosing Shaq as the best player over the last decade. I remember watching Shaq at LSU, and his brute physicality overwhelmed the boys on the college level. This soon translated to the NBA, so much so that the league didn’t know how to officiate the man (and they really didn’t give him half the calls he deserved)! I never saw Wilt play, but from what I hear the likes of Shaq echoed the things I heard about him. Shaq is in another class of greatness. Maybe by the time Timmy retires I will change my tune, but for now Shaq’s last 10 have been better than Tim’s hands down.
And if Shaq wins another title that would lock him in for the ages for me.
Bryan D Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
Duncan without a doubt. Best skilled big man to ever play the game. And as for Ferranti’s comment on individual achievements….Timmy has more than Shaq! Not only has he been an MVP twice, but he has been named All NBA Teams(both regular and defense) every year since entering the league. Not only this, he has been a first Team allstar for every year of his career, a feat conqured by no other player today. Do your research next time please. Also In Shaq’s first three championships, he also had another superstar with him. And People forget his dominance is limited to 8 feet away from the basket (If that). Ducan all the way.
gmoney Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 4:26 pm
First lets take care of the jordan bs. The bulls never beat a team as good as shaqs lakers or duncans spurs in their chmpionship years! So we can stop the post jordan i luv Nike and Gatorade crap. These guys are both better than mj cause they are bigs. Shaq was an absolute monter for about 5-6 years and no one could handle him. Duncan has consistantly been great on both ends of the floor and anchors what is one of the great defenses of all time. Duncan is the better rebounder and defender while shaq simply had no one that could come close to checking him including Duncan. If Duncan can keep up his level of play he will pass shaq in career importance in a couple of years especially if he wins again.
Snakebite Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 4:31 pm
I cant believe this is even a conversation, I can name off the top of my head 10 players who had a similar affect on the game as Tim Duncan. Unfortunetly they wernt blessed with entering the league on a team with 1 of the 50 greatest players of all time, or a brilliant GM, and what i would assume to be great international scouting.
Shaq on the other hand was unguardable in his prime not by 1,2 or 3 players. He did have decent suporting casts in both miami and LA but how many of these players after leaving shaq -led teams went on to win anything>>>? Robert horry, and he road the coattales of more talented players
in closing shaqs a monster.. you cant make a comparison to a player of similar size and athletic ability
and as for duncan.. he is great but you can make arguements that players such as Karl Malone and Kevin Garnett are of equal Dominence.
Aaron Ray Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 4:31 pm
Shaq and Tim play two different positions but…Shaq of course is the more dominant player….offensively. When he set his mind to it he could block shots and grab 20 rebounds…but how often was that even in his prime. Shaq’s great I’m not taking anything away from him, but his defense at times was suspect. Had he stayed with the Lakers, they would have one 3 more championships after their loss to the Detroit Pistons. Tim Duncan can be considered one of the greatest forwards of all time. Many won’t agree because he’s fundamental over flashy, but for the amount of minutes he plays, he is one of the most efficient players of all time. Every year his minutes pg decrease and his production stays the same. He’s not a go to player…I take that back, he chooses not to play like a go to player, but when needed, he can pretty much score at will, if his free throw shooting hadn’t dropped of, then he would have probably averaged 4 or 5 more points a game in the past few seasons. Tim Duncan is consistently on first team all nba and first team all defense…..who else can say that??? Kobe Bryant….T-Mac is another possibility but he’s been injured lately so he’s over looked. So for those who say that Shaq didn’t lead the way to the finals with the Heat and that it was Wade….in no way would the Heat have been there without Shaq…he doesn’t have to be the dominant player that he was to win, he let Wade do it. Also one player can do it alone, as we saw this year with the Heat with Wade being injured. Oh and Jay smartin up, Eddie didn’t write this Blog….Seth Ferranti did…..know your facts.
andrew Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
two points hinger this shaq duncan argument. one is that shaq is a solid 6 or so years older than duncan and really is from a different era. this means the question is flawed. who is the greatest post-jordan era player? shaq played half of his career in the jordan era, so the question inherently favors the younger duncan.
second, part of your pro-duncan argument is that he could very well end up winning up to 5 or 6 rings. that is pure speculation. although it sounds reasonable considering they are a relative dynasty, just a season ago people we murmuring that perhaps the 31 year old duncan has passed the peak of his prime with a subpar showing in 2006, only to bounce back in 07. what if he gets content again and has a subpar 2008 and 2009. now you are talking about 33 and 34 year old tim duncan who just isn’t the same tim duncan anymore. duncan winning 1 or 2 or 3 more titles is pure speculation of course and can’t be taken into account. speculation aside, shaq wins the argument of shaq v. duncan.
Hooty B Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
You have to be a moron to think that duncan has had a better career…
Best season comparison:
Shaq:
Pts-29.7
reb-13.6
ass-3.8
blk-3
shooting 57.4% from the field (dont need to be a good free throw shooter)
lets not forget what he has done in the playoffs (look at the Stats)
Duncan:
pts-25.5
reb-12.7
ass-3.7
blk-2.5
shooting 50.8% from the field
sure duncan hasnt gone up and down, but Duncan’s “up” is not even close to what shaq is and duncan still cant stop shaq’s “down”
scott Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 5:10 pm
Shaq in his prime is better than Duncan in his prime. Don’t let the twilight of Shaq’s career be the lasting impression. This isn’t to say that Shaq’s game is more complete than Duncan’s, it isn’t. But, why does it have to be? Shaq could pound it down low whenever he wanted and get an easy bucket or draw double and triple teams and set up teammates. Duncan has more weapons than Shaq on offense but it doesn’t matter. Shaq could score whenever he wanted to. Shaq>Duncan.
Daris Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
Shaq is the best big of all time. We shouldn’t even be having this debate. http://logan-logsblog.blogspot.com/
jay Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
I’d take Shaq. You can’t use championships because for the 1st half of Shaqs career, he was playing during the Jordan era. Duncan didn’t have to go through that.
Gary Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
if we are talking of the decade, it means the last 10 years, right?
so for the last 10 years we have seen one of them in 8 of the last 10 champions, so that shows their status as mega-superstars…
but… Shaq is 5 or 6 years older than timmy, that means his time to shine as a leader has passed away(just look at he ‘06 Heat), but Duncan is at his prime…
taking into consideration how good Shaq was when he was 30, there’s no doubt Shaq wins this argument… although i has never been a fan os the great Shaquille O’Neal
Mike Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
Let say this from an owner point of view. Who you want on your team? Shaq or TD?
Obviously both Shaq and TD has the potential to win 5 or 6 championship with a good supporting cast. (Shaq 4 out of 6 in winning championship and TD 4 for 4 so far) but with Shaq a victory is also a victory in business where everyone just wants to see Shaq pulls the rim down. And with TD, you get the lowest NBA Final viewing ratings in history (Spurs vs Cavs, Nets, and Pistons all lowest rating).
Therefore Shaq is my man. Not because I am saying he is a better ball player than Duncan. I am saying he is much more dominant over Duncan in all other aspects.
Jeremy Martin Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 7:17 pm
I’d take Shaq 8 days of the week over Duncan. In Shaq’s prime he could have been placed on any NBA team and made them a legit Title contender.
If you could pick any player in NBA history to start your franchise with you could make an arguement for Shaq. I don’t know if Duncan would be in the top 10.
Peter A Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 7:31 pm
First off let me say, i hate everything about Tim Duncan and the Spurs. But i do agree that he is the best power forward ever. But to the question, if i had to pick a player when they were at their absolute best, i would pick shaq hands down. But when it came to building a franchise around, i would pick Timmy D. Shaqs game is gonna break him down and whether it’s this year or next, he will not be effective. Tims game is going to last him a lot longer. Shaq relied on dunks, tim relies on gay little hooks and short jumpers. With age you lose hops, but you never lose your touch.
dg Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
dont forget shaq taking orlando to the finals. SHAQ!!! in his prime vs Duncan in his prime all day.
Miles Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 8:17 pm
The question was who was more dominant in their prime. The answer has to be Shaq. In his prime running for championships he was more unstoppable. Averaging close to 30ppg-15rpg, also for the guy who said he played no defense, he’s been on three-all defensive(2nd to be fair) teams.
Who would I rather have? That would be Tim Duncan. He is less than a diva, less pricey, guaranteed to come to camp ready, doesn’t put off surgery to the last minute, and easy to manage in general. Sure he whines on the court but it can be over-looked.
Also comparing Jordan to these guys is illogical, he is somewhat over-rated and needed more help. He is a product of hype established by Nike & Gatorade. He needed a fellow superstar(Scottie Pippen), and another all-star(Grant-for 1st dynasty, Rodman- 2nd). Also his 2nd dynasty was not impressive, in a weak era caused by over-expansion and before the increasing of talent thanks to international players. To me Shaq could do more with less, pair him with one Superstar(Kobe, Wade), and that’s usually all you needed when he was younger. Glen Rice?! Are you kidding me, was not that third star made out to be in this blog, he was a former star reduced to a role player.
I could go more in depth, and in fact I will when it comes to de-structuring Jordan in a article, easily top 10, but not GOAT. Based on accolades, it seems GOAT but trust me on this one. Well like I said Shaq=better than TD, but rather have TD due to easier to handle.
paHwLhowBhoy Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
Oh man, it’s obviously Shaq!… Duncan is great, but Shaq is greater…
The most dominant in this post-Jordan era… Shaq takes a ton of beating every game he plays, but still manage to came up winning 4 championship..
But now, the more dominant is Duncan… Shaq’s prime is over and we gonna miss it… And Duncan’s dominance, we will see it next playoffs… not this coming season.. you feel me..
Hooty B Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:32 pm
About Tim Duncan being the best Power Forward of all time… hahahahahahahahahahahahaha… I can keep going… hahahahahahahahahaahah…
Hes not even the best PF playing right now. Kevin Garnett (his team sucks) is better than duncan not by much but he is better all the way accross the board. Oh and lets not forget about a guy named Karl Malone (played when jordan was taking all the rings), man people have short memories. Titles are great but that doesnt mean you can call robert horry the best (an exaggerated example)…
malones best year
29 pts
12 rebs
3.5 asst
and he had a “FEW” year close to that
Hooty B Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:39 pm
hahhahahah ask duncan who he thinks is better…
James R Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 10:52 pm
Shaq is the ultimate 7 footer. By saying this, I mean he can’t hit a shot beyond 7 feet, not that he’s a great 7 foot tall center. Tim Duncan is a much better player because he can shoot the bank shot and does better at the free throw line. Shaq only scored a lot of points because he was big and took easy shots.
Richard Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:07 pm
Most people in my estimation would probably pick Shaq and I have absolutely no problem with that, I’d consider it myself but in retrospect if I could put Tim on the Orlando Magic back when Penny, Nick & Horace were there, I’d take Tim over Shaq simply because I personally believe Tim would have been a better fit and that team could have really won a title. That being said they still were considered the new team of the future.
You jsut can’t go wrong in choosing wither at your center spot. It’s a useless debate, they both dominated in the paint, just differently.
Kowtz Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:12 pm
Who’s the better player? talent wise? SHAQ….
Team wise? SHAQ….
But who’s the wiser? TD!!!!!!!!
TD went champs on odd years… 99, 02, 05, 07…. wait, what happened with 01?
Oh yeah, shaq was busy doing his thing…
peace… ;D
amcdo12 Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
shaq hands down shaq changed the game enough said
they had to create a new strategy for him hack a shaq
Rashidi Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:48 pm
1. Malone had Stockton feeding him the ball.
2. Malone NEVER impacted the game on defense anywhere close to the way Duncan does.
3. Malone never won a championship. The biggest reason is the previous one.
anil Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:50 pm
Duncan over Shaq anyday .. Unlike Shaq , Duncan stayed in a team and took it to heights .. His numbers r down when compared to Shaq cos he always tried to make those around him better .. Guys like Tony and Manu and even Bruce Bowen and Fab Oberto scores a lot of points these days and Timmy is the reason for that .. Duncan is a much better defender .. No Doubt Shaq is a beast and one heck of a player but Duncan is the best ..
And yes .. Duncan is the greatest power forward to ever play the game .. It came from Charles Barkleys and Jerry Sloans mouth ..
Rashidi Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:52 pm
“speculation aside, shaq wins the argument of shaq v. duncan.”
Duncan is YOUNGER and has accomplished more than Shaq has. This means that when Shaq was the same age Duncan is now, Duncan STILL had accomplished more.
Speculation aside? Look, Tim Duncan isn’t going to transform into a scrub overnight. The Spurs may not be absolute locks to win a championship in the next five years (who else would you bet on to win at least one title over the next five years though?), but it’s incredibly likely. It’s incredibly likely Duncan continues doing what he’s been doing his whole career. This isn’t speculation - it’s common sense.
Shaq was dominant mostly due to physical talents as well as moves that took advantage of those talents (most of which were illegal and now get him into foul trouble).
Duncan is a highly intelligent player who knows how to play the game of basketball. He is versatile on offense, affects the game on defense. More importantly, he is a great athlete who has proven himself capable of playing through lingering injuries. Barring some sort of catastrophic injury, he’ll age like an Olajuwon or Malone, playing at a high level into his thirties. Is this guaranteed? No. Is it common sense? Yes.
Shaq has missed 208 games in his career, mostly due to injuries. That’s an average of 13.8 per year (wonder why he only has 1 MVP?). Over the last 6 seasons he has missed an average of 20 games per year. His body is not holding up to the NBA grind, and it’s obvious his game will continue breaking down along with it.
Tim Duncan has missed 42 games in his whole career. Shaq missed that many this year alone.
It doesn’t help that Shaq never worked on an outside game. His free throw shooting has gone from bad to downright abyssmal. Even when you’re strong as an ox, scoring inside in the NBA requires more than strength; it requires quickness - the ability to go around the defense rather than plowing through every time. Shaq’s quickness has rapidly faded, and with no face up game, his offensive game is rather limited.
Duncan on the other hand, you might have noticed hit around half of his mid-range shots in the NBA Finals. That’s a weapon he’ll carry with him as he ages, like Malone did, like Hakeem did, like Barkley, Horace Grant, Cliff Robinson, Eddie Johnson, Steve Kerr, Reggie Miller, John Stockton, Michael Jordan, and any other player running around in their old age - they all can shoot. When he can no longer rise above defenders. Players who got by on mostly physical talents?
As Shaq has aged, his defense has gone from “average depending on who you ask” to poor. Aside from the occasional shotblock and being immovable in the post, he is just abused by the growing number of quicker versatile centers. He is slow out there and offers even less help defense than he did in his prime, also he’s a bit foul prone with the new rules. His rebound range is not good, and without a great rebounding teammate he gets abused on the defensive glass. There is a reason Zo looks so great out there when he comes in for Shaq. He brings energy and intimidation that is not simply present when Shaq is in the game. He isn’t content getting beat on the defensive end. When Shaq was capable of outscoring his man every night, this wasn’t a problem.
And it won’t ever be for Duncan. If it weren’t for a guy named Ben Wallace, Duncan would have multiple defensive player of the year awards in addition to those MVPs, rings, all-nba first team selections, etc.
Dracul Said,
June 18, 2007 @ 11:55 pm
If we took Tim, in his absolute prime, duplicated him, and had BOTH Timmys try to guard Shaq in his absolute prime, Shaq would still go through them, foul or not.
So if we took Shaq, duplicated him, and put them on guarding Tim, would Tim go through the Shaqs?
Yeah, my point exactly. I’M PICKING SHAQ ALL THE WAY.
Eric Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 12:16 am
Well if shaq was so MONSTROUS how come he diddnt plough through the bulls weak interior during Jordan’s era????How did Olajuwon take him to school????How did he make the finals only once when the great centers ewing olajuwon were in their prime???Shaq’s dominance is exaggerated because his dominance came when Olajuwon,Ewing,Robinson were all on the decline.Dude he even had a hard time going through malone and Ostertaq………But I would say he is more dominant than Duncan, though not quite the unstoppable monster some have portrayed him to be.
the czar Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 12:54 am
for anyone that doesn’t believe that tim duncan is not the best power forward ever, i laugh at you and feel sorry for your stupidity when it comes to basketball. kg doesn’t even compare. it’s like comparing shawn marion to lebron james. stat machines don’t constitute greatness. and when it comes to “i can’t play a lick of defense” karl malone — let’s not even begin to think what tim could’ve done if he played with john stockton for his entire career.
now to the question at hand…
if i had to win a championship and i had the choice of either the diesel or the big fundamental, i would pick shaq any day of the week and twice on sunday. just answer me this. if you needed a basket? or a rebound? or a blocked shot? what is stopping a 300 lb. beast from getting you that? and let’s not go the free throw route because you would have to be a moron if you wanted either of them to shoot charity buckets in the waning minutes of a tied game. i know tim has had a hall of fame career and he rates in my top 5 for best big men of all-time(in case you wanted to know it goes kareem, bill russell, wilt, shaq, tim), but let’s get one thing clear, shaq is the most dominant force the association has ever come across. what mj did with skill– shaq does with sheer will.
Rashidi Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 12:57 am
“I’d take Shaq 8 days of the week over Duncan. In Shaq’s prime he could have been placed on any NBA team and made them a legit Title contender.”
Considering Shaq is a liability with the game on the line, this is not likely. He has mostly played for stacked teams. Orlando owes it’s NBA Finals appearance to REALLY good luck or the lottery being rigged (i.e. the drafting of Penny). Shaq was not going to take that group to the Finals by himself.
When he went to LA, they already had Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Elden Campbell, and had just drafted Kobe. This was not some bum team he signed with. They won 56 games when he joined the team - only 3 more than they won the previous year without him. Lest we not forget the Hall of Fame lineup that Lakers were strutting out his final year.
Shaq has played with three teammates better than anyone Duncan has ever played with - Kobe, Wade, and Penny. And yes, that includes Mr. Robinson who was only a shell of himself thanks to the injury that allowed Duncan to be drafted by the Spurs. Duncan’s top teammates include the fading Admiral, Parker, Ginobili, and Sean Elliott. These guys belong on a list with Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Glen Rice, and Elden Campbell, along with past prime stars Payton and Malone. Duncan has never played with another elite NBA talent. Shaq has played with three.
Bryan D Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 1:08 am
A couple of points higher on stats don’t mean a damn thing. Stats are the most deceiving measurements in basketball which is why Bowen has never won defensive player of the year (when he should have one three straight). People who use statistics to base their opinion on basketball are taking the easy way out and are not basketball purists. To even put Malone and Garnett in the same breath as Timmy is ludacris. Malone and Garnett have never anchored a defense like Duncan has regardless of how many blocks/rebounds they have. More importantly, Garnett and Malone aren’t proven winners, even with stockton or a deep ‘04 team. As far as people not watching the finals this year, they missed out on some great defensive basketball, an artform that “fans” of basketball never appreciate. And Timmy’s San Antonio Spurs are one of the best teams of all time, if not the best team to play the defensive end of the court.
In conclusion, in an all around basketball arsenal, Timmy has Shaq beat, making him the best big man to play the game since BIll Russell. This shouldnt even be an arguement. Anyone who thinks differently just doesn’t know basketball.
simon Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 3:44 am
Shaq over Timmy, despite being a great Spurs fan
Greetings from Milan, Italy
Nick Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 3:44 am
Hands down, Shaq is the most DOMINANT player. Duncan is to much of a team-player to be dominant, but in the long run, as stated in the article, his style is the one that wins more championships.
the czar Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 4:28 am
i love this cause it’s a matter of opinion. you either want an offensive juggernaut or a silent assassin. and you build teams around them that compliment their strengths and hide their weaknesses.
the only way you can really measure who had a better career will be by the amounts of rings they will retire with. i do think the spurs could repeat next year. but only if the wonderful world of free agency doesn’t create a stir. kobe could be traded or finally get some help. and what if lebron could get a legitimate 2nd option to take some of the pressure off. and imagine kg teaming up with steve nash. that’s malone-stockton revolutionized. nash is quicker than stockton and kg plays d.
if tim can do it next year. he sways my vote.
on a side note: i forgot to rate the dream just under wilt with shaq and tim tied at fifth. yes i’m that big of a dork.
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:14 am
john cruz Said, 1999 - no Patrick Ewing; 2003 - past the Lakers due to injury of key players;
How did Spurs reached to NBA finals in 1999? Swept Lakers(with Shaq) and swept Portland. So who cares the opponent in the finals, Spurs were awesome in that series.
Which key players of Lakers were injured in 2003? Shaq? Kobe? Horry? Fisher? No none of them. There were no injury in 2003 for Lakers.
Let’s count the Shaq’s victories:
Beat Indiana 4-2 by the helps of Glen Rice and Kobe.
Beat Phila 4-1. A nice victory against Mutombo
Beat New Jersey 4-0. Beat Sacramento the previous round by a miracle triple by Horry.
Beat Dallas 4-2 by the helps of Wade.
So what will you say?
Pepe Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:18 am
Hm Shaq or TD… I say Kobe, no question about that. Shaq benefits from his size, TD is very efficient but Kobe is the ultimate weapon, if we’re talking about the most dominant player in the post-MJ era. He is the most complete package there is, enough said.
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:31 am
Shaun you wrote that Shaq and the lakers won 3 in a row and went to the finals 4 years in a row not 4 times in ten years…….
Check your memory again and if you’re not Alzheimer you can remember thatLakers couldn’t reach finals after 3 peat. Spurs beat Lakers in 4th year.
After that Lakers regroup by Payton and Malone and beat Spurs by 0.4 seond shot of Fisher
Hey man PAYTON and MALONE.
Some are still saying Duncan has a better cast. Are you kidding me guys? Shaq always played with (at least) a superstar(Kobe, Wade) next of him. Between 2000-2002 Shaq were playing with Kobe, Horry, Harper. Duncan was playing with old Steve Smith and Robinson, rookie Parker and undrafted Bowen. Are you kidding guys? KIDDING? Who has a better cast in his whole life?
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:42 am
Hoooty B, don’t laugh too much. And don’t ask it to Duncan, because he wouldn’t accept he’s best. He’s hunmble, do you know what it is?
Ask to Malone who is better. He will tell you who is better, him or Duncan.
How can you compare both players, i really couldn’t understand. Your brian and logic is working a little different.
hoopgod Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 7:07 am
i agree w/ bryan d.
ask bill rusell who the better big man is. most people tend to sway toward shaq’s power and personality. but i don’t see shaq anchoring the D the way td has. it’s the same reason td is the greatest pf ever, and anybody who thinks otherwise doesn’t understand the game.
and for all the love shaw is getting, he couldn’t stay in shape, he was a main reason that the lakers blew up their team, and just 3 good years compared to TD’s 8? C’mon.
oatmeal Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 8:17 am
Let’s face it Shaq is a lightning rod and whereas he has his supporters he has an equal amount of persons that will just never “like to see” the physical nature of his game. But sometimes one has to give the devil his due. Shaq is the only player in the HISTORY of the NBA with 13 straight years of over 20 points and over 10 rebounds….the only one!!!!!!! So the idea that Tim has done ANYTHING for a longer period than Shaq is just bogus. Shaq went up against Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Mourning and Mutombo in the regular season for the first seven years of his career and made the All NBA team EVERY YEAR meaning he was considered among the top 3 bigs in the league out of that group….none of the others can say that. During the 90s only twice was Shaq eliminated by any of the big men and only Dream gets true credit because it took Duncan and the Admiral to do it in 99. So the “Shaq wasn’t dominant when the great centers played” argument is also bogus.Everyone wants to point to Kobe Wade and Penny………but what about Dennis Scott, Nick Anderson,Damon Jones, Udonis Haslem, Rick Fox, Bryan Shaw, Donald Royal….we saw all these guys play with and without Shaq….you tell me what they did the years without Shaq.
Like I said….I am a fan of Duncan’s greatness and his consistency but when considering the best I don’t think that its about “Who looks better/ smoother doing it”…..Shaq was the game changer, Shaq was the coach’s headache, Shaq was the one that there was no answer for. 04 and 05 the exact same Detroit team managed to slow down Tim and conceded that they had no answer for Shaq (and Shaq was already past his prime in 2004)……If Shaq was as “humble” as Timmy, this debate never gets started.
Mike Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 8:25 am
Tim Duncan is the man. Any body that knows basketball will take Duncan over Shaq. The thing that sets them a side is Duncan plays defense all the time and Shaq is very inconsistent with his defense. Shaq is a better offensive player but Duncan is a better all around player.
RedWhiteNBrown Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 8:45 am
OF COURSE Shaq is the better player. Not only is he the better player, but since the Michael Jordan era, Shaq is the BEST player. He is absolutely UNSTOPPABLE. Ducan is good, yet, he just doesnt have the energy to get a crowd going. His numbers are there, but Shaq’s numbers are better and his actions on the court gets the crowd going. Thats what great players do, they get their teammates and fans involved. Shaq is a GREAT player. And only an idiot would even consider that SHAQ and Duncan are in the same category. Shaq is THE BEST big man to ever play the game.
E.J. Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 8:50 am
Although i’m an avid Spurs fan..i have to go as of today with Shaq…but Timmy has 4-5 more good years on him so lets see.
Bill P Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 9:10 am
Shaq in his prime is more dominant than Duncan in his. And Shaq makes other guys better, and doesn’t get enough credit for his passing. The real difference is Popovich, who has done a fantastic job at keeping a good group of guys around their star and coaching them to be winners. Even if the Kobe-Shaq pair stayed together, I am not sure the Lakers would have been able to maintain the supporting cast. Pop has done that over nine years. So take Shaq over Dunc, but Pop over Phil Jackson and Mitch Kupchak.
Tony from France Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 9:16 am
Hi guys, I would say SHAQ. He miss at least a 70% from the Free Throw line to overpass Duncan, but he’s so powerfull that even Duncan has to admitt that he will let a stronger image in the NBA history than himself.
Duncan is a great player of course but SHAQ is SHAQ. Once they will be retired, we will more remember about Shaq than Tim by the next 20 years.
Jeremy Martin Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 10:22 am
For those of you that say Malone wasn’t a defender are just flat out wrong. Just take a look at the playoffs in Malone’s LA run where 41 yr old Malone completely frustrated Duncan the entire series. I can’t even count the number of times Duncan would try facing up Malone and have the ball stripped out of his hands by Karl, not to mention Malone’s famous “pulling the chair” move.
Shaq is/was a player like we’ve never seen in NBA history. He was double-triple teamed and could still put up 35 and 20, while Duncan still has trouble with stronger defensive players (I.E. Kurt Thomas). While people suggest that Duncan plays with a bunch of scrubs I assume they forget Manu could score 28ppg for about any other team in the NBA and experts continually say that Parker is a top 5 point guard in the NBA and last but not least the best perimeter defender in the NBA Bruce Bowen. Not to mention they are probably the deepest team in the NBA.
Fact is if you replaced Ducan with Garnett the Spurs may not miss a beat. Shaq is just a player that you can’t duplicate.
rob Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 11:05 am
duncans career rebounding is slightly better, but shaq would have explosions where he would make it impossible for the other team to win, call that a tie. duncan is clearly better defensively, don’t even think about arguing that one he’s made defenseive first team every year of his career and holds the finals record for blocks, he’s a monster easily the best defensive player at his position ever, i can’t believe he doesn’t have a DPOY. now shaq though is arguably the greatest pure scorer ever, forgetting the should-be-illegal hack-a-shaq strategy, no defense could ever stop him remotely without fouling the crap out of him, but they did foul the crap out of him and he couldn’t hit free throws to save his life, whereas duncan was at least decent and scored almost as much as shaq. so whats left? duncan has more mvp’s, more first teams, has been healthier, hasn’t played with kobe and d-wade, and never caused issues or controversy on his team, kobe or not. so basically their playoff performance has been identical in production and success, but tims regualar season performance has been much more successful than shaqs (mvp’s injuries, wins, all postseason awards), even though he scored a little less. the final thing is that TD has a few great years left whereas shaq is a role player playing at all-star reserve level who can’t stay healthy, so in 3~ years, TD should be the unquestionable best post-jordan player
albo Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 11:12 am
Right now, I would say Tim Duncan, just because i dont think Shaq can carry a team by himself like Duncan can. But if you’re talking about 4-5 years ago then thats another story because there was not one player that you could say can stop Shaq one on one. But now for Duncan you got guys like KG and Bosh that can take him one on one without any defensive help. And Duncan has always had a better supporting cast than Shaq.
Zane from London Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 11:42 am
Pepe, please don’t put Kobe ahead of Shaq or Duncan. That’s nothing but an insult to both, and the game, considering the title of the post.
Kobe has done absolutely nothing without Shaq, except fill out his own stat book, line his own pockets, and put the Lakers in impossible situations. Shaq won a championship without Kobe, not the other way around.
Kobe may be remembered as the premadonna of the post-Jordan era, and the guy that made the Lakers a lottery team for half-a-dozen years.
Shaquille is the most dominant player over the last decade, hands down. Duncan might be the most consistent player of the last decade, but who’s going to remember that 20 years from now?
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
Jeremy Martin:
Malone’s defense against Duncan was so overrated in 2004 series. He didn’t much more than Horry did against Duncan the year before. Moreover Shaq defended Duncan in the most important parts of the game. Remember who was the defender when Duncan scores before Fisher’s 0.4 second miracle.
Plus, Duncan and Malone are faced many times before that year and Duncan is completely outplayed Malone in each time.(Except 1998)
Onur Tuncaboylu Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
Let’s check Malone’s excellent(!) defense against Duncan in 2004:
G1: Duncan: 30 pts(13-18FG) 11 rebs - Malone: 11 rebs 0 block
G2: Duncan: 24 pts(7-13FG) 7 rebs - Malone: 9 rebs 1 block
G3: Duncan: 10 pts (4-14FG) 13 rebs - Malone: 6 rebs 0 block
G4: Duncan: 19 pts (5-13FG) 10 rebs - Malone: 7 rebs 0 block
G5: Duncan: 21 pts (7-15FG) 21 rebs - Malone: 12 rebs 0 block
G6: Duncan: 20 pts (7-18FG) 11 rebs - Malone: 3 rebs 0 block
Vanlang Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 12:35 pm
I say tim duncan… aside from those two years shaq had (1999-2000 & 2000-2001) tim duncan has been a bigger presence. he makes his teammates around him better… parker and ginobili (not to take anything away from them) benefit from playing with a guy who knows how too pass out of the double team at the right time, thus giving them a chance to create of the dribble.
and the argument about michael jordan in his prime… yeah jordan’s team was awesome… but it wasn’t invincible… a good 1/5 or 1/4 combination could’ve beat them (this also furthers the argument that duncan is better than malone)… no one on those teams can guard the skills duncan has on both ends of the court (no one has the size)
i mean think about it, 2 seconds and the spurs could’ve been winners of 5 straight titles… .4 seconds left derek fihser drains a game winning shot changing the tide of the series (SA could’ve smoked DET) and last year manu’s dumb foul (again SA could’ve smoked MIA… DAL has no defender like Bruce Bowen)
Brandon Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
To the guy above me, No way the Spurs would have smoked Detroit in 2004. Look at the record books. Opponents held under 70 points record went from 3 games in one season to 11, including a streak of 5 in a row that only ended after New Jersey kept fouling to prevent becoming number 6…and then NJ acted like they accomplished something that game even though they still lost the game by 20 points.
But back to the issue, here is my question. If kobe gets traded to a contender and wins next year, will there be a Kobe, Shaq, or Tim debate?
There is no debate. Shaq wins. He made Penny, Kobe, & Wade.
Tim is not even #2. That spot belongs to Kobe.
Best team since Jordan–2004 Pistons!!!
Sergio Castañeda Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
My friends, I didnt like Shaq when he entered the league, he was cocky arrogant, and didnt care much about the team, he cared about commercials, stats, an endorsements, then by his third season he realized that basketball is all about winning, and when he realized it he was swept in the finals, in 95, swept by the bulls in 96, swept by the jazz in 97, almost swept by the jazz in 98, swept by the spurs in 99, and then phil jackson told him he had to be a TEAM player and then he (with a good supporting cast, Kobe, Rice, Fox, Horry and veterans Harper and Green) went on to win MVP honors (truly deserved) and 3 straight championships, But of course DUNCAN is a better TEAM player, he (like the great ones) won a championship in only his second season (lets not forget that the west is truly a wild conference) and then received harsh lessons from the Lakers, but then again like the great ones , stood up and became MVP, and mouch more important champions three more years, he doest (maybe he could do it) do the individual things that Shaq did, but he is the best team player since the days of Russell, and he won 11 championships, so my friends i think its a techincal tie in the individual part but for th e eam part is DUNCAN
Paul M Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 1:54 pm
Shaq: 25.5ppg, 12.1 rpg, 2.8apg, 0.6 spg, 2.2bpg, and 3.11to
Duncan: 23.8ppg, 12.5 rpg, 3.5apg, 0.7spg, 2.8bpg and 3.17 to
Shaq has had a more dominant span, AND more consisten over his career. Obviously his numbers are slipping now, but that’s because he’s old. The same will happen to Duncan too. Shaq’s numbers in his prime will always be better than TD’s. Although TD will probably end up with more rings, that’s not always the be-all, end-all of a players worth. Does this mean Horry is better than Duncan? Malone? Garnett? No. Shaq will always be considered better than Duncan, regardless of how many rings TD gets. Shaq had to try and get past Jordan’s Bulls for the first 5 or 6 years of his career and after that he started winning rings. Who knows if he could have gotten 2 or 3 more had the Jordan Bulls never existed. Duncan has not had to deal with dynasty teams in his way other than Shaq’s Lakers. That’s why the Spurs win every 2-3 years.
Sergio Castañeda Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 1:55 pm
Just one more thing to mr Bryan D, you really know basketball, this is not because we share oppinions about Bowen’s defense or team defense, but for your uderstanding of the game, Great comments
Shawn Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
I cant stand the Spurs, but I have to give the nod to Duncan. Shaq only plays half a season every year. Shaq shoots like 45% from the line. And Shaq doesnt play the kind of defense Tim does. He does play D, but not like Duncan. Shaq was dominant with LA for a few years. Now he is just overpaid…and Duncan will finish with 5 or 6 rings and Shaw will have 4.
Ross Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
I can’t believe people would think Duncan, Of course its Shaq hands down!! Shaq was a wrecking machine when he was drafted, duncan was great but you gotta remember one of those Championships the spurs have i dont consider it being a true title with the lockout on the 1st title. If you put Shaq in his prime on the spurs team he would have a lot more rings than 4!!! Duncan is a great consistent player but he plays power forward and Center is a hard position to fill. Shaq went up against monsters. Duncan is going up against undersized power forwards. Garnett his only threat and Amare Stoudamire in the west, being true power forwards. I am not taking anything away from Duncan but Shaq has the advantage on this debate!!! THE DIESEL!!
Hugh Morris Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
This is a no-brainer situation here. Like HONESTLY :S Shaq or Duncan? Its all about the Diesel baby. Shaq can single handedly take teams to finals and create superstars amongst his team, Duncan on the other hand, is a key player, he too can create superstars amongst his team, but he can never be in the same class as Shaq, its just impossible :S, screw this “its too close” to decide. If these two were put into the same draft pick, Shaq would clearly be picked first. Duncan can have all the rings…but he can’t cover the fact that Shaq’s the better player…inside AND outside the court (Officer Shaq? lol)
BlameBrianShaw Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
You young folks forget that only ONE team beat Michael Jordan’s Bulls in the playoffs during MJ’s prime–Shaq’s Orlando Magic. Yeah, MJ was barely ready, but they did do it.
Shaq brought three entirely different teams to the Finals and dominated both conferences. This one is easy. TD is a fine, fine player. But you’re looking too closely at this year. He sometimes stumbles. Even in 2005, when the Spurs beat the Pistons, did you see how many shots Timmy missed in Game 7? (A John Starks number: 17.) Shaq has over 5000 playoff points to Timmy’s 3200. At this point, it’s not close.
Carnell Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
I think the key word his is dominant. With that being said, you have to go with SHAQ. Until recent years this guy has been unguardable. He’s been to the Finals with 3 different teams, has four titles. I don’t think it’s even close. Duncan a great big man, has many accomplishments as well, but overall….you have to lean towards SHAQ!
Juan Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
Tim Duncan hands down! Shaq is lazy and has no heart. He missed a total of 1 and 1/2 seasons with the Lakers with “injuries” If he has any heart and will to win this would not be a conversation we would be talking about Shaq’s 8th straight ring, but he is heartless and if it wasn’t for Kobe and D-Wade he wouldn’t have a single ring. I’ll take a guy who WANTS to live up to his potential over an overhyped lazy walking minstrel show any day of the week. Shaq’s response? Uh I am da man and uh I think I am diesel uh it’s all about the jewelry uh pay me uh i only get hurt on company time uh me no want work.
LBJ Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 2:51 pm
Didn’t Malone come into the NBA in the 1985 Draft? While Duncan was drafted in 1997. Malone had a lot of miles on him by then so that really would be an unfair matchup. Karl was great at stripping the ball away while players had it low. He was never a big shot blocker.
Rudy Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 3:19 pm
Shaq no doubt. Why? He single handedly made the league change their rules. HE is the reason they are playing zone in the NBA now. Not because of Duncan. Even in this day and age with Shaq being up in years if you have to single cover him one on one he will still kill you for 20+ points. If you can wrap a triangle of defenders around him yes you can limit his effectiveness because he is just not quick enough anymore to move around them. Parker and Ginobli and Duncans supporting cast is way better balanced than any that the laker’s had during their run. The Spurs are a very solid team with great teamwork but one on one nobody was able to stop Shaq and David Stern was forced to change the rules to even up the sides. That can be argued.
Boston Weed Head Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 3:21 pm
You Guys Come On Now…..Shaq Is clearly the better Player post jordan era…Duncan May get more rings in his career an probably have Better Stats but Shaq Was a beast who could take a team to the finals all by himself…Duncan Isnt a bad player an i Like Duncan better than Shaq but i gotta be real here Its The Diesel….
Tim Adkins Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
This truly is Wilt v. Kareem.
And two things come to mind in dealing with this question:
1) What has been different about their contracts and the way they have pursued the business of the game?
2) In terms of pure dominance, who has done a better job of stamping his presence on the game?
To the first question, Duncan seems to be a smarter, more pragmatic businessman while Shaq seems to be driven by his own ego. That difference is the reason Duncan is still a Spur and Shaq is on his third team this career.
To the second question, never during Duncan’s career has an entire conference or an entire league spent its offseasons retooling simply so they could compete on semi-equal footing with him. He’s the quiet assasin for a reason and, to me, that implies that “dominant” is simply the wrong word to describe his accomplishments.
Further, I look at their head-to-head matchups circa 2000-2004. That’s really when they were on as equal footing as possible and Shaq’s teams owned Duncan’s teams. Individually, Phil Jackson made it a habit to have Shaq guard Duncan in the 4th quarter and that, in part, is why Shaq’s Lakers owned Duncan’s Spurs.
If I had the pick in this ficticious draft, I take Shaq everytime. I know that I run the risk of losing him should I fail to build a capable team around him. But I also know that he makes me a team that everyone else has to respond to immediately. Old or young. Healthy or not. He’s simply that dominant.
Mike Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
There really is no argument… it’s Duncan. Shaq has always had superior teams than Duncan.. i.e, Penny Hardway, Dennis Scott, Nick Anderson at Orlando, Koby Bryant, Fisher, Horry at L.A., D. Wade, A. Walker, Jason Williams, A. Mourning at Miami, but Duncan has done more in less time with less talent than Shaq. Shaq wasn’t even the best rebounder in his years in the league… ie D. Rodman, K. Garnett, D. Robinson, T. Duncan, H. Olajuwon, Mutombo … neither was he the best scoring center ever (Wilt, Hakeem, Moses Malone, Kareem were all better with more range in their game). Shaq is the biggest guy we have ever seen, but stats don’t lie… and he is far from the most dominate ever… in this era, and in antiquity.
Brian Boytono Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
This is a pointless debate. If you wanna talk dominant big man look no further than Bryant Big Country Reeves. This man had his prime stollen away from him, and had it not been for that clearly we could all see the grizzlies with atleast 7 or 8 titles. Could you imagine a Bryant Reeves Paul Gasol Hakim warrick Front line? Pure domination. I was talking to shaq after one of my figure Skating events and I said “shaq baby, who is the toughtest person for you to guard? Brian, he said there isnt a more dominant big in the league then Bryant Reeves. So as i have said with “nsider”information if it not for Bryant Reeves having his prime stolen from him, we would be debating whos the 2nd best post jordan era player.
EJ Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
Give me a break. Shaq can’t make a shot if its not within 10 feet of the basket. Just because he is able to bully his way to the basket does not make him a great basketball player. Tim Duncan is far more skilled on both ends of the floor no matter what stats say. TD plays the game the way it should be played.
wiZo Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
I hate Shaq….but it’s not even close. People now look at Duncan and say he’s better and that he’s the best PF of all time now. The phrase “out of sight, out of mind” is so true with many sports fans. Anyone that has followed basketball closely for the last decade knows HOW DOMINANT Shaq was. In fact, Duncan is very lucky to be playing with David Robinson (who was better defensively than Duncan)…because when Duncan actually had to matchup against Shaq on various possessions, Shaq would abuse him on BOTH ends of the floor. If D-Rob didn’t get injured then Duncan would be a CENTER on another team and have to matchup with Shaq more often.
Duncan is a great player no doubt, but its just obvious that Shaq in his prime was a far far far more dominant player.
Ray Moon Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
There are 2 differents situations here i think. If we talk about the Post Jordan era, i’d take Shaq, he’s been in the league a little longer than Duncan and he had to deal with some of the best centers in NBA history. Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing and now teammate Zo were his rivals for many years and at the end he dominated, and surpassed them all. Timmy just had a few good years of Karl Malone and KG, and lately Amaré,some could say Dirk too, but he’s allergic to the paint and is more a forward than a power-forward. So the competition isn’t equal. So, if we’re talking post Jordan, like i was saying, i pick Shaq, if we talk about 2000-2007, then yeah, i’ll pick Duncan.
Hooty B Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:02 pm
good point LBJ took the words right out of my mouth… as for you Onur Tuncaboylu you dumb turk. listen and listen carefully, Duncan has more skill i know that… and if shaq was 6 feet tall he would be in the nba but hes not hes 7′1 and he couldnt be stopped for the majority of his career… shoot he still cant be stopped becsause he is stopping himself (age). The time lakers lost to the spurs was because they were in shambles same with detroit, the team wasnt getting along and if you play ball you would understand that its hard to win when you dont like your teammates. i dont even know why people say duncan is a better defender, name played that have had shaq number (NOBODY) but shaq gives it to everybody. oh and i can name a few players that give it to duncan… kevin garnett, amare stoudemire, pau gasol, yao, dirk, zach randolf oh and carlos boozer… sure duncan has good games against them too but rarely players had good games against shaq. nobody has ever dunked on shaq… oh but hes not a good defender ahahhaahahahahaha and i will keep laughing dumbass turk.
Hooty B Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
you want to talk about the lucky shot fisher made… go ahead but if you were watching the game you would know that duncans fall to the ground 20 footer was pretty lucky too… so if you want to make those a wash, then lakers still win with kobes shot.
Hooty B Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:08 pm
oh i forgot about elton brand (he also gives it to duncan)
Hooty B Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:10 pm
garnett is better than duncan…
chris Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:30 pm
Has to be Shaq hands down, took a horrible orlando team his rookie year from a 20 win season to 41 and barely missed the playoffs in the eastern conference,that still had the boston with a very competitive led bird, mchale,parrish and lewis, indiana with, reggie, chuck person, detlef, rik smits in their prime, hornets team, with a young alonzo,grand mama, dell curry, nets with drago, “DC” and kenny anderson, the great knicks team, the “unbeatable bulls” and the up and coming heat with glen rics steve smith and rony seikly. He played the first half of his career, in the Jordan era, mix olajuwon’s superior rockets team, he played against competition, where there we’ren’t only quality big men but also dominat big men just check the list, olajuwon,robinson,ewing, 2nd teir,rik smits,rony seikly,vlade divac,kevin duckworth, kevin willis,alozo,and brad duaghterhy. Head-to-head in the playoffs its basically a wash, both swept each other once on their way to a championship. shaq has had an massive impact on evryteam he’s played for, turned the heat into an instant contender, not just on paper but in actual play, every power forward to play with him has all thier key statistical across the board increased, won a championships with, an 40 y.o. A.C. Green,ditto for Horace Grant And Samalki Walker as his starting power Forward in the west with the murders row P.F.’s in rasheed, Chris webber in his Prime, Duncan, at all times must be doubled team even when doubled teamed scores 40 pulls down 20.
Hooty B Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 6:39 pm
Onur Tuncaboylu dont down play Duncans supporting cast…
David Robinson - he was an ok player last time i checked (toward the end of his career but still very good)
Manu Ginobili - 6th man of the year but a legit starter and a pretty damn good one
Tony Parker - best penetrating point guard (and he finishes)
Bruce Bowen- yeah he was undrafted but who cares hes become the best defensive player… and kobe said it (the best offensive player)
you mentioned the lakers had a better supporting cast and added names like this had kobe, horry, and harper.
I’ll add a few more:
Derek Fisher (solid point guard)
Rick Fox (good)
Payton (old) should’nt have started over fisher, only did cuz of his name
Malone (old)
glen rice (wheel chair)
Mitch richmond (barely played)
JR rider (too busy getting faded)
nobody does it on his own and Duncan def. didnt do it on his own, and if you replace duncan with garnett on the wolves he would be in the same position garnett is in right now, and garnett would be in the same position duncans in.
lys Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 7:12 pm
You would think after watching the value of a 7-footer shooting J’s (Dirk N) folks would realize the obvious. You want & need the big man to dominant the paint! That’s how you shot 55+ % as Shaq has done in every NBA final he’s played in, thus forcing the double team. Oh, and for the haters he dominated Detroit in the Conference finals last year too. That’s why things were so open for D-Wade! Dallas made a clear decision to have the youngster proof it, instead of the letting Shaq be his usual dominating self! I love TD but Shaq made Dennis Scoot & Nick anderson look like budding all stars. Hell, he made Damon Jones look so good, Cleveland is stuck overpaying him!
Jason Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
I got to go with Duncan because he could change a franchise. Let’s face it, if that ref didn’t call that foul on Ginobli against the Mavericks, the Spurs would have beaten the Heat and Shaq would have three and Duncan with 5. The Spurs would have won in 2005, 2006, and 2007. Duncan also better defender.
Rashidi Said,
June 19, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
Glen Rice (wheel chair)
LMAO
Rice was still playing